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 ASB loan, worth to get it???

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Fushigidane
post Jan 11 2017, 03:18 AM

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Hi all. I've been a lurker for quite a while and anyway I've got some questions regarding my ASB Financing scheme. Anyway I really appreciate the constructive discussion here and it really helps. notworthy.gif

My parents helped me to open 200K financing accounts when I was a bit younger (and a bit stupid). The whole financing tenure is 30 years (I believe its the maximum). To make things short now basically ASB dividends are annually paying for the loan. I was basically ignorant about the whole thing and never really bothered to really care about it besides taking out the leftovers from the dividend and go enjoy somewhere. sweat.gif

Now I'm finally a fresh graduate about to start my working life and this whole new reality pushed me to really care about things like this. Anyway I see myself here at an advantage to maximize returns and getting early capital gains (200K worth of ASB certificate shocking.gif ) before retirement from this if I consistently save and try to settle the loan earlier than scheduled. And probably expand into ASB2 and other investing instruments etc.

I'm still quite new in this...and there are many things that I don't really understand. Since I've been paying the loans annually through dividends, there are terms the receipt that confuse me like:

Advance Payment
Principal Amount
Interest

I've been reading a bit about amortization and actually it makes much more sense in monthly payments. But since my parents set up the whole thing for me and expected the whole thing to pay by itself (dividends) annually (tak payah fikir banyak), will it be more efficient to pay monthly (since I have monthly wages now)? And at the end of the year I can make extra (advance) payment by using the dividends.

And I wonder what's the relationship between Principal and Payoff Amount?
Fushigidane
post Jan 14 2017, 08:21 AM

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Wow, I missed a lot in a few days' time. But firstly thank you bro buggie for responding to my question. thumbup.gif I think I'll start with your reply and actually I have more questions now... hmm.gif

QUOTE("buggie")
Wow, quite a lot of questions there. Will try to address it. Please ask again if I've missed out something.

Firstly, Congrats as you have taken the first step by asking. If you've just graduated then you should be 23-25. And look like your parents are smart people and have the foresight to apply the loan for you. If they applied when you were 18, then you would be 5 years in. Is the loan under your name or your parent's name?

Should point out a couple of things here. First, don't settle this ASB loan. We want to take advantage of OPM. At your age, you should always make sure that the loan is at max tenure all the time so as to minimize your monthly payments and get back the ammortized portion. Secondly, if you're going the 'rolling dividend to pay next year's loan' route, don't ever pay annually. You will lose out on the compounding interest. You wanna pay as late as possible, just after they lock in the interest for the month. Also, interest on the loan is probably lower that what you are paying now so you should terminate and reapply as soon as possible. And when you reapply, go for the max tenure here again. Don't worry about the never-ending tenure. It is a non-factor here. Totally ignore it.

If you're rolling the dividend, at the end of 30 years, you would only have 200K. This ASB loan tool has so much more potential than that!


It's under my name. Now I understand the reason of keeping the loan tenure max as possible, paying on a monthly basis rather than annually, and terminating the loan before interest rates go downhill on me. Do banks have a consistent timing of locking interest rates every month or do I need to keep my eyes open whenever the posted rate is changed? confused.gif

Also if I understand this correctly, every start of a year I should take out the leveraged ASB dividend and spread the payment in a 12-month basis. Is that correct? To me this sounds like cost averaging over the 12 months.

QUOTE("buggie")
Since you have monthly wages now, and if you can afford RM 1,000 per month and assuming the banks approve your loan, I suggest you don't touch your dividends and let it compound. Here is what I would do if i were you If the current loan is under your name). Terminate the current loan very early in the month and get back the ammortized value. If the loan is already 3 - 5 years, you should get back RM 3k - RM 5k plus some insurance premium back as well. Do with this amount what you will or you can start your ASB2 with it. Immediately reapply your loan and push the banks to disburse the amount into your ASB within the same month! (cannot stress this enough as it will effect your dividend and your bonus dividend)

Keep paying the monthly from your salary and don't touch the dividend. After 3 years terminate and reapply to get back the ammortized value and take advantage of the bank's competitive rates. Again, timing is crucial to make sure that they put in the money in the same month you terminate. Rinse and repeat every 3 years.


Hmm, I wonder if banks have any issue with customers terminating performing loans? Am I guessing this correctly that banks are fully aware of this trend/strategy among customers and they welcome it in order to boost loan sales?

QUOTE("buggie")
Ok i'm gonna be your fortune teller here... barring any unforeseen circumstances. After roughly 10 years, you would have earned 200k in dividends. Free to do as you will! From here on, you will be earning dividends on 400k (200k cert + 200k cash dividend). Plus if you terminate/reapply every 3 years, you would have additional 10k


I wonder what's the max loan tenure for individuals aged 40 and above? This time I wouldn't have the youth advantage anymore.

