For the whole Gundam 00 Series ......
I felt sad to Tierra Edye because he can't use his VEDA skill on his gundam like last time he using Nadleeh control those idoits Throne

And the gundam Sevaree looks fat and ugly (Excluding the weapeons) than Virtue...... hope he dun comes out an Anubis Gundam as Nadleeh LoL (because his back gundam head looks like an Anubis during inactive)

at last somebody agreed with me..

but I'm suspicious with saji, he was seen talking to sergei in the preview or sergei finally have doubt about A-LOL?..

i would predict sergei to go against A-laws one day but this is too soon...
so my best bet is that sergei will join A-laws after the meeting or sergei will help saji find louise...

Gato is no doubt better than Kou as a pilot... but like I said in Gundam-verse, big+bulky does not mean its less agile. GP02 probably same agility to GP01 seeing how they fought. GP02 has some crazy verniers as well.

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/0083/rx-78gp01.htm

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/0083/rx-78gp02a.htm

After I based on MAHQ stats, the GP02a only lose to the GP01 by a mere 0.2 seconds in doing a full 180 degrees turn. Further proof that bulk means nothing in Gundam-verse. Verniers gives +99 agility to any mech. Also the GP02 has more power from the reactor and total thrust from its 8 thrusters compared to GP01's total 4 thrusters.

EDIT: but after Full Vernian upgrade, its maximum thrust beats the GP02a flat but agility doesn't seem to be affected much.

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/0083/rx-78gp01-fb.htm



This post has been edited by wolfx: Oct 27 2008, 11:24 PM

Well.. but it still no deny Kou still have an upper hand.. Kou came in with a range weapon and Gato is fighting with only 1 arm..

He had to move his shield by moving his body... which is a huge disadvantage..

This post has been edited by redeye84: Oct 27 2008, 11:56 PM

i like gato for his personality n pilot skill

anyway, for those tht still havnt seen ali sanchez's new mobile suit

still wondering whats with the producer's answers when they confirmed graham's death

but eh, i suppose its reaction + zero system like movement predictions? allelujah portion is calculating/predicting movements, while hallelujah executes the moves. kinda like the brain works while hallelujah is the arms/legs.

at this point it seems he lost both LOL

and like durrrrr denial couple are in denial lol... like, too darn obvious

---

Added on October 28, 2008, 3:04 amlol people wanted desu, gundam 00 s2 is full of desus.... NEED MOAR DESUS?!?!?!!?!
(seriously, like every sentence she speaks, it'll end with desu lol)

on a serious note, sergei is ALREADY in doubt with a-lol. mannequin too, and marie.
but meh, hatred to CB > *

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Oct 28 2008, 03:04 AM

The Dendrobium is relatively slow and clumsy compared to smaller and more agile suits. Of course, for an MA that size it does move considerably quick due to the insane amount of thrusters. In the anime, the Orchis tends to outrun the missiles more than it dodges them; yet in some scenes it really does perform some Macross-style moves, albeit when it dodges it's still moving in one direction or a gigantic arc. And also, it is avoiding those shots from a great distance so it has time to dodge. As mentioned earlier, if a smaller, quicker MS gets into close range and fires, the Orchis might not be able to dodge. Gato's claws whacked the I-field and entered short range, and easily took the Orchis piece by piece. There's nothing to shoot down the claws from short range, especially from the sides as all the Orchis (and Stamen's) weapons face forward.

Not forgetting that the Orchis' large size makes it a larger target to be hit.

What I'm saying is that due to its size, it has to make big radius turns instead of turning 180 degrees on the spot, hence giving it a disadvantage in close quarter combat. Looking back at gundam history, large MAs never tend to do particularly well if smaller, more agile MSes manage to penetrate into close range. Big Zam, Psycho, Destroy, Zeong all proved that it isn't exactly that good at close range; and in CDA (although it's canon-status is still not yet confirmed) Char complains about the Zero The R being quick only in acceleration but bad in maneuverability.

As for Kou being a more inferior pilot than Gato, that's true no doubt. But credit to Kou for growing throughout the series... a trainee test pilot maturing into a decent soldier, not only in terms of skill but also mentally. Who knows what Amuro would have done with the Orchis, but Amuro makes everything look great because he's the main protagonist plus one of the strongest newtypes around.

Anyway, great vid you posted... 0083 kicks ass... beautiful, detailed animation, more human-like characters, kickass tactics by Delaz... and most importantly the battles do make one feel as if we're in a real intense war.

Its only perceived as less agile compared to a smaller MS because its like you were swatting a fly/mosquito with a broom. And a MS is not mosquito sized to the Dendro nor the NZ. Size and mass does not affect turning speeds in Gundam-verse. If you watched MS Igloo and saw how agile Salamis class cruisers are and how fast they turn 180 degrees (less than a second!) you tend to just shake your head in disbelief. The same could be said about the Dendrobium

The Orchis's claws are omni directional and move 360 degrees so it can actually hit all around the Orchis, not just the front....Gato took em out 1s leaving the Orchis defenceless in short range after the 2 claws are gone, not that the Dendro sucks at close range. Though relative to the NZ, the Dendro does suck in short range since the NZ has beam cannons that can still be fired in short range. Dendro has nothing unless u count the Stamen using its beam rifle.

has gundam 00 out yet?

