Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Ukraine is Very Beneficial, the Best Investment

views
     
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 12:30 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Nov 29 2025, 11:36 AM)
NATO plans to place nuclear missiles right next to the Russia border if Ukraine joins NATO.

Ever heard of Cuban missile crisis?

When the U.S.S.R. tried to place its nuke missiles one thousand miles away from America's border, America quickly threatened to conquer Cuba within days.

But luckily U.S.S.R. doesn't want to drag Cuba into war, so they withdraws their nuclear missiles from Cuban soil.

Same shait, but this time Russia has already warned repeatedly not to expand NATO to their borders, NATO which was created to counter the U.S.S.R power, but somehow instead of following the agreement made, they keep expanding NATO.

If America has the right to wage war on a country that is one thousand miles away to prevent nuclear missiles from being placed there, why can't Russia?

Unlucky for Ukraine, America wants the war, because it is the best investment.
*
Like how nato could put nukes in sweden now, or in latvia ten years ago?
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 01:17 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 2 2025, 12:42 PM)
NATO highly recommended to place nuclear as deterrence.

https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/deterren...uclear%20forces
*
which part of it says they're going to place nukes as you said?
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 01:36 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 2 2025, 01:26 PM)
It is highly recommended, what more do you want?

Already admitted that killing Russians and weakening their military is beneficial to the war cartels, the best investment.

Ukraine didn't join NATO, and they already received nonstop "assistance" from the NATO & US.
*
ok, so which part of that page said it was 'highly recommended'?
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 01:55 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 2 2025, 01:43 PM)
Lol everything also need to be spoonfeed.

You read the link I provided from NATO's own page, the first paragraph:

https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/deterren...licy-and-forces

Core components, understood?
*
yet nothing said it plans to add more nukes, place nukes closer to any countries, nor highly recommends. all your own words.

in fact, the page says:

QUOTE
NATO is fully committed to arms control, disarmament and non-proliferation. Since the height of the Cold War, it has reduced the size of its land-based nuclear weapons stockpile by over 90 per cent, reducing the number of nuclear weapons stationed in Europe and its reliance on nuclear weapons in strategy.


there's fewer nukes than before. so how?
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 02:07 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 2 2025, 02:03 PM)
The core component to make an ICE car to drive is what?

Fuel? Engine? Wheels?

If you take out one of the core components, does the ICE car work?

Then all 3 are highly recommended to make the ICE car work right?

So the core components translate to highly recommended.

And now ICE cars are fewer with EVs in the market.

Everything also needs to be spoonfed, unbelievable.
*
so youre just going to gloss over the 90% reduction in nukes eh?
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 02:26 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 2 2025, 02:15 PM)
I already answered the highly recommended part, now you are trying to shift the goal post again.

Core components, but now many new weapons have been invented, see Ukraine has been the battleground to test out all these new weapons and clear out old stockpile by NATO.

But weird thing is, Ukraine didn't even join NATO yet.
*
Nope, you literally had to make up a definition on a page that doesnt match your argument, then ignoring the fact that the rest of the page doesnt match your 'definition'. How is it 'highly recommended' but you reduce yhe number of nukes?

Using your example of a car, an engine is a core component of a car but it doesnt mean that it becomes "highly recommended" to slap on six more engines on your car. That is a retarded argument.

So assuming youre not driving around a car with 6 engines and 17 wheels, i think a normal person wouldnt equate 'core component' with 'highly recommended'.
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 02:47 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 2 2025, 02:31 PM)
Lol, you just answered it yourself with your own statement above.

You don't need many nukes as a deterrence, nevertheless it is highly recommended to have it, it is NATO's core component for defense and deterrence.

Only need 1 engine as a core component to make a car drive, you don't need too many.
*
precisely - so how do point at a document that says that nukes are a 'core component' that "you dont need too many", and say that this document says that they're going to put more nukes?

Youre saying nato "highly recommends" nukes, but there are at the same time 90% fewer nukes than when nato started, theres only very few countries that host them (none of them anywhere near russia), and theres no plans to install any new bases for nukes, including in countries that are already nato members.

Does that sound right?

This post has been edited by empyreal: Dec 2 2025, 02:56 PM
empyreal
post Dec 2 2025, 03:45 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 2 2025, 03:22 PM)
Then it is NATO's own fault, for putting a conflicting statement on their own official website.

Nevertheless it is a core component for defense and deterrence, logically it is.
*
> "my logic doesnt make sense, so it must be other people's fault."


empyreal
post Dec 3 2025, 11:28 AM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 3 2025, 08:45 AM)
You yourself have low comprehension, already stated in the first paragraph nuclear is a core component for defense and deterrence.

