I am wondering, how come people would prefer HSBC or Mortgage One flexi homeloan to citibank flexi homeloan? Are their rates much much better?

HSBC and Mortgage One needs to pay monthly of RM10.00 but of coz with current account advantages included. Citibank however, offers the same thing but it also have another flexi homeloan where one only need to open an initial RM200 account for the transactions, but of coz without the current account advatages but one can put in and withdraw any access money put in just like normal savings account (but of coz minus the monthly prepayment). Does hsbc or standard chartered offer the same thing too?

If CTB offers me a BLR-1.5) for whole tenure for a below 300k refinance loan,
with flexibility of withdrawing and putting in money without prior notice and,
need to open an initial RM200 loan account. Is this package worth thinking of?
Is there anything about citibank should i be aware of?

Note: Yes...i need the flexibility becoz of my work nature and because i had banked with ctb for many years, i like their service....but becoz i am a noobie in mortgage loan, i would like to know the consequences.

Thanks for your feedbacks....

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Added on January 22, 2008, 5:28 pmsorry wrong place...can someone shift it for me please? thanks.

This post has been edited by mIssfROGY: Jan 22 2008, 05:28 PM

I have flexi loans with both Stanchart and Citibank. I pay RM10 per month for checking facilities on Stanchart, nothing with Citibank and only have ATM facilities. Won't comment on rates, but functionally they're very similar. You pay a certain amount on your due date, and any amount extra will offset your principal; saving interest on that amount. Withdrawal of extras is immediate and unlimited.

The way it's implemented however is different. Putting extra money in Stanchart will reduce your overall monthly payment. The statement tells you how much interest is saved overall but not broken down monthly. For example if I dumped RM10k into the account, my payment goes down by about RM150 monthly but that's the only info actually stated.

Putting extra money in Citibank will not reduce your monthly payments. However, the actual principal paid off per month is higher. With RM2k in the account, I see say RM1500 going to interest and RM500 going to the principal amount. With RM20k in the account, the breakdown can be RM1200 and RM800. I still pay RM2k per month in each case.

After having both for some time, I'm liking the Citibank approach much better because I can manage my money better knowing that I pay a fixed amount each month (assuming BLR doesn't change) and I can actually see the amount taken out of the principal. I haven't done any in depth calculations to figure if either method is superior however.

No experience with HLB.



This post has been edited by tishaban: Jan 22 2008, 10:45 PM

Citibank extra payments deduct principal straight away. Despite other banks claims that they do in reality they dont. If u need Citibank loan, contact me. I work in that department. Anything u may pm me. I also have commission. Cheers!

i'm looking for loans aswell.

280k house 90% loan. looking for zero moving cost. it's a completed property. if have those flexi one better, like the above case. havent really apporach the bank.. but mayb u guys can give me some input.

thnx in advance.

Maybe you should go out there and read the available materials ask specific questions? What sort of "input" do you really need?

OHh thanks so much for the feedback

Hmm...so SC actually reduce monthly payment....but do they tell you how much principle you have left with them too?

I also realised that Citibank's BLR is higher than nearly all other banks. I wonder why...

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Added on January 24, 2008, 8:17 pmCan eleborate further on this? "Despite other banks claims that they do in reality they dont. "
Then how do other banks calculate their interest?

This post has been edited by mIssfROGY: Jan 24 2008, 08:17 PM

Both Stanchart and Citibank will list the actual principal amount still outstanding. Stanchart makes you do the math yourself to figure out how much principal was deducted that month, Citibank states it clearly in the statement.

Both Stanchart and Citibank are more than happy to negotiate rates with you. My last loan went to Citibank because their rates were lower and Stanchart couldn't match them.

Do you nego rates after or be4 approval? I have asked for better rates from ctb.....they told me after the approval, then they will nego rates with me. Is this the norm?

Btw...i am only taking a 300k loan, will they even be bothered with me for better rates?
Btw, am wondering, did u check with hsbc?? Coz i think this is another bank which is quite famous with their flexiloan....would like your opinion on them if u have.

My loan was 200k only. I got the offer letter from Citibank, and was trying to negotiate with Stanchart since my previous loan was already there. I'm not sure what the normal procedure is, maybe someone else can chip in. While they may not give you a better rate, they can at least match what other equivalent banks are providing.

I didn't look into HSBC to be honest. With my previous loan before this one I again was comparing Stanchart with Citibank (plus MBB, RHB, BCB). This was back when MortgageOne was first announced and at that time Stanchart gave me a better deal.


