I'm sorry if general consensus means crap. I guess people discussing on the forums then coming to a conclusion is a bad thing. By all means follow Quazacolt's wonderful, insightful advice. Be unique, cut yoursself and sing emo songs!

Anyway flush has already said what I would have said if I had the time to reply in full.

Look at it this way. Every single ability you can have that can give you the slightest edge, be it in pve or pvp, can make or loose the battle. Pick the best ones if you want to min/max. Otherwise just pic them for looks.

P.S. Trolls are really ugly and don't wear shoes.

This post has been edited by dishwasher: Nov 8 2007, 07:13 AM

- Thats exactly what I want him to do. I can either get close to him n fear or silence from range n dispel him from his HoT (yes, I dispel it early and if you don't it'll make you look stupid), then throw a shield/PoM on my teammate and getting in range to throw a fear at the druid.

assumingly you're refering yourself as shadow, popping out of shadow forms just to pom then back to shadow form? if you havent realized, if a shadow priest is forced outta shadow form your team pretty much already lost. oh and you're still not addressing how druid hots can > you. dispeling his other hots means nothing as he can always have lifebloom up. and everytime you dispel lifebloom ur only helping him. unless its a dumb druid that doesnt cover his hots with lifeblooms, then its his problem.

- Wow silence chain! 2 secs and 8 yards yay! Oh wait, we're talking about priest racials; spells that are only available to priests of a certain race. You're talking about a racial that's available to that single race, regardless of class so we might as well compare it to WoTF. Which is still better than your 2 sec silence.

in the first place we've already being discussing all racial abilities being included such as berserking and wotf, i dont see what kinda point you're trying to make, as i can also say oh oh wotf is available to undead warriors/rogues or likewise berserking. WOTF being better or not compared to BE silence, is still not the point as you still cannot make a point that it is significantly better to the extent of someone picking undead over BE. because the whole point addressed was racials, do NOT play a significant role unless you're in high end contents be it pvp or pve. and you're still, beating the dead horse.

- A shadow priest without VE isn't a shadow priest at all. How the hell are u gonna spec shadowform and vampiric touch without speccing VE? Wound poison mortal strike hunter aimshot? So, you're not gonna use any ability to at least mitigate some of their damage even though they cripple your healing by 50% and have bleed/poison effects on you? Listen to your own argument there man.

And no it does not allow me some breathing space against melee all the time. But SW:P & DP both tick for 500 over dmg every 3 secs, so every 3 secs my opponent is ticked for over 1k dmg and the dmg from DP is healing me back. And since you're talking abt breathing space and melee, can a belf priest break out of Intimidation Shout? Is their 2 sec silence gonna mean jacksh!t on a warr or rogue or hunter? Consume magic? Oh wait, consume his own buffs at a moment like this? Boy am I glad I'm UD.

because everyone's a shadow priest right? lol. and do you see me pointing out anywhere regarding shadow priest without VE? im merely refering to non-shadow priest players, which of course (dur!) exists, and since you're so fond of "general concensus", non-shadow priest, in general and by majority, have more population and have better standings on the higher rated ranks, if you do care about it anyways.

and in which part was mentioned that you shouldnt use VE with ms/wound/hunter aim shot on you? im pointing out that even with VE, you're not gonna get much healing off due to those healing negation abilities. even pure healers themselves have troubles healing through those abilities, needless to say a shadow priest dot healing, which hes obviously being targeted if he have ms/wound/hunter aim shot on him and with that, one can assume the said priest cant get mindflays/mindblasts off to maximize VE heals.

you wanna start reading and comprehending better now?

on resil targets, you can expect that to be:
1) mitigated over 10+%
2) people will always have 10k+ hp and dots will take time to work its way through it
3) most HOTs are ticking AT LEAST 600-900 already
4) DD heals does way more than that needless to say

while BE silence does nothing against the 3 out of 9 class you mentioned, you do remember theres other 6 classes, that will be affected right? lets compare wotf then, anti fear/sleep/charm only works against 3 classes where-else silence works against 6. just that odd alone is an advantage already. and thats for the horde side, alliance dont even have those 2 awesome pvp abilities to begin with. probably just dwarfs on their stoneskin form (the ONLY priest capable of stopping a full fledged drain mana team)

you glad with your UD, good, but thats YOUR preferences. and at the end of the day you're still NOT able to provide enough argument that racial does NOT play a critical role unless you are in high end content be it pvp or pve, and thats what im pointing out.