The Salamis are most likely due to an inconsistency in animation rather than them being able to turn 180 degrees in a split second. It's hard to fathom a huge structure which has a length of 300m making turns less than 1 second. The Pegasus classes can't do those turns or moves in less than a second, nor can the Argama or Radish or even Ra Cailum. And if you take into account the barrel rolls of the Archangel... those definitely are more than one second.

A typical MS already needs 1 second to turn around to its back, there's no way a large battleship which is probably 10, 20x the size of an MS can do it in less than 1. Unless it's rotating on its axis at lightspeed. Also note that for the Orchis, most of the thrusters are all facing backwards so it can't brake suddenly with front/opposite verniers and make swift movements like an MS with AMBAC can.

I guess we all agree that the Orchis is fast for something its size but comparatively less agile than a smaller MS. And with your anecdote about swatting a fly with a broom it does mean that a smaller MS have more dimensions and directions to manoeuvre around. And we agree that the Orchis is disadvantaged at close range due to the lack of appropriate weapons so yeah.

As for the claws, they only have beam sabres which again aims at one direction at at time no matter how wide the range of rotation is. The Stamen's beam rifle is unlike to cover the rear of the Orchis as like I said, the projectile weapons all aim forward or at most sideways if they are carried by the Stamen's hands.

At the end of the day, it's clear that a large machine, be it an MS or an MA, will have a larger mass to move around and hence it wouldn't be as agile and manoeuvable as a smaller unit is. Therefore they are often armed to the teeth with loads of weapons that cover most, if not all angles plus an I-field. Not forgetting the insane amount of thrusters to move the mass around.

wat an obvious question

No thread on 00 yet?

Cuz there is already a thread on this i guess.

this is the thread for all gundam universe

Shrugggg....i really dunno and in anime i don't really take into account real world physics.

That said in Gundam-verse i've always had the belief that size doesn't matter in terms of maneuverability. Igloo is a new anime compared to the old 80's anime so perhaps the Whitebase can really pull those kinda maneuvers but they don't animate it due to the limits of animation during those days. So if anything Igloo is the more recent and more accurate depiction of U.C Gundam's physics. Even Gundam 00 which is a recent anime depicts Ptoleimos as a fast transport craft able to do moderately quick maneuvers for its size due to its GN compressor engines, which itself defies physics.

Fair enough that anime doesn't take real life physics into account, but surely something as large/long as a few hundred metres can't make a complete turn in less than 1 second. The Orchis is approx 70m without the rifle barrel and it probably is much quicker than a battleship; with its thrusters, it definitely has a greater acceleration ability than a small MS. Maneuverability wise, it has to move its bulk in big arcs as shown when it's dodging missiles... It cannot simply avoid shots by quick moves shown by the Zakus in Igloo2 where it skips aside to avoid the shells of a Type 61 tank.

Going back to the issue of giant machines, the Neue Ziel IMO is a better equipped weapon than the Orchis. All of Neue Ziel's weapons can all fire in various directions simultaneously. The Orchis on the other hand can fire all the missiles, rifle, plus two weapons of choice (rifle/bazooka) held by the Stamen's arms; but it's all aiming forward. Granted, the missile pods open up and scatter, but it has to be done from a distance otherwise the Orchis itself will be caught in the explosions.

Maybe that's why EF decided to forsake the Orchis... and also the consideration of high costs, plus the beautiful excuse of sweeping the GP project under the carpet. And the Titans decided to waste resources on Psycho gundams which had massive destructive power but horrible agility. Then again, 0083 was produced after Zeta so yeah.

As for Zeon, they just continued to make gigantic MAs for the fun of it... I haven't watched ZZ to know how effective they were, but Neo Zeon's forces had quite a number of large sized MS/MAs... In CCA, everything just went plus-sized... normal MSes reached the near-20m mark, and those fitted with psychoframes exceeded it. Alpha-Azeiru was huge, yet it's armaments are pretty much standard stuff for Zeon MAs... maybe the size is just for intimidation purposes. During 0093 the mecha's performance all increased exponentially compared to early UC, so AA might just manoeuvre faster than Orchis, but smaller MSes also got quicker by then.

In 0096, everything was still pretty large with Kshatriya and the new Shamblo... will we get another bigass MA for Zeon or even EF for the finale?

We all know how the smaller, more agile Xbone suits thrashed the bulky EF suits in F91, but of course pilots do play a role here. EF probably got complacent with no real rival in the 20+ years after Zeon surrendered.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Oct 28 2008, 03:00 PM

well, the Ptolemaios is very slow in season 1 and could barely dodge incoming beams (note: damn long range) from alvarote. and the alvatore itself... lets say that even the bulky gnarms exia can tear it up lulz.

I generally agree and prefer the Neul-Ziel in terms of balance between ship killer and as anti-MS weaponry. Dendro is like a fast interceptor one-manned cruiser class ship whereas Neul-Ziel is jack of all trades.

Back on 00, fansub comparisons:
http://www.fansubbingis.srsfkn.biz/?p=77

LOL nyoron gets pwned.

Yeah...Graham ahead...

Look like thorne is back at new ep..