This post has been edited by tishaban: Jan 25 2008, 11:33 AM

Hi guys,

This might be out of topic, but I was just wondering, what are the reasons behind someone actually wanting or prefering the flexi advantages?

If its for business, invesment, emergency, or etc. wouldn't it be better to separate your loan from your flexi/banking accounts?

Have you guys ever wondered if you're behind payment by a few months on your home loan, do you still think the bank will allow you to withdraw the money from your flexi account?

Just wanna know your reasonings. Thanks.

This post has been edited by Zarth: Jan 25 2008, 11:54 AM

oHhh u Give me HOpes...kekekek. Okies....i have more courage now to nego with them...
Oh so u did compare them with local banks.....how did u find them?
Actually i was thinking of local banks too becoz of their attractive rates....but somehow i hated their service. They sometimes make you wait for ages just to settle some small matter....and i am not too confident in their customer service (scared they put me on hold too long or simply forward me to the person-in-charge, but neva reach and etc)
Hieez..someone please prove me wrong tho..

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Added on January 25, 2008, 12:46 pmFor me, its because i can put all my extra money into the account to save some interest, since savings and fd interest are much lower and i dont gain much, might as well just put everything in the loan acc and still have the flexibility to redraw when i need to. And because of my nature of work, i ll need the flexibility alot.

Ermm....behind payment? I never thought of this as i wouldnt expect myself to be behind payment at all. But u mean there is a service where one can withdraw money eventho he/she is behind payment??

This post has been edited by mIssfROGY: Jan 25 2008, 12:46 PM

I see, thanks for your response mIssfROGY.

So basically you're using the linked accounts as a day to day work/business cash flow account?

or

Do you only deposit the extras you have into the account after setting aside money for business/work purposes?

From my personal experience, the reason why most sole proprietors would really have a need to withdraw from thier account is when they are having cash flow problems in business etc. hence, the reason why they might be behind payment for a month a two in thier loan instalment.

Though flexi account might seem to have its advantages, but only if the cash flow is managed and controlled properly, or else with the little bit of charges here and there it might be better to go for a conventional loan and separate both the accounts, preferable in different banks as the deposit and withdrawals you do would even earn you less interest compared to setting it aside in a monthly renewable FD account.

You wouldn't want the bank to hold on to your cash when you're running late on a few payments and yet in need of it to keep your business running.

Also if you're more concerned about saving interest by making prepayments as you have setup a seperate account for cash flow, read up on this article - http://www.finweb.com/mortgage-loan-educat...prepayment.html

But do make sure your bank actually uses your prepayment to do principal reduction rather than advance payment in a suspended account. Makes a big different in the long run.

This post has been edited by Zarth: Jan 25 2008, 01:22 PM

Hmm...
okies...my scenario would be....
I will be treating this loan account like my normal saving account where i can redraw and put in money whenever i like. The way i see it, flexi loan account is more worth it because to me its like generating more interest/saving interest however u put it. Because right now, my savings is not really making my money work for me at all....and i cannot put it into fd because i might need to redraw the money anytime. In business...we need money to roll, and it can be anytime. I am generating money on a daily basis...but i am also using money on a daily basis.....right now the only option i think is best for me seems to be flexi payment homeloan (not to delay payment or anything, but just to park n redraw my excess money)...but of coz, if anyone can prove me that theirs better, i am open.

Lets say i put into a conventional homeloan.....will it do any good for my extra money?? But i do know that conventional do have much lower rates. Right now, i am closed to fd and savings because like i said, fd locks my money and savings do not generate much. Would like your opinion on this.

Can u eleborate on advance payment and prepayment to do principal reduction? They sound the same....they r not the same i assume?

@zarth.........:

I think you will be have problems with conventional loans too if you don't manage your cash flow correctly. It's not specific to flexi loans.

Second, both my Citibank and Stanchart accounts do not charge any fees for deposits/withdrawals. The only fee I have with Stanchart is RM10 per month for check writing facilities, and nothing for Citibank for ATM/internet banking only.

Finally, the deposit/withdrawal for a flexi loan account is exactly the same as a regular current/checking account. I go to the ATM, punch in my PIN and withdraw cash immediately. You don't have to put in any paperwork for withdrawal.

I think your arguments may hold water for the older style accounts that were offered by BCB/MBB etc. but the flexi loan accounts I have with Stanchart and Citibank don't have those limitations.

tishaban, if you read on the debate that I had in the other forum you'll find that the other guy marxdean does have a very good point (he's acting as the devil's advocate); whereby is it really worth it to spend that RM10 per month? as compared to OCBC whereby they charge RM50 per withdrawal....which one is more suitable..?

