pretty much what im gonna said has been said. but ill go for it anyways.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about "funny". And anime/comic relief whatever is up to the directors to put. Its probably to juxtapose the viewer between the "happy times" and the emo "war times". Have you watched Jarhead? Its a war movie too...war in Iraq. Is it funny? Hell yes. Is it serious and emo? Yes too. Is it a bad movie for doing this? Hell no.

Actually yes. The Transformers G1-tards are another buncha idiots. They think G1 is all that....go back memory lane and rewatch Transformers G1. You think that thing is good? It sucks ass. I can't believe I watched this and liked this while I was young. Brings me back to my "fanboys blinded by nostalgia" post.

And yes even as a normal action flick, I was one of the few that hated the live action transformers. And i had no G1 bias even.



I happen to like some UC shows but I don't BLINDLY like them ALL.

Wrong.The name is : Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory. Check it here on wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Suit_G...Stardust_Memory

And from the picture the STARDUST MEMORY is bloody big font compared to the small 0083 so for someone like me who isn't a gundamtard, Stardust Memory suffice as a title rather than the vague 0083 year name. Don't have to lash back with a condescending tone that I don't know the anime merely because I don't know the FULL name. Its not like you did either.

And yes i love Stardust Memory. Kawamori designed mecha, OVA quality script and animation, GAR antagonist, what's there not to like?

I watched all the notable ones. I just haven't watched V Gundam, F-91 and ZZ.

I dislike MSG and Zeta though gundamtards think they are the best. (Despite the 2 shows being commercial failures when they were released)

personally i cant see how plot is suffering when they re-did the gundam wing style multi-POV storytelling over the conventional 1 hero rapes main guy rapes all story-telling. while i havent being involved with any UC gundams, but no matter how you see it, old story is old, but to each its own on this. you may like your UC, with the one hero and all, and the classic char bad-ass with amuro ray w/e, but personally, i would prefer something thats "refreshing" and new. thats how anime/stories/plots/movies ETC ETC gets better, by having their bars raised, trying out something new. if it fails, too bad, if it doesnt, you get a whole new experience of enjoyment and that raises the bar yet again.




now, i dont know why patrick being "insignificant" would even be a huge deal because lets face it, in a war based setting storyline, if your gonna give every damn person significance in the plot you'll have a whole lot to tell that will prolly drag the damn episodes to like 30-40, and that said, you'll be having a damn storybook instead of the "gundam actions" where every one love, and is one of the main reasons why people adore/like gundams. (at least for me, i certainly dont watch gundams to hear people storytelling to no end over the course of 20-40 episodes)

Soma peires on the other hand, i dont know if your even watching the whole gundam 00 series thoroughly/seriously, or your just too blinded by the critisism that your gonna put out from the very beginning of the series. (fair enough it starts out a little slow for gundam 00, but the way you've been posting since first ep until now has all been negative posts.) I mean, we all know shes related with the HRL secret super soldiers division, and that shes "Mai". Which in turn was mentioned in earlier episodes briefly, during the super soldiers part with the main focus on allelujah. While not thorough, its not "never elaborated" either.

personally, i dont see whats the big deal of "if its not significant in season 1 but season 2, save it for season2". take gundam seed or the other gundam series for example, they ALL run for around and/or over 50 episodes. Why is it ok for those while it isnt ok for gundam 00 to take a break and with that given time, they can maintain the quality or even raise the bar over the course. (which is what happens from episode 1-25, every episode kept getting better and better, EVEN the recap episode wasnt so bad compared to other anime or gundam's recap episodes) if you ask me, i would say its all biased critics.



first half of the series its pretty much "wasting screen time" as many claims, or just comedy relief, but as it progresses throughout the series and especially the epilogue, im fairly surprised you can even claim that they are just "comedy bits". Kinue/Kinoe? played a role in revealing CB's agenda/truth, while in the story perspective itself it didnt reveal anything, but as the viewers perspective, im even more surprised in you saying that there is no point to have her around at all.


admittedly the last ep was a lil rushed, and it doesnt give the old "GAR"ham feel everyone adores, and worse, a mask. But all in all, the played his part in the plot, and paved the way for season2, while it isnt perfect, it isnt entirely a bad thing either. But again, opinions wary as im personally not so much of a fan of graham.


