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Walter Liew
post Sep 20 2012, 06:38 AM

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QUOTE(triads418 @ Mar 9 2008, 11:29 PM)
my proton wira aeroback 1.5 auto have this problem recently...i start the car for a while then the engine stall
so i went to mechanic and ask him to clean the throttle body, check the air filter...then when he put everything back and tune it with a computer device he said the circuit board in the throttle body going to spoil already...so he advised me to wait until it complete gone then change a new one....

my question is which circuit board he's referring to ? i ask him izzit to throttle body that he clean b4 that...see this picture
http://www.hitachi-hap.com/products/Control_Units/etcu.jpg
or something else bcos i didnt see any circuit board on it

if that's the one i want to know the price range for a reliable/performance brand other than proton...

personally i dun feel like waiting for the thing to die out...so i want to change it asap
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Added on September 20, 2012, 6:57 am
QUOTE(Walter Liew @ Sep 20 2012, 06:38 AM)
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Hi,

I am also using the wira 1.5 auto that perhaps uses the same part as yours.

I had problem with this throttle for many years and had been keep on changing it. I had came to a point where I was
truly not convince with foreman who are not electronically sound.

I came to a point I started to check on it myself.

So I started to use an electronic scope to diagnose all the throttle pin and all signal goes according as expected. But
occasionally the system still failed.

Finally I manage to figure out that the ECU (Electronic Control Unit) will stop controlling the throttle body once it loses
any signal from the throttle body. It will only control it back once you restart your engine.

Let me share with you how it works.

1. Once to turn ON the ignition key (without starting) , you should hear a SOUND like 'he he ta ta ta tak'. This is the
most important clue telling you that the ECU is calibrating the throttle body opening valve angle. Try again you
will find it happen everytime.
2. If step 1 happens each time, this means that your ECU and throttle are communicating and it should work.
3. Start your engine NOW. Then after a while try turn ON the air-con. You should see the RPM rises (abt 0.5sec)
before you aircon physically turn ON. This means that the ECU is working properly.
4. When you turn OFF, the aircon, the RPM should rise first and then drop back to the point when you starting your
car.
5. Slightly engage the gear (ie N to D) making the lamp D ON without physically lock the gearbox, you again should
see the RPM rise. Repeat doing this you will find the RPM rises each time you try to engage the gear.

All the above are important clues telling that you throttle system is working.

As I know for WIRA(older model) it can still work without throttle body. You can try to unplug the connector to the
throttle body. Your car should start and the engine will not die off.

The engine only dies when the throttle try to work but work wrongly.

Note: Wander why I knew all this??? I am an electronic designer who write MCU programs and fully understand
how the program should behave. Meantime I am in the process of designing a throttle analyser hoping to
relief many foreman ignorance on this item.

Thanks.
Liew


Added on September 20, 2012, 9:55 am
QUOTE(usus @ Mar 28 2008, 10:33 AM)
thanks for the feedback...
the good thing is that no problemo with idling.
But stepper value is 0 always. After cleaning TB & induction box, my car maintains 900rpm no A/C. 300-400rpm on A/C & no fluctuate, fortunately. I'll just attempt clean stepper motor later on see any good results.
perdana one is same with FTO? 63mm?
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Hi,

I am Liew.

'But stepper value is 0 always. After cleaning TB & induction box, my car maintains 900rpm no A/C. 300-400rpm on A/C & no fluctuate, fortunately.'

The symptom above is nothing more than telling you that your car throttle body totally fail to operate.
A good throttle will keep your car rpm constant at (probably 800..900rpm) regardless of aircon On/Off.

However your car should still run but just not performing stable and engine shaking only.

Try to get a throttle fix up but make sure the shop give you warranty (i.e 3 to 6 months) otherwise just live with it.
Thanks.
Regards.
Liew


Added on September 20, 2012, 10:09 am
QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Aug 15 2008, 01:20 PM)
dun need to drill hole lah... doh.gif
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Don't drill hole, it is not the right approach.

The car throttle work to save for fuel at all condition and not only for aircon. Most foreman told u it is just for 'aircon' but in actual fact it is for everyting.

Among them are
1: When you engage gear, the engine rpm increase to prepare you with more power.
2: When you turn ON the headlamp, the rpm also increase.
3: More saving, when you car comes to a complete stop, your rpm reduces further. It is great saving in traffic jam
condition.

Using traditionally air suction valve to regulate for air con is 30 to 40 years technology and it is rather unstable
Thanks.
Liew


Added on September 20, 2012, 10:16 am
QUOTE(usus @ Mar 24 2008, 03:14 PM)
tumpang thread...
if stepper motor is not working, does it have any effect on the car?
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Some car can work without this servo motor but some cannot live without it. For newer car it is a must.

