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 Increasing car taxes can reduce road congestion, Car taxes can reduce car ownership

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TSadala
post Jan 28 2025, 01:12 PM, updated 3w ago

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Increasing car taxes can reduce road congestion

Someone says higher tax can reduce car ownership in Malaysia.
COOLPINK
post Jan 28 2025, 01:18 PM

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Car ownership go down, bike ownership go up.

Owai.....
littlefire
post Jan 28 2025, 01:55 PM

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The best way now is to reduce the fuel subsidies for Ron95, once Ron95 expensive i gurantee less cars on the road. brows.gif
SleeplessEyes
post Jan 28 2025, 02:38 PM

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Malaysia is late to the game.
Singapore has already done it since the 90s

Whereas Malaysia and the car salesman encourage Zero (illegal) down-payment with 9 yrs car loan.

Simply put it, cannot afford a car, use public transport. Or buy a used car within budget.
I'm sure some will say our public transport sucks, hence people opt to buy cars, even if its just to drive few KM only.

QUOTE(littlefire @ Jan 28 2025, 01:55 PM)
The best way now is to reduce the fuel subsidies for Ron95, once Ron95 expensive i gurantee less cars on the road.  brows.gif
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Not so. Remember when Badawi's time (if I recall) introduced floating RON 95 prices which causes both uproar and price of goods increase?
Did it reduce the number of cars. Nope.

its because we are already pampered for decades with cheap fuel price.
Thailand has been surviving with diesel fuel prices around ฿32.94 (around RM 4.28) and Gasohol E85 around ฿32.59 . We have it very fortunate indeed.

https://www.motorist.co.th/en/petrol-prices

Anyhow, Happy Chinese New Year to all and drive safe back home.
littlefire
post Jan 28 2025, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(SleeplessEyes @ Jan 28 2025, 03:38 PM)
Malaysia is late to the game.
Singapore has already done it since the 90s

Whereas Malaysia and the car salesman encourage Zero (illegal) down-payment with 9 yrs car loan.

Simply put it, cannot afford a car, use public transport. Or buy a used car within budget.
I'm sure some will say our public transport sucks, hence people opt to buy cars, even if its just to drive few KM only.
Not so. Remember when Badawi's time (if I recall) introduced floating RON 95 prices which causes both uproar and price of goods increase?
Did it reduce the number of cars. Nope.

its because we are already pampered for decades with cheap fuel price.
Thailand has been surviving with diesel fuel prices around ฿32.94 (around RM 4.28) and Gasohol E85 around ฿32.59 . We have it very fortunate indeed.

https://www.motorist.co.th/en/petrol-prices

Anyhow, Happy Chinese New Year to all and drive safe back home.
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Badawi 1st term PM 2004~2008

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ahmad_Badawi

FYI, google : 2006~2008 car sales volume in malaysia

Year Sales
2005 410,892
2006 374,169
2007 442,885

https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harga_minyak_Malaysia

2005~2006 -> Ron 97 1.62-> 1.92

Who say fuel price no impact on car sales? dry.gif
ktek
post Jan 28 2025, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(littlefire @ Jan 28 2025, 03:19 PM)
Badawi 1st term PM 2004~2008

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ahmad_Badawi

FYI, google : 2006~2008 car sales volume in malaysia

Year Sales
2005 410,892
2006 374,169
2007 442,885

https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harga_minyak_Malaysia

2005~2006 -> Ron 97 1.62-> 1.92

Who say fuel price no impact on car sales?  dry.gif
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sales figure include 2nd used vehicles? prolly exclude rite
ayamxxx
post Jan 28 2025, 03:42 PM

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Always come this expert who licking gomen plan. Why not make it max 5-7 years of car loan purchase if really want to reduce car purchase no.
ru40342
post Jan 28 2025, 05:28 PM

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Whoever this guy is, he probably never studied economics 101 (or even high school economics). It just won't work effectively.

Raising car prices (via car taxes or price floor or whatever price raising method) would not work due to the low elasticity of demand towards price among car users in Malaysia. Raising prices may reduce road congestion slightly but the effect should be negligible. The real benefit of this policy is the increased tax revenue by the government (provided it is properly used).

Malaysians are not just having low price elasticity of demand for cars, but low elasticity of car usage. The heavy traffic congestion, the lack of parking, the issue of double parking blocking our way etc. seem to have no effect in slowing down car ownership effectively.

tl;dr It is an ineffective way and this guy needs to understand basic economics before suggesting such policy.

Edit: This article mentions public transportation. I regularly travel from Sg Besi toll to PJ and Sunway. Even during rush hours, taking public transportation is no cheaper and no faster than driving (bear in mind Serdang Raya Utara station is literally next to Sg Best toll and my work places are just a few hundred meters from lrt stations.). Hence, even the most ideal conditions (rush hour, no buses involved, destinations are near train stations etc.) taking public transportation is still more expensive and slower than if I drive myself...

