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 LIAM CEO Stunned By Hospital Bill For RM19,000, Minor Hernia Surgery

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TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 08:05 AM, updated 2y ago

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KUALA LUMPUR, August 28 — Back in May, Mark O’Dell, chief executive of the Life Insurance Association of Malaysia (LIAM), received a 13-page bill amounting to RM18,837.55 for a minor hernia operation he did at a private hospital in Kuala Lumpur.

The former CEO of AIA and Manulife in Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and Taiwan – who has over 44 years’ experience in the life insurance business – was baffled and thought: “How could a simple procedure with a one-night hospital stay result in a 13-page bill?”

The document, issued on May 28, was filled with numerous line items, most of which the insurance industry veteran didn’t fully understand.

“ You look at all the items, and I don’t understand some of the things that are on there,” O’Dell told CodeBlue in an interview on August 16. “How do I, as a consumer, understand what’s necessary and what’s not? It’s just not right.”

The bill included charges for 95 line items across 13 different categories totaling RM18,837.57 (the final bill was rounded up to RM18,837.55):

Consignment supplies: RM3,189
Equipment/instrumentation: RM3,850.30
Gases supply: RM61.19
Imaging: RM77
Laboratory investigation: RM120.70
Medical and surgical supplies: RM2,105.60
Medication: RM2,606.68
Miscellaneous: RM158.50
Nursing care: RM139.50
Nursing procedure: RM27.70
Operating theatre: RM1,372.40
Room and board: RM2,508
Doctors’ charges: RM2,621

“This arthroscopic surgery is a wonderful thing actually. They don’t have to cut you open. You heal much faster, and maybe that’s why some of the costs are higher,” O’Dell said.

“But some of these things here, I just look at this – three disposable underpads for RM32.70, ear probe cover for RM6.30. None of this is regulated. There’s no reason why tomorrow they can’t make this RM6.60 or RM7.60.”

Doctors’ charges of RM2,621 comprised just 14 per cent of the total hospital bill, while medications at RM2,606.68 formed another 14 per cent.

The biggest chunk of O’Dell’s hospital bill went to equipment/instrumentation at RM3,850.30, forming 20 per cent.

The LIAM CEO declined to name the private hospital that treated him.

O’Dell is not alone in questioning the seemingly arbitrary pricing by private hospitals. With Bank Negara Malaysia’s (BNM) mandate requiring a minimum 5 per cent copayment for new health insurance products, concerns have emerged about unregulated medical bills.

Some argue that patients with insurance can end up paying 100 per cent more than those who pay out-of-pocket (OOP).

On this, O’Dell recounted another troubling incident. “I mean this really happened to me. I walked to my ENT specialist, and the first thing the nurse asked me was, ‘Do you have an insurance policy?’ and I said, ‘Why do you need to know that?’ And she said, ‘Because we need to know how to bill your insurer’.”

This is not an uncommon situation. Private hospitals often check if a patient has insurance during registration. However, this practice has raised concerns that hospitals might be inflating costs for insured patients while offering better (cheaper) deals to those paying OOP.

“I’m not really sure whether hospitals formally charge less for uninsured patients or whether uninsured patients are just in a better position to bargain,” O’Dell said.

“But what I do know is that, according to a doctor, if he has an uninsured patient who is paying out-of-pocket, there will be a lot more due care with what diagnostics or drugs he may order because he knows the patient is paying for it out of their pocket.

“But if the patient has insurance, it doesn’t come into play. The doctor might order whatever he thinks is warranted, sometimes unnecessary, but the sky’s the limit,” O’Dell added. “I think it’s very problematic if hospitals are using dual pricing systems.”

Apart from arbitrary “a la carte” pricing, O’Dell also pointed to potential fraud. He shared an incident where a hand specialist suggested administering a more expensive, non-covered therapy, but billing the life insurance expert’s insurance multiple-fold for a different covered treatment instead.

“Some years ago, I went to a hand specialist to get treatment for arthritis in my thumbs. He said, ‘I want to give you protein-rich plasma, which is a new treatment, but your insurance won’t cover it. So I’m going to bill your insurance for hyaluronic acid and charge them 10 times as much, then give you the plasma for free.’

“I told him, ‘Never mind, just bill me for the right amount. I’ll pay with my credit card and sort it out with the insurance company.’

“I honestly believe that the doctor didn’t even think he was doing anything wrong. I thought he probably thought he was helping, and this is also part of the problem.”

O’Dell said insurance agents can also complicate claims processes, sometimes pressuring doctors to write reports in a way that ensures insurance approval, further contributing to a system prone to misuse and inflated costs.

O’Dell claimed there’s also a lack of serious cost containment efforts in private hospitals. He said effective cost containment would involve dedicated departments, resources, processes, analysis, and visible results leading to lower costs.

