There are some people who insist that Christmas is a season for people ONLY of a specific set of races and faiths in Malaysia.

So here’s a question for you.

Do you think ALL Malaysians (Malays Chinese Indian Orang Asli Dusun Dayak Iban dan lain lain) can or should be able to celebrate Christmas together?

Share this with all your friends of all races

Someone reported this post for some reason!

Lol could be one of those triggered people who can’t stand it when people come together.



It’s a simple and serious question, anonymous acquaintance.
What, are you not happy that someone has decided to address this question out in open for once?

If you think the answer is ‘no’, just answer ‘no’. Simple. 🤭

Oh why so triggered?

Sampai cakap Mensa member pulak (I never mentioned anything but you chose to raise it 😂)

Let me ask another way since you’re so triggered then.

If all Malaysians want to celebrate Christmas together, can and SHOULD they be able to celebrate together with no worries as a time of festive harmony and celebration?

This same poll is on Reddit, btw. The result there is different - which is interesting to see.

Also interesting:

The very first celebration of Christmas in Ministry of Housing and Local Government in Malaysian history.



Inb4 there will be some people screaming SEMUA SALAH DAP while screaming that Malaysians should never be allowed to come together for any reason on the planet when Christmas is just one simple and visible opportunity to come together and the same people choose never to integrate 99.9% of the time while complaining about vernacular schools and how they disrupt national unity when they themselves have never contributed towards national unity, grinches as they are. 😔

The same kinds of people who will ask “ADAKAH INI BUDAYA KITA?!” then release tiktok videos about how they are happy to fail English because they are ‘not British’ 😆

This post has been edited by Exoflare: Dec 23 2024, 06:13 AM

Ah yes. I’m talking directly to those of you who say ‘no’.

You’re totally free to take part in the non religious aspects of Christmas but you are here casually making excuses and trying to emotionally manipulate your fellow Malaysians on the daily, right?

Ask yourself ya.

Why are you so hateful as a person? 😊

Next stage for if you’ve seen these kinds of people:

Why are they so hateful as people, and what can you do about it to either ostracize such people or to take a single daily step forward to mitigate or eliminate their influence upon Malaysia?

This post has been edited by Exoflare: Dec 23 2024, 06:32 AM

I appreciate the sentiment, although I personally disagree.

It was acceptable from the start and the government just recognized it - it’s not justifiable just because the government has come out and done it; it is 100% justifiable because it is the correct thing to do to go out and hang out with your other Malaysian compatriots and not make ridiculous excuses to try to manipulate your friends to not integrate and perpetuate distrust in this country because people want to menunggang all the way.

The kings have already come out to condemn exclusionary behavior in the past, and there should be significantly more escalation in this kind of condemnation and in a fashion that is so rapid and overwhelming in a very short period of time that no attempt to even try to play victim while crying should prevail. 😊

43 yes, 7 no.



That’s a pretty wild difference. I suppose Reddit is just more liberal 🤭

Also this post has been reported multiple times.

Moderators, please understand that how triggered a couple of people are is not really a reason to remove this post because end of the day, this is pretty important for social dialogue and Christmas is a country-wide thing that is celebrated generally, and it’s an opportunity for people to come together and renew ties - not what the walauns would like to characterize as a racial/religious thing when there are thousands of other ways to interpret it.

Quite relevant. Relevance is not for you personally to decide as it is not dependent on your personal standards and what you think matters, because your opinion is about as relevant as the opinion of that one kid who is happy about failing his English exam because he’s ’not British’ LOL

Of course there is a religious aspect. However, are you trying to say that Malaysians shouldn’t participate in Hari Raya, a festival of reflection after Ramadan, or Deepavali, the festival celebrating the victory of light over darkness?

As far as I know, Malaysians have always participated in these traditions across different cultural boundaries, and it is those of us who try to separate us and say we cannot participate in each other’s traditions regardless of religion that should be seen as the enemy within.