Trying hard to refute NATO's own admissions, they have a nuclear sharing program.
NATO itself admitted in the first paragraph on their page that it is a core component for defense and deterrence.

That's why America doesn't dare to invade North Korea, they are trying to use South Korea as a proxy war.

Remember the South Korean president went crazy and blocked the Parliament session?
They didn't drop bombs on Libya with depleted uranium bombs, also they provided humanitarian assistance immediately.

They work under the banner of the U.N, mostly with humanitarian assistance.

That's why Libyan casualties don't reach millions like in Iraq.
Ukraine didn't even join NATO yet, and look at all the "assistance" they are getting.

It is a NATO core component for defense and deterrence for a reason.
*
Lets recap the convo:

> "nato wants to put nukes on russia's border. This nato page says so."
> does it actually say so?
> "no, but it says 'highly recommends'."
> does it actually say 'highly recommends'?
> "no, but it says 'core component'."
> does core component mean nato will add more nukes?
> "no, the page says theres 90% fewer nukes since the cold war."
> does core component mean nato will build more nuke bases?
> "no, none of nato's new members since the end of the cold war host nukes."
> does the page say anything about putting nukes in ukraine?
> "no."
> so what does the page have to do with your argument?
> "err... its nato's fault that the page i linked doesnt support my argument."

This post has been edited by empyreal: Dec 3 2025, 11:31 AM
empyreal
post Dec 3 2025, 07:12 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 3 2025, 05:55 PM)
Where is your source that Qatar and UAE provided their military asset to bomb Libya?
It is NATO's core components for defense and deterrence, as stated on first paragraph, it is clear cut, why you people still think that it is not impossible for Ukraine to apply for it is beneath me.

Even when Ukraine is not part of NATO, you can clearly see how much weapons and "assistance" being funnel to Ukraine with ease since day one.
https://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic...uclear-sharing/
*
The same page also said nato pursues non-proliferation, reduction of nukes in europe, and less reliance on nuclear weapons in its strategy.

So how?
empyreal
post Dec 3 2025, 10:01 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 3 2025, 08:35 PM)
The first paragraph still says it is a core component for defense and deterrence, no matter how you try to twist and turn.

That's why the US didn't dare to try to conquer North Korea as they plan to do with Venezuela, they try to use South Korea as a proxy.

Still remember the crazy president in South Korea blocking the parliamentary process?
Nice way to goal shift, hebat!

I said NATO France bombed Libya using depleted uranium, and you try to insinuate that other countries also do the same in Libya.

Those things destroy farm land for good.
*
no one's saying that its not a core component, its just that at the same time nato is also actively reducing nukes and relying less on it as a strategy - all points raised in the page (and contradicts your point). 'twisting and turning' is telling people to just read one para and ignore everything else on the page, which as i said before, is a retarded way of thinking.

in fact, the page you gave disproves your original post: you say nato plans to put nukes, the page you give literally says nato wants to reduce nukes and rely less on them.


empyreal
post Dec 3 2025, 11:57 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 3 2025, 11:36 PM)
First paragraph still says nuclear is a core component to defense and deterrence, logically it is.

Trying hard to deny the first paragraph is a funny attempt, lol.

Core component = highly recommended as defense and deterrence.
*
not sure if your denial makes you read things wrong, but...

QUOTE
no one's saying that its not a core component


the only thing everyone is disputing is you desperately hinging your entire argument on one paragraph and ignoring everything else on the same page, simply to try to make your own interpretation work. guy really thinks that not scrolling down means it doesnt exist.

let's see whether AI can help you - 'does nato recommend nukes for ukraine?'

QUOTE
Good question. Short answer: no — NATO does not recommend giving nuclear weapons to Ukraine. Its publicly stated position is quite the opposite.


see, even AI gets it, lol
empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 12:27 AM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 12:12 AM)
Because Ukraine is not part of NATO yet, so the A.I answered it logically.

And you expect for US or NATO to reveal their future plan for Ukraine once they join NATO ahead of time? Ridiculous.

But you could already see so many kinds of weapons and "assistance" being given to Ukraine nonstop even before they join NATO.

Almost everyone thought Russia could defeat Ukraine easily, but NATO & US meddling have prolonged the war for this long.
*
> "nato plans to put nukes in ukraine!"
> do you have proof of that?
> "you expect nato to reveal their future plan?"

lol
empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 07:40 AM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 01:01 AM)
Laugh at yourself, I already proved that it is highly recommended to place nuclear as a deterrence.

It is entirely possible for Ukraine to request a nuclear sharing program under the NATO banner as Poland did.