“There’s no evidence of serious cost containment. By evidence, I mean you would see a dedicated cost containment department with resources, personnel, processes, and clear results leading to lower costs over time.

“To my knowledge, no hospital has such a department because it runs contrary to the biggest problem that private insurance and a private provider have is there is an economic conflict, right?

“The private provider wants to make as much profit as possible. The private insurer wants to make a profit, but is looking after a pool of money on behalf of the policyholder, right? And they all have different agendas.”

O’Dell strongly disagreed with Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia (APHM) president Dr Kuljit Singh’s assertion that private hospital bills cannot be regulated.

“I disagree 100 per cent,” O’Dell said. He advocates for using Diagnostic Related Groups (DRG) to regulate billing. DRG involves paying a fixed amount based on the complexity of the case, rather than itemising each charge. Hospitals would receive a set amount (e.g., RM21,000) and manage their resources within that budget.

“This is quite commonly the way public systems budget and allocate money to their hospitals for their procedures. It’s not as common in private settings because the private hospitals do not want this. They will make more profit by having these line item bills,” O’Dell said.

The LIAM CEO believes that if the Ministry of Health (MOH) mandates the use of DRGs, it could enforce regulations similar to those for doctors’ fees.

Under Schedule 7 of the Private Healthcare Facilities and Services Act (PHFSA) 1998, private clinic GPs and dentists’ consultation fees are capped at RM10 to RM35, and RM25 to RM250 respectively. Under Schedule 13, private hospital specialists’ consultation fees are legislated at a rate of RM80 to RM235.

O’Dell said DRGs can be adjusted by factors like geography and hospital capability. Similar approaches have been used in past public-private collaborations, such as during the Covid-19 pandemic.

“This happened during Covid, when they used the term ‘decanting,’ which is a bit unusual. They moved patients from public hospitals to private hospitals to free up beds in the public system, and then negotiated a fee for those procedures with the private hospitals. That’s essentially a form of DRG, or it is a DRG. So I believe it can happen. If there’s a will to make it happen, it can be done.”

https://codeblue.galencentre.org/2024/08/28...ZlqiIlcnqLdizFA
Computer^freak
post Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM

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Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
SUSRorschach85
post Aug 29 2024, 08:12 AM

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Insurance CEO surpsied pikachu face? lol
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 09:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
How is insurance industry causing hospitals to overcharge?

Claims affects their profits. No insurance companies will like to settle expensive claims.
Halibut
post Aug 29 2024, 08:15 AM

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Go gov la bodo nak murah
gashout
post Aug 29 2024, 08:16 AM

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both industries colluding with each other... leaving patients with increasing insurance premium every year

both unethical, unprofessional, and money driven. PUI!
Joker123
post Aug 29 2024, 08:17 AM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
exactly right....also the abuse as well...those with insurance always go to the most premium hospital, using the most premium services for the most smallest thing and hospital happily charge, insurance happy pay and then premium happily increase...

worse thing is, those who have insurance but dont utilise also kena
Zot
post Aug 29 2024, 08:17 AM

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Now he knew laugh.gif

MRI, X-ray, CT-Scan, blood test, and antibiotic administration for 2 weeks in hospital + 4 weeks outpatient treatment ended up with total of about 30k shocking.gif
mick84
post Aug 29 2024, 08:18 AM

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Thx to insurance lo.

Agent : insurance naik bcos medical bill naik
Hospital : medical naik bcos insurance ada
knwong
post Aug 29 2024, 08:18 AM

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I’m surprised that he is surprised
Oltromen Ripot
post Aug 29 2024, 08:18 AM

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the concern brought up is valid.

instead of mocking, we should support his revelation, to uncover and put a stop to this practice.
mick84
post Aug 29 2024, 08:19 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:14 AM)
How is insurance industry causing hospitals to overcharge?

Claims affects their profits. No insurance companies will like to settle expensive claims.
*
Try ask for discount if you pay cash instead insurance claim. I did a few times already.
kcal
post Aug 29 2024, 08:20 AM

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insurance kan ada?
moiskyrie
post Aug 29 2024, 08:20 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:16 AM)
both industries colluding with each other... leaving patients with increasing insurance premium every year

both unethical, unprofessional, and money driven. PUI!
*
Hahahaha....
Last week just receive email say my premium gonna increase.....
Reach more that 10 percent of my salary liao....
Plan to just chop off nia...
Anything happen just end the life nia..
xtrabite
post Aug 29 2024, 08:20 AM

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Murah la tu..
Once got complications, how much you guys intended to sue? 100 millions for 18k job..
alanyuppie
post Aug 29 2024, 08:22 AM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 09:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
Barely a karma, since those fee are small changes for him.


