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> AhKong.net - My first webosphere enemy, safeguard the justice? LMAO

vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 08:36 AM, updated 10y ago

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Thanks to you, you have just got my Entrecard account deleted, along with my 10K credits I have accumulated

I somehow had a hunch that you were the culprit for this incident.


QUOTE
Dear vkeong,

I told phirate @ www.phirate.com about your drop 300 cards in 5 seconds claim and he proceed to delete your account.

However, it is not my intention to get your account deleted.

Attached herewith is a reply I got from him after I requested him to not delete your account.

QUOTE
From: PhiRatE

For openly admitting he was abusing the security system? I'm not really inclined to restore his account, however if you contact him and get:


a) A commitment not to abuse the security system again
b) A precise summary of the method he was using to perform the abuse sent to me at richard@redspider.co.nz


I will restore his account with a warning.


Peace.

Regards,
Deimos Tel`Arin (DTA) @ ahkong.net



It is also very funny that the Entrecard owner would delete anyone's account without any concrete proof, besides that I claimed I *CAN* drop 300 cards in 5 seconds LMAO.

As for you, DTA @ Deimos @ AhKong @ Whatever Stupid Name with that stupid damn avatar, you have just made your very first LYN enemy. I know what you are trying to achieve, shoe-polishing phirate yeah? You think your blog is good? I tell you it's the most stupid blog I have ever seen in my life. The design is shit, the font is ugly and your smileys are annoying

To other LYN members, beware of this guy. I didn't do anything to him and yet he can stuck a knife at your back and openly admit to you he did it. And with Peace somemore, LMAO


===============

Update: Reply from Entrecard

Vkeong:
QUOTE
Do you even have concrete proof that I am abusing the system? Besides that I openly admitted that the system *CAN* be abused? I said I *CAN* drop 300 cards in 5 seconds, but as far as I am concerned, I still drop them manually in the evening from 6pm-12am after I come back from work while playing games online. I will switch from dropping to gaming from time to time. Again, have you seen any activity in my Entrecard account that I have dropped 300 cards in 5 seconds before?

It is funny that you proceeded to delete my account based on his claim alone.


Entrecard:
QUOTE
I saw you admit it openly on a forum. Our policy is simple, your word is good enough for us, if you say that you breached the security (and the word CAN implies that you have tested this) we're more than happy to accept that as sufficient proof and punish you for it.

You have two choices if you wish to remain a member, and you only have these choices because Ahkong requested that we not ban you outright as we would normally do.

You must either:
1. Provide us with the details of the method you utilized to subvertEntrecard security or
2. Post publically on the same forum thread with the following exact wording:
"I wish to apologize to my fellow Entrecard users for undermining their faith in the Entrecard system in order to boost my ego. I do not in fact have a method for automatically dropping cards rapidly. I also apologize to the Entrecard programmer, who is in fact awesome."

If you wish, you can post-fix that statement with "Entrecard made me say this to get my account back".

You must also provide me with a scan or digital photograph of a piece of paper, signed and dated by you, with the following wording:

"I commit henceforth never to abuse, or claim to abuse, the security systems of Entrecard."

You may write this with as much scorn as you like, crayon is optional.

Alternatively, you can tell me to get lost, and your account will remain deleted. you have 48 hours to complete the above tasks before this offer closes.

Regards,
Richard.



=============
Vkeong:
QUOTE

You can keep that account deleted, if I sign up using a new account. Will this be allowed?

And also, besides the claim i made in the forum

You also have to admit that you do not have the concrete proof or any log files to prove that I've abused the system. Yes or No

If yes, please show the proof thank you



Entrecard:
QUOTE
No, your site was banned at deletion. We do not differentiate between actual security abuse and claimed security abuse, for the obvious reason that both are damaging to the reputation of the credit, and therefore both have a negative effect on our users.

The options I provided are the only means by which you may continue to interact with Entrecard, either by restoring our reputation or by providing information that allows us to further protect our users.

Proof of abuse is not relevant to this discussion, we have a statement from you in a public forum. This is equivalent to shouting Fire in a crowded theatre, even if you did not light a fire, it is still an offence.

We will not restore your account without a clear and unambiguous retraction in the same forum you made the statement in, and a  commitment in writing from you that will not make any further claims or attempts.