Yes, I mean enemy within. I mean that if you are reading this and you are sick of getting manipulated by these kinds of penunggangs, it is time to start considering them as the enemy of your generation and of our nation of Malaysia.

This post has been edited by Exoflare: Dec 23 2024, 08:38 AM

How sweet.

Even after the trolls have voted and MULTIPLE people have tried to report this thread (there were at least five separate instances of reporting), it looks like…




Sorry trolls who want to separate out Malaysians, your efforts aren’t going to work.

Now the question is how Malaysians should identify you and how today’s conversation should extend to all media outlets so that our default culture is that we should, to use some language I borrow from some of you, kecam those of you who want to control other Malaysians while saying that you must not be insulted 😊

Well, I am interested to make it clear amongst the public what people think and what the general educated Malaysian population believes and therefore has an interest in making true across the entirety of Malaysia.

It is not only true here in LYN that separatists who want to stop us from celebrating together should be in the minority. It should be true for ALL of Malaysia as well and I look forward to watching people make that true in their own ways in their own homes and then causing their acquaintances to do the same thing through society.

I hate to invoke that old, tired, and almost MLM-inspired idea of how if a person goes out and influences two people, and those two people in turn go and influence two more, it will lead to a change in society. However it is a fact that if that process were to simply occur 25 times with every subsequent generation, you would be able to reach the entire Malaysian population by nothing more than mathematics and committing to a rule of two each time. (Math is explained below)

This is the idea, and it is out there. For those of you who hate the fact that there are those who want to push us apart from one another, we are clear about what we reject as a society, and the only question is how the message will reach the rest.

It is not for one person to decide, rather it is the collective response of a few people, even 1% of those who saw this, that may make that crucial difference.

How will you change Malaysia? It doesn’t need to be what I proposed as that’s for you to decide, not me, but what I would suggest is the elimination of any form of religious extremism in our society and community. 😊


Note: Here is the math for how it happens.



Explained in plain English, this is what happens if the following process begins.

Somebody reads what they saw here, and then spreads the idea to two people.

The total number of people influenced at this point is 3 people, including the single person who was influenced (2 to the power of 0) and the two people who were influenced by them (2 to the power of 1 people), indicating that the total sum of people who were influenced at this point is that single person and the two people that they influenced - 3 people in total.

The 2 to the power of 2 term onwards is what occurs when the two people mentioned before go on to influence two others. Since it's two each, therefore there are four people that have been influenced in addition to the three that came before, for a total of seven people, and this process goes on and on. When you reach a total of 25 such doublings, it will be at that point that you reach the integer value that is smallest, indicating that the sum of total people influenced is at least or greater than or equal to the size of the Malaysian population.

Also interesting:

What happens when we add in probability. As it turns out, if the chance of someone choosing to spread ideas when exposed to them is 90% and that probability remains consistent across doublings, only 7 people initially are needed to reach the entire country, and if it’s 80%, then that would be 106 people 🤭


😭

Absolutely!

Hahaha, I’m not personally a fan of firecrackers but I can tolerate and celebrate with people!

The same way all people need not be fans of Christmas but may participate in Christmas celebrations or at least not object in a damaging fashion or denigrate the opportunity to unite when people say they want to hang out with their friends during Christmas.

This post has been edited by Exoflare: Dec 23 2024, 10:03 AM

You can see from the post below yours that it’s pretty relevant.

We all thrive on the small moments of happiness we share that affirm our relationships to one another and keep our conversations going as a goodwill, and we get to share why our beliefs are important to us even if we don’t agree or even if there’s no spreading of religion involved.

It doesn’t have to be a religious spreadfest and most of the time it’s not unless people want it to be.

Those who want you to believe it is are the toxic ones, and if we see them, it’s good to start to tegur.

Amar makruf nahi mungkar, I believe?

I don’t see why that logic should only be relevant when it’s being weaponized to attack people 🙃

That’s amazing! I hope you’ll have a super amazing one this year too or that you had a great one! 🤩

Report kaki masuk lagi.