Its like receiving an itemized bill for a simple plate for wantan mee showing prices of each and every ingredient. Shocking, yes? Karma, no.



AthrunIJ
post Aug 29 2024, 08:24 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:16 AM)
both industries colluding with each other... leaving patients with increasing insurance premium every year

both unethical, unprofessional, and money driven. PUI!
*
alanyuppie
post Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM

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QUOTE(Oltromen Ripot @ Aug 29 2024, 09:18 AM)
the concern brought up is valid.

instead of mocking, we should support his revelation, to uncover and put a stop to this practice.
*
Its sad really, especially with 40++ years experience moving up the insurance industry.. and YET ignorant to what his clients are experiencing.

What was he doing during those decades of serving his clients? Takkan all sihat walafiat until he no chance/ never encountered itemized hospital bill before?

This post has been edited by alanyuppie: Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM
Lembu Goreng
post Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM

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How is this guy CEO?

andrekua2
post Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM

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Doesnt have to look far...

Look at motor insurance... headlight that you can get outside for 1K++ but when insurance claims suddenly shoot up to RM3K++

Insurance companies brought these upon the consumers.
ju146
post Aug 29 2024, 08:27 AM

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My mum medical insurance going up 44% starting next year
gashout
post Aug 29 2024, 08:27 AM

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QUOTE(Lembu Goreng @ Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM)
How is this guy CEO?
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orang puteh... once enter company, salary and title straight away higher than most people who have been working for many years.

SKIN COLOR MATTERS.
gashout
post Aug 29 2024, 08:28 AM

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Equipment/instrumentation: RM3,850.30

can i bring home since i have officially purchase them..

it didn't say it's rental
SUSrtk74
post Aug 29 2024, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(andrekua2 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM)
Doesnt have to look far...

Look at motor insurance... headlight that you can get outside for 1K++ but when insurance claims suddenly shoot up to RM3K++

Insurance companies brought these upon the consumers.
*
Normal...
Lembu Goreng
post Aug 29 2024, 08:29 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:27 AM)
orang puteh... once enter company, salary and title straight away higher than most people who have been working for many years.

SKIN COLOR MATTERS.
*
yeah. When I left one of my former companies, they hired an angmoh to replace me. Pretty sure they paid that guy at least 4 times of what they paid me. Really cilakak.

Capt. Marble
post Aug 29 2024, 08:31 AM

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If they can get away with it, they will do it.
jonthebaptist
post Aug 29 2024, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:14 AM)
How is insurance industry causing hospitals to overcharge?

Claims affects their profits. No insurance companies will like to settle expensive claims.
*
Moral Hazard
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard
Zot
post Aug 29 2024, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(moiskyrie @ Aug 29 2024, 08:20 AM)
Hahahaha....
Last week just receive email say my premium gonna increase.....
Reach more that 10 percent of my salary liao....
Plan to just chop off nia...
Anything happen just end the life nia..
*
No need an insurance to cover all the way until incurable sickness but just with known cure. Incurable is just prolonging your pain biggrin.gif
jonthebaptist
post Aug 29 2024, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM)
Its sad really, especially with 40++ years experience moving up the insurance industry.. and YET ignorant to what his clients are experiencing.

What was he doing during those decades of serving his clients? Takkan all sihat walafiat until he no chance/ never encountered itemized hospital bill before?
*
Listen to the Professional Expert here. It's time for you to also get insurance before too late.
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 08:35 AM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Aug 29 2024, 09:25 AM)
Its sad really, especially with 40++ years experience moving up the insurance industry.. and YET ignorant to what his clients are experiencing.

What was he doing during those decades of serving his clients? Takkan all sihat walafiat until he no chance/ never encountered itemized hospital bill before?
*
It’s a known fact by insurance companies for a long time and they have been lobbying government to do something about it but nothing is done until today. That’s why they are repricing like mad the past few years because most policies that was underwritten a decade ago are not going to be sustainable. They know that if they reprice, there will be some people who will opt to stop insurance but they don’t have a choice as it will affect their profitability. People need to remember that insurance companies are still biz and they are not charities. At the end, people without insurance will turn to government and it will again not be sustainable. That’s why government is trying to get more people to buy insurance but the high cost of insurance is prohibiting the take up.
MR_alien
post Aug 29 2024, 08:35 AM

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there are 2 sides to this story

1. finally kena back by someone at the top of the industry itself
2. this will give people an idea how much the gov is subsidizing the people PER MONTH in the public healthcare industry
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 08:38 AM

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QUOTE(jonthebaptist @ Aug 29 2024, 09:32 AM)
So how is it insurance companies fault? Did you read what you link?
moiskyrie
post Aug 29 2024, 08:38 AM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Aug 29 2024, 08:34 AM)
No need an insurance to cover all the way until incurable sickness but just with known cure. Incurable is just prolonging your pain  biggrin.gif
*
Like my relative that work in private hospital....
She keep complaint...
The patient already no hope already,
Better send the patient home to live last few moment with family...
But the hospital management and doctor keep don't want and keep do unnecessary operation, medication, etc just so can utilise 100% patient insurance which at 1~2 million.....
g5sim
post Aug 29 2024, 08:40 AM

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Balulahil semaram? Singapore also like this.
skywardsword
post Aug 29 2024, 08:40 AM

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Feedback loop.

