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> TMNET Streamyx blocking outbound port 25, Can't send out email from email clients (Streamyx)

rajulkabir
post Apr 7 2008, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE(abubin @ Apr 7 2008, 04:28 PM)
It only solve partial problems. For system admins like me, we need to test email servers directly. We can't have any ports blocked because tmnet engineers are too lazy to use proper way to solve problems.
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If you are a sysadmin then surely you have plenty of machines out on the net you can use to test from, either by ssh+telnet/nc or via a VPN.
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abubin
post Apr 7 2008, 06:28 PM
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yup, i have but it's stupid and annoying for tmnet to do such a thing. It's too extreme to block outbound SMTP. Anything going out now must go through smtp.tm.net.my

I hope their smtp server can't cope and then go offline every hour.
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rajulkabir
post Apr 7 2008, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE(abubin @ Apr 7 2008, 06:28 PM)
yup, i have but it's stupid and annoying for tmnet to do such a thing. It's too extreme to block outbound SMTP.

To the contrary, I think it is a very good idea for them to do this. The vast majority of all spam comes from zombie PCs in people's homes that just make outbound connections on port 25.

That's a huge amount of traffic clogging TM's network, making everything slower for the rest of us. Not to mention the hassle that the spam causes.
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abubin
post Apr 7 2008, 06:59 PM
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It's not a good idea to do this for an ISP. They can't use corporate mentality to run the business. They the the ISP!! How many ports can they block? Today they block port 25, tomorrow port 110 and so on. Pirates, spammers, hijackers and so on will always find other ports. This would means blocking whole range of ports in the end.
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mytescocom
post Apr 7 2008, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE(asellus @ Mar 28 2008, 11:04 PM)
If you are just using e-mail client like Thunderbird/Eudora this will not affect you. Do you run a SMTP server?
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Hi,

Even if you use email clients like Outlook Express/ Thunderbird/ Eudora, you will still face this problem.
If you have outlook or thunderbird, when u define your email settings, you will see a setting for outgoing mail server. This is where port 25 will come into play.
When you configure for incoming mail server, you use pop3 or imap. Not SMTP.

I've already lodge a complaint/report to TM about this. We need more users to complain so that OUR voice can be heard!!


Added on April 7, 2008, 10:20 pm
QUOTE(rajulkabir @ Apr 7 2008, 06:47 PM)
To the contrary, I think it is a very good idea for them to do this. The vast majority of all spam comes from zombie PCs in people's homes that just make outbound connections on port 25.

That's a huge amount of traffic clogging TM's network, making everything slower for the rest of us. Not to mention the hassle that the spam causes.
*
So does this means if the car accident rate increases, we shud just reduce the highway speed limit to 50km/h?? Because the highway has many potholes, and the authority has no means to fixed the potholes, we conviniently introduce a speed limit reduction to everyone?? Come ON!!

Eventhough spammers uses port25, but there are also alot of legitimate users out there that uses port 25 for real business purposes.
There are many methods to combat spam, but TM is taking the shortcut by just blocking port25. They just have the convenience of assuming that port25 is meant only for email servers.

Ppl like me where my company email server is in the US, i rely on my email client to be able to send emails out via port 25.



This post has been edited by mytescocom: Apr 7 2008, 10:20 PM
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rajulkabir
post Apr 8 2008, 02:18 AM
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QUOTE(mytescocom @ Apr 7 2008, 10:14 PM)
So does this means if the car accident rate increases, we shud just reduce the highway speed limit to 50km/h?? Because the highway has many potholes, and the authority has no means to fixed the potholes, we conviniently introduce a speed limit reduction to everyone??

Of course. The most important thing about the roads is that they are safe.

It would be great to have safe, fast roads, but if they are unable to provide that, then safe slow roads are the next best thing.

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Eventhough spammers uses port25, but there are also alot of legitimate users out there that uses port 25 for real business purposes.

The spammers inconvenience millions of people every week and use a lot of resources.

I doubt there are more than 20 people in all of Malaysia who could make a good case that they "need" to use port 25. Their company mail servers should be accepting mail on port 587 which is the correct port for SMTP submission from end users. If the company mail servers are only accepting it on port 25 then they are misconfigured. The problem in this case is with the company running the mail server, not with TM.

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There are many methods to combat spam, but TM is taking the shortcut by just blocking port25.

I don't think you understand the reason for this block. It is to prevent compromised customer machines from sending spam elsewhere (99% of it goes to non-TMnet destinations). This is not about stopping spam to Streamyx customers, it's about stopping spam from them. There's not much else they can do along these lines, unless you want them to do as some other ISPs, and close your account down if they notice that your computer is infected.

