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 Share Margin Financing, borrow to play share

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cherroy
post Jan 17 2008, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jan 17 2008, 02:08 PM)
There is no thread on this topic and i am thinking of doing some borrowing until my money comes in to take advantage of the current financial turmoil

Let's discuss the PRO's and CON's

And experience if any.


Added on January 17, 2008, 2:11 pmCIMB is offering BLR+0.75%
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My advice is don't use it, it is a highly risky game, only use when or know prefectly what are you doing.

Share margin only good when bull time, at bad time, you double the losses. Imagine you do share margin account, your holding of shares value become lesser, while still need to pay up the bank on interest. Also when share price goes down, you will be facing margin call to top up.


cherroy
post Jan 17 2008, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jan 17 2008, 02:25 PM)
Dear Cherroy,

Yes, I know the risk involved... But i plan to take loan only for 2 month period until my CASH comes in. Then i plan to pay up immediately
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ok, that's different as said know what you are doing. If just for the sake to 'double up' without cash backing in near term, 90% will result in some unwanted circumstances. I have seen a lot of individual using margin account to 'double or triple up', eventually most (8/10) resulted in bigger losses.

Share margin is good for syndicate to use short term cash for their 'goreng' purposes but doesn't mean surely gain also for them, there are plenty of 'fail goreng' too.

Why you really need to use the share margin to buy right now, can't wait another 2 months? share might be cheaper then or can be more expensive.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jan 17 2008, 02:31 PM
cherroy
post Jan 17 2008, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jan 17 2008, 04:01 PM)
actually i told myself this:-

for good fundamental counter, if the price comes down 10% from my cost, i will do Dollar Cost Averaging.

It happen yesterday and also was there this morning, until it rebounded.

That is why i was thinking about buying more!!! but unfortunately no bullet...

It has got nothing to do if in 2 month time, it will come down more.
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Ok fair enough.

But what if it drops another 10%, average again using margin? then it drop further another 10% doing triple margin on it?

cherroy
post Jan 17 2008, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(ts1 @ Jan 17 2008, 04:15 PM)
buy transmile again?  icon_idea.gif
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He disposed already, if not mistaken.
cherroy
post Jan 18 2008, 09:04 AM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jan 17 2008, 04:41 PM)
transmile got no fundamental la.. i dispose liow!!!i bought because Robert Kuok bought!! not a good reason, i know!!!

i was thinking of buying Petra Perdana. I bought @RM5 it went down to 4.66..

this counter very strong fundamental la...
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Another point to make, it is always advisable (don't mean it is a must) share margin or leverage play when shares are really damm cheap and trade at insane cheap level. In between, If you can get right everytime, then share margin will make you rich, but if not, better becareful.

Just like I posted the sceario, it drop from 5 to 4.50, you do share margin, then market continue to drop, then it become 4.00, margin again? then become 3.50, another margin? at that time, you pay triple interest charges, only when shares rebound back quickly to 4.50-5 then you are making a gain. But if shares price stay and stagnant at that level, then you are paying 3x interest to banks. So if shares only rebound to 5.00 after 2-3 years, you gain nothing as interest can 'eat up' your gain.
But to be fair, on the other hand, if shares do rebound and shoot higher to 6-7, then you earn 3x profit.

Just my 2 cents, judge your own.
cherroy
post Jan 20 2008, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(Si|enCer @ Jan 20 2008, 11:57 AM)
Anyone mind to share what is the share margin or leverage rates currently available in Malaysia? As in how high can the margin be? Does every bank has their own margin or what? Thanks smile.gif
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It depends, as far as I knows, it can be varied depends on banks and individual credit creditibility.
cherroy
post Jan 22 2008, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(Esky @ Jan 21 2008, 05:36 PM)
I work for a stock broker, and from the comments of staff and remisiers, they sum up that most margin clients lose money over the long term. So, no money, don't play. Don't go and play with borrowed money.
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Yes, most margin users are losing money rather than making one. You only use margin when in bull run, in other time, you are almost surely lose out as you have 1/3 of chance of winning.

Market up - gain
Market stagnant - loss out on interest charges
Market down - loss out on interest charges + capital.
cherroy
post May 19 2009, 09:34 PM

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QUOTE(ks3114 @ May 19 2009, 01:17 PM)
Lets say I pledge 200lots of STAREIT for margin facility. Then I buy more of the same shares with the margin amount. In theory, it will be self sustaining right? ie. dividend will be more than enough to cover interest.

Those margin sifus, how risky do you think this strategy is?
1 = no risk, 10 = Very risky

Thx
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Yes, this is what we call carry trade.

This is always a risky move. Only do if you afford and dare to take the risk and fully aware the consequences.
Lot of people burnt more than people gain through this way, because of greed and timing. Main reason, people only want to do margin facility when market is bullish time aka market has run up significantly only then people turns more greed want to trade more so using margin.

If market turns out to be good, one can get wealthy very fast, as you put on leverage, people gain 1 you gain 2, so multiply the long term and repeating effect, you will be rich very soon.
People go from 1 to 2 to 4, you go from 2,4,16.

If market turns out to be against you, double trouble, loss on capital while still need to pay interest, worst still can't meet margin call, then have to sell everything to repay. Even market does rebound back, you actually game over as you have to sell everything you got.

One word, nothing is predictable in stock market and market always not behaving what people expected.

 

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