Healthcare price expensive, insurance expensive.

Healthcare more expensive, insurance more expensive.

In before, too expensive, just take 2bijil panadol and hope for the best. I did that for 2 weeks. Before I got a break and went to see the doctor and ask for antibiotics... doctor said...yup you definitely have that problem, Google the pus picture for me to see ...

Just 2 dose of antibiotics and I start to feel like major relief. Also had prednisolone and lidocaine laced strepsil.

(Damage to pocket is not so high, but I am already b40, because all three child and wife also went to see doctors for antibiotics and other medicine over 1plus months.











TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ Aug 29 2024, 09:35 AM)
there are 2 sides to this story

1. finally kena back by someone at the top of the industry itself
2. this will give people an idea how much the gov is subsidizing the people PER MONTH in the public healthcare industry
*
From what I heard, there’s a lot of talk between the government, insurance companies and private hospitals. The private hospitals are standing firm that their costs can’t be regulated but insurance companies want it to be regulated. Thr government also want to solve this problem as it’s affecting the government hospitals as more people will turn to government hospitals when they can’t afford insurance anymore.
kcal
post Aug 29 2024, 08:42 AM

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i see got ppl demonize insurance here. fact is if these insurance companies not there, stockmarkets will not prosper, who going to buy shares? then if company need money to fund a mega project u have limited option to get capital la since ipo oso will undersubsribed since no insurance conpanies to subscribe ipo. then oso got many ppl will just mati katak. if u do high risk job and suddenly lose ur arm or leg, u almost got nothing la.

This post has been edited by kcal: Aug 29 2024, 08:49 AM
jojolicia
post Aug 29 2024, 08:43 AM

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Regulate medical fee, chargables, list of procedure cost/ fees etc etc with a strong regulatory council/ panel overseeing all these chargables/ and fees. They comprise the very 'seniors' with no conflict of interest in the healthcare industry...

why other can do it right but not msia leh?

This post has been edited by jojolicia: Aug 29 2024, 08:44 AM
zeese
post Aug 29 2024, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:28 AM)
Equipment/instrumentation: RM3,850.30

can i bring home since i have officially purchase them..

it didn't say it's rental
*
it's a rental price.. its like you pay RM8 for tyre balancing, it never means you can get the equipment to do the balancing.. biggrin.gif
sexysarah1992
post Aug 29 2024, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(mick84 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:19 AM)
Try ask for discount if you pay cash instead insurance claim. I did a few times already.
*
If u have insurance, why TF would u want to pay cash?

U guys paying few hundred every month for insurance wanna complain?

At the end of the day, everyone needs to get paid. Its not only a problem with the insurance industry.

Every industry is increasing their prices because thats just how the world works. Without price increase, how can there is salary increments?

The thing is , the bill is settled by the insurance company. So why you care how much the hospital charges? You scared your premium increase next year? Premium will definitely increase as you age regardless you made any claim for the simple fact that you are a higher risk to the insurer as you age.
MR_alien
post Aug 29 2024, 08:46 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:41 AM)
From what I heard, there’s a lot of talk between the government, insurance companies and private hospitals. The private hospitals are standing firm that their costs can’t be regulated but insurance companies want it to be regulated. Thr government also want to solve this problem as it’s affecting the government hospitals as more people will turn to government hospitals when they can’t afford insurance anymore.
*
and more will leave KKM laugh.gif

solution?.....stop free healthcare
sexysarah1992
post Aug 29 2024, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:28 AM)
Equipment/instrumentation: RM3,850.30

can i bring home since i have officially purchase them..

it didn't say it's rental
*
U think hospital equipment is 3.8k? Lol

More like 50k and above dude
ThirdSon
post Aug 29 2024, 08:47 AM

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arbitrary pricing

unregulated medical bills

complicate claims processes

system prone to misuse
anakkk
post Aug 29 2024, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Aug 29 2024, 08:17 AM)
Now he knew  laugh.gif