With the main plot of laguna/ragna/lagna (however you wanna spell it as afaik theres no official name source in this) harvey, and alejandro corner, with ali al sarches, i cant see how they are a complete mess. Again, if ur so biased to ignore the plot entirely, i will just leave it at that.



Im not sure if its just your preference in art or your just too used to the old dulled art of UC gundams/old classic gundams, but double 00 its in HD, and obviously they are gonna take advantage of it. While for the most part its what you claimed, but personally I cant see the "clean-ness" on episode 1 when setsuna was a young boy in a warzone, or the gundam battles for that matter. and most certainly, not cheerful. The only thing that matches your claimings are the saji/louise scenes when they are in the city/space station, but i mean, lets be honest here, the entire world of gundam 00 isnt a war-torn situation, its a cold war, not everywhere around the world is fighting, to make those scenes "un-clean" and "war-like" is just too unrealistic.

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Added on April 2, 2008, 11:31 amim definitely all in for that

they could've made a much more epic battle for graham, and even put somemore footage out before the epic epilogue

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Added on April 2, 2008, 11:33 amas ive mentioned somewhere around this forum/thread, i rate an entire anime with almost aspect be it graphics or sound, and if im gonna watch the old series, i will critisize it as heavily as you are because, its an old anime and the graphics/sounds are gonna suck, or the fact that me watching multiple episodes of that said entire episode being about people talking back and forth for the sake of storyline having 0 action.

to be fair, they are old animes, and thats that. comparing pentium 3 against a core 2 duo is just, futile.

again, to each its own perhaps.

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Added on April 2, 2008, 11:38 amagain, whats needed to be said is said and done, but just to briefly going off topic a bit in regards to transformer live-action:

personally, i think its a good show, if there were NO TRANSFORMER ANIME OR W/E to begin with, its a decently epic show that gets prolly 8-9 outta me. but if i were to compare it with the original transformer where i loved a lot when i was a kid, i totally, utterly, hate it.

thats why ive ALWAYS mentioned especially in this thread. no point to really compare things all the time, you'll prolly enjoy a particular anime/movie/show etc more if you just watch it for being itself and not being shadowed by something else. some simple figure speak, would you enjoy a television series more with you just watching it, or having someone standing in front of you blocking half of your tv. if you can get that good, if not, forget it.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 2 2008, 11:38 AM

wow wow wow! I agree and also disagree with wat u ppl said! But in the end each person has their own feeling and thoughts about the show itself! U may or may not agree with all of them! So no point arguing!

By the way i am more looking forward to MS Igloo next OVA! This anime of gundam really show true war story! Good for hardcore war show (ALI wannabe)!

Was Jarhead good at all?? no.. Its was only average.. so therefore..Its doesnt justify the whole comedy/emo routine..

Comic relief isnt bad.. its just fillers but Gundam 00 has only 25 episode , Can they Afford fillers NO!,,



The special effect wasn't Michael Bay doing at all.. Its was all done by Industrial Light and Magic.. So if you agree Transfomer live action wasn't good then why are u siding Michael for??



So now u run to Wiki cos you had no idea for a second what was the name of the anime...

I did said Last Blitz of Zeon.. Its was the movie compilation If you ever bother to read though the link given.. instead of just shoving it at my face to make me look stupid..



So technically you pretty much only watch like 3/4 of the series so.. How claim that UCfanboys are bias if you havent watch all of em..

Quazacolt

You keep saying iam bias bias bias bias.. And your point doesnt even backed it up...



... Unique doesnt means its good.. So how this proves my review is wrong that the plot isnt good??.. You just saying U think its good and tell me i think its bad.

