Want to ask some feedback. We've been having people die in Phase 3 due to Thaledred. Urgh.

Our focus DPS sequence in Phase 3 is :

1. Shield
2. Axe
3. Thelonicus
4. Thaledred
5. Saingunar
6. Capernian

Phase 3 is giving us problems because of Thaledred hitting people since he stays up for a pretty long time.

How does your DPS sequence look like? How do you prioritize in Phase 3?

Here's a copy of our WWS. http://wowwebstats.com/tkrphpl5gh11a

I'm a wee bit low since I ended up healing during some of the fights and playing with a semi-fried modem (lightning knock out the ports, only wifi up and even then occasional lag spikes).

This post has been edited by myremi: Mar 4 2008, 11:49 AM

This is our wws, not that much different from yours.

http://wowwebstats.com/32tonzatro2ci?s=1583-2563

Our sequence:

(after Bow is dead)

AOE dps until mace and staff dead. During AOE phase, melee dps focus on mace first, then staff.

Then range dps focus fire the shield (spriests, hunters, warlocks, mages, etc).

Melee dps focus fire the dagger, then sword.

Usually, when p3 starts, only Axe is still alive. All warlocks put CoD on Axe once their first CoD pops on the shield. Just before i go and tank capernian, i usually full dots on Axe first before i run off.

All range dps bring down axe, as Thaladred starts walking over to the raid. Usually, by the time Thaladred switches to his 2nd gaze in p3, the axe is dead.

How not to die to Thala?

- All dps must stand min 20 yards away from him at all times
- Make sure have rogue melee thaladred to get the dagger debuff up. If gaze on the rogue, then rogue can vanish or die (we usually ss this rogue). This dagger debuff is usually the difference between success and failure for guilds new to the fight -- 20% extra magical dmg is HUGE.
- Hunters, mages, rogues, pallies -- if you get gazed by Thaladred, DO NOT fd, invis, vanish, bop, ds, etc. If you do this, then he will switch targets suddenly to highest on agro (usually a poor warlock or spriest). If that person happens to be standby nearby (since he wasn't being gazed, he may think its safe to stand close to thala), then he is dead.

spriest : bow> mace> shield> anything else> dots and slight dps on axe

last 2 kael kills, my job is to keep staff buff up on sanguinar tanker (since im undead, can skip fear one, fear ward myself one). so, i just fulltime dps sanguinar while watching who got gazed by thaladred.

how to keep staff buff up : stand a bit close to the person u want the buff. if you close enough, there should be 'mental protection' on the said person. keep that range.

We had some awful encounters yesterday.

Holy Priest kept DC-ing. Another Holy Priest got feared through one of the doors and adds that were there came through. Bleargh.

Not enough Debuffs on Thaledred during Phase 3 - seems double the time we usually take him down in phase 1. Probably not enough debuffs applied throughout the entire raid fight because comparing the LoTH WWS and ours, you took down KT in 16 min while we died in phase 4 during the 14 min.

Many mistakes down. Urgh.

The guild that i'm in now are also going to face Kael'thas Sunstrider soon.
So did a bit of reading on this.
Guess your guild should have done some research on it too. Anyway, this is what i found.
Since never been in there yet... so not sure this will work or not.

Phase 3
All the adds from phase 1 respawns at the same time and only the shield should still be alive. To get through the remaining parts of the fight you need to utilize the different effects of the weapons.

Grand Astromancer Capernian should be picked up by the tanking Warlock in fire resist gear and moved far to the south. With the staff equipped on the Warlock and one healer with the mace Grand Astromancer Capernian should be under control for the remaining duration of the fight.

It's important to make sure that the staff buff is applied to everyone in the raid and that the dagger and bow debuffs are used. The Warrior assigned to tanking Kael'thas should loot a dagger and keep the debuff up on Thaladred the Darkener.

A Hunter should tank Master Engineer Telonicus to allow for the melee DPS to go all out from the start and to keep the bow debuff up. If the healer assigned to the Hunter uses the mace healing should become rather trivial.


Ranged
Start to burn Thaladred the Darkener down as soon as possible. It's important that people who get gazed don't kite him near the melee DPS. Warlocks and Shadow Priests should keep DoTs up on the shield while killing Thaladred the Darkener. When Thaladred the Darkener is dead the shield should get killed and after that ranged DPS can help melee finish of Lord Sanguinar. If there's still time before phase 4 go for Grand Astromancer Capernian.