Can you stop crying just because people want to kecam you and stop your manipulations of the public?



What can’t you tolerate?

Why don’t you like losing control?

What do you want to manipulate your fellow citizens to do even as your fellow citizens realize that perhaps instead of being manipulated by you, perhaps they should start to control you instead? 😊

It’s also ok per the mufti WP judgment, which someone on another platform was kind enough to share with me, as long as there isn’t a visit to rumah ibadat.

A note that mufti WP judgment is better than relying on a random scholar overseas, which some of the trolls like relying on.

Read the judgment here.

The spirit of what you said makes sense.

However, I will have to push back on the last part of what you said because it is factually incorrect to say “There are those who treat religion a bit more seriously, hope you respect their choices and stop calling them enemy.”

People do not avoid Christmas celebrations because they are ‘treating religion more seriously’. You are making the assumption that treating religion more seriously = people refuse to celebrate Christmas and cannot participate in Christmas when rather than ‘being more serious’, it is more accurate to say that those who actively choose to avoid Christmas celebrations are following a different set of scholars, or their interpretation is merely different.

They are no better than people who participate in Christmas celebrations.

It is an unfair insult to people of faith to say that they are choosing to integrate or celebrate Christmas only because they are ‘less serious’ about their faith compared to other Muslims, and it is the ‘less serious’ line of reasoning that makes it so that people feel guilt tripped into choosing not to go for Christmas celebrations.

Thus, while I accept the spirit of what you are saying, I reject your final assumptions, and maintain the following:

I view that anyone who attempts to stop their fellow followers from integrating into Malaysia and into all our celebrations or attempts to emotionally manipulate them on the false premise that they are ‘more serious about religion’ is an enemy of the nation and should be treated as such.

This post has been edited by Exoflare: Dec 23 2024, 12:07 PM

I have a somewhat long response to you that first showcases my way of thinking about the problem and the goal that you have chosen to support, and then after this I will articulate what I believe our common goal is so that you can act upon it in order to achieve it in your own way if you feel that there are better ways of doing so.

Thought process:

What you say is my goal is not wrong.

I think it's nice to imagine that you can, at scale, make sure that people agree with you and be at harmony with you, but I am a practical person.

When you are living in a society where there are bad actors like the ones who are casually trying to attack everyone else, it is sometimes necessary to bring a climate of extreme fear upon such people, and to do so without reservation not simply as a single individual, but also to encourage people to do so at scale in the realization that while we may not be unimpeachable personally, there needs to be a recognition that bad actors exist, and society should not protect them.

If they want to go ahead and challenge the fabric of your society, then why should you give them quarter?

The law permits that they should be silenced, and people generally don’t recognize that they can indeed encourage the state, the nation, and all of you to demand that they are enforced and anyone who attempts to divide us on the basis of religious beliefs needlessly, writ large, will be punished or sanctioned, even as we admit that, on matters of religious belief, the sheer spectrum of possible ways in which people can interpret the issue and what people deem as either correct or wrong varies as well along a continuum that depends upon whom it is that they have chosen to follow.

Nonetheless, the general operative metaprinciple that should be in place remains that one should not assume that they know everything or unduly attempt to impose their belief system upon the world and that humility is required.

What I believe, although I can be wrong in certain and specific ways, is that the majority of people who are bad actors in this way are people on the far end of the spectrum, to whom fear is the ultimate form of resolution.

Of course there are people in the middle who may be more easily or better swayed along the way, and to that I say, if you have nothing to fear, then you have no reason to be opposed in any meaningful way to my approach - just try to watch and not try to express your opinions when you see people celebrating Christmas, read your mufti judgment, and then refrain from impeding Malaysians from coming together.

Of course, if you view that it is better for you to take a more conciliatory approach, then you are entirely welcome to do so, but you should not expect me to be the sole bearer of the burden along the way as I have no interest in changing my personality for anyone or under any circumstances and you would be unwise to assume that you will succeed.