Citibank is good in the sense that no account maintenance fee is needed to maintain the account.
But overall it all depends on how one's thought on whether or not it's worth it....


Cheers!

b00n, I finally read marxdean's comments. I think his comments are valid when the interest rates are significantly different and when there were no options like Citibank to opt out of the RM10 maintenance fee. At least today, the interest rates between flexi and non-flexi loans are similar enough that the advantages of a non-flexi loan is minimal.

Another advantage in my opinion is that you can ask your employer to direct deposit your salary into your flexi-home loan account. That way you automatically take advantage of the daily interest calculations without having to do anything. Why leave your money in a savings account earning 3+% when you can save 5+% on your loan?

Again I do get where marxdean is coming from, but I believe the situation is slightly different today.

hihi boon, i too read his arguements. It did made me think alot...heheh...and this is wat i tot..

My current loan is the semi-flexi loan where i would need to pay RM20 per withdrawal, notify 2-3 days be4 and the amount is limited to 2k pertime! To me its so dem leceh and it did made me refrain from even thinking of redrawing any extras i put inside.

I think flexi is good for people who always make transactions while semi-flexi is good for people who only do emergency transactions. Actually is there even an arguement at all between flexi and semi-flexi homeloan? It works differently for different types of people with different needs. I think his thinking is abit one-sided, i mean is he even thinking for those who generate daily income and spend also on a daily basis? I mean i can be generating for 1 month and spending for the whole next month for example.

OKies...so they say treat your homeloan as homeloan and fd as fd or savings as savings. Then again, like i said, fd locks, savings sucks...at least flexi homeloan reduces your loan with the extra money that u might need it for very the nextday rite? Ya...maybe the interest might be lower....but i think in the end, it might come up to the same. Better be safe than sorry...right now i gotto pay the 3% penalty for changing my homeloan becoz of the UNflexibility that my current loan is creating for me.

He is a great guy IMO. He help put thinking caps on us for us to look at different angle. Since he never log on to that forum, i seldom log in there too.

So i guess it all depends on what's the need and planning one had before commiting themselves into a certain loan agreement.

Actually we could always do pre payment with conventional loan too. Just that it's quite a hassle because one needs to inform the bank to either shorten the tenor or reduce monthly repayment. Another con is we could not withdraw unless with OD facility..

Currently a lot would be either choosing "full" flexi or "partial" flexi. So i would suggest one to really consider properly and indeed Citi is a good choice but personally felt that the rate is not that attractive sometimes.

Cheers!

Hi let say I have overdraf from my home loan for 100k and i never use the 100k. If i deposit extra money into that account, will the bank pay me interest ?

yeaps....he also got me thinking for ONE WHOLE day...haha.
yeaps i was also thinking that CITI's rates abit off rite now compared to others...especially when the blr is also higher than others. Do u have any other full flexi loans to intro? I am open to other loans too if it meets my preferences.

Thanks for your feedback

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Added on January 25, 2008, 10:12 pmnola..u only save on interest but also depending on which type of loan u took. The bank will not pay u interest.

This post has been edited by mIssfROGY: Jan 25 2008, 10:12 PM

Sorry, can't help you there. I've stopped "shopping".

But anyway, rates published and rates actually offered are usually different. It all depends on how big is the loan and how well the sales fight your case.
In this case, Citi is more rigid towards this type of offer.

Good luck.

This post has been edited by b00n: Jan 26 2008, 07:34 PM

thanks alott Yeha i guess....hopefully they offer me soemthing i cannot resist la

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/615060

Citibank is good because:
1. Real flexi homeloan with daily rest, you get checkbook but make sure they are tied together (it's not automatically done)
2. Loan up to RM500k will entitle you to the CitiGold status (privileges, better rates, services, platinum CC)
3. Their online banking services is good (prompt and almost realtime status update)
4. Bill payment, easy. Fund transfer, fees only RM0.50 per transaction. Compared to Maybank which charge RM2-RM4 per transaction.
5. They will not look at your other commitments at other banks for their approval consideration, so you have a clean slate with them. (maybe it's not a good thing smile.gif)

Citibank is NOT good because:
1. Their BLR is higher than the rest, 6.80% compared to 6.75%. Make sure you know this!
2. Hassle to bank in the monthly payment.
3. Longer lock-in period and higher penalty for early redemption.
4. WORST OF ALL...explanation below

I scouted around some time ago and since then I've used Citibank as benchmark; anything better than them is good, and vice versa.

From there currently there are many comparably featured home loan, and so far the one that I like is Stanchart.