Melee
When Master Engineer Telonicus dies, melees go for Lord Sanguinar. When Lord Sanguinar is dead melees should move up to Kael'thas and await the start of phase 4.

Warlock does not need fire resist gear. In fact, no one in the raid does.

You need to have a tank on Telonicus when you're bringing him down in p3. Normally, our p3 Telo tank = our p4 Kael tank.

Shield must die before p3 starts. All tanks must have the shield equipped before p3 starts.

When p3 start , just finish off the remaining weapon. Then all range should focus on the Thaladred. Keep the lust for the Thaladred, have one warr constantly maintain the +25% magic dmg debuff on him. The only way is not to die from Thaladred is to focus and maintain range.

Our p3 Telo tank as well as the Saingunar tank are feral druids. P4 kael tank is our warrior.

We down the shield last because our MT is the only geared+skilled warrior to tank KT. He's tanking the Axe. A prot pally is tanking the Shield.

Shield and Axe are still up when the P3 starts.

We only roll with 1 warrior tank on new fights. And he's the MT. Ideally would like to get a 2nd warrior in but atm the other 3 OT is a prot paly and 2 feral druids. Is a 2nd warrior tank a necessity or no? At present, it's phase 4 where we're wiping because of 1-shots from Kael

Myremi,
To defeat p3, your raid leader need to understand exactly each adds ability and the legendary weapon skill tat can counter it.

Thaladred = Gaze (cannot negate unless bubble/iceblock/FD, which you dont want, so you need to kite)
Sanguinar = Fear (negated by fearward, warrior stance dance, legendary shield)
Capernian = Conflag (negated by legendary staff)
Telonicus = Remote Toy (negated by legendary staff)

So based off the above, thaladred is the most dangerous and need to go down 1st. Our guild's kill order is...

1. Thaladred (all range dps + 1 melee on him at all times to keep up the the debuff)
2. Sanguinar (all melee dps start here + 1 hunter keep debuff up at all times)
3. Telonicus (all)
4. Capernian (range only)

The "keeping up of the debuff" is important. Rationale for this is... the whole design of the tempest keep raid instance has been designed to train the raid to have 2 teams, 1 melee team + 1 range team. And for Thala/Sang, 1 person from team A need to help team B, and 1 person from team B need to help team A.

---

Added on March 4, 2008, 9:14 pmI'd suggest reworking your tanking assignments so your prot warrior is on Sanguinar (stancedance / shield to avoid fear) and prot pally is on Telonicus. Free up the feral druids to 1. dps 2. run the weapons to the tanks 3. battlerez up the screwups

Of course, for this to happen, you'll need to relook into your tanking assignments for p2 as well, which I'd suggest having the 1 feral druid tank the Axe.

Not mandatory, the only real benefit a 2nd prot tank will bring is where he comes in handy for kiting of phoenix - spell reflect the hellfire = gg


This post has been edited by saingau: Mar 4 2008, 09:14 PM

i'll share what i can about KT for P2 & P3 (coz i feel both are kinda related) eventho we only just had our first kill recently..

P2
- all hunters and a few caster dps on bow, they'll kill bow on their own
- most of the casters kill staff with 1 melee which will be the first to down
- all melee dps on mace w/o tank
- tank-A on dagger (our Sang tank), tank-B on shield+sword (our Telo tank), tank-C on axe (our Thala debuffer & KT tank)
- after staff dies, all aoe casters aoe mace+dagger+sword+shield+axe
- melee, hunter, and single target casters once they are free, kill order mace-dagger-sword
- tank-C taunts shield from tank-B after mace+dagger+sword dies
- advisor tanks & required people get into positions
- all free ranged dpser kills off axe during the small timeframe advisors revive
using this way, we managed to kill staff, mace, bow, dagger, sword, axe before P3 properly starts. we left shield on tank-C and let P3 starts