You have 39 hours remaining.


This post has been edited by vkeong: Apr 17 2008, 06:06 PM
paco
post Apr 17 2008, 09:14 AM

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Some people is just like that, whatever you want to do on your blog, the promo method, the content, it's yourselves who should responsible, whatever on net, there's always grey area, which no absolute right and wrong, those people who think doing this is to "safeguard the justice", which makes me want to laugh cause there's zillions of blogger in the world, how many of them 100% follow the exact rules? Backstap on other people because of jealousy or want to stop poeple's blog from growthing is just stupid, in chinese we said this kind of action: 損人不利己, so leasson learned, never tell anyone what you capable of, those who not capable to do it themselves one will jealous and try to bring you down.

This post has been edited by paco: Apr 17 2008, 09:15 AM
vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 09:23 AM

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paco, it's really funny lah how this entrecard owner do things

I *CAN* claim that I have hacked LYN and can post 300 posts in 5 seconds. Do you think se7en will ban my account? Where's the proof first?

I *CAN* claim that I have hacked Maybank and can increase my balance by RM300 in 5 seconds. Will Maybank freeze my account? Again, where's the proof??
goldfries
post Apr 17 2008, 09:58 AM

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erm. i think the system would have a log.
wKkaY
post Apr 17 2008, 10:02 AM

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Suppose you didn't abuse the system as claimed. Then you'd be right to voice out your anger.

But suppose you did. Entrecard may log your card drops, and that's all the proof they need. And by boasting you're pretty much asking for it.

Whether you really did abuse the system is something only you (and potentially Entrecard) would know.
vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Apr 17 2008, 09:58 AM)
erm. i think the system would have a log.
*
Yeah, show me the log! In this case, the owner deleted my account based on this dude's claim alone LMAO

It is so obvious phirate has no proof that I abused Entrecard.. see what he said

A precise summary of the method he was using to perform the abuse sent to me at richard@redspider.co.nz

See? He doesn't know! LOL

This post has been edited by vkeong: Apr 17 2008, 10:04 AM
wKkaY
post Apr 17 2008, 10:07 AM

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Obvious, you say? Not good enough. Show me the proof. Yawn.
goldfries
post Apr 17 2008, 10:12 AM

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vkeong, as a developer myself, i can tell you that sometimes you JUST DON'T SEE the loophole in the system until someone found it and tells you.

even Facebook had loopholes for people to make money.

really la, if they know they would've fixed it. smile.gif anyway - is dropping 300 cards in 5 minutes breaching of Entrecard policy? DID they have such rules against # of drops per second?

I think that's your only defence - are you in breach of any? Is it wrong to drop 300 cards in 5 minutes?
vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 10:31 AM

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It's not against the rules. In fact, you can open all 300 websites in your browser, go take a bath, watch a show, or take a dump while they load

and return to drop your cards later, you don't even have to read their contents! and i have a lot of shortcuts to drop the cards LOL.

Anyway, my personal rant is over. I will deal with phirate personally and see what proof does he have on me. Thread close


*BTW I already closed this thread why you still can post one? tongue.gif
vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 06:08 PM

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Entrecard's response to me updated in first post

This is really LOL, they have no proof or any logs to show that I've abused the system

All they have is 2 posts in LYN and AhKong's report.. Congrats Ah Kong, you've successfully sabotaged me.

And also, asking me to post a statement about the awesomeness of Entrecard's programmer? LMAO!

Thanks but no thanks laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by vkeong: Apr 17 2008, 06:09 PM
phirate
post Apr 17 2008, 06:23 PM

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It is our standard policy to require either a public retraction or details of the exploit used in the event of a public statement regarding a security breach with Entrecard, in those rare instances where we do not ban the user on the spot.

We accept that some users would prefer not to do this, in which case it is necessary for us to retain the ban on their account in order to protect the reputation and integrity of the Entrecard service for our members.

I understand that when you made that statement you did not expect to get called on it. Consider this an object lesson on just how seriously we take the security of the drop system. As a result of Ahkong lobbying on your behalf, we granted you an opportunity to retract your statement in order to have your account restored. I'd guess from this thread that you neither feel responsible for your actions and their consequences, nor do you intend to follow our requirements.