MRI, X-ray, CT-Scan, blood test, and antibiotic administration for 2 weeks in hospital + 4 weeks outpatient treatment ended up with total of about 30k  shocking.gif
*
my kids were hospitalised for influenza for 1 week both kids come up to 20k+ medical bill, yikes

hospital is good business
gashout
post Aug 29 2024, 08:48 AM

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QUOTE(moiskyrie @ Aug 29 2024, 08:38 AM)
Like my relative that work in private hospital....
She keep complaint...
The patient already no hope already,
Better send the patient home to live last few moment with family...
But the hospital management and doctor keep don't want and keep do unnecessary operation,  medication,  etc just so can utilise 100% patient insurance which at 1~2 million.....
*
illness industry just want to milk you till you are dead...

even give you unnecessary medicine and operation
gashout
post Aug 29 2024, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(sexysarah1992 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:47 AM)
U think hospital equipment is 3.8k? Lol

More like 50k and above dude
*
dont make me as stupid to your level

what they itemised we don't know... im asking as it is.

it didn't say rental.
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 08:51 AM

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QUOTE(sexysarah1992 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:45 AM)
If u have insurance, why TF would u want to pay cash?

U guys paying few hundred every month for insurance wanna complain?

At the end of the day, everyone needs to get paid. Its not only a problem with the insurance industry.

Every industry is increasing their prices because thats just how the world works. Without price increase, how can there is salary increments?

The thing is , the bill is settled by the insurance company. So why you care how much the hospital charges? You scared your premium increase next year? Premium will definitely increase as you age regardless you made any claim for the simple fact that you are a higher risk to the insurer as you age.
*
If you don’t care, insurance premiums will get even more expensive until you can’t afford it. If you see 10 or 20 years ago, insurance hardly reprice but today I am sure a lot in k keep getting repricing letters every few years as the medical inflation cost is getting ridiculous.

If you settle by cash, the cost is lower than when it’s settled by insurance. Why is that happening? If you think it won’t affect you as insurance companies will settle for you, wait until you get repricing letter lah 😝
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post Aug 29 2024, 08:52 AM

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https://www.carecredit.com/well-u/health-we...r-surgery-cost/

in usa is usd4-11k
Roadwarrior1337
post Aug 29 2024, 08:52 AM

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Basically patient have to pay for the cost of hospital. Everything include tissue paper is charged

Hospital charge entire lot and claim profit only

Buto that’s why people flood gov hospital

I did minor ct scan also cost 6k for overnight


TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 08:54 AM

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QUOTE(Roadwarrior1337 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:52 AM)
Basically patient have to pay for the cost of hospital. Everything include tissue paper is charged

Hospital charge entire lot and claim profit only

Buto that’s why people flood gov hospital

I did minor ct scan also cost 6k for overnight
*
The CEO is right because most of the things the itemised in the bill, we don’t know what the heck it is but you just have to accept it.
smsid
post Aug 29 2024, 08:54 AM

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Business that prosper upon your own misfortune (poor health) is prone to any abusement.

That's why Hippocratic Oath was made as a cornerstone in medicine, to remind them of their obligations and not to stray far from it.

Like how Google has "don't be evil" slogan before, but they stray too far already when they decided to use A.I robotic as killing machines.
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QUOTE(lj0000 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:52 AM)
That’s why USA has one of the most expensive healthcare and if you don’t have insurance, hospitals won’t even treat you
quebix
post Aug 29 2024, 08:56 AM

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well this mark O'Dell works in insurance industry, and this directly effects them.

yeah its true.
demam sikit tahan 2,3 hari kat hospital for monitoring.
end up just normal fever but bill rm4k, takpe claim insurance.



Taikor.Taikun
post Aug 29 2024, 08:58 AM

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His industry is the one that caused all this. Why is he surprised? Need double standard??
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QUOTE(anakkk @ Aug 29 2024, 08:47 AM)
my kids were hospitalised for influenza for 1 week both kids come up to 20k+ medical bill, yikes

hospital is good business
*
Must be serious. Mine was hospitalized for 3 days each. Cost 4.7k each.

Doctor:900
Nursing: 600
Room: 400

Rest was facilities, tests, equipment, medicine, etc.
jonthebaptist
post Aug 29 2024, 09:00 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:38 AM)
So how is it insurance companies fault? Did you read what you link?
*
The concept still the same, just different stakeholders.
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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
LEL
As my wife working in insurance industry for more than 10years, the biggest culprit are the policies holder.
Some of them abuse its policies until both BNM and insurance company create various redtape to prevent it.


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post Aug 29 2024, 09:00 AM

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ohh its regulated all right

but just amongst the private hospitals

do u know that a private hospital must charge within x% range to other private hospitals?

because of insurance

insurance can just refuse to pay above a certain amount to hospital X if hospital Y charges cheaper

wong_86
post Aug 29 2024, 09:02 AM

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well well, just recevied notification, my premium increase about 26%...the fuck lol

This post has been edited by wong_86: Aug 29 2024, 09:02 AM
johnnycp
post Aug 29 2024, 09:03 AM

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Ownself started that shit and now show surprised pikachu face. Aku terkejut bila nampak kau terkejut. Terkejut-ception
sexysarah1992
post Aug 29 2024, 09:04 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:49 AM)
dont make me as stupid to your level

what they itemised we don't know... im asking as it is.

it didn't say rental.
*
You are memang stupid to think that hospital equipments are cheap.

QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:51 AM)
If you don’t care, insurance premiums will get even more expensive until you can’t afford it. If you see 10 or 20 years ago, insurance hardly reprice but today I am sure a lot in k keep getting repricing letters every few years as the medical inflation cost is getting ridiculous.

If you settle by cash, the cost is lower than when it’s settled by insurance. Why is that happening? If you think it won’t affect you as insurance companies will settle for you, wait until you get repricing letter lah 😝
*
The increase in premiums are minimal lah dude. I myself have got my premiums increased and no it was not because i made any claim. Its because we are getting older. So of course premiums will increase. You are paying few hundred a month for a peace of mind . I definitely am not complaining .

Change is the only constant in this world. Prices will go up because salaries only can go up and therefore costs of manufacturing and services will go up.


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QUOTE(jonthebaptist @ Aug 29 2024, 10:00 AM)
The concept still the same, just different stakeholders.
*
Do you know how insurance do their pricing or not in the first place?
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(sexysarah1992 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:04 AM)
You are memang stupid to think that hospital equipments are cheap.
The increase in premiums are minimal lah dude. I myself have got my premiums increased and no it was not because i made any claim. Its because we are getting older. So of course premiums will increase. You are paying few hundred a month for a peace of mind . I definitely am not complaining .

Change is the only constant in this world. Prices will go up because salaries only can go up and therefore costs of manufacturing and services will go up.
*
The getting older increase are the normal one and not significant increase but wait until you get the ones about medical inflation.

You ask k lah. How many already kena.
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QUOTE(Taikor.Taikun @ Aug 29 2024, 09:58 AM)
His industry is the one that caused all this. Why is he surprised? Need double standard??
*
How is it they cause this. Do you think they want to reprice? Do you know that their repricing requires BNM approval and must be justified but in recent years BNM can’t really say no to their repricing due to medical inflation.
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QUOTE(anakkk @ Aug 29 2024, 08:47 AM)
my kids were hospitalised for influenza for 1 week both kids come up to 20k+ medical bill, yikes

hospital is good business
*
I can tell this is ridiculous since antiviral medication is not something new but have been around for years. Furthermore, the flu medication is works best if it is administered within 2 day of infection according to the CDC USA, thus it can shortened the sickness duration.

The drug actually is not a cure but it works only by blocking the neuraminidase enzyme, which is needed for the flu virus to replicate giving your body time to produce antibody to kill the virus. However, it is not recommended to get medication when you are in contact with people who got flu thinking it would prevent you from getting infected. This might just created virus that is immune to medication. This is where vaccination plays it role. smile.gif
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post Aug 29 2024, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:48 AM)
illness industry just want to milk you till you are dead...

even give you unnecessary medicine and operation
*
And most of the patient can move to normal ward,
But doctor keep hold the patient in icu ward……
End up icu overload until patient dead….
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post Aug 29 2024, 09:10 AM

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Just go bek his home country or go singapore and get same surgery done. Easily 2x more than that lah.
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post Aug 29 2024, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(wong_86 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:02 AM)
well well, just recevied notification, my premium increase about 26%...the fuck lol
*
Its the time to terminate and boycott insurance service.
askingquestion
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QUOTE(andrekua2 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM)
Doesnt have to look far...

Look at motor insurance... headlight that you can get outside for 1K++ but when insurance claims suddenly shoot up to RM3K++

Insurance companies brought these upon the consumers.
*
+1

Like you go to private clinic

When the doctors knows you can claim back from your company, they will give you alot of medicine and expensive shit.

Sometimes normal thing like diarrhea, flu, etc they will give up to RM80, RM90 etc of medicine because they know you can claim back.

But if you go pharmacy, buy the medicine yourself, maybe just cost RM20, RM30 only.
Minolta
post Aug 29 2024, 09:16 AM

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On this, O’Dell recounted another troubling incident. “I mean this really happened to me. I walked to my ENT specialist, and the first thing the nurse asked me was, ‘Do you have an insurance policy?’ and I said, ‘Why do you need to know that?’ And she said, ‘Because we need to know how to bill your insurer’.”


For some CEO of insurance, ini memang bodoh. Even i understand, see doktor not like buy grocery. Buy grocery, just pay in the end at counter. All come from own pocket.
See doctor, if got insurance, need to apply Guarantee Letter first. This must be done before seeing doktor lah. Of course nurse ask if got insurance. Bodoh.
prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE
Some argue that patients with insurance can end up paying 100 per cent more than those who pay out-of-pocket (OOP).