P3
- lock tanking Caper at South side at either corner, remind the whole raid to never ever go nearby the area Caper is being tanked
- tank-A tanks Sang somewhere around the middle West side as deep as possible, same side as where Telo is being tanked. this frees up a lot of space to kite Thala.
- tank-B, all melee dps & 1 hunter dps down Telo which is tanked North West side beside the platform, burn every cooldowns they have on him
- tank-C uses dagger to debuff Thala while having the shield following and hitting him for some rage so he can use some dmg skills on Thala (every bit of dmg helps rite..lol), all casters & remaining hunter dps down Thala around the big middle area, blow every cooldowns on him. we use tank-C to do the debuff coz at least if he gets gazed he can survive unlike the squishie melee dpsers...
- Thala kiters must kite around the free area while not going near the lock tank, tank-A, tank-B area & also to never kite up the platform where KT is. we figured that this way, our range dpsers can position themselves to be properly in range to dps Thala w/o much downtime running to get in range of him. ur Telo dpsers must be really be aware bout Thala tho (screw them if they dont..lol)..
- tank-C must be aware when Telo is going to die and go to that area so the dpsers there can kill the shield
- by this time Thala should be dead as well as the shield, dps down Sang, main KT people goes over to where KT is (tank-C, 1 staff user, some healers, 1 dedicated fireball interruptor, 1 hunter for MD)..
- Sang dead, casters finish off Caper, melee goes on KT
doing this way, we managed to kill Caper shortly going into P4..

what we noticed that made a difference on the day we killed KT compare to our other previous days attempts was :
- positioning of the advisors : made more space for Thala kiting and having the ranged dpsers more room to stay in dps range of Thala to maximize dps uptime on him. also helps to let some ppl stay alive coz we do 'Bubble' certain important ppl (usually the Caper team..huhu)
- dagger debuff : usage of dagger debuff gives quite a boost to help killing Thala, using a tank for that job makes it easier for the raid to not loose a raid member
- edit to add -- screw the melees who cant run from Thala in p3 on vent..lol

---

Added on March 4, 2008, 9:41 pmnot really necessary...can do like what saingau suggested (reassign tank job) or..
use ur other OT to tank Sang, put a shammy n drop tremor totem for the tank, also the tank needs to position Sang where his fear can be outranged by the assigned healer while still in range for heals (not having the healer feared is more important, tank get feared a bit nvm)

as to why we 'free' up our KT tank is so that he has a lot of time to prepare for KT himself rather than tanking an advisor and having little time to go to KT properly...

This post has been edited by mainFrame: Mar 4 2008, 09:44 PM

Then ur MT is nubbing it out with pyroblasts.

saingau : The fear is only 3-secs and surprisingly, the druid tank isn't taking much damage. In phase 1, we have the MT Warrior tanking him to stance dance but in phase 3, it's a feral druid. The only time when I see him taking damage is when Thrash happens and he drops about 45-50% of his health. We usually put a priest healing the Saingunar tank so that they can fear ward themselves.

Phoenix kiting is our Prot Pally. But there's a bit of chaos on our end because the phoenix may get aggro onto other people.

mainFrame : Thanks for the sharing. Your guild officers will marah me if share info with us eh? Don't want to get you into trouble lor.

Kurei : It's not from the pyro completely. It's from having one or two of the healers either getting MC-ed or connection problems. Because we didn't have that many prot warriors, we had the hunters equipped with the blade to stab the MC folks. Yeah, it's a good laff. We don't have regular prot warriors in the guild and the next in line is not ready for KT yet. Missing a few pieces in his gear.

Although, hmm... maybe I should get the feral druids to run around in human form and poke people with the knife. Since we're running with 2 of them. Just until phase 3 is over. Ngah. Or just bring the other Prot Warrior in.

__________________________________________________________

Next question : Do you guys tank + DPS the phoenix or do you kite it? Problem with the kiting is that the phoenix eggs may spawn too far from the raid. Problem with DPS-ing the phoenix is that a tank needs FR gear + takes away DPS time from KT.

just tank it. Its trivial with the mace healing buff.

Ta Kurei.

Rantic, I was comparing damage done on Thaledred:

Yours : http://wowwebstats.com/32tonzatro2ci?s=1583-2563&a=41#break
Mine : http://wowwebstats.com/tkrphpl5gh11a?a=42&s=5740-6473#break

Your combatlog range is not set to 200 yards?

