Hi All,

For those streamyx users, are you aware that Streamyx is blocking outbound port 25?

http://www.streamyx.com.my/whats_new/whats...rticle_20080311

What this means is that if you are using any email clients - Outlook, ThunderBird to send emails out from Streamyx, you will be blocked.

This is extremely inconvenient for ppl working from home.

Please give your thoughts on this..

thanks.

Aya, Old story already. I already read this news on December 2007.
This thing is cause by who?
All Spamers that using TMNet's Internet service also.
So, I still think its not releven to fight spam. There are still lots of spam from TM's network especially People who try to promote their Work-At-Home business.

Sorry if this sounds rude but its really through.

I know..it's old story.

I called up their CS in December, and they said they hav not implemented it.

Today, i have problems sending out email from outlook express, then i checked their website and found their latest announcement.

I know Spammers use TMNET to spam, but does that give TMNET the right to penalize everyone?

If next time, some one does a new technology "HTTP" hijacking, does that mean TMNET block port 80 for everyone and force all their suscribers to use their proxy?


There's a lot of antispam technology that can help TMNET fight their spam issue. They just need to find the right solution and not take the easy way by blocking outbound port25.

There will be a lot of SOHO ppl working from home that will be affected by this.

I do agree with you. Thats why I say Their ideas of blocking port is not relevant
They should give their AntiSpam free to us. If Free Mail such as Yahoo and Google can give their AntiSpam service for free, why can't TMNet.
What do you think?

Actually the Spam issue is more serious than one would normally perceive.

Even if TMnet gives us free AntiSpam software, the SPAM issue will still be there. TMNET's dynamic ip address would still be blacklisted by many AntiSpam solution in the market today.
AntiSpam solution works by a few ways- examining the email contents, DNS checkup and also compares the email's ip address.

So when TMnet user A with ip address ie 65.54.100.1, sents a lot of spam. AntiSpam solutions out there will soon blacklist this ip address. So when, a new TMnet user B gets this unlucky ip address 65.54.100.1, whenever he tried to sent emails (even valid emails), AntiSpam solution will detect it as SPAM as his ip address is already blacklisted.

http://www.blacklistedip.com/

If you are just using e-mail client like Thunderbird/Eudora this will not affect you. Do you run a SMTP server?

This is a good policy from TM. Far too much spam comes from p0wned Windows PCs on ADSL lines.

People who are having problems can deliver their email via port 587 or use TM's SMTP servers.

Yes, good policy. But someone left his/her brains at home or in the trash.

Their announcement states that "Streamyx customers with dynamic IP addresses, who have their own mail server will not be able to send out-going e-mails", but engineer's implemention was "block everything with source AND destination port =25, unless IP address resolves to smtp.streamyx.com / smtp.tm.net.my". Ceh. Seems to me, their policy makers did not clearly define "outbound SMTP" -- whether that means only traffic whose source port =25, or, traffic whose source OR destination port =25. The annoucement should've been more precise.

tmnut always nut, no brain at all.....................

Yes, if they are blocking port 25 inbound (connections from the internet to a Streamyx subscriber), or blocking based on source port=25, that is useless and stupid.

i've read in the forum guiding to solve this matter

go to your account settings....and change your email settings. change your smtpserver to smtp-proxy.tm.net.my and uncheck the 'my outgoing server requires authentication'. leave other settings remain at it is. and it will send your email out

To date, I can still send out-going emails from my home email server at port 25 (default SMTP) and receive new in-coming emails to my home email server at port 110 (default POP3) by using dynamic IP address. And, I register my dynamic IP address with a dynamic domain name. So, I don't have to refer to my current dynamic IP address in my email client settings. I am using Streamyx account and I don't abuse it. The important thing is to check the port forwarding of your router to make sure it allows port 25 and port 110. And, your email server should be able to deny open relays to port 25.

This post has been edited by eclectice: Apr 3 2008, 01:29 AM

It only solve partial problems. For system admins like me, we need to test email servers directly. We can't have any ports blocked because tmnet engineers are too lazy to use proper way to solve problems.

i think you still can use the email client.
blocking outbound 25..
that doesnt mean you cant connect to your mail server out there..
you're connecting to port 25 not from 25..
traffic to port 25 still widely open for me here..

their main purpose is to avoid any user to use their own email server for sending out spam..