... well i wouldnt mind having a 30-40 episode to cover everyone and everything..

Wrong everyone doesnt love Gundam just for action.. If like this CCA and War in Pocket is pretty screwed.. If you cant take so much dialouge and plot.. When you are just no better from those CE fanboys.. Does everyone thinks like you?? How does everyone represent you??.. Are u them??

Before you make any point you say i am being bias and blinded by criticism.. When people already booed episode 1 ,i already said to wait and see how episode progress... I only started to start critism only at halfway the series..
So Soma introduce us HRL.. Hallelujah is also one too.. Do we need 2??.. Also we know allelujah knows her.. So.. now what next? .. So you also point out what i was mentioning So .. I not getting are u agreeing with me or you disagreeing with me...



... You dont see it a big deal.. So you think the quality of the series is actually responding to fewwer episode??So quality for you is just graphics and action?? thats it?. The reason why Gundam 00 dont have much recap COS THEY CANT AFFORD it.. Well Code Geass had like 3 recap and look how they f***ed up their timeslot.. so you end with saying iam bias without proving anything..



Kinue for viewer perspective.. Do we need a chara in the anime to represent us??.. Since we are at it Why dont we introduce a chara for every anime so he can represent our clueless self on telling WTF is going on.



Lagna.. hmm He runs trains company.. So Lagna in for 1-2 episode deliever GNX then bang he toast.. yeah that nice.. We already know who alenjdro in advance long time ago along with ali.. So .. How does this say its not a complete mess..

So overall you say iam bias and blinded by critism, In with little fact to prove your point and you go around saying I dont think its bad I dont think its awful.. So what the whole point of the post..

You just dont like me criticizing the series that you enjoy??

This post has been edited by redeye84: Apr 2 2008, 12:50 PM

if alenjdro and lagna already betray CB in season 1, wonder if there any traitor still exist in CB especially among the observer..

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Added on April 2, 2008, 2:12 pmgundam live-actino has been announced..
here..
tell me if this post is a repost...

This post has been edited by kyon22: Apr 2 2008, 02:12 PM

i thought they said it was an April Fool Joke!

confirm, its an april fool joke....
got pawned again on 2nd april..

wow~...No point arguing over it everyone does has different view but y u have to like pick a argument here =_=~ To me, it's kinda good series, with some fresh ideas =/... + i actually watch gundam 00 (although beginning i refused to watch it due to no MASKED guy and ahh, the Op2 =_= Addictive des~).. and ooh yeah, gundam 00 is not 25 eps only...there is even a Season 2 at Oct. Right After CG s2 finish airing.

Good or average show...that's up to you. IMO the purpose of juxtaposition was done well.



I said i hated TF live action. When did i side mr. michael bay? Or you just reading what you want me to say?

Cuz you were being an arrogant weeboo and didn't wanna confirm that 0083 was indeed Stardust Memories so I had to refer to Mr. Wiki. I no idea what is "Last Blitz of Zeon". I only seen the OVAs. Like I said i'm not a gundam-tard. Although I'm a Macross-tard i don't speak to everyone as if they are Macross-tards as well and expect them to know my lingo and series specific terms and names. Geez.




The UC fanboys don't even like the 1/4 shows I didn't watch. So if the fanboys hate them, how do you expect me, a non-fanboy to watch them? Since MSG and Zeta are the defining series for UC fanbois...i used that as the yardstick. And i chose my words well...i said "probably" and "maybe" its the cause of their bias. Nostalgia.

I already commented that your review is over-critical and you're expecting some great work of art from an anime originally designed to sell model kits which is kinda . Well you have your opinions so that's that. So don't wanna say anymore on this. I'm just annoyed that you pull personal attacks on my opinions and insulting my knowledge and intellligence.

ANyway......