QUOTE("buggie")
If PNB still limit loan size to 200k, and your salary in the last 10 years probably would be substantially more, you can start your ASB2 loan. Sooner even if your funds allows it. For me at the time, PNB allowed 400k loan so what i did was took out that earned 200k dividend, transferred to ASB2 and applied 400k loan on ASB. So earning on 600k yearly. Then when the banks allowed loans on ASB2, I applied the 200k ASB2 loan and transferred the 200k cash to ASD, now earning dividends on 800k (400k ASB; 200k ASB2; 200k ASD). Of course during that time all of them were earning dividends for me so now I'm close to earning dividends on a Million yearly. More when it compounds.

As I've mentioned, we don't know maybe PNB will open up again so you need to be ready for when that happens. So you should focus on this medium-term goal. Once you reach that 10 year mark, reevaluate your position. The financial climate and landscape might be different then so no need to look too far ahead. Sometimes planning too far can be a liability or a hindrance as it closes your mind to possibilities as you are too focused on a target in front of you that you fail to see what's to your left or right.


So from what I understand here is that bro you never finished paying your loan but rather you used the OPM way to let cash units (I understand from subsequent conversations that the current 200K limit is only applicable to certificate units which the bank is loaning to me now) accumulate in your ASB book over the 200K limit and still earning dividends from the cash units + certificate units. Please correct me if I'm wrong here as I found this idea truly attractive.

Also one last newbie thing thing that I would like to confirm - I'm not sure if every Malaysian bank follows the same format on their loan statements...but I noticed discrepancies in this year's Principal amount and last year's Payoff Amount (they don't tally). Somehow the Principal increased a bit every year and it seems that I need to pay a bit more to settle the debt (now I think I won't be going this way and proceed with the OPM method). Some of my fears are this are late payment charges incurred as I'm paying annually as opposed to making monthly payments, adding to the principal owed. But this is a wild guess from me and I could be very wrong.

QUOTE("buggie")
To quote you, "I see myself here at an advantage to maximize returns and getting early capital gains". This is very matured thinking and hats off to you for having that early realization. Youth is your main asset here.


I really appreciate your sharing here bro! notworthy.gif
Fushigidane
post Jan 15 2017, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE("buggie")
No need to thank me Bro. 10 years from now when you've earned that 200k in dividends, just belanja this old man a teh tarik ok? Haha. We can discuss your next steps...


Absolutely! Let me just check back with my bank and get my confusion sorted out.
Fushigidane
post Jan 18 2017, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Jan 16 2017, 03:40 PM)
Somehow I missed answering this question. I'll revisit this because I think it's important.

If you're going down this route, which is to let the dividend pay for the next year's loan repayments, you should never take out at the start of the year and pay monthly. Firstly, there is a risk that you will overspend the dividend elswhere!  laugh.gif

Secondly, Since the more you have in ASB the more dividend you'll get, it makes economic sense to leave the dividend in there as long as possible and only take out when you need to pay to the bank. Meaning, go to the bank every month, ideally the first working day of the month take out 1,xxx and pay your loan for the last month. Leaving the rest in there to earn you dividends.

But again, let me stress this. Although you get free money at the end of the tenure of 200k you shouldn't limit yourself. If you pay monthly from your salary without touching the dividends and let it compound, at the end of 30 years you'll get roughly 1.4M! and you've paid roughly 360k for a nett gain of 1.1M.

1.1M - 200k = 900k more!

That's 1.4M in cash buddy, you can let it rain!  rclxm9.gif

A lot of people drive a big car/big house but in their bank accounts cannot even buy a used kancil cash...  doh.gif haha... sorry trolling a bit.
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Yeah bro, I agree. Withdrawing dividends is a bad idea...letting it compound is the best way forward to financial freedom! rclxms.gif But since I was a university student I didn't have any other income to repay the loan, so dividends was the way to go.

Anyway I told my parents of terminating my loan and they kinda disagreed...but I haven't met them face to face yet to explain everything. I guess financial discussions over the phone is not best way to present this.

I saw a lot of subsequent discussions here and am trying my best to follow. sweat.gif Thank you bro Haziq for your sharing here! notworthy.gif

Agree bro buggie. I've been living frugally for a year now due to reading a lot about Warren Buffett: I like his style. I now find happiness in things that doesn't cost a fortune. innocent.gif
Fushigidane
post Jan 28 2017, 10:23 PM

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So I had a face-to-face discussion with my father about the OPM method and he disagreed. Somehow it's quite difficult to discuss financial matters with people way older than you because they assume that they're always right in the matter and they dislike conflicting opinions. bangwall.gif I don't mean any disrespect and I know they are wayyy experienced in this matter...but as always its frustrating. yawn.gif

Anyway apparently from what I understood from the discussion was the biggest issue with OPM method is risk (plus the hassle of queueing up at the bank every month - but hey we've got internet banking these days...so that's a non-issue). I never dealt with loan termination procedures before and apparently as a newbie I was made to be scared with every possible imaginable bank bureaucratic nightmare (delays in getting ASB loan re-disbursed, delays in getting back insurance premium, low principal to interest ratio in the early years of payment - low amortization).

But my father did agree with leaving the dividends alone though and using my salary to pay the monthly installments.

In addition I'm also being told the risks of getting laid off and not being able to commit to monthly payments when out of job - but I guess that topic would belong to another thread.