Thanks.
Liew


Added on September 20, 2012, 10:20 am
QUOTE(viqq @ Aug 17 2008, 02:12 PM)
I heard this is a common problem among wira/satria owners.

I myself having throttle body problems too. The gear inside the throttle body broke and after changed still the same problem which is the RPM go up and down even though I didn't press the accelerator. So mechanic asked me to change throttle body. I got myself a 1.5 model for my 1.3 model which the mechanic said should be compatible. That throttle body didn't come with a gasket so the mechanic made 1 himself.

Ok so everything went well, the RPM doesn't go up and down anymore, but the engine will subsequently die in a sudden. No warning no anything, just die. Also after changing the throttle body so many problems jor.. Even my CHECK ENGINE lights are all gone. Stupid mechanic ar~~ More problems after changing throttle body.
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I sound like you get a mechanic who knows nothing about electronic. He is just take you for a ride.
All this need knowledge and experience and not simply swap with compatible.

The engine ECU and throttle has to match, otherwise it will not perform as expected.
Regards,
Liew


Added on September 20, 2012, 10:31 am
QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Jan 18 2011, 06:09 PM)
nope u dont need to change ur throttle body... if u dont wanna spend so much servicing ur ISC gears, use FICD... as for ur unstable idling, remove ur throttle body and clean it thoroughly... change new throttle body gasket to prevent manifold leak... check and replace (if necessary) the plastic idle screw nipple...
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Take note that the throttle mechanism without the motor or gear working , can also ramp up and down.


This can happen if your idling setting is too high and can be nothing to do with the electronics.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Walter Liew: Sep 20 2012, 10:31 AM
solai
post Mar 28 2019, 02:28 PM

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Sometimes faulty main fan motor causes erratic idle. Try disconnect main fan motor and see if idle return to normal. If so, you know what to do.
Gerryganoo P
post Sep 10 2019, 09:25 AM

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Hi gang,
I’m experiencing the same as mentioned on another thread.
Rough idle, almost stall on startup, stalling on deceleration. If I touch the accelerator when started, erratic idle- high revs. Seems to drive normally despite the idle trouble.

I have replaced the following:

Valve adjustment
OEM map sensor
PCV valve
OEM Surge tank sensor
Air & fuel filters
Temp sensor (big one on thermostat housing)
OEM O2 sensor
NGK plugs

Good fuel flow & 40psi
Crank sensor checked, (even though engine starts)
Throttle body cleaned.
Injectors checked.

No change in symptoms as yet.
Usual vibration when thermostat fan or a/c runs with no effect on idle.

Awaiting new OEM throttle body and OEM VDO spark plug leads, hoping the new throttle body rectifies the issue, update when fitted.
Gerryganoo P
post Sep 10 2019, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(solai @ Mar 28 2019, 04:28 PM)
Sometimes faulty main fan motor causes erratic idle. Try disconnect main fan motor and see if idle return to normal. If so, you know what to do.
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I will try this while I wait for new throttle body 👍🏼
Gerryganoo P
post Sep 11 2019, 07:12 AM

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QUOTE(Gerryganoo @ Sep 10 2019, 11:26 AM)
I will try this while I wait for new throttle body 👍🏼
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No change when disconnected
abubin
post Sep 11 2019, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(Gerryganoo @ Sep 10 2019, 09:25 AM)
Hi gang,
I’m experiencing the same as mentioned on another thread.
Rough idle, almost stall on startup, stalling on deceleration. If I touch the accelerator when started, erratic idle- high revs. Seems to drive normally despite the idle trouble.

I have replaced the following:

Valve adjustment
OEM map sensor
PCV valve
OEM Surge tank sensor
Air & fuel filters
Temp sensor (big one on thermostat housing)
OEM O2 sensor
NGK plugs

Good fuel flow & 40psi
Crank sensor checked, (even though engine starts)
Throttle body cleaned.
Injectors checked.

No change in symptoms as yet.
Usual vibration when thermostat fan or a/c runs with no effect on idle.

Awaiting new OEM throttle body and OEM VDO spark plug leads, hoping the new throttle body rectifies the issue, update when fitted.
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Wow..why do you change all these things without first finding out the issue? How much did it cost for those parts and workmanship? Over 1k? BTW, what car?

Have you checked the ignition coil and the cable? IACV?

