The APBT is not a dog for everybody. It is a dog for the purist, for a dog lover prepared to spend time, patience, energy and attention on a dog that can drive you to distraction but can repay you in loyalty, obedience and affection in a way no other dog of other breeds can. The ban on importation limits the gene pool and it is difficult to find good APBTs locally. I tried but in the end settled for an APBT crossbreed. She is still young but shows good promise. Thai origin pitbulls are available but are mainly of the fighting line and very animal aggressive. The males are extremely competitive and do not mix well with other dogs, they always want to be #1, the alpha dog. If not well exercised, they can be destructive. If not well socialized, they will bark incessantly at all other passing dogs and animals. Your neighbors will hate you. Still want a pit bull terrier? Think 10 times again.

ambully,

I did not appreciate that 'berserk' remark about apbts. You know I never ran down ambullies even though I thought some specimens were a warped and overpriced parody of what a good pit bull terrier should be. If a pit bull misbehaves badly, you can be sure there is an uncaring human being behind it - poor breeding, ill treatment, bad training; in short, an uncaring owner. The pit bull already suffers from enough undeserved bad press, it does not need any uncharitable comments from a dog owner/breeder. I am sure you did not mean it the way it came out but people have enough negative perceptions about apbts as it is. They may think all apbts are uncontrollable fighting dogs that can go mad at any time. That is patently untrue.

ambully,

Sorry to disagree but no dog goes berserk randomly. There is always a reason for its behaviour. Just as there is a reason for a human to go amok. For your info, I have reared different breeds of dogs for over 20 years and there is no need to explain the ABC's of breeds to me. I have also fostered dogs awaiting new homes. It pains me to see them so misunderstood sometimes and treated like commodities to be bred and sold indiscriminately in this country.

ambully,

No, I am not against you or the price of bullies sold by you. You have some good looking bullies and you are entitled to sell them at the highest price you can get but do try to get them good owners as well. To me, a dog lover is more important as an owner if you want the best home for your puppies. Some moneyed buyers quickly lose interest after the novelty wears off. Poor dog gets fed but nothing else otherwise. Few breeders check their buyers' background or future home for the dog. Do you?

I think you are the more sensitive one because of your vested interest in bullies. Sometimes it is hard to separate business and hobby. I am sensitive about how pet dogs are treated for I have seen how some unethical backyard breeders treat their stock. Even been conned by one many years ago. I think you love dogs but business considerations as a breeder may cloud your thinking at times. I don't have this problem. I really have nothing against you for you seem very decent and responsible. Sometimes we read too much into an innocuous comment. Sometimes we appear too critical and judgmental. Friends? ok?

Hey Moe81,

The APBT thread is here. Just no postings since June 09. You're just the guy to revive it.

moe81,

Do repost a selection here. We need enthusiasts/owners to tell the public more on the positives of the gameline APBTs. And educate owners, both current and potential, on their responsibilities and to be very discriminate on their dog's ancestry. You get what you deserve in a pit bull ; if you don't research its ancestry and origins, be prepared for the unexpected.


baby26,

I believe you. Some APBTs are indeed very animal aggressive and territorial. A neighbor once had a super aggro unsocialised loud barking APBT which was a cat killer ; 9 known kills in the house compound ; caused friction with all other neighbors. Lived till 15. But was obedient and gentle as a lamb with his owners family members. He's had 2 other APBTs since ( incl the son of super aggro ) but none with that fearsome fighting aggression. Must have come direct from a fighting line, probably Thai origin, since he got the dog from Penang. He still misses super aggro and dreams one day of a replica replacement!

Morning Moe,

Great to see your posts here. However, with regard to unwanted incidents, it is yours to share and for all to understand the APBT breed and its ancestry. I believe we need to talk both good and bad about the breed so people understand what they are getting into. This may help prevent repeat accidents. The bully breeders here are actively promoting their 'safe' dogs at high prices for the fashion conscious, about time game dogs got some back.

Moe,

Thanks for sharing Angel's story. At least her genes still reside in son Romeo, something to be thankful for. She died doing what she was trained for - protecting her territory. As for Rasco, he is alpha all right ; 1 against 10 and probably did'nt mind the odds. One thing though, strays may carry ticks and diseases ; not a good thing to mix it up with them. For his sake and theirs! Human trespassers are another story, you trespass at your own risk. Do you display ' Beware of Dog ' signs at your factory? Not that burglars care but to warn innocent intruders, if there are such.