But on the comment by Quazecotl on the issue of longer production duration quality, it does hold water. Sunrise has decided to increase production time for their anime to 1-2 seasons rather than one big bang long season. Have you seen one instance of recycled animation in 00? None! In older long gundam shows, you see it all the time from MSG, Zeta , Wing, Seed and Destiny. Today's anime if you watch anime with recycled animation, its usually mean low budget, time constraints and overall low quality. With the break in between , they are able to animate more so each battle feels more unique and not like "Escape from enemy of the week, defend main carrier from enemy of the week". Even with this time stretch, the direction and storytelling is better and doesn't feel so "forced" and "filler" as if just to make the series longer. Example, lets have Kamille Bidan defend the Argama from the enemy again and lets introduce some new robots to sell model kits while we're at it and the enemy gets a hand chopped off, retreats to fight another day. (which feels like half the episodes were like that)

btw chill lar wolfx ...No point arguing with ppl like him

I find it a norm in this thread! Every 5-10 pages they will be another argument! So let it be let it be! Or else no call gundam thread!

If you arent such a huge gundam fan then why throw me all your doubts and say iam being overly bias critical, .. If you arent into the whole Gundam saga.

You had wiki with you so.. go in and take a look.. instead of just linking it... Well i assumed you knew cos u sound like you know all about Gundam for a moment there...

Well for Macross.. hey When Macross fans were going all WTF with Macross Zero ending, Do i go in and say Everyone is being overly bias with old macross anime NO... cos i dont have much knowledge of macross and just going in the doubt people is dumb..

UCfanboys doesnt like F91 and Victory??.. are you sure about this.. If they did Tomino would be free from his Gundam prison and TurnA wont be invented at all.

Well.. MSG and Zeta used as yardstick?? How can 2 Tv series can be used to represent entire UC... I did wrote about the various fans of Gundam. And have to understand that MSG and Zeta people are Tomino elitist and not UC fanboys.

Well all Gundam has some intention to sell models but only the todays mainstream gundam that have model sales govern the entire series. Its like it doesnt matther if anything make sense as long as we have gundam its fine..

.. hmmm now you saying i insulted and attacked you?? well i apologizes if i what i said was to harsh

Well its true shorter duration show does make plot less repetitive thats why i stick on OVA and movie complilation over TV series.

so like, was there any part in the quote of my post mentioning that your review is "WRONG WRONG WRONG"? but shoving off all sort of rasional pointers believing that uc is like the only gundam series out there isnt any right either. if you think im just saying i think its good and telling you that you think its bad, arent YOU doing the same to EVERYONE ELSE?



so a 80+ episode lengthy gundam novel on ur tv. whenever the producers and all decided that its possible to happen, let me know about it, until then, im cool with the standard cramping up of series to fit a general appeal.

ill requote myself:

1) let me ask you, if there were NO FIGHTING NO ACTION AT ALL in gundam, would you watch it? (considering its war and all and thats impossible lmao)
2) aside that, i did mentioned that its one of the main reasons why people like gundam, not the only reason
3) mind stop putting words in my mouth claiming that i said me = everyone? i did said AT LEAST for me, in a personal point of view, i dont watch gundams just for the sake of storyline. i do like gundams with good storyline, but i watch for other reasons too. in other words, i demand a good balance. eg: AWESOME graphics, but plot shittier than a 5 year old kindergarden story = no. AWESOME plot, even more interesting than an encyclopedia book, but graphics is worse than a 5 year old kindergarden artbook = no.

my point being with soma, allelujah and hrl is that they are significant, and they play an important role throughout the anime. im pretty much disagreeing with you that they are insignificant and should be replaced with something else, had they not been in the anime we would prolly never know jack about HRL and the whole super soldiers deal. (though ironically you were b****ing a lot about lack of elaborated plots at the same time)




personally i think the series is actually responding to the fewer episodes. In case you havent noticed, comparing to the previous gundam series (like you guys always love to do so), its BLOATED with a lot of pointless scenes/dorama/shallow plots, and worse, repeated copy-pasta scenes such as the battle scenes etc.

