AFAIK there is no such rule. As a company with good corporate governance the controlling shareholder would normally abstain from voting

ehem..."good corporate governance"...ehem

Yes, I understand.

But do you think this resolution can go through if major shareholders abstain from voting?

I think it is either a Co Act or SC rule or Bursa req, on RPT.

RPT parties cannot vote.

Very popular many years back, or could be amended ?

Usually they have enough proxies to vote them through one.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jul 2 2010, 05:20 PM

Are there any law that require an EGM for acquisition at certain % of NAV? I think they have one but not sure which country liao. The majority shareholders can vote in such an acquisition if I am not mistaken. If not, the minority shareholders can bully the majority shareholders.

I just updated on this issue.

Related major shareholders or directors must not vote in the RRPT (recurrrent related party transaction), according to Bursa listing requirement under paragraph 10.09(1).

But this is on RRPT on business business operation side issue.

I don't know exactly it is applicable in the GenM issue, as it is a non-recurrent event.

Thank cherroy for the info. Any IOI Prop shareholders? Maybe can shed some light during IOI Corp acquisition of IOI Prop. It is a related-party transaction also right?

Bursa wanted to amend or toughen this rule for many times soon after the first Genting's RPT issue, somehow lacking of political will.

There was a massive FF pull out of Genting at that moment.

I think this could be the third or fourth Genting RPT, and yet Bursa is more silence than before.

Probably they themselves feel guilty of not doing anything.

Yup. FF owns around 40% of GENM free float. So many times of kena screw by Genting management, I think they just got tired and walk off the company.

The Edge reported that GenM would have a gearing of 0.05 times upon completion of the RPT.
GenM will no longer be a cash rich company. Nothing to look forward to.

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Added on July 2, 2010, 10:24 pmLooking at it, the obvious beneficiary is Genting Singapore which would receive RM1.67 billion in cash. Genting Singapore is now obviously a better bet.
Any opinion?

This post has been edited by Oracles99: Jul 2 2010, 10:24 PM

sigh.... u guys really need to read more about the company to come to any sort of conclusion... you guys jus skim across the surface of the news and think you know so much about the company that u'd think every TDH can actually run a monopoly company.



to bro snowball. whn i say TAXES.. i am not jus only talking about company taxes.. i am talking about gaming duties.. i guess you hv little insights to the amount the win amount is taxed at.. its a whopping 50%!!!!
so yes, pls go look at the HRMC and Gambling commission UK to find out more about TAXES on gaming companies.

just because UK has been seen as a loss making company doesnt mean it CANNOT TURN around?

do you guys even know why the business a flop in the first place??? why does everyone come to conclusion so quickly?

UK has faced strict regulations and economic down turn in the last recent years to name a few- smoking ban, higher gaming duties, the economic crisis (and mind u, u cant compare macau with UK, asian gamblers take risks during bad times, and the westerners take shelter in equal times)

i dont think its fair to say the management in Genting are sitting back and shaking their legs just because thy run a monopoly industry. UNless you have worked with them or know thm personally. OR you ran an equal size company with similar characteristics.

like we all say, "its always easy to talk the talk, but lets see you walk the walk. "

This post has been edited by ruztynail: Jul 3 2010, 12:30 AM

But don't you think it is not fair to GenM shareholders? Whom are getting not much dividend despite very good profit being made throughout.

People bought GenM share, mainly because its cash generation and good profit from Genting Highlands.
Now 1/3 of cash is gone into GenUK which has been doing poorly over the years.
It may turns around or may not, but 1.6 billion cash acquisition with no visibility of profitable, is something existing GenM would not like to see.

Just like take a smaller scale, would you venture into a business while you don't know you able to make a profit or not?

If investors would like Genting as a group, then those investors will buy Genting share directly, not GenM.

When you separated out two listing company especially listed sister company/subsidiaries company, then it has its purposes, aka offering alternative to investors to own or enjoy a specific business profitability.

GenM shareholdes won't mind if the UK business is contributing to the GenM after the acquisition or have proven record of profitability.

