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 Don’t teach English too early, says academic

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TS30624770
post Sep 25 2025, 09:46 PM, updated 3 months ago

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UPSI associate professor Azizah Zain says children should first master the Malay language before focusing on other languages.

UPSI associate professor Azizah Zain called on schools to reaffirm Malay as the main medium of instruction, with English taught as a supplementary subject.
PETALING JAYA: Children should master the Malay language up to the ages of seven or eight before focusing on other languages such as English, says an academic.

In a Harian Metro report, Universiti Pendidikan Sultan Idris (UPSI) associate professor Azizah Zain said the growing trend of urban pupils using English as their main spoken language could undermine the nation’s cultural identity.

Azizah, a senior lecturer at the university’s early childhood education department, said Malay should be firmly established as both the mother tongue and national language before children move on to a second language.

“English is undeniably important, but when it becomes the dominant language in daily communication, we must ask ourselves whether this threatens the role of Malay as the national language,” she said.

“Mastering two languages is beneficial, but we must remember that the hierarchy of languages is important in early childhood development. Malay should first be firmly established before children move on to a second language.

“Malay is not merely a means of communication; it embodies our cultural identity. Children who grow up more comfortable in English may lose touch with the values and nuances embedded in the Malay language.”

Azizah acknowledged that English offers advantages such as global communication skills, access to knowledge and better job prospects.

To counter this, she urged parents to instil a love for Malay at home by encouraging their children to think in the language and exposing them to traditional literature like pantun, syair and folktales.

Azizah also called on schools to reaffirm Malay as the main medium of instruction, with English taught as a supplementary subject.

Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim has consistently underlined the importance of strengthening English skills nationwide. Earlier this month, he urged the education ministry to intensify initiatives aimed at improving English proficiency, describing it as vital to Malaysia’s global competitiveness.

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...HhG6W8kVGN8tF_Q

Sichiri
post Sep 25 2025, 09:47 PM

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QUOTE
In a Harian Metro report, Universiti Pendidikan Sultan Idris (UPSI) associate professor Azizah Zain said the growing trend of urban pupils using English as their main spoken language could undermine the nation’s cultural identity.


ok bro *walk away*
Phoenix_KL
post Sep 25 2025, 09:49 PM

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race first, knowledge later lol

The best age to learn a language: What the research says The critical period hypothesis (CPH) is one of the most well-known. CPH says that to learn a language to a native level, you must start learning it before you're nine years old. These first nine years are the critical age for learning a language.
https://www.busuu.com/en/languages/best-age-learn

The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, or linguistic relativity, proposes that the structure of a language influences a speaker's perception of the world and their thought processes. It exists in strong (language determines thought) and weak (language influences or shapes thought) versions, with the latter being more widely accepted, suggesting that language provides frameworks for understanding reality but doesn't completely limit them.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psycho...ltural%20levels.


This post has been edited by Phoenix_KL: Sep 25 2025, 09:57 PM
smallbug
post Sep 25 2025, 09:49 PM

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well blimey....
nasiputih
post Sep 25 2025, 09:52 PM

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ban children below 7yo from speaking england. if caught, jailtime.
RT8081
post Sep 25 2025, 09:53 PM

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Soon, no need to learn English in primary school
haturaya
post Sep 25 2025, 09:54 PM

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Another bodo kangkung professor. Eh, associate professor. Not even a full professor.
CeDhhVss
post Sep 25 2025, 09:55 PM

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I plan to use English as main language with my kid

You blow?
Roman Catholic
post Sep 25 2025, 09:57 PM

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Why not just say reject English ? We understand you fucking anemiac.
smallgiant
post Sep 25 2025, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Sep 25 2025, 09:57 PM)
Why not just say reject English ? We understand you fucking anemiac.
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wtf is anemiac
Roman Catholic
post Sep 25 2025, 10:02 PM

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QUOTE(smallgiant @ Sep 25 2025, 09:59 PM)
wtf is anemiac
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Brain not receiving sufficient oxygen, so the brain can't fuckin function normally
ray123
post Sep 25 2025, 10:03 PM

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>>whether this threatens the role of Malay

Pray tell, how. Everything official is Malay-first, and majority of the population is also Malay.
malz89
post Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM

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She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
danielmckey
post Sep 25 2025, 10:05 PM

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Ya. Jual Nasi Lemak atau Ramly Burger dulu.
Slowpokeking
post Sep 25 2025, 10:05 PM

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No.
smallgiant
post Sep 25 2025, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(Phoenix_KL @ Sep 25 2025, 09:49 PM)
race first, knowledge later lol
japan, korean, france etc. no english no problem why we so special?