---

Added on November 8, 2007, 1:47 pmif you're not gonna even bother to reply with something constructive, its best that you dont at all. and as ive said, im not debating/pointing out if one should be unique or lolself cut and sing emo songs.

im pointing out that racial, to any class even priests, does NOT by any means play a critical role in gameplay, unless you're in the high end hardcore contents in pvp, or pve.

every abilitiy gives you an edge, but due to the nature of racial abilities, it does not make any single races totally and entirely pre-dominant over another race.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 8 2007, 01:47 PM

In PvP, it's all about timing and getting things done in perfect unison for the team. Racials might help only when you meet certain classes, other than which it would be pretty much the same. WoTF will help only when you meet certain classes, and so will Arcane Torent in for certain classes. That's what makes the game interesting due to different matchups which should give a VERY slight advantage to whichever side. There will be no 'best race' for it that happens, the elitists would choose it which would lead to many others taking that stance too. What's most important is you feeling comfortable with the race for THAT is probably what you will be playing with/see during your WoW gaming experience for a long time to come.

Come on escape artist. =p

which part of dispelling lifebloom early don't u understand? those dots do damage on the third second, so when i apply dots on a druid, he immediately applies lifebloom on himself and thats when i dispel it. his life is full, who cares that lifebloom is gonna instantly heal him when dispelled? do u get it now? so i better not dispel it cos its gonna heal him to full life even tho he's health is full? and oh yeah, shadowpriests can and will shift out of shadowform to heal their own teammates because when ur teammate is alive n full health compared to other team at half health = more likely to win.

remember this? "and your example of be silence in 2v2 arena is also flawed. silence is also useful against feral druids to prevent shifts, cyclone, or even heals at time. druids stuck in forms, unable to heal, and/or unable to cyclone cc you are almost useless in arenas." OHMIGOD DRUID SHIFTING OUT TO CYCLONE/HEAL! IF HE SHIFTS OUT HIS TEAMMATE WILL LOSE WAT IS HE THINKING??

"if you havent realized, if a shadow priest is forced outta shadow form your team pretty much already lost." i thought u pvp-ed hard and don't give up the fight even when ure the last man standing but this kind of mentality ure projecting here? if shadowpriest is forced outta shadowform? = definitely lose? wow lol.

you're saying im beating a dead horse while ure going on and on about how great a 2 sec 8 yard range silence is?? LOL geez man! "hey look our opponent is a pretty belf! lets all stand clumped up in a tight spot so that he can throw a 2 sec silence on us!" wow dude that 2 sec silence is purely situational. i'm glad that u figured out that it works against 6 out of 9 classes. devouring plague works against every target and it's only rogues dwarfs priests n pallies that can get rid of them. if a rogue has used his clos them im def gonna use it on him.

"sure, but lets remember that that this ONLY applies to shadow priest with VE, and lets not forget:"

OH I DUNNO, THIS SENTENCE SURE MADE IT SOUND LIKE U THINK THAT SOME SHADOWPRIESTS HAVE VE AND SOME DON'T. better read what u wrote before trying to school me with lines like "you wanna start reading and comprehending better now?" cos if u wanna pay me out, better expect to get paid back.

on resil targets, you can expect that to be:
1) mitigated over 10+%
2) people will always have 10k+ hp and dots will take time to work its way through it
3) most HOTs are ticking AT LEAST 600-900 already
4) DD heals does way more than that needless to say

duh more reasons to throw an extra dot then. your point of view is "2 sec silence yay! all the opponent can do now is jump around cos i've silenced him for 2 secs yay" well to each his own i would say.