Why? It has all the benefits of Citibank (never tried their online banking before though), and the following compared to Citibank's cons:
1. BLR is same as other banks (Except Citi of course)
2. Hassle still the same (not many branches)
3. Shorter lock-in period and lower penalty
4. This needs an example, as below:
5. All in one account (loan, checking etc), automatically

Scenario:
Assuming you have RM200k loan, and the monthly payment is RM1400. Say it's RM1100 for the interest and RM300 for principle. Imagine you put in extra payment, making the total for a particular month RM2000. This effectively reduce the principle by RM600, so the interest will be calculated based on the reduced principle (make sure the flexiloan you get is on principle reducing basis, not interest reducing basis). Still with me so far? Good.

Now, let's assume you put in the whole RM200k in. And I know many ppl do this (they park their money to reduce the principle while waiting for good investment opportunities). What is the effective interest payment? zero? actually it is smile.gif. But what I want to highlight is, for Citibank, they will keep deducting RM1400 from the excess fund, although all will go towards principle. While for Stanchart, they only deduct RM300 monthly. So for Citi, you get your tenure shortened, but fund depleting faster. For Stanchart, they keep the 30 years tenure, so you have more cash.

Good or bad, it depends on the person. For me, it's definitely bad as I want to have cash ready wen I want it, and not at an alarmingly fast-reducing pace.

The examples are for the 2 banks. I have homeloans with mostly foreign banks, so a lot of the quirks which were not mentioned in the loan doc (or vaguely so) will surface later on, and it's usually to the bank's advantage.

meejawa, I guess your priorities and mine are different, I prefer Citibank because it's a fixed deduction, it's something I can plan for today, next month or 10 years down the road.

I haven't really seen the lock-in period for Citibank to be any different from other banks though, both my loans with Citibank and Stanchart have 5-year lock in periods. Can't remember the penalty amounts.

However does anyone else find it very annoying that it'll still take one business day for Citibank to credit their credit card accounts even if you transfer it through online banking?

Yup, different priorities

For the lock in period and penalty, it's negotiable. This is something I didn't know earlier. When I mentioned to my other friends, they didn't either. With this knowledge I've managed to get a better deal for my loan. (Everything in HL is negotiable, especially if the agent is not directly from bank, i.e. agency outside)

For online banking, when I transfer via internet to clear my Citibank CC, it takes effect immediately.

ya i do find it annoying about the one business day later.
recently i cashed in cash thru the deposit machine and it ate my money without notice, no receipt or watever so. So i called up Citi and made my report. They were quite efficient and all....thing i dont like is, when they finally fixed my problem, the bank-in date was FEW DAYS later, they use the date they fix the problem and not the date when i bank in?!! I was like WTH?!! No biggie problem la coz mine was a small amount...but it does makes alot of differences if the amount is big when the interest charges are like charged on a daily basis! Its not very ethical for the bank rite to do this...i mean, if it was a biggie amount, i would wana call up and ask them to fix the date and all....i mean all the trouble?! They shd have follow the correct date instead of creating this problem in the 1st place.

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Added on January 29, 2008, 4:18 pmReally u can do that?!! U r taking loan from Heong Leong issit?

Hmm..i transfer thru online too....maybe issit becoz u do it before the cut hours they stated?

This post has been edited by mIssfROGY: Jan 29 2008, 04:18 PM

HL as in Housing Loan.

Citibank HomeLoan, Citibank CreditCard, Citibank Online transfer from HL acc to CC acc (with the excess payment).

Ahaha....wat was i THINKING

The thing is I believe that we don't have a strong enough consumer protection agency and the banks simply take advantage of it. If we had more consumer protection then maybe we'll get better services and not too many charges from the banks.

I don't agree that it doesn't make a difference that the amount is small, if could just be a few RM per customer but when they have a few thousand customers the total adds up for the bank.

ya true also. Its at our disadvantage. Their cash machines proly breaksdown every now and then...worse if they make this a everyday event...and nobody do anything about it because its a small amount....Hmm...i think its time i pick up the call and make a biggie fuss about it

If CTB offers me a BLR-1.5) for whole tenure for a below 300k refinance loan,
with flexibility of withdrawing and putting in money without prior notice and,
need to open an initial RM200 loan account. Is this package worth thinking of?
Is there anything about citibank should i be aware of?

Ambank offer flexi loan with monthly fee RM5, B-1.5% whole tenure for 70k loan..
do u still think that CTB offer good rate?

Actually you should ask yourself whether you need a flexi loan in the first place. You have to pay for the monthly fees as well. If you are getting fixed income and the chances of having prepayment is slim, you can get better rates with conventional home loan.