6942nole
post Sep 25 2025, 10:06 PM

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Bahasa and English is almost LPPL, ABC only.
if you want your kid speaks Mandarin, you should not start English first.

netmatrix
post Sep 25 2025, 10:06 PM

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We must all talk and use Malay all the time.

But when we buy stuff, we must buy white people stuff.

Shows the guy below.

user posted image
NotAnotherNick
post Sep 25 2025, 10:40 PM

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learn bahasa wicet dulu
Chrix
post Sep 25 2025, 10:42 PM

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Might as well be born in caves...
smallgiant
post Sep 25 2025, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(Chrix @ Sep 25 2025, 10:42 PM)
Might as well be born in caves...
*
Students learn English at various ages worldwide, but early childhood (ages 4-6) and primary school (ages 7-12) are common for foundational learning through fun and interactive methods. Some countries also begin formal English education in secondary school, around age 13 or later. There is no single worldwide standard, as the starting age, curriculum, and intensity of English language instruction vary significantly by country, region, and individual circumstances.
Taikor.Taikun
post Sep 25 2025, 10:46 PM

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What's next? Shorten English class. Next, ban English in primary schools. Next, ban English in secondary schools. Next, total ban.
TruboXL
post Sep 25 2025, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(malz89 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM)
She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
*
Again with Japan and Korea

They are not successful because of their language

They are successful because they are able to export / promote interest into their culture with their language

Unfortunately Malay lang is in the reverse route keep borrowing English words and loosing its identity. What's more there was proposal you can get fine if used wrongly. Lol
countingcrows
post Sep 25 2025, 10:52 PM

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No comment. 😁
xHj09
post Sep 25 2025, 10:53 PM

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Highly support.

Then when all keep failing job interviews in the future, can help fill up low skilled jobs vacancy.
smallgiant
post Sep 25 2025, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(TruboXL @ Sep 25 2025, 10:50 PM)
Unfortunately Malay lang is in the reverse route keep borrowing English words and loosing its identity. What's more there was proposal you can get fine if used wrongly. Lol
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borrow english salah, use malay words like swafoto salah sad.gif
Schumacher
post Sep 25 2025, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(malz89 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM)
She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
*
It’s already very difficult to make changes now. This should have started right after 1969 with the abolition of vernacular schools. At this point it’s too late to change especially as the NON population is also getting smaller and smaller. Another big problem is that people here don’t share the same culture or hobbies. Unlike Thailand, Japan or Korea where most people speak the same language and like the same singers and artists but our people have very different interests.
Lancer07
post Sep 25 2025, 11:11 PM

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Some people never failed to show off their sense of insecurity and low self-esteem...
malz89
post Sep 25 2025, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(TruboXL @ Sep 25 2025, 10:50 PM)
Again with Japan and Korea

They are not successful because of their language

They are successful because they are able to export / promote interest into their culture with their language

Unfortunately Malay lang is in the reverse route keep borrowing English words and loosing its identity. What's more there was proposal you can get fine if used wrongly. Lol
*
Yeah I agree. So basically malay is useless. It is just a mean to keep stupid people stupid. And most importantly it is a way to promote politics. Malaysia will regress further soon. Politicians will always try ways to stay in power. To do so, they have to pander the majority. It will be hard to move forward if people are not willing to change due to their prince status.
malz89
post Sep 25 2025, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(Schumacher @ Sep 25 2025, 10:58 PM)
It’s already very difficult to make changes now. This should have started right after 1969 with the abolition of vernacular schools. At this point it’s too late to change especially as the NON population is also getting smaller and smaller. Another big problem is that people here don’t share the same culture or hobbies. Unlike Thailand, Japan or Korea where most people speak the same language and like the same singers and artists but our people have very different interests.
*
Even malay is becoming bahasa rempit. So what's the point of learning the language if the emphasis of learning it right is not there anymore.
coconutxyz
post Sep 25 2025, 11:18 PM

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Yes pls, also ban xxxx from sending their kids to Chinese school
tekkaus
post Sep 25 2025, 11:22 PM

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Ahahahahahaha biggrin.gif

But...yeah...Bahasa Malaysia is my first language.
Izzet
post Sep 25 2025, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(netmatrix @ Sep 25 2025, 10:06 PM)
We must all talk and use Malay all the time.

But when we buy stuff, we must buy white people stuff.

Shows the guy below.

user posted image
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No wonder can buy.. House got 171million multiple currencies sotre kat rumah
B0ss_ku
post Sep 25 2025, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(malz89 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM)
She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
*
Amda boleh mulakan dengan menaip Dalam Bahasa Melayu
blanket84
post Sep 25 2025, 11:26 PM

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Learning English is still okay. After all it is a common language that you see everywhere in Malaysia.