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Ppl like me where my company email server is in the US, i rely on my email client to be able to send emails out via port 25.

My company email server is in the US too. I deliver send mail to it on port 587. I can send mail using TM's SMTP server. I can use a VPN to reach my company server on port 25. I can set up a redirector at the company to allow to use some other arbitrary port. There are many different solutions, most of them very easy.
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asellus
post Apr 8 2008, 03:13 AM
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QUOTE(mytescocom @ Apr 7 2008, 10:14 PM)
Hi,

Even if you use email clients like Outlook Express/ Thunderbird/ Eudora, you will still face this problem.
If you have outlook or thunderbird, when u define your email settings, you will see a setting for outgoing mail server. This is where port 25 will come into play.
When you configure for incoming mail server, you use pop3 or imap. Not SMTP.

I've already lodge a complaint/report to TM about this. We need more users to complain so that OUR voice can be heard!!

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You are so wrong about this. If you have your own SMTP server, you can use them to send e-mails. You are not restricted into using TMNut SMTP servers only. Do you really think TM will block third-party POP/SMTP e-mail providers? If they do I will go straight to MCMC and make a complaint.

It is when you have SMTP server using Streamyx dynamic IP address then you will have problems. Now, did you run a SMTP server at home? Did TMnut block usage of non-TMNut SMTP servers? For the latter, it seems that they don't. I have my own SMTP server, running to receive traffic at port 25, and if TMNut blocked me from using it, there will be hell to pay. But TMnut did not, so who am I to complain?

And yeah, I support TMNut move to block home SMTP servers from being operated.
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wKkaY
post Apr 8 2008, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE(mytescocom @ Apr 8 2008, 12:14 AM)
So does this means if the car accident rate increases, we shud just reduce the highway speed limit to 50km/h?? Because the highway has many potholes, and the authority has no means to fixed the potholes, we conviniently introduce a speed limit reduction to everyone?? Come ON!!
*

Your analogy doesn't apply in this case as it isn't a matter of bad infrastructure (highway with many potholes). It's lusers causing problems for the rest of us.


Added on April 8, 2008, 6:40 am
QUOTE(abubin @ Apr 7 2008, 08:59 PM)
It's not a good idea to do this for an ISP. They can't use corporate mentality to run the business. They the the ISP!! How many ports can they block? Today they block port 25, tomorrow port 110 and so on. Pirates, spammers, hijackers and so on will always find other ports. This would means blocking whole range of ports in the end.
*

That's a slippery slope argument. There's no basis for you to say that because today they block X, tomorrow they'll block Y. If they're going to block Y it's going to happen anyway.

What the beef is with TM should be is that they implemented it like cowboys! There wasn't advance notice when it was implemented and not just that, the block is applied inconsistently with some people facing it and some others not.


Added on April 8, 2008, 6:53 am
QUOTE(asellus @ Apr 8 2008, 05:13 AM)
And yeah, I support TMNut move to block home SMTP servers from being operated.
*

It's not as if home SMTP servers (those on dynamic IPs) have any real chance of reliable delivery these days anyway wink.gif
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abubin
post Apr 8 2008, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE(rajulkabir @ Apr 8 2008, 02:18 AM)
My company email server is in the US too. I deliver send mail to it on port 587. I can send mail using TM's SMTP server. I can use a VPN to reach my company server on port 25. I can set up a redirector at the company to allow to use some other arbitrary port. There are many different solutions, most of them very easy.
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Next, spammer with be using port 587 to spam. Virus/malware will be written to use port 587. Next, tmnet block port 587, then what?
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wKkaY
post Apr 8 2008, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE(abubin @ Apr 8 2008, 12:41 PM)
Next, spammer with be using port 587 to spam. Virus/malware will be written to use port 587. Next, tmnet block port 587, then what?
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That's easily solvable by mailserver admins - just configure their mailservers to reject mails from unauthenticated senders on port 587.
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rajulkabir
post Apr 9 2008, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE(abubin @ Apr 8 2008, 10:41 AM)
Next, spammer with be using port 587 to spam. Virus/malware will be written to use port 587. Next, tmnet block port 587, then what?
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As WK says, my server only allows you to send on port 587 after you have authenticated with username and password. I assume this is the case with most (or maybe all). So it's a totally different situation.

Port 25 is for server->server, port 587 is for user->server.
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mytescocom
post Apr 10 2008, 12:42 PM
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QUOTE(asellus @ Apr 8 2008, 03:13 AM)
You are so wrong about this. If you have your own SMTP server, you can use them to send e-mails. You are not restricted into using TMNut SMTP servers only. Do you really think TM will block third-party POP/SMTP e-mail providers? If they do I will go straight to MCMC and make a complaint.