This post has been edited by ozs: Apr 7 2008, 05:00 PM

I can't connect to email server located in US through SMTP.

I am trying to send email through my server in US by connected to it via SMTP (port 25).

I think this does get blocked as it is "outbound" mail through SMTP. Cause I have no problems using Maxis broadband doing same thing.

have u tried it with other server?..
gmail maybe.. really weird.. i can connect to my company server, gmail, and my own hosting in us too..
if they really block outbound to 25 a lot of businessman will make noise already...
and i dont think they can bare that..

What is your IP? As stated in tmnet's statement, this will be done in stages. Probably your IP range is still no implemented yet.

Also, this only affects dynamic IPs. Those using corporate package will have fixed IP and that will not be blocked.

This post has been edited by abubin: Apr 7 2008, 05:10 PM

60.52.xxx.xxx

and yes i cant host my own email server...
inbound/outbound totally blocked..

This post has been edited by ozs: Apr 7 2008, 05:11 PM

They are trying to block spammer. Usually, spammers sent out emails by just sending an email directly out through port 25. Don't really need to have email server.

I am going to call tmnet to complain tonight. I just hope the support doesn't piss me off to dead with their stupid questions.

This post has been edited by abubin: Apr 7 2008, 05:17 PM

yup but normally all mail server does require authentication for SMTP..
even so if you're admin you will actually doing this if your mail server is publicly accessible..
so one cant simply doing that..

diff case if you got your own email server..

go ahead make noise.. because if they really doing this...
dunno what to say.. it doesnt make sense..

If you are a sysadmin then surely you have plenty of machines out on the net you can use to test from, either by ssh+telnet/nc or via a VPN.

yup, i have but it's stupid and annoying for tmnet to do such a thing. It's too extreme to block outbound SMTP. Anything going out now must go through smtp.tm.net.my

I hope their smtp server can't cope and then go offline every hour.

To the contrary, I think it is a very good idea for them to do this. The vast majority of all spam comes from zombie PCs in people's homes that just make outbound connections on port 25.

That's a huge amount of traffic clogging TM's network, making everything slower for the rest of us. Not to mention the hassle that the spam causes.

It's not a good idea to do this for an ISP. They can't use corporate mentality to run the business. They the the ISP!! How many ports can they block? Today they block port 25, tomorrow port 110 and so on. Pirates, spammers, hijackers and so on will always find other ports. This would means blocking whole range of ports in the end.

Hi,

Even if you use email clients like Outlook Express/ Thunderbird/ Eudora, you will still face this problem.
If you have outlook or thunderbird, when u define your email settings, you will see a setting for outgoing mail server. This is where port 25 will come into play.
When you configure for incoming mail server, you use pop3 or imap. Not SMTP.

I've already lodge a complaint/report to TM about this. We need more users to complain so that OUR voice can be heard!!

---

Added on April 7, 2008, 10:20 pmSo does this means if the car accident rate increases, we shud just reduce the highway speed limit to 50km/h?? Because the highway has many potholes, and the authority has no means to fixed the potholes, we conviniently introduce a speed limit reduction to everyone?? Come ON!!

Eventhough spammers uses port25, but there are also alot of legitimate users out there that uses port 25 for real business purposes.
There are many methods to combat spam, but TM is taking the shortcut by just blocking port25. They just have the convenience of assuming that port25 is meant only for email servers.

Ppl like me where my company email server is in the US, i rely on my email client to be able to send emails out via port 25.



This post has been edited by mytescocom: Apr 7 2008, 10:20 PM

Of course. The most important thing about the roads is that they are safe.

It would be great to have safe, fast roads, but if they are unable to provide that, then safe slow roads are the next best thing.


The spammers inconvenience millions of people every week and use a lot of resources.

I doubt there are more than 20 people in all of Malaysia who could make a good case that they "need" to use port 25. Their company mail servers should be accepting mail on port 587 which is the correct port for SMTP submission from end users. If the company mail servers are only accepting it on port 25 then they are misconfigured. The problem in this case is with the company running the mail server, not with TM.


I don't think you understand the reason for this block. It is to prevent compromised customer machines from sending spam elsewhere (99% of it goes to non-TMnet destinations). This is not about stopping spam to Streamyx customers, it's about stopping spam from them. There's not much else they can do along these lines, unless you want them to do as some other ISPs, and close your account down if they notice that your computer is infected.