and ure right. wotf isn't useful against the other six. but it has been considered gamebreaker for many for a very long time. and before u bring up LOLFEARWARD, let me just clear it up on how it works for you. fearward is a magic buff, and thats how im gonna treat it. an extra buff. thats gonna be dispelled purged devoured by felhunter. 2 out of the 3 classes that fearward is useful against = priests and locks. priests can dispel it. locks will set their felhunter on u and devour all ur buffs. so ure left with no fear breaker except ur trinket against the 2 classes that u really need it. and every ud priest is most likely going to put fearward on his non-ud teammate who does not have any way of breaking/resisting fears.

"im pointing out that racial, to any class even priests, does NOT by any means play a critical role in gameplay, unless you're in the high end hardcore contents in pvp, or pve.

every abilitiy gives you an edge, but due to the nature of racial abilities, it does not make any single races totally and entirely pre-dominant over another race."

i hate to bring this up but this guy was asking for advice on what race to choose for priest for raiding purposes. but u just love to jump on every opportunity to start an argument that tends to lead to pvp and arenas, because that's all u do? give it up pal, the op is not thanking you for all the useless info u just gave out. ure the worst person a newbie can turn to for advice and its been proven time and time again with all ur pvp advice.

stick to what u do best, and the next time someone asks for help regarding pvp/arena, then give them the whole 9 yards. otherwise, stop wasting everyone else's time.

i read every thing flush said and im f***ing inspired to make a priest......dude u argue well and your supporting statements are based on facts that you play a priest<i think!>

QFT for that. thats what im trying to point out.

---

Added on November 9, 2007, 2:47 amgettin nerf bat anyways~

---

Added on November 9, 2007, 3:30 am

because we all know druids can only case lifeblooms once amirite?!



shadow priest teams rely on the shadow priest for pure dmg, and usually have another healer to do the healing unless ur in 2v2, and even in 2v2, zerging down 1 guy first before even thinking of ditching shadow form for heals is still preferable as you have the talents to do dmg and almost no talents into healing.

in simple terms, when a shadow priest is forced to do healing, the team is already at an disadvantage or already pretty much lost. because you might as well count the said shadow priest half a man over a full member of the team.

if you still cannot graps that, perhaps you dont arena enough.



because driud shifts cost WAY LESS mana, and druid dont need talents for travel form. its really that simple. unless blizzard start implementing talents for travel form so druids can own faces in travel form for them to stick with it like shadow priests, they will be spamming shifts on and off. especially resto druids.



again, im not projecting a mentality of losing, its really simple to "not lose", dont ever shift outta shadow form especially 3v3/5v5, unless 1 of your enemy is dead (in 2v2 only)
you taking my so called mentality being projected wrongly is your problem, dont push the blame on to me.



again, whos the person getting things wrong? im pointing out how racial doesnt play a crucial role in WoW unless ur in high-end pvp/pve. you're just going apeshit over my argument of BE silence is your problem. and if you think ONLY dwarf priest can get rid of DP, um wow, the other priest must be somewhat handicapped on dispeling huh? and felhunter dispel anyone? mage iceblocks? shows how knowledgeble you are right now. and thats JUST dispel, even more ways to counter dp from even landing the first place, but i guess you wouldnt even bother.



again, dont get butthurt when your misunderstanding my points. i dont see how my sentense imply that im point out shadow priest may or may not get VE. im pointing out that there are other priests that exist say holy priests? im sure this world only have shadow specced priest amirite? english comprehension may not be your best skill, but by no means should you be goin apeshit on people just because you are having trouble with english.



