The way i see you know investments well like putting in REIT, BOND and so on, what could go wrong ? By the way, what is structured product ? that you put a high weight on it, are they performing ok ? Mind to share, and want to learn from you.

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Added on January 14, 2008, 11:50 am2nd opinion :-

Maybulk's profit could be affected by high oil price and quite cyclical. The investment cost to buy or maintain a ship is high compared to BTOTO. THE GOOD PT is it is linked to Robert Kuok WITH big palm oil land and commodities to support this shipping company. Listed not long ago.

BTOTO is consumer stock ( laymen buying ekor) and is more defensive in view of current US economic uncertainty. linked to Berjaya Group ( not very popular with old time investors at one time ) We used to call this type of co as CASH COW, meaning they keep a lot of cash or less borrowings. If US were to go into recession this year, then investors will park their money here. Got online bettings outside Malaysia.

BTOTO declared windfall dividend of rm1/share before, but that is not the point. Consistently pay out good dividends (got track records ). Islamic fund cannot invest in this counter.

There is one good counter that in the past, investors tend to ignore now it is doing well, i.e Asiatic. The share is oledi doubled up ( one year period ). If a small timer with only investment in this counter, he can out perform our fund managers ( in return of % return over a year )

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 14 2008, 01:31 PM

Thank you for yr explanation.

I personally dislike Berjaya Group. Cannot talk too much here, otherwise could end up in legal case.

Seldom people talk about Cash Rich Companies now a day. Personally l love these companies. These counters would not likely to go bust when the market plunges.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 14 2008, 03:18 PM

Yes you are right. Counters like IOI Properties and Public Bank are very boring counters. But look at their performances after Year 1997 ( dividends and capital appreciation ), it is not that boring anymore.

It is my personal opinion, beginners in KLSE should go for these types of counters for a time horizon. Even they have wrongly invested ( if market comes down ), their money is still intact ( when mkt recovers ).

Just my 2 sen opinion. Not wrong and not right.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 14 2008, 03:46 PM

For those who want to Goreng KLSE counters need to have a "Cut Loss" Plan in place first, unless they do not mind to become long term investors. Most of them got to pay tuition fees to stock brokers first. Just 2 sen opinion. correct me if i am wrong.

For those invested for " dividends ans long term cap appreciation" tend to live a happier life. Of course, they may grumble like old men when their shares are not moving fast enough. Another 2 sen opinion.

You can study counters invested by Unit Trust Co in Div Funds, then choose some out of there if you think got potentials. Remember to go for good track record UT Cos. You may save time and do a mirroring. You can also counter check whether your counters are on their lists or not. Do not sell cos yours are not on their lists, you can be better than them at times.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 14 2008, 11:58 PM

Insurance co controlled by boss of Public Bank. Low & selective motor insurance business (usually loss making ) compared to Kurnia. They have good japanese partnership and corporate clients.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 14 2008, 09:28 PM

I believe the hedge foreign Funds are back in Malaysia. Now, they can do short selling of shares , right ? ( correct me if i am wrong ). They did that in Year 1997. Do you expect them to be gentlemen this time ?

I thought they have allowed short selling back from Last year ? Can someone kindly reconfirm ?

Can someone please explain what listed companies do with their treasury shares ( shares bought back from open mkt ) ?

a) Distribute back to existing shareholders as windfall ?
b) Re sell back to market for new investment purpose ?
c) just cancel the shares ?

If a & b are workable, it may cause the share price to surge. Also the question of when.

I notice BTOTO is holding these shares. They may want to improve their public image by benefiting the existing shareholders.They are also in the business of buying and selling companies ( DIGI & Prudential for example). What is the general practice adopted by other listed companies in Malaysia?

Anyone out there cares to share ? Thank you in advance.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 15 2008, 08:06 AM

Thank you ,

I think option B stands a chance as they have disposed counters like DIGi and Prudential to FF before. They could place the share in block to foreign funds at a premium, just speculate cos they have online bettings. I think foreign Partner ( like Maxis ) is possible so that money could be injected into BToto can be used for overseas expansion plan. They are planning for Cosway to be listed outside Malaysia or something like that

IOI Properties is moving up . Do not know why ?

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 15 2008, 06:24 PM

Talking about Pbbank, they do have large exposure to Car HP loans now a day. And the market value for cars tend to drop faster than loan outstanding, the risk is still there, but would not think it is going to be a problem like Sub Prime issue cos car loans are of shorter period .

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Jan 20 2008, 01:54 PM

Perhaps you may want to consider the consumer stocks ( non cyclical ) that are defensive in time of economic uncertainty like now. Sometimes, we ask people to defend their wealths at current situation. Amway and Zhulian are parts of them.


The non-cyclical stocks , also called defensive stocks, experience profit regardless of economic gyrations because they produce or distribute goods and services we always need: food, power, water and gas.

