Agreed, share buyback is mostly used as a "scam" to lure in new buyers. :|

So how you view YTL Power who always buy back their own shares regularly..., so share buyback is a scam or not a scam, it depends on how well the management in judging its share price....as buy back is intend to make use current cash which cannot be generate more profits...then its the company share value... therefore they buy back....

however, if the management is think of creating a perception that...they are valuing their own share...by simply trigger a buy back, then that would be illusion.....

Yup share buy back is not a very wise move. But as an investor you got to see what you want and cannot say all the share buy back is bad. You got to do your own judgement.

YTL power is not a goreng stock. it share price has been quite reasonable all this while. When the stock price going down further they will buy more shares and "distribute" back to share holder. It is diffrent case compare to IOI or Top Glove which bought back their shares at very high price. As a shareholder of YTL POWER you got the share dividend and can consider it as your reinvestment since for mycase i think it is worth.

Compare to normal dividend you are being taxed 26% where as bonus share does not have tax. You got to consider all these.

It is rather hard to prove. But I do know some bosses do keep some shares in "third party names".

They could easily offload these shares by using a share back program to rescue themselves.

Correct me if I am wrong.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Nov 1 2008, 01:18 PM

For YTL power case.

About 50% of the stake are belong to the Yeoh's family. Basically they cannot trade on their shares as insider trading is against the law. The Yeoh's, they acquire their share not becos of trading (buy and sell) like us to earn some gain...Their % stake is more onto controlling stake.Basically they don simply sell their shares...Instead i think they are trying to acquire every piece they can at lower price to increase their stake in the company.

I say shares bought under names of third parties not related to stakeholders.

It is a common practice in political linked companies, shares not the names of political parties directly.

I never specify any company. Do not link it to YTL Power. I do not know this company well.

It is more on the subject of share buy back, good or bad.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Nov 1 2008, 02:11 PM

Ok as i am trying to discuss with kamen rider regarding ytl power case.

Well "share buy back" as i mentioned previously it is all depend on how ppl use it / see it. It can be either good or bad depends on ppl intention and how ppl see it.

Take for example Company A

It company does not expand anymore and are cash rich. Company A can use the cash to buyback share at low price and distribute it back to share holder and it is tax free compare to dividend which is normallybeing taxed 26%. Thats y when we invest we got to make our own judgement case by case. But maybe for some ppl they will still prefer cash dividend as maybe they can use the cash for his vacations or maybe invest in other thing. So it is all depend from case to case..


But in general, i see most sharebuy back are buying at high price for example like IOI which bougt back at RM 8.00 down to RM 2.00. Besides that top glove is also one example. They are using the company cash to buy back share at high price so it is a wastage for company resources which does not benefit the company and share holders. This is why they said SHARE BUY BACK IS not good. They can use the cash for the company expansion which is more meaningful.

Yes, i agree with you.

Just that majority are in Category B, in reality.

In a way, it is like a sword, could be used in many diff ways.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Nov 1 2008, 08:05 PM

Yup. Since budget 2009 budget stated that we cannot claim back the tax dividend of 26% so in actual fact the dividend yield of 10% is actually 7.5% only. So if the company can use share buyback properly it is good indeed.

Like the case of IOI, i would buy the share at ( rm 2.22 which I did ) , then to buy at rm 8, and hope for distribution of treasury shares.
"
A share buy back is a " dead resource " of companies, like maintaining few hundred workers without assigning them any job.

Turning into cash, would be at a big discount.

Perhaps using the money to buy shares of other cos are more meaningful.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Nov 1 2008, 08:29 PM

IOICORP surged above RM 3.

CPO futures soar 6.7pc

MALAYSIAN crude palm oil futures jumped 6.7 per cent to a near-two week high today, thanks to gains in crude oil and China soyoil markets, traders said.

The benchmark January contract on the Bursa Malaysia Derivatives Exchange rose as much as RM102 to RM1,617 (US$455.6) per tonne in the first few minutes of trade, a level not seen since October 22.

“The relationship between crude oil and palm oil is getting more obvious, you can basically throw out all the other variables,” said a trader with a local commodities broker.

“Dalian soyoil is giving some support as the local speculators are using these cues to buy on anticipation that sellers will start to cover.”
Oil rose above US$68 a barrel today, reversing earlier losses of more than US$1, as Asian stock markets climbed on signs of improvement in credit markets and the dollar steadied, stiffening investor confidence.

Vegetable oil prices have been increasingly tracking crude oil as more production is used to make biofuels.