The bigger issue is learning Arabs in such young age. Even parents couldn’t help their kids with understanding the language since most of them has minimal knowledge in the language.

SUSEX Unseen Forces
post Sep 25 2025, 11:33 PM

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Whatever. Rakyat still vote PN next GE whistling.gif
DoomCognition
post Sep 25 2025, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(Phoenix_KL @ Sep 25 2025, 09:49 PM)
race first, knowledge later lol

The best age to learn a language: What the research says The critical period hypothesis (CPH) is one of the most well-known. CPH says that to learn a language to a native level, you must start learning it before you're nine years old. These first nine years are the critical age for learning a language.
https://www.busuu.com/en/languages/best-age-learn

The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, or linguistic relativity, proposes that the structure of a language influences a speaker's perception of the world and their thought processes. It exists in strong (language determines thought) and weak (language influences or shapes thought) versions, with the latter being more widely accepted, suggesting that language provides frameworks for understanding reality but doesn't completely limit them. 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psycho...ltural%20levels.
*
The quality of our professors are just pure SH!T. Honestly, I have very little respect for professors who only have local qualifications.
DoomCognition
post Sep 25 2025, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(6942nole @ Sep 25 2025, 10:06 PM)
Bahasa and English is almost LPPL, ABC only.
if you want your kid speaks Mandarin, you should not start English first.
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Uhh... No. Why not?
Efalex
post Sep 25 2025, 11:55 PM

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Ban Internet unless they use BM....
SUSjom.lepak
post Sep 25 2025, 11:56 PM

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Insecure of losing native language? KEK
ry8128
post Sep 26 2025, 12:00 AM

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Lol, so now this is the modus operandi? I bodo xpe, janji I buat undang2 utk tarik semua org jadi bodo mcm I, lulz.
p4n6
post Sep 26 2025, 12:03 AM

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Dewan Bahasa shall not change malay word to english for a start …
smallgiant
post Sep 26 2025, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Sep 26 2025, 12:00 AM)
Lol, so now this is the modus operandi? I bodo xpe, janji I buat undang2 utk tarik semua org jadi bodo mcm I, lulz.
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Don't know English you're automatically bodoh meh? MY is really weird.
ry8128
post Sep 26 2025, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(smallgiant @ Sep 26 2025, 12:03 AM)
Don't know English you're automatically bodoh meh? MY is really weird.
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Thanks for telling us you are bodo without saying 'I am bodo'.
abm
post Sep 26 2025, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(malz89 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM)
She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
*
You seriously don’t “see” why we should learn English, or you’re afraid of loosing Malay identity if English becomes more popular?
Already merdeka so many years, you still have penjajah mentality.

smallgiant
post Sep 26 2025, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Sep 26 2025, 12:04 AM)
Thanks for telling us you are bodo without saying 'I am bodo'.
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Thx bigot.
damonlbs
post Sep 26 2025, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(smallgiant @ Sep 26 2025, 12:03 AM)
Don't know English you're automatically bodoh meh? MY is really weird.
*
because its limits you to BM only

how much data and information is not in BM

because of that they can keep brainwash you using propaganda because you cannot compare information to other source

This post has been edited by damonlbs: Sep 26 2025, 12:27 AM
hcmalaya
post Sep 26 2025, 12:32 AM

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Katak dibawah tempurung
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When it comes what to build towards for Education, just look at what the upper class is doing for their kids (and definitely not what they're saying).

Di kampung halaman jaguh pejuang bangsa negara tanah air, at the same time anak hantar international school in France.
smallgiant
post Sep 26 2025, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(damonlbs @ Sep 26 2025, 12:24 AM)
because its limits you to BM only

how much data and information is not in BM

because of that they can keep brainwash you using propaganda because you cannot compare information to other source
*
Einstein's first language was german so you go figure. whistling.gif:
damonlbs
post Sep 26 2025, 12:36 AM

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QUOTE(smallgiant @ Sep 26 2025, 12:34 AM)
Einstein's first language was german so you go figure. whistling.gif:
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malaysia is a world power?
smallgiant
post Sep 26 2025, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(damonlbs @ Sep 26 2025, 12:36 AM)
malaysia is a world power?
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He had no access to Ingrish materials man, so be must be retarded.
damonlbs
post Sep 26 2025, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(smallgiant @ Sep 26 2025, 12:45 AM)
He had no access to Ingrish materials man, so be must be retarded.
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malaysia have Einstein level physics scientists?
smallgiant
post Sep 26 2025, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(damonlbs @ Sep 26 2025, 12:50 AM)
malaysia have Einstein level physics scientists?
*
After a decade of PPSMI (Pengajaran dan Pembelajaran Sains dan Matematik Dalam Bahasa Inggeris) we should have, wonder what went wrong hmm.gif
damonlbs
post Sep 26 2025, 01:31 AM