- phoenix is damn slow, when it spawns ppl just need to move away from it and not be in its path, kiter/tanker go grab aggro asap (maybe the hard part is for ppl to be aware of it, huhu)...
- our main strat is kiting (we used our vashj strider kiter since strider kiters are too pro)
- our backup strat IF the kiter gets MCed is using the extra tank tanking it (ours was a prot pally for this coz they are not so useful in p4/p5..lol)
- while kiting/tanking, all ranged kills it..it goes down fast...while u can say it takes away DPS time from KT, for us its better doing this to minimize the dmg it can do to the raid rather than have us worried bout ppl staying in its path in some way (u know, those that really cant avoid it no matter what.. >.< )
- just remember to get everyone to kill the egg asap tho, thats including ur melees (minus the dedicated melee assigned to interrupt fireballs)..


won't one lah...share share with my fellow wow lowyat trolls (eventho i dont post as much)..lol


from ur wws, i believe u use 7 healers...not pretty sure how many u used on the MT (im guessing 3 dedicated?), but if put mebe 4+1 on ur MT, MC wont coz any healing probs..
how to handle MCed ppl, for us :
- sheep/fear/cyclone/blind/ice trap as a start to minimize dmg caused to the raid or prevent heals on KT
- get the rogues to whizz around n hit em with the dagger they got equipped in their OH, they have the speed hax from the sword to help em get to target fast...tell them to use their mouse to just select target (shud be left mouse button), NOT the autoattack one (this one normally is the right mouse button)...they shud also have the below macro placed on their action button/keybind and spam it on the MCed person till they break out of MC (screw the rogues on vent if they kill the MCed ppl lol, macro below will never ever kill the MCed target)..

QUOTE

/cast shiv
/stopattack

- dont use druids, use the rogues as described above to break MC ppl..let ur ferals enjoy the 'easy' just dps 1 target task for once lol...but seriously, rogues are far better doing that job imo..
- for poking thala, can try the strat i posted previously..or if ur raid normally brings one, use the dps war with shield equipped on him in defence stance poking thala...sacrificing a rogue/druid in human form is something needless and a waste of brez/ss imo..

Its not so much the damage taken during fear, but rather the loss of tps from your druid tank Do note that every dps class has been 'buffed' with the legendary weapons so tat means more agro gen from your dpsers and p2 > p3 > p4 = dps race



LOL why?



Big dmg (around 7-8K) comes from the fireballs, so make sure your rogues are kicking it (or MT shield bash). Also, from your WWS, you ran with 2 rogues, they can break the MC. You also ran with 2 mages, they can sheep MC ppl until rogues break them.



Just have him kite it near the raid, but out of hellfire range. For the eggs, your range dps shouldnt have a prob dpsing it down fast. And melee dps have the movement speed buff.



Actually your phoenix tank doesnt need to be in melee range - you ran with 3 hunters, have a MD rotation up for him. If he can kite smartly, he shouldnt be taking dmg = no heals required on him = no loss of agro.

This post has been edited by saingau: Mar 5 2008, 10:57 AM

this part of the tps is only a prob if the melees start on Sang...if start on Telo, will not be a prob..


coz we have some kinda issues btw our 2 guilds..lol

This post has been edited by mainFrame: Mar 5 2008, 11:03 AM

Yea I was thinking of my guild strat where we start off at Sang lol

Issues... nice.... share the love guys!

Healing MT aggro.

Honestly i can simplify the P4 scenario for u.

Assigned ppl to break mc (This should nvr be a problem) - in ur case is the 2 rogues ( i alwaz get a hunter to equip the dagger to dispel from the back )

Phoenix spawns - druid picks up and call out to move away from the druid. Tank it there stationary, raid should be away from him.

Pyroblast - Bubble the Tank + fire potion, 2nd pyro use the shield, 3rd interrupt ( the shiled will alwaz be gone b4 3rd pyro). This means when he cast the first pyro, all dps shifts to the phoenix n kill the egg.

I recommend the above cos its the sure fire way of handling the phoenix n surviving the pyros alwaz.

Shield down - Bloodlust n nuke it down till the phoenix comes again.

Rinse n repeat @ max 3 times, - You should be at 50%. Gratz.


If you're unsure of how to 100% kill from here -

Let Kael come to the tank alwaz. Only till Kael is on the tank, start dps.
- Ask ur tank to save shield wall just in case he nubs it out n get nether vapour. IF he does get it, those fireballs must be interrupted alwaz. (the stupid cloud that reduces hp)
- When he tosses everyone to the air, spread out n stay near the ground. Do not stay on the ground as u will get knock back up again, just float near the ground.
- Let Kael again run to the tank, not the tank run to Kael. Keep interrupting n alwaz make sure u PRE-HEAL the tank to keep the mace buff up.
- Leave the phoenix alone, just let teh druid tank pick it up, throw dots on it if u like ( we do that so it turns to an egg n stop bothering us for 15secs ).
- Rinse n repeat 2-3times.
- Gratz.