While if the acquisition is done from third party, then it might have lesser issue to start with. It is the RPT issue that concern the most for existing shareholders, while the deal is about 1.6 billion cash involved.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 3 2010, 12:46 AM

why wouldn't GENM buy over GENSP as well ? If they could acquire GENUK. They rather inject fund into Genting Group by buying building from it, now they found way to transfer fund to GENSP. They just don't want to bring anything good to GENM. In my term, I consider those are toxic asset.

GENM are cash cow, they don't make good use of it. Instead they abuse it for own good.

Curse LKT.

This post has been edited by rayloo: Jul 3 2010, 07:57 AM

This is better than the resolution proposed.
Or
another suggestion
GenM and GenSp, being taken private by Genting Berhad, in this structure, internal fund can be crossed linked one another. No RPT issue anymore.

This would be better deal and fair and square to all.

I think they are killing two birds with one stone.

GenM share price to fall further, making it more ideal for them to take it to private.

And they would say in response to unhappiness of small fish, they decide to take GenM into private, and they think the current share buy back ( in exchange for Genting share ) would be Fair to all, bla , bla ..

And finally Holding Genting mother share ( instead of GenM ) should be a long term consideration for all.

Put a note here just in case it happens in the near future.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jul 3 2010, 11:17 AM

yup, who knows, maybe another Walker Digital Gaming saga in the making from director LKT (pun intended).

Ruztynail, I have attributed GEN UK failure in my previous post as a bad call and bad luck . Yes, there are smoking ban and all that. But, the reason they buy big into UK is that they anticipate the legislation changes in UK to allow vegas style super-casino. Have they done enough analysis to determine the probability that UK legislation won't go through? Or they are too eager to expand quickly? They should have take into account the gaming taxes when going into the country. Taxes is one of the key component that will make or break an acquisition, I am sure they have price in into the acquisition price. The management can always blame other issues when an acquisition do not perform well. If not, what they can do?Admit they are wrong? That's why I hate acquisition, it is more likely to fail than succeed regardless of whether it is related party or not.

I am not saying that GENM management is sitting back. I am saying that they have no clue how to turn this mess around but still try to assure to the shareholders that they have the ability and experience to turn it around. The fact is that the only experience they have is running a monopoly in Asia but this casino is in Europe. Genting itself have no good record when doing overseas mega acquisition. So, that's make the minority investors unhappy. Because, if you have no ability to find good projects, you may as well return the cash to the shareholders not embarking on empire building and cash hoarding. The fact that I don't run a big company or don't deal with them personally does not mean that I cannot criticize them. It is like saying I can't criticize Najib because I don't work with him and I have not been a PM. I can look at the management track record to determine whether this LKT and the gang are good manager.

The key contention here is GENM treatment of its shareholders. GENM is not a division that the the Genting group have 100% ownership, so, when the management make decision on GENM, they have to consider the interest of GENM, not the interest of a group. In this case, it is clearly a decision make in the interest of a group. Obviously, Genting Group benefit from this deal, but, the minority shareholders in GENM suffers. The management promises acquisition to expand it reach, so, the some investors buy into the management talk. But, now, they turn around and buy GEN UK. It is not the type of acquisition that the minority shareholders expected.

What I hope now is that GENM sell some of its GENUK stake to some private equity, like what they have done for NCL. Let those private equity guys turn this mess around, because the GENM management have no clue how to deal with this mess.

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Added on July 3, 2010, 4:09 pmBoth suggestion are good. But too bad that Genting or GENM don't have enough resources to buy over GENS. It is too expensive for them. Plus the current structure allows these subsidiaries to be properly valued and more importantly, for Lim Family to control these businesses without putting in too much cash.

This post has been edited by the snowball: Jul 3 2010, 04:09 PM

BTW: Have you noticed that almost all the big deals were done with one person from HongKong, since Star Cruise purchase .



This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jul 3 2010, 06:05 PM

May i know who is the person?

i understand where u are coming from. but i guess there must be a reason for all of these to happen as well. IF its a loss making company... wouldnt thy hv offered it out to some other 3rd party to buy it and most probably get a better offer? once and for all get rid of the bad business?

anyways look at WDG.. jardon, and its subsi, american playing cards are joining hands.. thy are getting their involvement. so my guess is things are working out for WDG?