Now I'm having a frustrating dilemma of security vs maximizing gains. confused.gif

EDIT: This maybe a bit out of topic...but I wonder if ASB dividends can catch up with annual inflation rates?

This post has been edited by Fushigidane: Jan 28 2017, 10:30 PM
Fushigidane
post Feb 4 2017, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Jan 30 2017, 07:34 AM)
Very sorry to hear about this. Did you explain to them systematically and methodically? Showing them facts and figures? Also you have to address their concerns.

What was their concern anyway? You mentioned the biggest issue was risk. What is the risk they are concerned about? Also, why do you need to queue up at the bank every month?

Concerns with dealing with the banks and low amortisation? That's almost a non issue to me. Like anything else in this world,  set a plan and execute it. Sometimes things goes according to plan, sometimes things don't. When they don't, you learn from it. If the bank delays and don't get it done in the same month, you will not earn as much but still more than the current system you're using of rolling the dividends.  As for amortisation, it's fixed and there's a schedule the banks follow. Also a non issue here. You will get back what was discussed earlier.

Well anyways, the system discussed was to  compound the interest, pay from your salary and terminate and reapply every 3 years right? Well since your dad agrees with compounding and paying from your salary, then the only thing is the terminating. No biggie. It's only about 10k in 10 years. So you just lose out on 1k per year. Just do the compounding then.

Laid off from work? Firstly, it ain't that easy being laid off from work in our current labour laws. That's why non performing staff usually gets the 'freezer' instead of being laid off. So unless you're stealing from your company, this is also a non issue. If you've got a job, work at it 100% and work your way up. Trust me,  paying off 1k a month later will so much easier then now. But in the off chance you do get laid off, there is still no risk...  Just terminate the loan. Or if you don't want to terminate, then just go back to what you were doing before...  Pay from your dividends and retain your loan. The reason why this asb loan is such a hit is not that it is low risk.... It is NO risk!

Security vs maximising gains? The old adage goes....  Low risk, low returns. High risk,  high returns. That still holds true. But not for this loan. Here, it's No risk, high returns. Dude, trust me... There is no security issues here. Inflation? What's the inflation rate and how much are dividends? You can immediately tell from the figures. But even if inflation is higher than dividends.... Asb is still one of the highest returns you'd get. You need to change the government to lower the inflation... Lol

Either way, at some point in your life, you need to take control of your own finances. To me, that starts when you start earning your own money. What's stopping you from doing this if you truly believe that it works? Your parents wouldn't know anyway what you do at the bank. In 5 years just show them your asb book and tell them... I'm sure they wouldn't mind as much.

Oh and ASB is not everything. It's just one investment vehicle. As you progress and earn more, you'll discover that this is just part if your portfolio. Theres property, mutual funds, stock markets, business,  etc.
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I see...that makes more sense now. Nowadays I tend to overthink things trying to get stuff to be perfect as possible - gotta stop that I guess!

Anyway thank you again bro buggie for the constructive comments and useful explanations. biggrin.gif

EDIT: Just another question, which bank currently has the best user-friendliness when it comes online loan payments?

This post has been edited by Fushigidane: Feb 4 2017, 09:53 PM
Fushigidane
post Mar 26 2017, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(AveoHzq @ Mar 23 2017, 08:26 PM)
Bro, whats the current rate now? Heard its 4.8%?
CIMB can do without takaful?
Do pm me the details, thanks.
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Bro Haziq could you PM me the details as well? I've been following the USD/MYR v5 thread and I'm kinda concerned with the downtrend as well...
Fushigidane
post Apr 10 2017, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(HolySatan @ Apr 9 2017, 11:21 PM)
cimb.. y u very tamak.. now need 3k asnb-v for 4.8%.. last time only 1k..  mad.gif

user posted image
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What's a ASNB-V? confused.gif
Fushigidane
post May 1 2018, 12:04 PM

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Hi all. I haven't checked this thread for quite a while...been working for about a year now since graduation and been consistently paying the loan over the months (love the compounding too).

My current interest rates seem to be 5.35%. Kinda feel left behind when the bros here said promo now is like 5%.

Am I missing something?

PS: I signed up with CIMB.
Fushigidane
post Dec 23 2018, 12:09 PM

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Hi all...it has been quite a while since I get back here.

Anyone with CIMB got their interest rates bumped to 5.45%? rclxub.gif sweat.gif

Feels like terminating and reapplying for a better rate...but still worry that will kacau my compounding flow...
Fushigidane
post Dec 23 2018, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(alpha001 @ Dec 23 2018, 12:43 PM)
This interest rate change every month or year?
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Monthly I think.
Fushigidane
post Dec 23 2018, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(ezrachan @ Dec 23 2018, 01:15 PM)
I believe ur monthly payment haven't changed even the interest rate had increase.

Mind to ask, how much is ur asb loan ya? U may apply for new loan (with better rate) without terminating it first. And terminate it after ur new loan got approved. It may effect 1 month dividend but there should be no problem with ur compounding flow since it based on accumulated dividend. Hope for higher dividend distribution la so can earn lebih sikit :-)
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Yes, my monthly payment does not change. I'm maxed right now.

Actually never knew that I can apply for a better rate without terminating! sweat.gif

 

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