This is very true. Happened to my friend.
Gall bladder stone removal. Pay by insurance RM20k. Cash 8k

The whole private hospitals/medical insurance is a big scam.
angelgemini
post Aug 29 2024, 09:19 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:14 AM)
How is insurance industry causing hospitals to overcharge?

Claims affects their profits. No insurance companies will like to settle expensive claims.
*
oh, u have insurance,
let go ct scan, MRI and etc before we fix it.
Nvm, insurance coved, let go
all covered, no worry.



oh, u dun have insurance,
ok, i think you have this issue, let fix it.
No money,
okok, MRI, CT scan is totally not required.
you can buy medication at outside.


thxxht
post Aug 29 2024, 09:19 AM

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a friend had lung infection and mild pnuemonia, she couldn't breath so she had to be admitted. end up staying for 4 nights, no surgery, just antibiotics injection and monitoring. end up the bill was RM7k+

my own experience, 3 month old baby had high fever (38C), had to be admitted and stayed for 4 nights, antibiotics injection as well, single room. bill was RM5k+, paid out of own pocket (claimed later), if i used my medical card it would have been RM10k+.
jonthebaptist
post Aug 29 2024, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:05 AM)
Do you know how insurance do their pricing or not in the first place?
*
Do you know how greedy human is?
Rusty Nail
post Aug 29 2024, 09:20 AM

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Kek hospital probably used a few pieces of probe cover but charged him the entire box of 100
sexysarah1992
post Aug 29 2024, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:06 AM)
The getting older increase are the normal one and not significant increase but wait until you get the ones about medical inflation.

You ask k lah. How many already kena.
*
No choice dude. A specialist didnt study for 10-15 years to earn some peanut money. Inflation happens in every country. Thats why need to work smarter for more income
prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 09:25 AM

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This statement is already FISHY!

QUOTE
O’Dell strongly disagreed with Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia (APHM) president Dr Kuljit Singh’s assertion that private hospital bills cannot be regulated.

hoonanoo
post Aug 29 2024, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
Aiya insurance issue is everywhere, even for car accident claims, for eg.

The Body shop can add parts, you don't even know.
BL98
post Aug 29 2024, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(Rorschach85 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:12 AM)
Insurance CEO surpsied pikachu face? lol
*
He is from other countries, surprised by our country's culture
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post Aug 29 2024, 09:26 AM

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I don't understand why ktarda blame insurance companies instead of hospitals for inflating bills.

You think insurance companies love to pay high bills and then simply charge higher premiums? It's like saying a mamak restaurant can anyhow rent an upscale location, buy expensive ingredients (kena chopped by middlemen) and simply charge RM15 for mee goreng biasa.

I think if they are too strict in approving claims, they risk losing current and future customers. After all, will ktards buy insurance from a company that scrutinises hospital bills 99 and don't give blanket approval easily?
cHaRsIeWpAu^^
post Aug 29 2024, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(andrekua2 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM)
Doesnt have to look far...

Look at motor insurance... headlight that you can get outside for 1K++ but when insurance claims suddenly shoot up to RM3K++

Insurance companies brought these upon the consumers.
*
im in this industry.

outside price of course is discounted/bulk price, we have to put retail price to do insurance claim.
somemore insurance will deduct out the betterment depends on your vehicle year.

if not our workshop earn what?
friedricetheman
post Aug 29 2024, 09:27 AM

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My son’s brain surgery was RM180k or something with insurance. Same thing with his physio after the operation, around RM400+ for 2 hour sessions but konon after insurance no more coverage, the physio only cost RM200 for 2 hours session.
Minolta
post Aug 29 2024, 09:27 AM

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Consignment supplies: RM3,189
Equipment/instrumentation: RM3,850.30
Gases supply: RM61.19
Imaging: RM77
Laboratory investigation: RM120.70
Medical and surgical supplies: RM2,105.60
Medication: RM2,606.68
Miscellaneous: RM158.50
Nursing care: RM139.50
Nursing procedure: RM27.70
Operating theatre: RM1,372.40
Room and board: RM2,508
Doctors’ charges: RM2,621


Room and board : rm2,508

Got many types of room in private centre. The fella chose to stay in a 2k+ room. One night stay. Almost as much as doctor fees (split between surgeon and anesthetist some more). Obviously he chose this room becoz insurance pay. If own pocket, will he choose a top tier room? This is likely a suite. I think most private hospital for rm100+ beds for 4 person sharing.
submergedx
post Aug 29 2024, 09:27 AM

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hahahahahaha TOPKEK STORY OF THE YEAR