This post has been edited by ru40342: Jan 28 2025, 06:42 PM
Icehart
post Jan 29 2025, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(ru40342 @ Jan 28 2025, 05:28 PM)
Whoever this guy is, he probably never studied economics 101 (or even high school economics). It just won't work effectively.

Raising car prices (via car taxes or price floor or whatever price raising method) would not work due to the low elasticity of demand towards price among car users in Malaysia. Raising prices may reduce road congestion slightly but the effect should be negligible. The real benefit of this policy is the increased tax revenue by the government (provided it is properly used).

Malaysians are not just having low price elasticity of demand for cars, but low elasticity of car usage. The heavy traffic congestion, the lack of parking, the issue of double parking blocking our way etc. seem to have no effect in slowing down car ownership effectively.

tl;dr It is an ineffective way and this guy needs to understand basic economics before suggesting such policy.

Edit: This article mentions public transportation. I regularly travel from Sg Besi toll to PJ and Sunway. Even during rush hours, taking public transportation is no cheaper and no faster than driving (bear in mind Serdang Raya Utara station is literally next to Sg Best toll and my work places are just a few hundred meters from lrt stations.). Hence, even the most ideal conditions (rush hour, no buses involved, destinations are near train stations etc.) taking public transportation is still more expensive and slower than if I drive myself...
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Cheaper than RM 50 pass?
danielmckey
post Jan 29 2025, 05:19 PM

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Malaysian mentality is reverse engineering. More expansive, more people to buy. Cheaper mean people will look at you as B40.
Roman Catholic
post Jan 29 2025, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(ru40342 @ Jan 28 2025, 05:28 PM)
Whoever this guy is, he probably never studied economics 101 (or even high school economics). It just won't work effectively.

Raising car prices (via car taxes or price floor or whatever price raising method) would not work due to the low elasticity of demand towards price among car users in Malaysia. Raising prices may reduce road congestion slightly but the effect should be negligible. The real benefit of this policy is the increased tax revenue by the government (provided it is properly used).

Malaysians are not just having low price elasticity of demand for cars, but low elasticity of car usage. The heavy traffic congestion, the lack of parking, the issue of double parking blocking our way etc. seem to have no effect in slowing down car ownership effectively.

tl;dr It is an ineffective way and this guy needs to understand basic economics before suggesting such policy.

Edit: This article mentions public transportation. I regularly travel from Sg Besi toll to PJ and Sunway. Even during rush hours, taking public transportation is no cheaper and no faster than driving (bear in mind Serdang Raya Utara station is literally next to Sg Best toll and my work places are just a few hundred meters from lrt stations.). Hence, even the most ideal conditions (rush hour, no buses involved, destinations are near train stations etc.) taking public transportation is still more expensive and slower than if I drive myself...
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I know that the elasticity depends on price and demand but I have never heard of low elasticity of car usage. Where did you learn this economic theory from ? Please elaborate in more detail as I am interested to learn about this new theory.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Jan 29 2025, 05:42 PM
ru40342
post Jan 29 2025, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Jan 29 2025, 05:16 PM)
Cheaper than RM 50 pass?
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I don't travel everyday. At most 2 times a week and sometimes a few times a month. Furthermore, the RM50 pass is a promotion. I am referring to the official price of prasarana on regular price.
ru40342
post Jan 29 2025, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Jan 29 2025, 05:40 PM)
I know that the elasticity depends on price and demand but I have never heard of low elasticity of car usage. Where did you learn this economic theory from ? Please elaborate in more detail as I am interested to learn about this new theory.
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Elasticity is just a general term of the percentage impact of a variable (known generally as independent variable) to another variable (dependent variable).

Price elasticity of demand is the measurement of the percentage impact of price to quantity demanded. We usually learn it at elementary level of economics but the term elasticity can be used to measure the percentage impact of anything to another thing.

It is very commonly used in econometric and intermediate/ advanced economics.

This post has been edited by ru40342: Jan 29 2025, 06:05 PM
Roman Catholic
post Jan 29 2025, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(ru40342 @ Jan 29 2025, 05:52 PM)
Elasticity is just a general term of the degree or percentage impact of a variable (known generally as independent variable) to another variable (dependent variable).

Price elasticity of demand is the measurement of the percentage impact of price to quantity demanded. We usually learn it at elementary level of economics but the term elasticity can be used to measure the impact of anything to another thing.