My company email server is in the US too. I deliver send mail to it on port 587. I can send mail using TM's SMTP server. I can use a VPN to reach my company server on port 25. I can set up a redirector at the company to allow to use some other arbitrary port. There are many different solutions, most of them very easy.

You are so wrong about this. If you have your own SMTP server, you can use them to send e-mails. You are not restricted into using TMNut SMTP servers only. Do you really think TM will block third-party POP/SMTP e-mail providers? If they do I will go straight to MCMC and make a complaint.

It is when you have SMTP server using Streamyx dynamic IP address then you will have problems. Now, did you run a SMTP server at home? Did TMnut block usage of non-TMNut SMTP servers? For the latter, it seems that they don't. I have my own SMTP server, running to receive traffic at port 25, and if TMNut blocked me from using it, there will be hell to pay. But TMnut did not, so who am I to complain?

And yeah, I support TMNut move to block home SMTP servers from being operated.

Your analogy doesn't apply in this case as it isn't a matter of bad infrastructure (highway with many potholes). It's lusers causing problems for the rest of us.

---

Added on April 8, 2008, 6:40 amThat's a slippery slope argument. There's no basis for you to say that because today they block X, tomorrow they'll block Y. If they're going to block Y it's going to happen anyway.

What the beef is with TM should be is that they implemented it like cowboys! There wasn't advance notice when it was implemented and not just that, the block is applied inconsistently with some people facing it and some others not.

---

Added on April 8, 2008, 6:53 amIt's not as if home SMTP servers (those on dynamic IPs) have any real chance of reliable delivery these days anyway

Next, spammer with be using port 587 to spam. Virus/malware will be written to use port 587. Next, tmnet block port 587, then what?

That's easily solvable by mailserver admins - just configure their mailservers to reject mails from unauthenticated senders on port 587.

As WK says, my server only allows you to send on port 587 after you have authenticated with username and password. I assume this is the case with most (or maybe all). So it's a totally different situation.

Port 25 is for server->server, port 587 is for user->server.

Hi Asellus,

I think you do not know how SMTP operation works. Do you know that NOT only email server uses port 25 to send out emails? Email clients also uses port25 to send out emails back to their email servers.
email server to email server -port25, email client/user to email server can also use port 25.
Maybe there was a misunderstanding on the problem or you are not aware how email clients (outlook, thunderbird) works to sent emails back to their SMTP server.

I do not have an SMTP server at home. I'm only a user using Outlook Express to send emails back to my office email server in US. Previously my outlook clients uses port 25 for outgoing emails. Now i've changed it to use a different outgoing port. I'm forturnate my corporate email server supports an alternative port. For those that don't, they will have a tough time sending email out from a email client.

Please read and understand SMTP, SMTP auth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_T...ail_SMTP_server
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMTP-AUTH

you're so wrong dude.. asellus was right..
yup you'll use port 25 for smtp.. we all know..
but from client you'll not be using port 25 for connecting to your mail server....
tmnet block all outbound smtp traffic
means all traffic from port 25..

i know you're really think when using email client u're using port 25..
play around with netstat while sending out mail then u know..
you're connecting to 25.. not from 25..

its same thing while u browsing..
did u really think u're using port 80 at your machine while browsing this forum(webserver)?..

This post has been edited by ozs: Apr 10 2008, 01:36 PM

What i mean is outbound port 25. This means connecting to tcp port 25 on the email server.Please read the title of this topic.
email client (random port >1024) -----> internet ------> (port 25)email server.

What Asellus mean (as far as i interpret it) was he thought only email servers (MTA) uses outbound port25. What i was trying to relay the message is that email clients (outlook, thunderbird) also uses port 25 (outbound) to sent emails to mail servers.
So when TMnut blocks outbound port 25, this causes problems to email clients not only to those that host email servers.

Peace ..

thank you for your tip bro.
I just found the solution after a months wondering why I cant send out my email outside my office and I thought it's may be my company server problem but the truth is TM's @ TM nut f**king S**t problem.

Why TM still can't realize that we PAY them for the services (event its a small amount, its still money isn't it). If they cant provide good services why they become an ISP, or because they exist just want to TIPU ORANG. What a lazy TM

This post has been edited by ell: Jul 8 2008, 09:25 PM