as i said, i demand a balance of good everything, not just action, not just plot, not just graphics. so again, mind not putting words in my mouth? to each its own in what they prefer in their gundam series, but shoving your preference into others aint so right in my book.

honestly speaking, if they wanna shove in recaps in 00, they could easily do so. if you just STOP THINKING about gundam 00 being 25 episode and consider it a 52+ episode combining season1 and 2, they could just fill in 2-4 recaps and what not there and then. 25 episodes is already have a series (using previous traditions) and theres only ONE recap episode. just that alone its quite a big improvement making room for so many other better things.

dont see how that isnt proving anything.



and dont you think its a lil contradicting when most novels/anime/movies does that? think of it as a narrator, why have one when a viewer can just watch the damn thing?



Does every damn character needs to have a leading role in anything? you could always consider lagna a mere tool (which he is) to distribute the GN-X and once that purpose is served hes disposable. The thrones are also something similiar, except they held more of a role in terms of executing lagna's own plans and agendas, or rather alejandro's agendas. how is THAT a complete mess then? probably personal opinons in this so ill just leave this at that as well.

Lets just put it this way, what you're accusing me, in reflection you're doing pretty much the same thing. While you find my posts have little fact to prove my point, in which i clearly do not find so as my posts are pointing how your post are in contradiction of whats actually happening in gundam 00. perhaps i take gundam 00 a lil too seriously and see the whole storyline/plot much clearer than you? or perhaps your just being biased as i claimed, who knows.

just to set things straight, i dont mind people critisizing the series that i enjoy, movies or animes w/e. what i do mind is when their critics are biased or are in contradiction with the actual content they are critisizing. eg: "gundam 00 plot is zero", which is obviously false.

I just said you were overly critical with 00. I never said you were bias for UC. I'm not even sure if you are a UC fanboy until this conversation. But I did mention there were UC-fanboys who loved trashing AU stuff due to their biasness. Re-read my posts PROPERLY.

Well it felt like you were being elitist and insulting my ignorance so I had to jab u back with wiki.

Macross Zero is in the same timeline and universe of the original. 00 isn't since its AU. So you can't go in and say overly bias whatever even if u wanted to. But macross hardcore weebooos tend to swallow everything kawamori gives them, even Mac7. (like me... )

Yeap. Considering that F91 was cut short from its original planned broadcast which resulted with "WTF" story and Tomino himself hating V-Gundam and how his mental health wasn't quite right during its production. (due to pressure from Bandai/Sunrise)

Just like how 3 Star Wars movies is used to represent the whole universe until Lucas decided to add more side stories, tv series, video games etc. But people still refer to the 3 movies rather than all these other new stuff. So yes i'd say UC is defined by MSG and Zeta.

Yes. Google it. I think even Starghazzer (can't remember if it was him) knows about the power of toy marketing and how it affected the anime production of SEED and Destiny.

Apology accepted.

1)Well if its like a Technical Documetary.. hell why not..
2)Well you did said Everyone and me pretty close toghter let me requote u..



3)Read number 2.. words wasnt added.. you said it urself.... Instead of having plot and action being compromise one another why not have both?

As for Soma.. I said Allelujah alone can represent HRL super human..

I did said CE is crap.. and i did said it was better than CE..

If you dont like my review.. well then i cant do anything about it...

Well i doubt the next 25 episode will cover anything that season 1 left behind.. they are just going to move on and new plot to be created.



Is Kinue a narrator?? yes or no??



So you just evaded the whole throne issue and now saying i want Lagna to play a bigger role..

I think you just like Gundam 00 alot.. and see me as typical Ucfanboys bashing other series..

Then u said u dont mind people criticizing the anime u love?? earlier on you felt offended on my post??..

bah enough is enough... I though this would lead to some thoughful dicussion but it turn out to flame war..... I guess somethings arent mean to be debated at all...