It is very commonly used to econometric and intermediate/ advanced economics. If you do BSC or BA in economics, you usually learn this term either in year 1 undergrad or year 2.
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So for this situation inelastic car usage is what against what ?
ru40342
post Jan 29 2025, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Jan 29 2025, 05:57 PM)
So for this situation inelastic car usage is what against what ?
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I did list the variables in my post ie. traffic congestion, unavailability of parking etc.
Roman Catholic
post Jan 29 2025, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(ru40342 @ Jan 29 2025, 06:06 PM)
I did list the variables in my post ie. traffic congestion, unavailability of parking etc.
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Ah now I understand what you have been trying to say.
ayamxxx
post Jan 30 2025, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(ru40342 @ Jan 28 2025, 05:28 PM)
Whoever this guy is, he probably never studied economics 101 (or even high school economics). It just won't work effectively.

Raising car prices (via car taxes or price floor or whatever price raising method) would not work due to the low elasticity of demand towards price among car users in Malaysia. Raising prices may reduce road congestion slightly but the effect should be negligible. The real benefit of this policy is the increased tax revenue by the government (provided it is properly used).

Malaysians are not just having low price elasticity of demand for cars, but low elasticity of car usage. The heavy traffic congestion, the lack of parking, the issue of double parking blocking our way etc. seem to have no effect in slowing down car ownership effectively.

tl;dr It is an ineffective way and this guy needs to understand basic economics before suggesting such policy.

Edit: This article mentions public transportation. I regularly travel from Sg Besi toll to PJ and Sunway. Even during rush hours, taking public transportation is no cheaper and no faster than driving (bear in mind Serdang Raya Utara station is literally next to Sg Best toll and my work places are just a few hundred meters from lrt stations.). Hence, even the most ideal conditions (rush hour, no buses involved, destinations are near train stations etc.) taking public transportation is still more expensive and slower than if I drive myself...
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Regular user of MRT Kajang - Ampang Park. Always take their rm50 monthly pass. Sure or not, not save? Sometimes I roughly calculate its similar to when I riding a 110cc motorcycle. RM6 full tank can max 2 days.

Im taking 715-19am at MRT Kajang and arrived at Ampang Park Mamak around 830am for teh tarik with buddies. 1 hour plus for me is faster than driving

This post has been edited by ayamxxx: Jan 30 2025, 09:28 AM
ayamxxx
post Jan 30 2025, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(danielmckey @ Jan 29 2025, 05:19 PM)
Malaysian mentality is reverse engineering. More expansive, more people to buy. Cheaper mean people will look at you as B40.
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If u look at car buyer, they always ask how much is monthly payment. Never bother about the price, about interest rates and if possible can do 100% loan
ru40342
post Jan 30 2025, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(ayamxxx @ Jan 30 2025, 09:27 AM)
Regular user of MRT Kajang - Ampang Park. Always take their rm50 monthly pass. Sure or not, not save? Sometimes I roughly calculate its similar to when I riding a 110cc motorcycle. RM6 full tank can max 2 days.

Im taking 715-19am at MRT Kajang and arrived at Ampang Park Mamak around 830am for teh tarik with buddies. 1 hour plus for me is faster than driving
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I only travel at most 2 times a week. Mostly 1 time a week so RM50 pass is irrelevant. Using regular price, it is RM6.20 1 way, which is not cheaper than if I drive. Also, in my opinion, we should not use heavily discounted pass to determine which is more expensive.

As for the time, from Sg Besi toll to PJ SS14 (Asia Jaya LRT), if I drive, I can reach the destination at most in 1 hour (usually I can reach my destination in 30 to 45 minutes if I didn't travel during the busiest rush hour or 45 to 60 minutes during the midst of rush hour) but if I take LRT (including detour to the serdang raya mrt station and parking, waiting for trains etc.) it would almost certainly take me more time than that.

This post has been edited by ru40342: Jan 30 2025, 09:55 AM
ayamxxx
post Jan 30 2025, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(ru40342 @ Jan 30 2025, 09:51 AM)
I only travel at most 2 times a week. Mostly 1 time a week so RM50 pass is irrelevant. Using regular price, it is RM6.20 1 way, which is not cheaper than if I drive. Also, in my opinion, we should not use heavily discounted pass to determine which is more expensive.

As for the time, from Sg Besi toll to PJ SS14 (Asia Jaya LRT), if I drive, I can reach the destination at most in 1 hour (usually I can reach my destination in 30 to 45 minutes if I didn't travel during the busiest rush hour or 45 to 60 minutes during the midst of rush hour) but if I take LRT (including detour to the serdang raya mrt station and parking, waiting for trains etc.) it would almost certainly take me more time than that.
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I think gomen idea by making the monthly pass is to encourage all take public transport, mrt, lrt. And best most park and ride capped parking fees at rm5.30, this is good. For Kajang MRT first station, the multi level car park is covered.

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