- i dont see how there is more reasons to throw in extra dot to help on self healing through dots, and ur not getting much in the first place, and thats assuming its not dispeled/cloakec/prevented off.
- good points, but still, does not address that undeads are clearly superior AND critical for someone to choose it over other races such as troll/blood elves. troll hex alone provides an advantage in teams adept at target switching with a 20% healing debuff, to provide time for dps'ers like hunters (aimshot 2.3, that has a lengthy castime), or rogues (that need time to stack their wounds). in the mean time the target is only capable of recieving 80% heals while gettin a sudden target switch. and troll berserking can be very useful if used properly be it holy or shadow specced.
- BE silence can be chained by other sources of silence eg: counterspell/priest self silence provided hes shadow/warlock spell lock etc. and because of this, blizz is considering to have DR on interrupts/silences, but eventually didnt made it because of intense QQ's. in shorter term, a caster is potentially able to be kept silence over 10 seconds++ and in arena pvp, even if ur 490+ resil, 10++ seconds of unable to do anything is still proven fatal.

and thats just covering the horde side, while alliance have 4 outta 5 races that are able to choose the priest class.



yes, i know the guy's asking what priest to choose for, and im giving advice to him. raiding, pvp or arenas, they share the same characteristic, and at the end of the day my advice still holds true, and till now you still havent done anything to prove otherwise. and im not seeking for thanks, he ask for advice, i give it as i see fit. and last i check, none of my information are useless and this is a messageboard after all where i could post what i see fit so long it doesnt violate the board rules, in which i didnt.

i choose to pvp is my own choise of what i want to do with wow, and to this extent, posting on this boards. and if you know what i do best, why are you posting crap about pvp'ing where raiding is what you probably do better and not pvp? if you wanna post arguments over my points, perhaps its smarter to post up raiding pointers over pvp pointers no? because you are in no way making a lot of strong points and are in many ways self contradicting and at the end of the day, does not even provide solid arguments of my point, which is: racial does NOT play a critical role in any class unless you are in high-end pvp/pve.

btw:
perhaps you are one having reading comprehension? i cant see how there are keywords of "raiding" anywhere in that particular sentence, instead i see the keyword "newbie"
and my advice are based solely on that.

and more FYI's! (omg?!)
there are ACTUALLY signs of appreciation on post #3
and omg i actually even made a post stating undeads DO have an edge in pvp on post #2

yet ur still argueing over this? hilarious really.

you love to raid, sure, i dont judge you for that, but dont even think about judging my love for pvp, as i know i can sure as hell rape the crap outta any raiders considering their lack of pvp'ing/resilience or both. as you even said yourself, to each it own. and i can back my own damn words by going to PTR, and you can even choose to 1v1 duel, 2v2,3v3,5v5 arena'ing me and/or my team. that way not even realm can be an excuse.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 9 2007, 03:30 AM

sorry Q, but i'd say UD priest holds the best choice these days

WoTF is too much of a boon to the UD in both pvp and pve...
i guess i dont really need to tell you why in pvp, and as for pve take a look at archi fights...

the next in line would be troll I guess, never really liked BE cept for the looks... 8 yards for the silence is just another 1 yard longer than a tauren's maximum attack range. Given our latency, its hard at times to even achieve that 8 yards...

Male UD is butt ugly though

lol np, i welcome any constructive posts as its what the forums are about. and no doubt that would help people like TS find their answers easier.

but since you brought in taurens, noticed how many alliance QQ about warstomp? so given that, BE silence arent actually a bad thing. but latency is also one thing to consider, especially if ur warstomping. (LOLPUSHBACKS GG LATENCY)
thankfully arcane torrent is instant.

on cosmetic side, male BE arent that hot to begin with (unless ur a girl, but im not, so ill stick with that unless i deside to question my sexual preference) but their females are DEFINITELY a ton better than UD as saggy boobs arent too great imho

now now.. be nice. state your views and opinions without being a prick please. no flaming.

I strongly suggest u roll Undead if u r going for shadow priest & u r into pvp.
Will of the forsaken & devouring plague makes a hell lot of difference in pvp.