Gerryganoo P
post Sep 12 2019, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Sep 11 2019, 06:47 PM)
Wow..why do you change all these things without first finding out the issue? How much did it cost for those parts and workmanship? Over 1k? BTW, what car?

Have you checked the ignition coil and the cable? IACV?
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2005 VDO Jumbuck, process of illumination.
The map sensor had a broken nipple, so replaced.
The mechanic did the valves, to improve manifold pressure from 13 to 15, and coolant sensor because of cold start idle.

I replaced the pcv, plugs, leads, air/fuel/oil filter when servicing. The surge tank sensor clip was broken so replaced also.

Has had a used throttle body fitted, but a friend said a new one fixed his idle issues.

The mechanics answer was to send ecu, wiring and keys off to be checked, as he exhausted all avenues (swapping parts of his Jumbuck to see if it changed anything) he returned it with no real change. $300AU

The first new throttle body I got was damaged in shipping, so I am waiting for another one.
Gerryganoo P
post Sep 23 2019, 08:36 AM

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Update

Have replaced throttle body with a brand new one from proton, and no change to the issue.

Also installed some 8mm NGK leads and a new denso fuel pressure regulator.

It’s truely got me stumped. I might have to try a new mechanic, I’ve found one that does a lot of newer model Mitsubishi mods/servicing, get the coil checked and the intake manifold for vacuum leak. Hopefully they have the diagnostic equipment needed..
abubin
post Sep 23 2019, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(Gerryganoo @ Sep 23 2019, 08:36 AM)
Update

Have replaced throttle body with a brand new one from proton, and no change to the issue.

Also installed some 8mm NGK leads and a new denso fuel pressure regulator.

It’s truely got me stumped. I might have to try a new mechanic, I’ve found one that does a lot of newer model Mitsubishi mods/servicing, get the coil checked and the intake manifold for vacuum leak. Hopefully they have the diagnostic equipment needed..
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Thanks for the update. It is really interesting to see what is the problem and why it is so hard to diagnose. Hope you are able to find out the culprit.
Gerryganoo P
post Sep 25 2019, 02:43 PM

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Can anybody explain what this part is?

user posted image
user posted image
speedy3210
post Sep 25 2019, 04:04 PM

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that looks like a purge valve. Didn't know it grew so big in the VDO version of Wira/Jumbuck.
Gerryganoo P
post Sep 25 2019, 04:11 PM

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[quote=Gerryganoo,Sep 25 2019, 04:43 PM]
Can anybody explain what this part is?

Emissions Vapour Purge Valve? I think it could be faulty
Gerryganoo P
post Sep 25 2019, 04:16 PM

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When I disconnect it from the throttle body the revs rise, and if I restrict the vacuum to normal idle and blip the accelerator, it doesn’t get the idle dip..
Gerryganoo P
post Oct 3 2019, 11:04 AM

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Now at the mechanics, going to try a replacement ecu..
ThunderGod_Cid
post Oct 3 2019, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(Gerryganoo @ Sep 25 2019, 02:43 PM)
Can anybody explain what this part is?

user posted image
user posted image
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get this replaced upfront if the ECU test is gonna cost u any money
Gerryganoo P
post Oct 4 2019, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(ThunderGod_Cid @ Oct 3 2019, 11:32 PM)
get this replaced upfront if the ECU test is gonna cost u any money
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Said he’s only going to bill me if it works
ThunderGod_Cid
post Oct 4 2019, 03:53 PM

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[quote=Gerryganoo,Oct 4 2019, 11:26 AM]
Said he’s only going to bill me if it works
Cool
Gerryganoo P
post Oct 11 2019, 05:23 PM

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Update,
4G15 VDO rough idle/stalling, and idle dip fix.
Picked my Jumbuck up from the mechanic, The Checkered Flag in Nundah Qld, and she’s running awesome!

They replaced the ECU with a used one,
AUD$200, AUD$80 labour and the symptoms are all gone.

A member of the team who previously worked for Proton in Australia said they used to replace the ECU’s all the time, and that’s usually the case other than the throttle body.

I’m so stoked, now I can have my Wildcat headers fitted with a 2” exhaust system and a hi flow cat, and Bob’s your auntie.

Not fazed at having replaced the other sensors etc, just gives me peace of mind that they won’t need doing for the future.
Thrust
post Oct 12 2019, 05:22 AM

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A very common Wira problem. Many owners will install a FICD to stabilize the idle rpm.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rfL3C0-pDt4
Gerryganoo P
post Oct 25 2019, 06:51 AM

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Here’s a link for those of you who’d like to see the finished results..
https://youtu.be/bthlg49PK9g

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