That's your choice. Nonetheless, as per our original offer, if you do choose to follow our requirements, please email me a link to the post in this forum and I will restore your account if you do so within the required timelimit.

Regards,
phi.
Heroxtus
post Apr 17 2008, 07:17 PM

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Maybe Vkeong and Phirate should just cooperate and settle this issue in private before it blows up any further.

I don't condone any kind of security abuse nor do I think any kind of backstabbing among forum members is appropriate.
vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 08:17 PM

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QUOTE(phirate @ Apr 17 2008, 06:23 PM)
It is our standard policy to require either a public retraction or details of the exploit used in the event of a public statement regarding a security breach with Entrecard, in those rare instances where we do not ban the user on the spot.

We accept that some users would prefer not to do this, in which case it is necessary for us to retain the ban on their account in order to protect the reputation and integrity of the Entrecard service for our members.

I understand that when you made that statement you did not expect to get called on it. Consider this an object lesson on just how seriously we take the security of the drop system. As a result of Ahkong lobbying on your behalf, we granted you an opportunity to retract your statement in order to have your account restored. I'd guess from this thread that you neither feel responsible for your actions and their consequences, nor do you intend to follow our requirements.

That's your choice. Nonetheless, as per our original offer, if you do choose to follow our requirements, please email me a link to the post in this forum and I will restore your account if you do so within the required timelimit.

Regards,
phi.
*
Thanks for the offer but no thanks. My view on this issue is very simple

1. You deleted my account with no CONCRETE proof or system LOGS of my wrongdoing. All you have is 2 posts in the forum and AhKong who backstabbed me. Please lah, if you're a judge and want to send someone to jail, at least have evidence.
2. I don't think your programmer is AWESOME. I am a programmer myself, and I can't believe that he cannot see the loophole

I think the way you handled this is very bad. Did you even investigate my claims and what Ah Kong said? NO! As for AhKong lobbying for myself, what a joke! That's blatant backstab! I can't think of any other reasons he would report the matter to you besides wanting my account banned. Hypocrite.

This post has been edited by vkeong: Apr 17 2008, 08:21 PM
bobbytoat
post Apr 17 2008, 09:51 PM

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where's the thread in which vkeong publicly claimed that he could drop 300 times in 5 seconds?
goldfries
post Apr 17 2008, 10:03 PM

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quite obviously......... the Entrecard thread!
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/606847/+60


Deimos Tel`Arin
post Apr 17 2008, 10:10 PM

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Dear vkeong,

I certainly did not ask phirate to delete your EntreCard account.

I only told phirate that there might be an EntreCard exploit, and gave him the relevant url.

For your information, EntreCard is coded by one programmer only - phirate.

I have no intention to "polish phirate's shoes".

I do not feel good about phirate deleting your EntreCard account just like that, which is why I requested him to restore your EntreCard account.

Also, stop clicking on my Google Adsense Ads already, thank you.


Added on April 17, 2008, 10:14 pm
QUOTE(goldfries @ Apr 17 2008, 10:12 AM)
vkeong, as a developer myself, i can tell you that sometimes you JUST DON'T SEE the loophole in the system until someone found it and tells you.

even Facebook had loopholes for people to make money.

really la, if they know they would've fixed it. smile.gif anyway - is dropping 300 cards in 5 minutes breaching of Entrecard policy? DID they have such rules against # of drops per second?

I think that's your only defence - are you in breach of any? Is it wrong to drop 300 cards in 5 minutes?
*
@goldfries:
He mentioned 5 second, not 5 minutes.

This post has been edited by Deimos Tel`Arin: Apr 17 2008, 10:14 PM
vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 10:14 PM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Apr 17 2008, 10:10 PM)
Dear vkeong,

I certainly did not ask phirate to delete your EntreCard account.

I only told phirate that there might be an EntreCard exploit, and gave him the relevant url.

For your information, EntreCard is coded by one programmer only - phirate.

I have no intention to "polish phirate's shoes".

I do not feel good about phirate deleting your EntreCard account just like that, which is why I requested him to restore your EntreCard account.

Also, stop clicking on my Google Adsense Ads already, thank you.
*
Oh, besides backstabbing me, now you are also accusing me of clicking your adsense? LMAO. You do things ar, no evidence one hor? You simple accuse ppl doing things?