I played a BE shadow priest & a bit regret now. Got closed to 2k arena rating in 2v2 in bg9 with a 2 dps setup & i am confident that if i were undead things will be a lot easier with the extra dps/heal with devouring plague & extra fear break against those fking fear happy warlocks

EDK main WOW?
i tot u only play Tekken

lol who r u? reveal yourself! bodacious?
I stop Tekken for quite long already. Looking forward to T6 though

This post has been edited by EDK: Nov 9 2007, 12:51 PM

king lah LOLX...

got armory profile please?

The cow has come home.... so behave... no more movies!

/throw away popcorn

dude again u proof ure the one with failure in reading comprehension. i mentioned rogues dwarves priests and pallies as in [rogues = clos] [dwarves = STONEFORM] = [priests = remove/abolish disease] (YEAH ITS NOT CALLED DISPEL COS DISPEL ONLY WORKS FOR MAGIC EFFECTS AND DP IS A DISEASE EFFECT) and [pally = cleanse].

shadowform yeah it costs a tonne of mana, which is why we were given shadowfiend. if a belf shadowpriest eats DP they gotta shift out of shadowform to abolish it. too bad it costs a tonne of mana for them too eh.

i'm pointing out that UD holds way many better racials than belf. even cannibalize can be useful in arenas. even sets84 has mentioned that the range sucks, which is why i said it is purely situational.



yeah in his first original post he didnt mention raiding/pvping and no one bothered to ask. all u did was give a bunch of generalised answers. u think those answers are in anyway going to help a new guy?

which was why i bothered asking him and his reply was that he is rolling a horde shadowpriest for raiding. but u just had to go on and on about the pvp aspect. grats on comprehension failure.

here, his reply if u didnt happen to catch it.

alright Flush. Thanks for the brilliant information given to me now i decide to play UD priest since i want to spec as Shadow Priest for raiding in 70. I read posting in Worldofwarcraft forum that shadow priest often ROO by using the skill combination. is it true? Anyway, for the rest, thanks for information about priest

heyyy i even bold them for you incase u missed it the first time! failure to read n going on and on about pvp = teh lose.

ur reply right here right after the OP has replied to my question about whether he's rolling a shadow priest, and is it for raiding.

your comment over ud priest only applies to raid. the only real benefit of ud's in arenas/pvp = wotf and that only applies to warlocks/priests and perhaps warriors at times. (lol surv hunters with wywern sting too maybe)

and your example of be silence in 2v2 arena is also flawed. silence is also useful against feral druids to prevent shifts, cyclone, or even heals at time. druids stuck in forms, unable to heal, and/or unable to cyclone cc you are almost useless in arenas.

hmmm... remember that term u use beating a deadhorse and also ? sounds like what ure doing right here. OP already gave confirmation that he:-
a.) wants to spec shadow
b.) is going to raid

and you are still going on and on about? PVP.



This topic has been about shadowpriests for the last i dunno, 100 replies? And ur sentence does imply that there are shadowpriests without VE. So am I supposed to apologize because u didn't convey the message u were trying to put across and that ppl will get the wrong msg? OH HEY MR. KILLER I'M SORRY THAT U KILLED MY DAUGHTER! Do u see victim's parents apologizing to a killer? Yeah.. they go apeshit.



Hey look who's the one going apeshit? hey mr. pls relax! i'm scared! i apologize. don't go apeshit over my ass with ur nerd rage. wow reminds me of that time when someone here over the forums asked u out for a fight.

and i can back my own damn words by going to PTR, and you can even choose to 1v1 duel, 2v2,3v3,5v5 arena'ing me and/or my team. that way not even realm can be an excuse.

sorry u feel that i'm judging u about ur love for pvping. i'm really sincere abt this apology. its just that... like i said, the op has stated that he's looking to roll a shadow priest for raiding and really, u should leave the advice to the ppl who are knowledgeable about this issue. instead of going on and on about pvp... thats just real sad.

You wanna go around insulting everyone else's posts with replies like "vague comments ftl" and "if you're not gonna even bother to reply with something constructive, its best that you dont at all." Well, listen to urself first. Well, what the hell are ur replies about? im sorry mr e-thug, i wouln't be meeting u in the PTR. but go ahead and bring ur 'crew' there and roll everyone else. i heard thats where all the cool kidz hang out these days.