The Concept
The difference between cyclical and non-cyclical industries is simply the difference between necessity and luxury. There are certain items we can't live without and won't likely cut back on even when times are tough. The stocks of companies producing these things are non-cyclical and are "defended" against the effects of economic downturn, providing great places to invest when the economic outlook is sour. For example, household non-durable goods - a fancy term for the things you use up quickly around the house - such as toothpaste, soap, shampoo and dish detergent may not seem like essentials, but you can't really sacrifice them. Most people don't feel they can wait until next year to lather up with soap in the shower.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Feb 25 2008, 08:44 AM

If you raise your problem to BN before GE, probably they could re consider.

If a company foresees future profits to be good, then having more Capital Allowances ( buying more vessels ) would be a good tool for them to pay less tax. To charge out against profit as expense ( in the tax computation ).

If let say after claiming all the Capital Allowances ( 100%), then it is always advisible to buy new Assets to claim for new capital allowances again. Most do it on rotational basis.

Old vessels that do not have anymore Capital Allowances left, would lead the company to pay higher tax on profit.

Selling off old vessels at a gain ( low book value left ) would make the financial statements looked attractive also. Large savings on maintenance too. Old Assets that exceed a number of years would have only scrap value left.

Capital gain is not subjected to tax.

OT. The present tax structure may not in the favour of those are expecting dividends bcos of high with holding tax. On the other hand, the Capital gain tax on shares is zero.



Just my 2sen opinion.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 29 2008, 10:20 PM

Tax exempt income could mean ( Capital Gain ) that a company does not have to pay tax .

Likewise when it is distributed out as tax exempt dividends to shareholders , the shareholders cannot claim any tax refund because basically no tax is paid at source ( under the old system ).

Companies must pay tax on profit ( to gain tax credit ). They could not distribute more dividends than actual taxed profit . Otherwise shareholders could get refunds more than tax paid by companies.

Accounting profit is diff from the one used for tax computation. For example, Tax Dept allows a standard Capital allowance Rate of let say 10% for vessels per year, but the rate adopted varied from one company to another. Some may use 5 or 8% or 10% . The companies have the right to come out their accounting policies. There is also a limit of CA placed on cars by tax dept.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 30 2008, 08:24 AM

Totally different. One is return from investment ( profit, reserves etc ). Affects Dividend Per Share. Paid up capital remains the same.

One is to return part of your investments ( or capital ) . Nothing to do with dividend per share. Paid up capital drops . Creditors have rights to object if they are not happy. Mostly needs court approval. Debts free listed companies are able to do so.

Tax wise also diff. The second one ( cap repayment ) is not subjected to tax .

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 8 2008, 11:53 PM

For fund managers or corporate companies, they have to follow the laws and accounting practices. One is adjusting the cost of investments to be lower , and the other is income.

If two are mixed up , then financial crisis could happen. Imagine if you put in 1m into the bank, then the bank would have positive cash flow in their account, then bank accountant would report your 1m as their profit. Can it be done ?

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 9 2008, 12:26 AM

Advantage could be

let say you put in 50 sen to buy a share, then co pays you back 45sen. Then you still the same number of shares , but at lower risk of 5sen only.

Most likely , these companies have cash pile. if they afford to you extra dividends of let say 20sen a share.

So you got back more than you put in, and you still have the same of shares in that co.

If the share is goreng up, then more profit for you. If the co goes bust, you have nothing to lose.

Just one of the examples.

Co assets would be less after paying out from cash piles, so share prices adjusted according to normal practices.
So you are right. What is your worry ?

My concern is that Some Unit Trust Co ( a long time ago ) Use your methods to distribute money back to unit holders, like 15% to 20% ( but 10% is actually out of capital repayment ) . This practice is still on going, but they call it as " distribution " than dividends or investment returns.

Prices of unit trust adjusted accordingly, but investors think they are earning 15% return, even though these companies could suffer losses in some bad years.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 9 2008, 11:51 PM

From past records ( do not present the future ) , the plantations are the safest , seldom have a chance to go bust, esp those with lot of cash piles. Somehow, we cannot call the banks " CASHRICH" bcos they are using depositors' money to multiply their businesses. Look at UK, Government is also involving. No more strong and big like before. Over the local front, eventually only 4 local banks left to operate ( are likely ).

I do not think IOI would go bust too. Nowaday, hard to judge on banks, NPLs are on the rise. With the computers, the ratio of multiplying deposit/loan could be higher than those old days.

Correct me if I am wrong.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 9 2008, 11:48 PM

I think generally companies cannot afford to pay out good dividends from now on or next year. CASH could be the mere weapon for them to survive in bad times.

They could also consider the chances that they could miss if big bargains coming next year or so.

Just 2sen opinion.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 10 2008, 10:14 AM