If you wish to bring forth another effort, you are welcome to, but I would take a slightly different approach and moreover, encourage people at scale to address the people who want to manipulate us with their narratives on an individual level and at scale.

Of course, none of what I said precludes your going out and bringing forth any initiative that you would prefer, but you will not stop me from saying what I prefer and neither will I attempt to stop you from doing what you wish.

Principles of thinking:

It’s nice that you support what I am trying to achieve, but also note that I don't feel a need to take credit for what I would like to achieve, which is merely a Malaysia that is more integrated in a range of different ways.

That I am merely providing the most publicly visible attempt at addressing the problem does not necessarily indicate that I am the only person who can attempt to resolve the problem.

Fear can be the solution, but so can more Kamala Harris-style inclusion.

You are welcome to try to use both approaches as long as you understand the operative principle and you work towards that specific goal in mind. I have no pretensions about necessarily being the best person to accomplish that goal in the first place. But as long as there is an awareness that that is what we are moving towards, and you are aware and are aligned on that front, then you are free to do it better than I ever could and I would be happy to support you along the way.

This post has been edited by Exoflare: Dec 23 2024, 03:27 PM

Haha, you don’t have to support me. If you see that the cause is worthwhile, I will assume that you will pursue it if you are serious.

I’m not here to make ‘friends’ on the internet or to sell myself or my personal characteristics - anything you’ve chosen to identify is of your own prerogative 🙃

Actually I am a bit curious, but what is it about my being a Mensa member or not being a Mensa member that made you choose to raise it?

Odd to see that that was the thing you decided to raise of all things, haha.

Wah macam tu? Bestnya… Yang menyedihkan tu, banyak orang yang takkan rasa tu. Dijajah dasar neokolonialis gaya baru dan nak mengawal orang je…

To be fair, you wouldn’t read through my long paragraphs or try to even understand my thinking if you were one of those ignorant dungus.

I could say something mocking here, but think about this fact for a while.

If you are here in this thread, even after everything that was said before (which, by the way, I believe in), then what does that say about you?

Are you one of the ‘dungus’ who is likely to make the problem worse? 🤭


Wah thanks for this.

1. My strategy thus far:

Sure, maybe some people will end up hating what you’ve chosen to do, but from my experience of encountering hate speech pretty frequently and encountering some people who haven’t dared to speak up on my channel, it’s also possible to encounter silent majorities of people who haven’t dared to say anything before.

I believe at least part of the solution is not just silencing the extremes but also finding and cultivating voices from within the community of people who share the same religion as the separatists, and then giving them an example of the kind of critiquing which I think they should find socially acceptable and begin to practice without fear, something that will begin to cultivate multiple saplings in the community that can begin to grow and then compete with the otherwise uninhibited extremism that exists out there.

There are a few public examples, but mostly people who are from the Malay world tend to be very afraid of trying to kecam people from the same world because if they do they have the fear that they will be kecam’d as well.

Deeply fearful, they would probably never say that they would oppose people in their own community at all… Publicly.

Consider this poll I did yesterday at 11pm, for example.



If there are so many people like this who feel that PAS is doing a bad job but aren’t really going out there to express themselves, what’s a reasonable interpretation of the set of different possibilities?

The answer seems to me to be that they don’t dare and thus they need examples of people going out there and persecuting and challenging the extremes as a foundation for a social pact where extremes can and will be excluded.

2. Justice system:

I believe it’s important to get more people to make use of our justice system rather than just complaining about how it doesn’t work on the basis of their lack of experience with it.

I strongly believe that one reason why a lot of people don’t have their complaints acted upon is that they do not report them, and that the justice system is biased against other ethnicities of people mainly because they do not band together to make police reports, and police typically only act as you see from the news when this sort of mass report thing happens.