Cmon Quaza.... you gonna take that lying down? Where's that leet backstab of yours!?!?

Looking forward to your reply...

flush you are 100% correct
btw about someone here asking quaza out for a fight how did that go?? did it happned??

---

Added on November 11, 2007, 1:35 am/salute flush
1 day and there is no reply

This post has been edited by Jas2davir: Nov 11 2007, 01:35 AM

sorry moo, cant leave by posts like that un-attended, but ill try to keep it civil and obviously, constructive and holds relevance to the topic ^^

---

Added on November 12, 2007, 10:11 am



and shadow fiends is the solution to everything right? not sure about you, but shadow fiends are VERY easily kited, cc'ed, or even to some teams that have heavy melee/physical/burst dmg - killed. and their mana returns arent done entirely in an instant.

and if your still not realizing this, im pointing out that every race, (believe or not dur!) is viable in pve and pvp, and again, for like the billionth time or so (yes i know, exaggerated) is NOT CRITICAL to a person's advancements UNLESS he is in the high end level eg: bt/hyjal for pve or post 2.4k ish ratings or so for pvp. is it that hard to understand? cuz this point alone ive been trying to somehow stick it into your face but to no success until this day. so why is this STILL a BE/UD issue i really have no idea.



and YOU know those supposedly generalised answers arent gonna help them?

and he only posted his preference AFTER you posting advices about pvp, and already started shooting down BE's. and from there on, its basically you apeshitting all over defending UD and constantly shooting down other races especially BE where as i am merely trying to make my point clear that racials are in no way critical to a person's gameplay in WoW, again, un less ur in the high end levels in pve/pvp.



and i cannot reply to information that is wrong/flawed? so we dont misguide the OP/TS? you mentioned something that is wrong/flawed in pvp (again your the one started with the "oh ud are like omg win for pvp" and already started shooting down other races before im even giving any pvp advices.

the only post that may hold true to your statement, is my post on post#10, where by im replying dishwasher on post#8, and then on post #11, you dashed in gunz blazing gung-ho, and from there on, total shit-fling.



AFAIK the title has not been changed to "rolling a shadowpriest" and now again, ur goin lol "OH HEY MR. KILLER I'M SORRY THAT U KILLED MY DAUGHTER!". im not really looking for an apology, but dont expect me to entertain you being ignorant by assuming everything. eg: me stating shadowpriests wont be getting VE where it was never stated or mentioned at all.



and thus ur just helping me proving my point.

when you're not even that credible for pvp, ur continously argue'ing against me about pvp. and while the op is (in the end) seeking to roll a ud shadow priests, you're still feeding constantly flawed/wrong informations to the thread (which is the OP's thread) and i dont see why it is wrong to correct it.

i mean hell, u should leave the advice to the ppl who are knowledgeable about this issue. instead of going on and on about pvp... thats just real sad. back at ye face? im more knowledgeble in pvp, which can be proven by a my armory, ratings, and even a match up if you continue to disbelieve, and you're going on and on about pvp, in which, i couldnt stand by and see you continously spouting constant flawed/incorrect information to the thread.

as far as i am re-viewing my own posts, i believe almost everyone of them if not all, contains at least contructive materials which are in contribution to the thread. not so much since page 2 as opposed to page 1 as its pretty much just you and me shit flinging. oh and hey, be more mature on the whole cool kids thing, id understand if you dont have the gear/skill/people for the ptr, but all you have to do is say it, no one's gonna make fun at ye (at least i wont) because you pve, because likewise, you get to kill kewl bosses like illidan or archimonde, i dont, simple as that.

---

Added on November 12, 2007, 10:12 amgoin AR PREP post Season3 though, ill be missing backstabs/mutilates, but a OP'ed spec is just an OP'ed spec, and i play to win

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 12 2007, 10:12 AM