This post has been edited by clearfish: Aug 12 2009, 06:45 PM

Moe,

'Romeo. Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?' A line from Shakespeare remembered from my English Lit schooldays long ago but which sums up what a girl APBT would want in a mate. Romeo is hot stuff looks wise and if coupled with good temperament, health and blessed with smarts, is irresistible as a stud. How old is he, what are his vital stats? Be good to keep desirable APBT gene pool alive in Malaysia. There is'nt that much left here, what with importation ban, breeder migration to more profitable bully and current tepid interest in a demanding working breed that needs lots of time, space and attention.

Yes, other APBT owners and enthusiasts, please do contribute your pictures, anecdotes and any useful information about your dog and the breed on this thread. Keep it alive and interesting. At least one posting a month would be welcome.

hi moe,

So now you have become a foster parent of 10 cuties. They are completely adorable. Congratulations to you and kudos to champa. Who's helping you with the toiletry duties, it's going to get worse as they grow! Hope you are up to it. Post weekly pics of their progress. If only I can get the wife to agree, I'll love one notwithstanding we already have 3 dogs and 3 cats. She's a cat person, very wary of APBTs and their animal aggressive instincts.

I just had my coco neutered last friday before her first heat comes. She's 8 months. Don't want any accidents. Within 24 hours, she was up & about and wanting to be taken for her morning walk.

Cheers!

morning moe,

More pics, eh! A custom built puppy nursery of plywood and timber, with lights what more. Privacy for nursing mother and pups, away from prying eyes. You are resourceful.

Do your prospective buyers have to fill in forms detailing living space and conditions and their experience raising dogs? Then wait to be interviewed and shortlisted? Sign a contract? Reminds me of the lady from Caragan Kennels, USA, with her many pre-conditions for buyers of her exclusively bred show quality apbts. One condition is that you cannot be a bully owner or breeder! Another is that you must have the puppy trained. She really is passionate about her dogs and you can understand why when you see their championship lineage.

Did'nt know you were on an Animal Planet episode, would have tuned in otherwise. I have seen a pic of you kissing a snake (king cobra?) somewhere, so I know you are intimate with snakes. Let us know when the re-run comes on, will catch you then.

yo moe,

Was life then too boring for you or what ? The king cobra could have got you not on the fingers but in the family jewels. Your chance of future little moes or moettes could have disappeared just like that. The king cobra kissing video was entertaining though, was it a male or female snake ? Thanks for sharing. What other adventures/escapades do you get yourself into ? Riding wild elephants ?

Just pulling your leg regarding interviews and signed contracts on buying a puppy from you. I've never heard it done here and it is probably not enforceable in Malaysian courts anyway. I will never be able to give up any of my pups, that's one of the reasons I neuter all my dogs. Looking forward to see pics of your pups with eyes wide open soon...

ambully,

Is there something seriously the matter with you? I don't see anything in my earlier comment that is denigrating to any one in general or to bully breeders in particular. If there is, just debate about it without name calling and making erroneous assumptions There will always be rivalry between pits and bully lovers but it does not have to turn malicious. It can be constructive. I am not sure why you got all offended and made personal remarks about me. This is hardly the way an ambassador of the bully breed should behave. Earlier on, I made allowances for you, including your not-so-good understanding of English, but not now. Whether the gloves remain off depends on you.

If you really want to promote the bully breed and not just the money in the breed, do the following for a start :

*Re-vamp the intro in your American Bully thread. It is full of syntax and grammatical errors. Facts are jumbled and sentence construction is weak. It hardly conveys a good image of the breed promoter's knowledge and his professionalism.

*Justify the high pricing for the bully as compared to the pit and amstaff in Malaysia. Looks and fashion trends will not do it. The gulf is too wide.

*Do not make a comment that '..the condition of the (a fellow breeder's) place is somewhat like a puppy mill..'. Hardly ethical, trashing a competitor on your own thread.

*Do not assume someone who disapproves of the bully's high pricing cannot afford one. I assure you I can afford not just one top notch bully but a fully functional kennel as well if I ever decide to be a dog breeder.

This is only a sample. Lots more to come if required.