Since Malaysian Chinese/Indian people often don’t make reports (and there is this culture that reporting is useless) and therefore don’t have their complaints acted upon when they do, I think it is reasonable that there is this perception that the justice system is biased.

As for your point on sedition - where do you even get comprehensive statistics on sedition cases broken down by race haha? I need to see that before I agree with what you’re saying.

On another note…

I was the subject of an attempted shaming case once. Both our government (Minister Fahmi Fadzil and deputy Minister Teo Nie Ching) took action directly and personally - he filed a legal request to Meta amongst other things, and she directly prioritized the case, and I know that this was exactly what happened from my communications with them over LinkedIn and also over watching the offender (owner of a page with tens of thousands of followers) come down after playing victim, blocking me, crying, although it did come up with offshoots later on that started complaining about Madani being oppressive and how his ‘freedom of speech’ was being repressed.

It helps that PDRM took action immediately, assigning me an officer who (just for illustratory purposes - normally it shouldn’t matter) was Indian, and proceeded to take action by calling the person and sharing some pleasant thoughts about national harmony, after which I think he developed a phobia of me which I am happy to egg on but alas, I’m not one to circumvent someone blocking me on Instagram and have better things to do.

Oh, I also have gone directly up to PDRM and directly told them that I think such people who have been using sentiments like this should be shamed - not in writing form; in direct speech form, with the clear intention of having the entire station hear every single word I say.

I told PDRM that if they see individuals like these that they are dangers against national security and that if they encounter people like this, they should casually take action and have no mercy.

All of this is just a very long winded attempt at saying I have no particular reason to disbelieve our justice system, haha. I just think it is underused and also that it itself is complacent and can be misused by bad actors and influenced by politicians.

3. If I were in a greater position of power…

If it’s just gut level influence, it’s nice to be able to have people express sentiments of muhibbah and other stuff like that and to speak against racism but frankly being a nice person and just not trying to control people is already a clear expression of that and I don’t think having performative behavior is equivalent to being more muhibbah but it’s nice to explore the possibility of that happening and actually working and to make it happen on a massive scale.

I would also facilitate mass report culture on the part of all racial conmunities and religious communities, and create a situation where it is possible to positively influence the police and authorities to take action, which includes military action, upon people who are extremists. (We can do that today - I encourage you to report extremists lol)

If it’s legal, administrative, and political power…

I would recruit people to infiltrate networks, attend their meetings clandestinely, and eventually identify their key people with the intention of influencing them or controlling them, while identifying their legitimate concerns.

I would also moreover target their children and have their children become educated in a way that is suitable towards dealing with their parents - may be more easy to do this through tiktok than through focus groups, though. Most things I think should happen by free choice - ie addictive videos that make appropriate behavior, ie separatist-shaming, speaking out against walaun parents, and racist-shaming seem obvious and the natural thing to do.

We can also say, identify key influencers and also provide funding and grants for activities, but only ever in contexts suited towards monitoring, developing dependence, and possibly crippling whom we need to cripple.


End:

Your response was tremendously long and I doubt I covered what would have done it justice in totality, but maybe this gives you an idea of what is on my mind.

Invite you to further ideate.

As I said, there’s no necessity that I am the best person for this.

Some of you may take real world actions that translate into a more interesting and colorful reality, and I encourage you to do so according to your own interpretation of the problem as stated 😊

This post has been edited by Exoflare: Dec 24 2024, 08:19 AM

No ‘need’, but I expect you to refrain from trying to defend people who insist that Malaysians CANNOT spend Christmas together.

What this also means is that I expect you to notice that nobody is forcing you to celebrate, but the expectation is that you refrain from trying to gaslight people into sharing your koyak belief that people should NOT celebrate together.

You don’t wanna celebrate? Make it your own problem. You can follow whatever outdated ulama you wanna follow (btw even the Mufti of WP hints that the view of the no-wish ulama is outdated lol) but do us a favor and don’t spread either Fitnah or the idea that there is a good reason to STOP Malaysians from celebrating together if they want to do so.