1) gundam sure as hell isnt a technical documentary
2) because assumingly gundam action is always there and it is ONE OF THE MANY REASONS people watch gundam for. so personally i think its fair to include gundam actions for everyone.
3) all in all your still just relentlessly biting at how the post was made and not the actual content itself, for shame. but whats needed to be said is all said and done, no point to beat on the dead horse further.



again, its not that im not liking your review, but as wolf said, when your review is just too negative/biased and having so many contradictions to the actual anime itself, no way im gonna let it by. its like how metro is reporting anime = cartoon lucah. you gonna accept that?

whether season2 will cover what season1 left off, its up to season 2 to decide so i wont even elaborate it until 6 months later.


you just dont get my example do you? if no then i wont even bother anymore



thrones were deployed and under command by lagna, how could i be evading it at all?

if you want my honest words - yes i like gundam 00 a lot because its no way like the old classics/previous gundams, and yes i do see you as a typical ucfanboy bashing any other gundams out there. but does that mean i have to go fanboy vs fanboy and end up in a flamewar? honestly it takes both hands to make a clap, if you know what i mean.

and as i said many many times before, i really dont mind you critisizing gundam00 to no end, but when your being too utterly biased and being ignorant of whats actually happening and just twist it to what YOU see happening, i dont let go of that.

again, takes both hands to make a clap, hope you realize that.

Damn it, it's going overboard guys...

wolfx and quazacolt... I have no idea why both of you cannot accept redeye's and even my views about 00's weak points, even though both of you may enjoy that show. It's not as if we are critising it for the sake of bashing nor are we critising it because it was a totally horrible wreck; it's just that 00 is NOT a perfect anime as you guys might think. In fact, we did mention about 00's strong points too. Credit will be given when due, same as criticisms.

You guys have your perceptions about 00, we have ours. As long as we have made our stand clear that will be enough, no one is going to change the others' minds so why go on and on countering each and every sentence? If you think redeye's review is too negative so be it, he has his reasons for stating so and they are not meaningless reasons.

Not that I'm being overly personal or anything, and my regrets if they sound so as it was never intended as such; but maybe it's time to remove 00 from that holy pedestal. There will be pros and cons comments, there's no need to counter every part as long as it makes sense. After all, no one person thinks alike in everything.

Maybe you guys can come up with your own reviews and share your thoughts, not only on 00 but also other series. After all this is a generalised gundam thread, not limited to 00 anyway.

Peace be with us all.
Or suffer a colony drop.

Oh well, remember the fake Belthorchika Anime poster? Here's a Unicorn version of it, albeit not as well made.


This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Apr 2 2008, 04:59 PM

Then what's the point of debates/parliaments/protests/wars if everyone can accept everyone's views?

Anyway I accepted everyone's views on pros and cons but not agree with the way the series was critiqued.

To put it bluntly, try putting that "review" out on a credible review site like rottentomatoes.com. Nobody, not even the people who dislike gundam 00 will accept it. In other words, you don't review a John Woo movie the same way you would review a Stanley Kubrick movie. And over here was a reviewer that expected Stanley Kubrick but he was instead given a John Woo.

The only pedestal that i put 00 on was its the best AU series to date. I didn't say its the greatest anime evar yet.

Even rotten tomatoes have polarising comments too for every movie, so that's not a good example. I read both good and bad reviews on rottentomatoes regarding movies that I've watched, then I make my own judgment on it no matter people agree or not with me. I don't expect everyone to have the same wavelength as I do anyway; we're all different individuals with different perspectives.

You may enjoy your gundams as an action flick, we may want something more serious. Or the other way round, it doesn't matter. For you it may be the best AU, I disagree yet I can respect that.

Anyway, my point is that we all have our own reasons of liking/disliking 00 and seriously this issue is not going to end. So why bother keeping the debate on and on and on? Let's stop the endless pages of counter-posting shall we? There's so much more in Gundam to be discussed and shared about.