Hmmm..sounds like CTB's deal still good....

You don't get interest paid by Banks into your Overdraft Account.. I think..

You can open up an Islamic current account to earn some interest for your surplus fund. Now a day, you can use internet to do fund transfers ( some people say it is not safe, but I find it is ok )

packages do have their pro and con and is up to consumers on which one is more suitable for them. E.g. for those who are not considering to put extra money other than the monthly installment then it is better to take conventional plan. for those who are planning (and willing) to put some extra money for their housing loan then can consider flexi.

well, flexi also have 2 types - some is 'real' flexi (like alliance, stanchart etc) and some 'half' flexi, e.g. maybank, ocbc etc. not much difference, only whether they give you current account or not (with monthly charges but less hassle to withdraw money.)
what i have mentioned is very brief actually, there's a lot more details into each plan. so decide on your method on handling house loan, then consider which plan is suitable for you

ya also best way to compare is to go to the respective banks' morgage department (or agent), ask about their plan, give them your loan details (e.g. amount, tenure etc) and tell them to print a chart for you. you will see how much you need to pay monthly paid for interest as well.

btw i read in the first page that someone mentioned that paying more for StanChart loan will have the monthly repayment reduced, but i think the monthly repayment is the same just the interest is reduced.

I happed to talk to few businessmen that are citibank customers and they do have some complaints especially on payment issue,

1) As businessmen, they depend a lot from collections of payments from their customers to run the cash flow. It is very common in Malaysia that post cheques are used by customers. Sometimes , there is a delay of 1 week or so. Therefore, they may pay Citibank late by 1 week. However, Citibank has a habit of keep calling them one day after due date to ask for payment.

2) Citibank does not operate with many branches, that also cause them the difficulty to pay. These " China man " usually do not operate with internet account.

3) Some citibank home loan that comes in the form of OD, supposing the interest is only RM 800 a month. The borrower still need to pay the interest every month, even though the borrower had banked in RM 20,000 a month ago, and well within limit. Otherwise, the loan may become NPL after a few months.


For the above reasons, they switch loans elsewhere.

Correct me if I am wrong bcos the information comes from my clients.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Feb 17 2008, 05:32 PM

Sorry, that's for Citibank's flexi home loan. Stanchart will reduce your monthly payment by the amount of interest you're not paying. I have loans with both banks.

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Added on February 17, 2008, 11:00 pmI have to say that I haven't had this issue before, but I've been late only once


This post has been edited by tishaban: Feb 17 2008, 11:00 PM

2nd Opinion :-

I see people miss out one important tool that I would want to highlight :-

1) Pre payment ( or early partial settlement ) let say lump sum of 20k- there is a reduction of the interest accordingly as the interest is calculated daily on amount outstanding. However, you may not get the benefit of 2) Advance Payment

2) Advance Payment , let say lump sum of 20k also. Similarly, you would get interest reduced accordingly since the interest is computed on loan amount still outstanding ( after 20K payment ).

Method 1 & 2 are the same when come to interest computations.

However, Method 2 Advance Payment has many advantages over Method 1 :

a) let say your monthly instalment is 1K a month, you will be paying 20 months in ahead. Therefore you get a good credit rating from the bank.

b) If you pay next instalment late, the bank cannot charge you for overdue interest since you are still paying ahead.

c) You can opt to skip the instalment for next 6 months, the bank cannot take a legal action against you bcos you are still paying ahead.

d) You can pay RM 500 instead of monthly instalment of RM 1k for the next 12 months. without being called up or penalised by the bank. In fact, your credit rating is till good.

e) If you happen to get a bonus of let say 30K, then you can use another advance payment to shorter the tenure.

f) You may withdraw some money out during festivals for example. Try not to do that if you can. ( Only applicable to full flexi loan ).



Just my 2sen opinion.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Feb 18 2008, 08:47 AM

argh!! I am getting abit irritated with citibank...
Yday was goin to sign the agreement......then i raised up my concern to the lawyer regarding my former bank still not yet disburse the 2.5% left to the developer (which i told numerous times to my sales rep from ctb) she sez no prob no probb.....now at the lawyer's firm, the lawyer told me lucky i raise the issue again because without the 2.5% being disburse 1st, we cannot go ahead with the loan agreement. And the loan officer from ctb can ask me to sign the loan agreement 1st without settling the problem 1st?!!!!! helOOooo wats goin on.......oredi so many times blurcase this sales rep...now biggest mistake...i am wondering should i carry on going thru with this deal because its getting me abit worried.

Citibank BLR=6.8%...