to the whole world from word kecap

google say otherwise. it say it was first a malay word. then borrowed by the hokkien chinese.

Shameless. I am Chinese but this is crap.

but according to history, earliest kicap go as far as in the western han dynasty (206 BC – 220 AD). tamadun melayu where got go as far as 200 bc?

That's why I say from Malaysia

Soy sauce transition become tomato sauce?

The transition pretty much eliminated the original meaning

This post has been edited by Chowda: Oct 12 2024, 10:00 PM

same like char kuey tiaw.

What does the big tomato say to the small tomato? Catch up! 😂

In Cantonese, 茄汁 pronunciation sound exactly like ketchup, tomato sauce, exact same meaning.

Kicap in Malay can be soya sauce and many other sauce.

In b4 the indon

PuAS: Ini boleh claim royalti tak?

cat sup

later they will claim that sri vijaya and chola is also from china lol

Anchovies? Then its budu

Singapore say no

It is a fact.

This theory is proposed by Oxford English Dictionary
and there are written record supporting 膎汁 origin.

It is ashamed that some have lost their way to identify their culture.

The Malay term kecap likely derives from Chinese, evidenced by the similarity in phonetics and the historical presence of Chinese traders in the region.

3rd Century BCE — Early Chinese Fermented Sauces
China had a long tradition of producing fermented fish sauces, with references found in ancient texts like the Zhou Li (周禮) and other historical documents.
While these early sauces were ancestors of what would later become kê-tsiap, they were not yet called by that name. However, they were widely consumed throughout southern Chinese provinces.
16th - 17th Century — Chinese Fish Sauce and Maritime Trade
Hokkien-speaking traders from southern China (Fujian province) were involved in extensive maritime trade across Southeast Asia.

This is the period when the term kê-tsiap (鮭汁), meaning "pickled fish brine" or "fermented fish sauce," is believed to have emerged in the Amoy (Xiamen) dialect of Hokkien Chinese.

Evidence:
Hokkien-speaking traders were historically known for introducing their language, foods, and condiments to areas they traded with, such as the Malay Archipelago and Indonesia.
17th Century — Adoption of Fermented Sauces in Malay Culture
The spread of Chinese-style fish sauce through Chinese traders likely influenced local Malay languages and culinary practices.

In the Malay language, the word kecap (or kicap) came to describe a variety of fermented sauces, such as soy sauce (kecap manis) and other fish-based condiments.

Evidence:
The adaptation of Chinese food culture into Malay cuisine during this time is well documented, especially in the spice trade regions where Chinese migrants settled.
1690s — First Appearance of 'Catchup' in English
The first written use of the word catchup appears in British texts, referring to an imported sauce resembling the fermented fish sauces found in Southeast Asia.

Example:
A 1690 dictionary entry in England refers to a sauce called catchup, suggesting it was already known among British traders and seafarers.
1711 — Jonathan Swift's Use of 'Ketchup'
The term ketchup appears in literature when Jonathan Swift uses it in his writings, further cementing its place in English vocabulary.
Early English ketchup recipes did not include tomatoes but rather used ingredients like anchovies, mushrooms, and walnuts to replicate the umami flavor of the original fermented sauces.
1748 — First Ketchup Recipe Published in English
A recipe for ketchup appears in Hannah Glasse’s famous cookbook The Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy, featuring a mushroom-based ketchup.
This recipe reflects the British attempt to adapt the Chinese and Southeast Asian sauces to local tastes using available ingredients.
19th Century — Transition from Fish to Tomato Ketchup
By the 19th century, tomatoes became a common ingredient in ketchup, especially in the United States, where regional producers experimented with the formula.
Heinz introduced the modern sweet, tomato-based ketchup in 1876, shifting ketchup’s identity away from the original fermented sauces.
Modern Day — Survival of Kecap and Chinese Condiments
Today, kecap is still used in Indonesia and Malaysia to describe soy sauces and other fermented condiments, illustrating the persistence of the original term.
In contrast, ketchup in Western cuisine is now almost exclusively associated with a tomato-based sauce.

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: Oct 13 2024, 12:27 AM

tq.

Originate from Cantonese.

番茄= tomato
汁= sauce

茄汁 = ke zhap = ketchup.



This post has been edited by Sam Loo: Oct 13 2024, 12:55 AM

can you cite your reference point? it would have more credibility in that way