I already provided NATO's official page, the first paragraph already stated that nuclear is a core component of defense and deterrence.

Yet here you are still trying hard to shift the goal post like a sore loser. So hilarious.
*
> reading the whole document you yourself gave = shifting goal posts

Guy thinks the whole world is wrong before he himself is wrong lol
empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 10:44 AM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 10:30 AM)
I already proved my point, but clearly, you just can't call it a day, trying hard to keep shifting the goal post.

NATO official site, first paragraph, thanks for playing.
*
Guy doesnt even realise that the first paragraph also has nato's commitment to arms control and non-proliferation.

Inb4 "noooooo... dont look at the first para, just look at the fist sentence only!"
empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 11:06 AM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 10:50 AM)
You asked me to prove where it says that NATO recommends nuclear as a deterrence, I provided NATO's own official page, in the first paragraph, nuclear is a core component to defense and deterrence.

Yet you are still trying hard to shift the goal post, hahaha, so pathetic lol.
*
No, what i asked was:

QUOTE(empyreal @ Dec 2 2025, 01:17 PM)
which part of it says they're going to place nukes as you said?
*
Four pages later and still no answer. Words like 'highly recommend' and all that are your words.

You literally got confused with your own twisting lol
empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 11:19 AM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 11:13 AM)
Because having nuclear weapons in Ukraine once they join NATO is the ONLY deterrence against Russia force from invading them

Because NATO highly recommends it as a deterrence.

That's why Russia rushed in to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO.

See Poland do it too, as deterrence.
https://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic...uclear-sharing/
*
Is that your assumption, or is that in the page you gave?

Dont have to start twisting by bringing in poland (they also dont have nukes) and other websites. We've been talking about one single page for the whole thread.

Its an easy question: which part of that nato page says that theyre going to place nukes in ukraine as you said?
empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 11:32 AM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 11:24 AM)
Not assumptions, NATO itself says it is a core component for defense and deterrence in the first paragraph.

Every NATO member can request a nuclear sharing program.

If Ukraine joins NATO, requesting nuclear weapons for defense and deterrence might save them from being invaded.

But Russia rushes in to prevent it from happening.
*
Since when "can request" means "nato plans to"? You can ask for a promotion at work, doesnt mean that your company plans to promote you. What a poor argument.

I repeat again: which part of that nato page says that theyre going to place nukes in ukraine as you said?
empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 03:09 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 01:40 PM)
Then why do Ukrainian politicians diehard want to join NATO when they know Russia is completely against the idea?

They are expecting NATO protection right? And one of NATO's core components to defense and deterrence is nuclear.

Also fyi, Ukraine is no longer a sovereign nation, no longer a democratic nation, they already killed or imprisoned most of the opposition in Ukraine right when the war started, to make sure the war will go on as planned.

Like how the South Korean president was trying to block the parliamentary session to start a war with North Korea.

If they kill all opposition in South Korea, they can guarantee war with North Korea, like how Ukraine did it.
It doesn't cause as much harm for many decades like Agent Orange or depleted uranium.

You can easily remove the lead without protective gear.

Depleted uranium and Agent Orange will cause harm to newborn babies for more than half a century or more.

You are basically trying to harm future generations with those kinds of weapons, so evil beyond words.
*
Sounds like you think nuclear-sharing means ukraine gets control of nukes.

You do realise that even if nato placed nukes on ukraine, and ukraine is a nato member, the only power that can use the nukes is the one contributing the nuke itself (usually the us) right? You fail to realise that being in nato itself is a deterrent - notice how russia has issues eith many of its neighbours apart from those who are already in nato.

Because with or without nukes, putin doesnt dare to touch nato.

All the right of your rambling doesnt have to do with the main question, which you still havent answered: where in that page does it say nato wants to put nukes in ukraine?


empyreal
post Dec 4 2025, 03:58 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
2,036 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
From: KL


QUOTE(smsid @ Dec 4 2025, 03:55 PM)
Depleted uranium, uranium?

Even its decay stable form is lead.
Yep, Putin will not dare, NATO countries are well protected.

That's why Putin thinks he could beat Ukraine easily before Ukraine joined NATO, but he miscalculated, Ukraine since day one already received US and NATO help in weapons, assistance, propaganda campaign, and intelligence since day one of the war.

You heard Lindsay Graham say, the only way Ukraine will lose the war is if they pull the plug out.


Because NATO's core components for defense and deterrence are nuclear, which is what Ukraine is seeking by joining NATO.
*
No need to type so much, just answer the question lol

2 Pages  1 2 >Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0153sec    0.54    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 7th December 2025 - 09:47 AM