This post has been edited by clearfish: Sep 11 2009, 12:48 PM

ambully,

You really do have some serious personal issues. Do not see a foe where there is none. Do some self examination.

moe,

Decided to go M.I.A. for a while, not joining the US Marines or anything of that kind. Just chilling out, and checking out pit vs bully websites, forums and blogs in USA for a sampling of the pit/bully debate in past years as well as present. Some debates can really get heated but in general, dog owners in USA take the trouble to be well informed and despite outspoken disagreements, personal warfare does not break out between opposing factions. I found this article at http://www.realpitbull.com/bully.html informative and recommend it as good background material for those who are interested to know the development of the breed. It appears factually accurate and objective, even if some people may disagree with me.

I like all your puppies, they are all helplessly adorable at this age with personality, temperament, intelligence not showing till much later in individuals. But if they are like Rasco and Champa, they should have great potential. Keep the pics flowing weekly if you have time to post. Is Tyson a bully type pit registered with UKC? You can't tell these days since many bully type pits don't conform to UKC registry standards necessarily. Promises to be a big guy. Good looker, though, and sure to turn some heads. No offense, but I still prefer the conformed pit look.

This post has been edited by clearfish: Sep 18 2009, 03:29 PM

Moe,

What a difference 2 weeks make! Pups look happy and healthy. I count only 9 pups though, thought there were 7 males, what's the story with male#7 ? Color scheme seems more Champa than Rasco, with dark shades predominating. I look forward to seeing Romeo's pups, if you ever breed him.

Freakfingers,

Like your girl's dark triangular patch over the right eye. Resembles bull terrier marking.

moe,

Pups are all looking good. From pics, my fav male is #4 ( tan&white marking) and fav female is #3 ( eyepatch). Looks like the ones with better markings are always booked first, there being nothing much else to separate them at this early age. Would love to see them but it's unwise knowing that I cannot walk away empty handed. Just managed to find a new home for one young dog after 3 long months of fostering. He was a bundle of energetic trouble.

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Not sure about you but even after over 20 years of owning dogs, have never owned a woman. Married to one, yes, owning one, never. Not for an instant. Owning implies a master/servant-slave relationship or something similar. Are you sure that guy 'roissy' who penned the article is still alive and in one piece? Used a nickname to remain anonymous but if any woman in his life or some feminist organization found out what he wrote, even if in jest, they will put a bounty on his head no matter how 'alpha' he is. Male chauvinism in this day and age can be downright dangerous to one's health.

This post has been edited by clearfish: Oct 10 2009, 02:50 PM

The dog in the picture certainly appears to have a large dose of apbt in its genes. What can anyone say after such a tragic episode? Fault finding will not bring back a lost life. Both humans and the 2 dogs are victims; the dogs will have no future, most likely. Pits and their crosses can have high prey drive and an aggressive streak, more so the larger males, and need constant supervision. I own two such energetic crossbreeds, both neutered females. They are excellent protection dogs but need firm and correct handling to curb their natural instincts. They are not for novices and neglectful owners. This episode is a dire warning to would be owners of aggressive canine breeds. Know your dogs, socialize them, never let them run around other animals and humans without your supervision. And neuter the females to prevent accidental breedings.

Go read the Star's Metro section today April 14 and see what has come about as a consequence of the recent Penang tourist dog attack incident. The Subang Jaya council is banning the ownership of all aggressive dog breeds, the same breeds banned from import into Malaysia. This is sheer undisguised breed specific discrimination. And look at the various pictures shown in the papers. The apbt especially is pictured as a powerful, fangs bared, fearsome dog. Years ago, when a Rottweiler attacked a boy in Shah Alam, the same hysterical reaction was seen. It was only after much protest from various groups that proposed Rottweiler breed ban legislation was not implemented there. But other dog ownership restrictions were imposed. The people who propose such bans are, by and large, not dog owners and are pressured by others who are similarly ignorant and fearful. So, apbt and aggressive dog breed owners, please understand and take your responsibilities seriously. We don't need any more bad press. And please don't breed your dog indiscriminately. Neuter them if not breeding to improve bloodlines.

By the way, the 2 dogs in the Penang incident, plus 2 others surrendered by the owner, are likely to be put down, if not already done. A sad episode all round.

Just a little piece of advice. Your ampit bull, whether male or female, even if neutered, is likely to have high prey drive. With 2 dogs, that spells extreme double danger to all other small animals in the neighborhood, especially cats that stray into your yard at night. One quick chase, one leap, one bite and shake of the head, and it's curtains for the intruder. All that done with the minimum of noise. You won't even know till the next morning.