In all honesty, I was kinda surprise at how it happen. But his guild more competitive than ours lah. Ours is kinda laidback.

meh, there'll always be the sense of competitiveness between guilds...maybe not for u, but ur thinking isn't ur guilds thinking nor is mine for my guild..

Heh, true. Still though, we're not that hardcore and not that casual either. Although I feel like a schoolteacher rapping notti kids' knuckles with a ruler.

u have more raid days than ours..
lol at the bolded part..

nwy, lets not keep the guild rivalries from us sharing/discussing strats or what not kk..

I'm ok with sharing and u'll find I'm usually quite open.

Just that nanti u get into trouble with your Officers because you shared something with us, that I don't want to happen lah.

u didnt take into account that LoTH = T6 level liao...
ur doing just fine, just gotta fix certain things to suit ur raid better...our kill totals around 19min...
goddamn long fight..also one of the longest 1% for our TBC encounters with more than half the raid dead at that time from little things..kek


heh, i'll be fine..

Incoming gkick? LOL.


Hmm, I didnt realise the healing MT agro part. I did a quick check with my feral druid and he said that after hunter MD to him, he still go in to gain more agro and then he start kiting. If and when the birdie does break away and go for a healer, he'll just feral charge and get it back. So, myremi, this is just more input for you guys to think about. Kuro's option of standstill and tank also works. Either way, your healers just gotta be on the ball to keep the birdie tank up.

Let's see some guild rivalry ppl!

No guild rivalry. Me, I don't need more stress. Persuading 25-ppl to raid is hard enough.

BTW, how do u guys distribute your healers? Just curious here.

Gosh, been so long since I last read anything WoW related.

If I remembered correctly:

Ideal setup:
3 Palas for the Blessings
3/2 Shamies (The most imba group healer with good group buffs)
1/2 Healing Priest(s)
1/2 Resto Druids

In our first kill way even before the nerf he received, we went in with only 7 healers. 8 is also possible, but just be prepared for a longer fight (there is a darn enrage timer in the sense that weapons despawn after if I'm not wrong 10 mins after you kill the specific weapon (not too sure if it's still like this now - we learned it the hard way with weapons despawning in p5, sucked real hard when we had him in the bag should that not have happened)

I presume you already have p1-3 mastered to a certain degree. However, 3 is most crucial, if your dps is good, it simplifies things so much more. However, if not, fear not, as long as you know which weapon to take down first, and then which one of the advisors to burn in order, it should be fine too. Think those should already been covered by strats or advices as above - I dont want to be redundant here.

However if you want to know how the healers of my guild were distributed back then in P3 (P3 yet again since it's the crucial phase along with p2. P4 is simple for healing since all healers will just have the MT in mind - with rotation due to MCs - and just raid healing for mind control damage, that's about it), it would be:

3/4 on main platform with the MT and also a tank still taking out weapons. Yea, pretty much chill for them this time around if they have nothing much to heal, so just do some raid healing, but make sure they are ready for when p4 starts.

1 on tank tanking Telonicus

1 on tank tanking Capernian

1 on tank tanking Sanguinar

Which class healer doesnt matter much to be honest as long as they know what to do (ie: having the staff buff etc)

Make sure the healers tanking the advisors have already taken their allocated weapons - as the important ones should already been down by now. We advised them to take a staff and a mace each, not too sure if they did both all the time (for at times there are just so many people trying to loot which causes some confusion and item not looted in the end) but the staff is just for 'oh shit moments' when they really need a buff and cant get it, just swap for staff.

Healing, though intensive shouldnt be that much of a problem compared to at Vashj. Kael is all about raid know what the heck to do and avoid unnecessary damage. Still remember the good old days when the raid leader was going through the tactic right infront of Kael for 30mins.. heh, and anyone who couldnt replicate what he told them to do would be kicked out and replaced by a more willing person waiting outside the instance ;D

**Edited for blatant typos

This post has been edited by tales: Mar 6 2008, 10:40 PM

I believe we go w this setup - I might be wrong since I leave it to my healer leader to assign.

p3
1 healer on Telo tank
1 healer on Sang tank
1 healer on Capernian tank
4 healers on raid (+ tanks if need be)

p4 / 5
I believe 2-3 healers on MT
1 healer on phoenix tank (tip - preheal the phoenix tank so he gets the "reduce fire dmg" debuff before phoenix comes out - will help a lot.)
rest on raid