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QUOTE(smallgiant @ Sep 26 2025, 01:16 AM)
After a decade of PPSMI (Pengajaran dan Pembelajaran Sains dan Matematik Dalam Bahasa Inggeris) we should have, wonder what went wrong hmm.gif
*
yup what when wrong
abelyap
post Sep 26 2025, 01:55 AM

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QUOTE(malz89 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM)
She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
*
But Japan and Korea culture is different- hardworking
abelyap
post Sep 26 2025, 02:02 AM

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QUOTE(DoomCognition @ Sep 25 2025, 11:51 PM)
The quality of our professors are just pure SH!T. Honestly, I have very little respect for professors who only have local qualifications.
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Another making claim without data to support
Madam kuda je
Phoenix_KL
post Sep 26 2025, 02:39 AM

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AI Overview
Children Use Both Brain Hemispheres to Understand Language ...
The brain areas involved in learning a second language include Broca's area for speech production and Wernicke's area for comprehension, both located in the left hemisphere. How these areas are utilized depends on age: young children typically integrate a second language with their native tongue in the same Broca's area, while adult learners often develop a separate Broca's area for the new language. The corpus callosum, which connects the brain's hemispheres, also plays a role in integrating information between languages.


Age of Acquisition Matters

Bilingual from Birth:
When children acquire a second language early in life, they often store it within the same language networks as their native language.

Adult Learners:
Adults who learn a new language often create a separate, adjacent Broca's area for the new language, distinct from the area used for their first language.


Changes in Brain Structure

Denser Grey Matter:
Bilingual individuals often show increased density of grey matter, the part of the brain rich in nerve cells, indicating a healthier and more robust language processing system.

Improved White Matter:
Learning a second language also changes the brain's white matter, enhancing the efficiency and speed of neural connections throughout the brain's network.
Brain Rewiring:
The brain's neural structures physically adapt and rewire as a person becomes more proficient in a new language, particularly in areas related to processing, comprehension, and production.


https://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/15/science/...wo-systems.html

This post has been edited by Phoenix_KL: Sep 26 2025, 03:12 AM
quintesson
post Sep 26 2025, 03:46 AM

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While those politicians sending their children to international school or overseas to study English first.
Why not make it compulsory for all politicians' children to study in Malaysia only since they are the one making policies for the best education in Malaysia?
DarkAeon
post Sep 26 2025, 04:05 AM

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i can't take our academics seriously after a few major fak ups
takbodoh722
post Sep 26 2025, 06:46 AM

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yes, should teach english in bahasa.

*sarcasm off*
DoomCognition
post Sep 26 2025, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(abelyap @ Sep 26 2025, 02:02 AM)
Another making claim without data to support
Madam kuda je
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Evidence is right in this thread. Denial mode much?
hoonanoo
post Sep 26 2025, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(haturaya @ Sep 25 2025, 09:54 PM)
Another bodo kangkung professor. Eh, associate professor. Not even a full professor.
*
from the same stupiak uni that can't even manage their public transport arrangement safely
SUSBlackscreamerz
post Sep 26 2025, 09:36 AM

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if the non follow this kind of advice, then BI will become third language liao.


haturaya
post Sep 26 2025, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(hoonanoo @ Sep 26 2025, 09:25 AM)
from the same stupiak uni that can't even manage their public transport arrangement safely
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Yah.. The 'sell' PhD too. whistling.gif Many got 'easy' PhD from there. whistling.gif
hirano
post Sep 26 2025, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(malz89 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM)
She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
*
tell me you bodo or trolling?
akidos
post Sep 26 2025, 11:40 AM

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owh my nipples
jojolicia
post Sep 26 2025, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(abelyap @ Sep 26 2025, 01:55 AM)
But Japan and Korea culture is different- hardworking
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Oouch that hurts
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post Sep 26 2025, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Lancer07 @ Sep 25 2025, 11:11 PM)
Some people never failed to show off their sense of insecurity and low self-esteem...
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This says it all
hoonanoo
post Sep 26 2025, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(haturaya @ Sep 26 2025, 11:30 AM)
Yah.. The 'sell' PhD too.  whistling.gif  Many got 'easy' PhD from there.  whistling.gif
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damn, no wonder
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post Sep 26 2025, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(DoomCognition @ Sep 25 2025, 11:53 PM)
Uhh... No. Why not?
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you can try.
if you are an ABC, you should know the reason.
DoomCognition
post Sep 26 2025, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(6942nole @ Sep 26 2025, 06:55 PM)
you can try.
if you are an ABC, you should know the reason.
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Lol.... It is all about the parents education strategy.