FYI I have adblock plus installed, so when I drop entrecards I don't have to load their stupid adsense/projectwonderful/nuffnang/advertlets/spott for faster website loading

OBVIOUSLY you have more enemies than you think. And still, you want to make more enemies LOL.
vkeong
post Apr 17 2008, 10:19 PM

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Oh Phirate, you are the programmer? No wonder you want me to do all the nonsense things to get my account back

If you are not smart enough to find the loop hole, you can beg me to tell you. Maybe I can consider wink.gif I am very sure out of the 7k members, there are many who know this trick. Awesome... omg you think you are awesome drool.gif drool.gif
Deimos Tel`Arin
post Apr 17 2008, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(vkeong @ Apr 17 2008, 10:14 PM)
Oh, besides backstabbing me, now you are also accusing me of clicking your adsense? LMAO. You do things ar, no evidence one hor? You simple accuse ppl doing things?

FYI I have adblock plus installed, so when I drop entrecards I don't have to load their stupid adsense/projectwonderful/nuffnang/advertlets/spott for faster website loading

OBVIOUSLY you have more enemies than you think. And still, you want to make more enemies LOL.
*
I did not backstab you, please check out the EntreCard thread for my explanation.

Yes, I am accusing you of clicking my Google Adsense Ads.

Yes, I have no evidence to back up my accusation.

No, I do not simply accuse people of doing things.

No, I do not think about enemies until you decide to bring up this matter.

No, I do not want to make more enemies, why would I want to do that?

QUOTE(vkeong @ Apr 17 2008, 10:19 PM)
Oh Phirate, you are the programmer? No wonder you want me to do all the nonsense things to get my account back

If you are not smart enough to find the loop hole, you can beg me to tell you. Maybe I can consider wink.gif I am very sure out of the 7k members, there are many who know this trick. Awesome... omg you think you are awesome  drool.gif  drool.gif
*
You are not helping.
goldfries
post Apr 17 2008, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Apr 17 2008, 10:10 PM)
@goldfries:
He mentioned 5 second, not 5 minutes.
oh. didn't realize that. LOL. see, that's the thing.

I've not used Entrecard for a while and even so I doubted his claims.

even so, that's the thing you see. It's fair enough if you wish to highlight the flaw. As users, I believe it's always your right to highlight any thing which you think is an abuse to the developer or whatever - fine.

i think the issue that's not so NICE over here is that while he claims to be able to do so, it was accepted IMMEDIATELY without any form of proof or investigation on the authenticity of his claims (well, this is based on what was posted so far).

so i guess Entrecard should come up with a SPEED LIMIT rule then? would I be penalized for dropping 300 cards in 5 minutes? what's the fastest I'm allowed?

from what I see, DROPPING IT FAST isn't abusing the system. It's like hey, I did it faster than you. that's it.

anyway i LOLed at this

QUOTE
"I wish to apologize to my fellow Entrecard users for undermining their faith in the Entrecard system in order to boost my ego. I do not in fact have a method for automatically dropping cards rapidly. I also apologize to the Entrecard programmer, who is in fact awesome."


---------

QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Apr 17 2008, 10:34 PM)
Yes, I am accusing you of clicking my Google Adsense Ads.

Yes, I have no evidence to back up my accusation.

No, I do not simply accuse people of doing things.


point #3 contradicts #1 and #2. sad.gif


Added on April 17, 2008, 10:43 pmphirate

QUOTE
Entrecard:
I saw you admit it openly on a forum. Our policy is simple, your word is good enough for us, if you say that you breached the security (and the word CAN implies that you have tested this) we're more than happy to accept that as sufficient proof and punish you for it.

....

1. Provide us with the details of the method you utilized to subvertEntrecard security or....
1. how is a claim enough to justify any action taken? Even in the court of law, one isn't punished until sufficient evidence is provided.

2. I don't recall seeing him saying he BREACHED SECURITY. All he said was dropping 300 cards in 5 seconds. or was this based on assumption? more cards per second isn't security breach, right?

3. "Provide us with the details of the method you utilized to subvertEntrecard security" did he subvert Entrecard security in the first place?

This post has been edited by goldfries: Apr 17 2008, 10:46 PM

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