US soyoil for December delivery rose 3.9 per cent while the most-active January 2009 soyoil contract on Dalian Commodity Exchange hit its 5 per cent trading limit up briefly. - Reuters

http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIM...icle/index_html

IOICORP closed at RM 3.08 today.

recently received news from the plantation that there is over-supply of palm oil, mills have excess capacity and refusing alot of FFB from the field.

Forcing local producers to bury their crop, instead of letting it rot in the open.

Apprently, this yr end crops r at full yield meaning the harvest is good supply is high but no takers.

Palm oil anyone?

The real share buyback :-

IOI CORPORATION - DIRECTOR SHARE ACQUISITION IOI CORPORATION reported that LEE SHIN CHENG, Director had between Oct 17 and 20, 2008 acquired 3.0m shares in the Company at between RM3.06 and RM3.12 via PROGRESSIVE HOLDINGS sb and shares held by his sons LEE YEOW CHOR and LEE YEOW SENG.

Smaller-cap plantations down

KUALA LUMPUR: The local stock market snapped its three-day rally as investors were quick to take profit, sending the 100-stock KL Composite Index below the key 900-level on Tuesday

Smaller-capitalised plantation stocks were among the major losers but in relatively thin volume while interest was seen in water stocks including JAKS, Puncak and KPS.

At 12.30pm, the KLCI had eased 1.2 points to 898.15 but off the mid-morning low of 889. Turnover was 615.8 million shares valued at RM602mil. There were 200 gainers, 312 losers and 117 counters unchanged.

Asian markets were mixed, with Japan’s Nikkei 225 up 4.77% or 408 points to 8,985.82 and Hong Kong’s Hang Seng Index rising 0.22% to 14,375.34.

Singapore’s Straits Times Index fell 1.43% to 1,856.87 and Shanghai’s A Share Index shed 1.66% to 1,776.86.

Light crude oil eased 60 cents to US$63.31 while crude palm oil futures fell RM65 to RM1,601.

Smaller-capitalised plantation stocks were among the bigger losers.

BLD Plantations eased 21 sen to RM2.59, Chin Teck and United Malacca 20 sen lower to RM5.25 and RM5.20 while Batu Kawan eased 15 sen to RM7.15 and Far East 14 sen to RM4.96. However, IOI Corp added two sen to RM3.10.

Puncak rose 25 sen to RM2.60 while KPS added 24 sen to RM1.63 and JAKS 11.5 sen to 50.5 sen.

Consumer-based stocks were among the major gainers but trade was relatively thin.

BAT, seen as a strong defensive counter, rose 50 sen to RM41 while Nestle added 25 sen to RM27.25 and Guinness 18 sen to RM4.98.

URL: http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...58&sec=business

IOI Corp Q1 net profit falls 36%

KUALA LUMPUR: IOI Corp Bhd’s earnings for the first quarter ended Sept 30 (Q1FY09) fell 36% to RM290.5mil from RM451.52mil a year ago following unrealised translation loss on US dollar loans of RM212.2mil.

IOI Corp said in a statement on Friday it had included realised foreign exchange loss of RM100.6mil in the Q1FY09.

“After excluding the unrealised translation loss on US dollar denominated borrowings of RM212.2mil (Q1 FY08 - gain of RM34.9mil, the net earnings for Q1FY09 is RM502.7mil or 21% higher than Q1 FY08),” it said.

Plantation earnings rose 43% to RM567.1mil, boosted by significantly higher crude palm oil (CPO) prices.

Average CPO prices realised for Q1 FY09 was RM3,391 per tonne as compared to RM2,473 per tonne last year.

IOI Corp said the resource-based manufacturing segment reported an increase in profit by 18% or RM22mil despite the inclusion of the realised foreign exchange loss of RM63.4mil for Q1FY09.

“Overall, the group recognised a total realised foreign exchange loss of RM100.6mil in Q1FY09 from the resource-based manufacturing business segment and also from the partial conversion of proceeds from the US dollar borrowings,” it said.

It added the property segment’s operating profit of RM68.2 million for Q1FY09 was 38% lower than Q1FY08.

“The decrease is due mainly to soft property market conditions experienced in the current quarter and also the lower margins as a result of higher construction costs,” it said.


URL: http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...12&sec=business

my personal perception, malaysia are plantation base production country,
no doubt,
use to be rubber, tin mine, where are those company gone?
bankrupt or missing, now palm oil la, i rather buy something substantial
like coke.

Mind to check the records, since the inception of Bursa, how many listed companies went bust, and how many of these listed stocks that bust, were of plantations ?



This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Nov 9 2008, 11:07 PM

Plantation had been relatively stable counters, some being privatize but not many went bust