A question on tuning and intonation.


If I tune each open strings to exactly match


EADGBE with 0 percent off (according to tuner) showing a perfect straight vertical line.


When fretting at the 12th fret, every string will be a bit sharper by 18/22 percent limits but still within the EADGBE note at one octave higher.


Fretting the last fret aka fret 21, esp the lower E, it's still within C# but about 40/50 percent higher on it's way to become a D.


Should I be concerned? Or as long as it's still within the C# limit, i should just ignore it.


I read online about intonation adjustment and I just try it on the lower E string, it seems there's no way you could ever get the open string, 12th fret to be 100 percent within the tuner's pin to point exactly at a straight line (no off by xx percentage)

If I want to balance it out, it seems I should not tune the open strings to exactly vertical, but let it be lower by 10/20 percent so that at higher frets the percentage will be lowered closer to the correct notes.

How do you tune your open strings ?

Exactly vertical bar on the tuner ? Or a bit lower, or a bit higher (risking notes at higher up the neck going out of tune)

there are several factors to consider when doing intonations.

- fretting strength : when checking intonation, fret the string as light as possible. a slight extra pressure will definitely make it a bit sharp.

- floyd-rose : this is not an unknown issue by many that FR system may have problem with higher fret intonation

- action : uneven action on the guitar may screw your intonation.

- fresh string : fresh strings are easier to intonate with


missing by a few percentage is acceptable since you probably won't notice the difference. missing by almost half of a flat/sharp is bad.

adjust it slowly. but remember to retune the guitar completely before each check-up.

add-on:

after reading your post again i realized something, did you do any adjustment? you have to adjust the bridge saddles to compensate your intonation. if the fretted note is flat, move the saddle forward. if it's sharp, move it backward.

This post has been edited by zeroglyph: Apr 19 2008, 02:03 AM

Yea I was playing with the saddle position back/forth. I didn't touch the action though.

The lower E string is E as mentioned by the tuner, but it's a bit sharper by 25-30 percent, and the last fret up the neck is C# which is sharp by almost 50 percent, so I moved the saddle away from the neck. Manage to get the best result , reduce to about 30 percent, unable to reduce more even after I move the saddle maximum furthest away, it still stuck at 30 percent for the last C# note, and the fretted note at 12th fret is sharper by 15/20 percent, no way to match the harmonic and open string note exactly.


I think my tuner is crap. Sabine nextune 12z sucks, even though it's a chromatic tuner.

Do i need a strob based tuner ?


Finally I just rely on my ear, and the relative notes I played all sound right at the highest frets used when I play a scale.

After I blocked the bridge again (strat vintage tremolo bridge) it became even more stable and the sharps went down about 5 percent more, closer to the 12th fret harmonics.

Still, all the notes are within the legal note ranges in the tuner, just that it is not a perfect pitch, but a bit off by 20-30 percent but still have not legally become the next ascending notes.

This post has been edited by bman: Apr 19 2008, 05:10 AM

adjust your intonation. its influenced when you
1. adjust saddles
2. adjust necks - may i know why are u risking your whole guitar doing this
3. adjust string height

if you've set your intonation before, its normal for it to go slightly off if you've been using your strings for many months.

another tip when tuning.
1. dont just press anywhere within the fret but press right behind the fret. that will give the best accuracy.
2. when tuning with a tuner, its better to pluck the chord with your thumb than with a pick as you dont want additional harmonics to confuse the tuner.

damn bman, you're really good. you can tell if a note is off by 5% by ear summore!

i use 5th fret harmonics to tune on a clip on tuner which is very accurate

This post has been edited by SweetTooth: Apr 19 2008, 01:49 PM

same with gigimanis here.

Tune the 5th fret on low E, then 5/7 harmonics with high gain except for the G/B strings, which is 4/5

If i went too fast, tell me to explain again

i turn my volume knob down when not playing, so i tune without turning on my guitar also since my tuner is vibration based

The world most accurate tuning music instrument object is the..



I do not know why is the 12th fret is inaccurate when you have your open string accurate, maybe it is because of your instrument? I think that the neck is not in the right position.

The 12th fret is accurate, still within the note area but these chromatic tuners tend to show how many percentage it is to the next note. Once you hit over 50 percent you're sliding into the next note.

are u using new strings? <---the most important question

Can you try tuning on another tuner? Just to rule out the possiblity of having an unstable tuner. Why don't ou bring it to a tech to check it out?

Analog sound is clearer than digital. Chromatic tuners are digital and it is not trustable about accurate perfection.

If you use another digital tuner, you will see -1% or +1% difference.

Well I guess this is one of the issues, I am using strings that are at least 3 weeks old and had their nickel plating stripped deliberately to get back the smooth feel so I could slide again.


I haven't tried any other tuners yet, I might try the one built into my zoom g1 and another one which I downloaded off the net (aptuner)

That is a tolerable difference. Try 20-30 percent.

just one clarification : yes, it is physically possible to intonate your strings at fret 0 and fret 12 at 100% precision. There is no reason why that wouldn't be possible.

Now, if 0 and 12 are perfect, other frets might be a little off. It means your frets position is faulty... or your neck is bent in a weird way.

And thanks EBP for all the great advices, I've never thought about all these details

I think anything over 10 cents will be obvious. Variation below 5 cents should be quite unnoticable, but that also depends on how good your ears are.

You should really get that guitar checked out by a tech.

Forgot to add, my strat's action is unusually high and it's now stringed with 10s and not 9s which it came stock with.

Then again, the low E, even after I moved the saddle all the way back, the 12 fretted note is still over 5 cent sharp.


Maybe it's time I set the action on this baby before I intonate it.

Oh well, wait until the next string change when I switch back to 9s.

Change new strings. Setup action/neck to ur liking. Check any wear on ur hardwares/nut. Tune up then intonate. Habis.

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Added on April 22, 2008, 3:23 pmOr easier just send to tech, no headache. If dowan send tech then cant complain headache. LoL..

This post has been edited by skindred: Apr 22 2008, 03:23 PM