You just haven't seen fluent trilingual children.
Emily Ratajkowski
post Sep 26 2025, 08:20 PM

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Sometimes is wonder how. An sub stupid people become professors.
6942nole
post Sep 26 2025, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(DoomCognition @ Sep 26 2025, 08:13 PM)
Lol.... It is all about the parents education strategy.

You just haven't seen fluent trilingual children.
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good luck and all the best biggrin.gif
DarkAeon
post Sep 26 2025, 08:22 PM

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QUOTE(malz89 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:04 PM)
She's right. Should focus on malay to unite everyone. That's our national language and should be given priority. Why we need bahasa penjajah? We need to master our national language so no one speaks English. We should be like Japan and Korea, they speak their own language yet so successful.
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can't tell this is sarcasm or stupidity hmm.gif
brapa?
post Sep 26 2025, 08:49 PM

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Gila
What profesor is this
Dont knw abt infant brain development
& How they pick up skills & languages
Wht is happening to our country..
fongsk
post Sep 26 2025, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(Emily Ratajkowski @ Sep 26 2025, 08:20 PM)
Sometimes is wonder how. An sub stupid people become professors.
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You do know PhD is Permanent Head Damage, right? 😉
haya
post Oct 2 2025, 09:23 AM

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Sarawak activist slams UPSI professor’s “1970s mentality” on English education
By DayakDaily Team

KUCHING, Sept 28: Sarawak rights activist Peter John Jaban has hit out at Universiti Pendidikan Sultan Idris (UPSI) associate professor Azizah Zain, calling her claim that teaching English too early could hinder children’s development of thinking skills in Malay “arrogance and intellectual poverty at its worst.”

In a strongly worded statement yesterday (Sept 27), Peter John said Azizah’s view reflected an outdated mentality that has long crippled Malaysia’s education system and underscored why Sarawak must take full control of its education under the Malaysia Agreement 1963 (MA63).

Azizah’s mentality belongs in the 1970s. Back then, Malaysia believed that shutting the doors to English would strengthen our identity.

“Instead, it crippled generations and left us behind in science, technology and global competitiveness,” he said.


Peter John pointed out that Sarawak experienced this setback firsthand when the English-medium system was abolished in 1976, leaving indigenous children most affected as they were cut off from opportunities in higher education, science and the wider world, while privileged children of the elite surged ahead.

He further argued that Azizah’s suggestion is “not just wrong but also dangerous,” especially when much of the world is advancing through bilingual education.

And here lies the hypocrisy: the elite already give their children early English through private schools, international schools and tutors. Azizah’s advice only deepens inequality. The poor, rural and indigenous children will pay the price,” he stressed.

Peter John also said that modern research supports early bilingualism, which makes children smarter, more adaptable and better problem solvers.

“Denying them English is not protection, it is robbery,” he remarked.

He emphasised that Sarawak has already made progress through the Dual Language Programme (DLP) by teaching Science and Mathematics in English.

“We are teaching Science and Mathematics in English because we know this is the language of STEM, of global journals, of the internet. That is the future. That is autonomy in action,” he added.

Peter John reiterated that Sarawak will continue to safeguard Bahasa Melayu while preserving indigenous languages, but insisted that the state will not allow “one associate professor, trapped in a failed 1970s mindset” to dictate the destiny of Sarawak’s children.

“To Putrajaya and academics in the peninsula—Sarawak’s education autonomy is not up for debate. It is our right under MA63, and it is the key to our children’s future. If you cannot help us move forward, then step aside and stop holding us back,” he concluded.

In a report by Free Malaysia Today on Sept 25, Azizah was quoted as saying that introducing English too early in schools could hinder children from fully developing their thinking skills in Malay. She suggested that the national language must first serve as the foundation of learning before English is introduced. – DayakDaily

Source: https://dayakdaily.com/sarawak-activist-sla...lish-education/
Akaashi
post Oct 2 2025, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(ray123 @ Sep 25 2025, 10:03 PM)
>>whether this threatens the role of Malay

Pray tell, how. Everything official is Malay-first, and majority of the population is also Malay.
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Becoz they claim Malays younger gen now speak more in English den in BM.

Like, now they feel how the nons feel.

 

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