It is when you have SMTP server using Streamyx dynamic IP address then you will have problems. Now, did you run a SMTP server at home? Did TMnut block usage of non-TMNut SMTP servers? For the latter, it seems that they don't. I have my own SMTP server, running to receive traffic at port 25, and if TMNut blocked me from using it, there will be hell to pay. But TMnut did not, so who am I to complain?

And yeah, I support TMNut move to block home SMTP servers from being operated.
*
Hi Asellus,

I think you do not know how SMTP operation works. Do you know that NOT only email server uses port 25 to send out emails? Email clients also uses port25 to send out emails back to their email servers.
email server to email server -port25, email client/user to email server can also use port 25.
Maybe there was a misunderstanding on the problem or you are not aware how email clients (outlook, thunderbird) works to sent emails back to their SMTP server.

I do not have an SMTP server at home. I'm only a user using Outlook Express to send emails back to my office email server in US. Previously my outlook clients uses port 25 for outgoing emails. Now i've changed it to use a different outgoing port. I'm forturnate my corporate email server supports an alternative port. For those that don't, they will have a tough time sending email out from a email client.

Please read and understand SMTP, SMTP auth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_T...ail_SMTP_server
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMTP-AUTH
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ozs
post Apr 10 2008, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(mytescocom @ Apr 10 2008, 12:42 PM)
Hi Asellus,

I think you do not know how SMTP operation works. Do you know that NOT only email server uses port 25 to send out emails? Email clients also uses port25 to send out emails back to their email servers.
email server to email server -port25,  email client/user to email server can also use port 25.
Maybe there was a misunderstanding on the problem or you are not aware how email clients (outlook, thunderbird) works to sent emails back to their SMTP server.

I do not have an SMTP server at home. I'm only a user using Outlook Express to send emails back to my office email server in US. Previously my outlook clients uses port 25 for outgoing emails. Now i've changed it to use a different outgoing port. I'm forturnate my corporate email server supports an alternative port. For those that don't, they will have a tough time sending email out from a email client.

Please read and understand SMTP, SMTP auth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_T...ail_SMTP_server
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMTP-AUTH
*
you're so wrong dude.. asellus was right..
yup you'll use port 25 for smtp.. we all know..
but from client you'll not be using port 25 for connecting to your mail server....
tmnet block all outbound smtp traffic
means all traffic from port 25..

i know you're really think when using email client u're using port 25..
play around with netstat while sending out mail then u know..
you're connecting to 25.. not from 25..

its same thing while u browsing..
did u really think u're using port 80 at your machine while browsing this forum(webserver)?..

This post has been edited by ozs: Apr 10 2008, 01:36 PM
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mytescocom
post Apr 13 2008, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE(ozs @ Apr 10 2008, 01:29 PM)
you're so wrong dude.. asellus was right..
yup you'll use port 25 for smtp.. we all know..
but from client you'll not be using port 25 for connecting to your mail server....
tmnet block all outbound smtp traffic
means all traffic from port 25..

i know you're really think when using email client u're using port 25..
play around with netstat while sending out mail then u know..
you're connecting to 25.. not from 25..

its same thing while u browsing..
did u really think u're using port 80 at your machine while browsing this forum(webserver)?..
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What i mean is outbound port 25. This means connecting to tcp port 25 on the email server.Please read the title of this topic.
email client (random port >1024) -----> internet ------> (port 25)email server.

What Asellus mean (as far as i interpret it) was he thought only email servers (MTA) uses outbound port25. What i was trying to relay the message is that email clients (outlook, thunderbird) also uses port 25 (outbound) to sent emails to mail servers.
So when TMnut blocks outbound port 25, this causes problems to email clients not only to those that host email servers.

Peace ..



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ell
post Jul 8 2008, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE(knightmare @ Apr 2 2008, 11:35 PM)
i've read in the forum guiding to solve this matter

go to your account settings....and change your email settings. change your smtpserver to smtp-proxy.tm.net.my and uncheck the 'my outgoing server requires authentication'. leave other settings remain at it is. and it will send your email out
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thank you for your tip bro.
I just found the solution after a months wondering why I cant send out my email outside my office and I thought it's may be my company server problem but the truth is TM's @ TM nut f**king S**t problem.

Why TM still can't realize that we PAY them for the services (event its a small amount, its still money isn't it). If they cant provide good services why they become an ISP, or because they exist just want to TIPU ORANG. What a lazy TM mad.gif

This post has been edited by ell: Jul 8 2008, 09:25 PM
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