Basically; 4-5-1's a packing the midfield strategy. A formation's purpose is determined by the strategy and the players used. 'nuff said. For example; you use slower; stronger players and a 4-5-1 formation is often considered as a more diplomatic way of saying "park the bus please". A 4-5-1 with faster players will result in a more dynamic interplay to rush forward in numbers and overwhelm the opposition to submission. That was Chelsea's way of playing (albeit termed as a '4-3-3'). Ferguson tried; in his 4-5-1 days, to play a fast 4-5-1 but he only had slow, strong players to fill up the middle of the park. Which led them to being neither here nor there and they had to resort to playing long ball and boring their opponents into submission. The adoption of a lone striker is generally seen as a gamble because you'll either have good days (ala Chelsea scoring > 2) or bad days (Chelsea the rest of the time).

4-4-2's a more generic formation and is more flexible than you think. Despite being seen as more attacking oriented; teams like Blackburn and Everton frequently employ a 4-4-2 with 2 defensive midfielders or 1 defensive and 1 attacking midfielder to help protect the defense, especially against stronger teams. Obviously a 4-4-2 formation is more balanced as you've got 'lots of room to play with; depending on what you want. This is why the 4-4-2's arguably the most popular formation in the world. You can mix and match to conform with what you want.

As for the strikers; most managers would go with a big-and-small combo or a fast-and-slow combo for variety, but we've seen in recent times; the modern striker's becoming a fusion of both. Players like Drogba, Podolski, Klose and the like are putting an end to the days of Hartson, Hutchinson, Koller and the like.

Personally; I've always liked a modified form of a 4-4-2. Basically; it's a 3-5-2 in which you've got 3 central defenders (which you can probably form with a sweeper), 2 wingbacks who'll roam into midfield, a defensive midfielder to shield the back 3 and 2 attacking minded midfielders to provide firepower for the 2 strikers. In order for this to work; you've got to have good fast technical players who can pass the ball quick. You can also easily switch between playing 3-5-2 to attack and playing 5-3-2 to defend by adjusting the wingbacks.

Having said that though; you can only talk 'bout playing formations if you've got players who're disciplined enough who're willing to play as a team. Even professionals make mistakes with regards to formation discipline and positioning.

This is a very risky formation though; but then again, i'm just a naive noob who likes good, attacking football.

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 01:37 PM

Obviously premier league tactics won't work in amateur soccer. Which is why ball movement and Arsenal's way of playing will NEVER be played in a lower level league.

However; every team needs a formation. Saying you don't need one is like saying a car doesn't need wheels.

Like it or not; you have to have a formation because the formation gives you a system to move the ball around and allows you to plan and counteract. The cruncher is finding a formation which works with the players you have.

So you don't have players with the stamina to play 4-4-2 with wingers. So; why don't you play 4-4-2 without wingers? It's also known universally as the "christmas tree"?

Also; don't underestimate the power of the aerial threat. As long as you've got good setpiece takers; you've always got a chance. I've scored a couple of headers playing as a goalie against teams which underestimated the potency of the aerial power in the lower leagues. All you need is experience and timing.

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 01:44 PM

Formations like 1-4-2-2-1 if you strip it down's basically a christmas tree with a sweeper; and a christmas tree's basically derived from a basic 4-4-2. The 4-4-2's basically the model for almost all modern football formations. Saying that a 4-4-2 is irrelevant in the lower leagues while advocating a 1-4-2-2-1's basically saying that the son is not related to the grandfather? And what's the difference between a 1-4-2-2-1 and a 5-4-1; then?

Ermm; taking a swipe at my ability to play's kind of taking things on a personal note without being relevant to this conversation right? Do we really want to head down that road?

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 01:56 PM

I certainly hope so. Besides; I did mention that i'm a naive noob who likes attacking football. I never said I liked to win.



You mentioned that a good gk can catch the cross; but in truth you fail to understand that it's not that simple. Even premier league goalies still tend to struggle with catching crosses once in a while.

Also; with newer balls, cross-catching becomes complicated 'cause the balls are lighter and tends to pack a swerve. And we're not even talking 'bout winds and ground conditions yet.

Playing an aerial game is always a game of numbers; You pump large amount of balls in in the hope that a couple find their targets and ultimately; the goal. You do this because this is the last option you have with the players at your disposal.

So the "Christmas tree" is popular? But it's derived from the 4-4-2. Thus would mean that they DO employ 4-4-2-based formations in the lower leagues?

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 02:07 PM

To conclude again; isnt playing 1-4-2-2-1 equivalent to playing a christmas tree with a sweeper? Thus why it's derived from the 4-4-2. To be precise; it's derived from the 4-4-1-1; which is derived from the 4-4-2. Anyway; even if the 1-4-2-2-1 as you claim; is derived form the 4-5-1; doesn't it prove AGAIN my earlier point that 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 is also used in the lower leagues?

What is nothing personal? That And i dun believe you could play in higher lvl competition. is not personal? Pray tell; which part of it isn't.

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Added on January 2, 2008, 2:19 pmAnd once again you contradict your earlier statements. You fail to understand why people play long balls in the first place. As an alternate plan or when they realise their team's not good enough to play using another style.
1-4-2-2-1 has similiar problems as the christmas tree. Plus you've got to use 2 defensive midfielders meaning your going in front has a lack of support.

And thus; this proves yet another point. That formations are all a part of a strategy to win a game. Saying you don't use particular formations at a certain level is just being ignorant. You use a particular formation in order to COUNTER your opponent's formation. A coach wouldn't hesitate to use a 9-0-1 if he would win 100% of the time; would he? But in reality?

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 02:21 PM

I think you've got to buy 10D.

Obviously the playing styles are different. You can't expect to play like Arsenal when you've got big, strong and slow lads in your team right?

Hence why the formations used in the lower leagues are DERIVED from the mainstream formations? It doesn't mean that the original formations cannot be used; they just have to be tailored to suit the team or situation. Anyway; this has gone far too long already.

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 02:25 PM

I never said I intended to play that formation competitively. It's just for f*cks sake and for 'bit of fun.

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 02:26 PM

Obviously I know it's not practical. I stated all my disclaimers early.

True; but 1-4-2-2-1 playing only 1 striker is also risky as they can easily crowd him out; no? And playing a man-to-man marking with their midfielders will effectively close down your attacking mids. Again; it all depends on situation lorr. Anyway; we can debate this until the dog comes out and rolls over and dies and it'll still not conclude anything.

We'll just agree to disagree; aye?

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 02:31 PM

Doesn't work. Tried that very early in my life; ask Mike. We were thrashed 5-0 with that 9-0-1 formation.

Well; we were young that time; eh Mike? Who came up with that wonderstroke of a formation anyway eh? We actually thought if we left my brother up alone we could snatch something on a counter. heh. How wrong we were.

Ah; counter attack. There's a very easy way to stop counter-attacking formations and strategies. Don't attack. Which is why I wonder why teams that play MU bother to attack. One of those things you'll never understand; I've concluded.

This post has been edited by glozz: Jan 2 2008, 02:48 PM

Nope; we hate each other to the death.

You hate me or your team; eh?

Actually; most parking busses strategies are a 4-5-1 formation. With a 9-0-1, there's no midfield.