It's like a playboy told you IM SHOCKED THAT IM VIRGIN
prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(submergedx @ Aug 29 2024, 09:27 AM)
hahahahahaha TOPKEK STORY OF THE YEAR

It's like a playboy told you IM SHOCKED THAT IM VIRGIN
*
Point is: Are you OK with this sort of unethical practice by the private hospitals?
Jv8888
post Aug 29 2024, 09:31 AM

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do we have any legal authorities to check up on those hospital bills? Or they can simply include whatever shit in their bills and claim from your insurance? The cost to remove my son's hand cast around 2k+ which claimed from insurance. Only half day at hospital, consult doctor, and remove the hand cast. No medicine, xray, etc.
submergedx
post Aug 29 2024, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(Minolta @ Aug 29 2024, 09:27 AM)
Consignment supplies: RM3,189
Equipment/instrumentation: RM3,850.30
Gases supply: RM61.19
Imaging: RM77
Laboratory investigation: RM120.70
Medical and surgical supplies: RM2,105.60
Medication: RM2,606.68
Miscellaneous: RM158.50
Nursing care: RM139.50
Nursing procedure: RM27.70
Operating theatre: RM1,372.40
Room and board: RM2,508
Doctors’ charges: RM2,621
Room and board : rm2,508

Got many types of room in private centre. The fella chose to stay in a 2k+ room. One night stay. Almost as much as doctor fees (split between surgeon and anesthetist some more). Obviously he chose this room becoz insurance pay. If own pocket, will he choose a top tier room? This is likely a suite. I think most private hospital for rm100+ beds for 4 person sharing.
*
user posted image
user posted image
submergedx
post Aug 29 2024, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(cHaRsIeWpAu^^ @ Aug 29 2024, 09:26 AM)
im in this industry.

outside medicine price of course is discounted/bulk price, we have to put retail price to do insurance claim.
somemore insurance will deduct out the betterment depends on your body every year.

if not our hospital earn what?
*
Same concept, same position.

You are right sir. You are right.

This post has been edited by submergedx: Aug 29 2024, 09:33 AM
submergedx
post Aug 29 2024, 09:35 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Aug 29 2024, 09:28 AM)
Point is: Are you OK with this sort of unethical practice by the private hospitals?
*
Hospital: who say this is unethical, you come do doctor la

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Water so deep, do you know why it was never bring up to the spotlight discussion ever since?


prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(submergedx @ Aug 29 2024, 09:35 AM)
Hospital: who say this is unethical, you come do doctor la

laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif

Water so deep, do you know why it was never bring up to the spotlight discussion ever since?
*
You mean:

If i pay cash, the bill is RM8k.
If by insurance, the bill is RM20k.

IS ETHICAL?
submergedx
post Aug 29 2024, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
Guess what, insurance group corp are profit billions each every year.

Who cares, just pass the cost to consumer.
Treepex
post Aug 29 2024, 09:45 AM

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actually
that price looks normal to me, no?
submergedx
post Aug 29 2024, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Aug 29 2024, 09:37 AM)
You mean:

If i pay cash, the bill is RM8k.
If by insurance, the bill is RM20k.

IS ETHICAL?
*
Nothing much you and me can do.
The water are too deep and it is tangling with the whole industry that run billions revenue in Malaysia.

Just get yourself covered is the least that we can do.
prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(submergedx @ Aug 29 2024, 09:45 AM)
Nothing much you and me can do.
The water are too deep and it is tangling with the whole industry that run billions revenue in Malaysia.

Just get yourself covered is the least that we can do.
*
QUOTE
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

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post Aug 29 2024, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:16 AM)
both industries colluding with each other... leaving patients with increasing insurance premium every year

both unethical, unprofessional, and money driven. PUI!
*
QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*

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post Aug 29 2024, 09:49 AM

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5y ago i go colubia sugery sikit pon mau 16k liao
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post Aug 29 2024, 09:49 AM

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There are doctors working in insurance companies. They will go through the claims to see what is reasonable and what is not. You think the insurance company will pay out all items that are claimed?

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post Aug 29 2024, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(submergedx @ Aug 29 2024, 09:42 AM)
Guess what, insurance group corp are profit billions each every year.

Who cares, just pass the cost to consumer.
*
Hahahaha…
Sound like the reason my insurance say when hike the premium…..
It say due to 79 people in 1000 claim,
And this cause the insurance company making lose…
So need hike the premium…….

Meanwhile, next day see newspaper,
Insurance company make billions of profit…
And bod all get increment of bonus….

Bullshit….
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post Aug 29 2024, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Aug 29 2024, 09:37 AM)
You mean:

If i pay cash, the bill is RM8k.
If by insurance, the bill is RM20k.

IS ETHICAL?
*
Ini unsubstantiated claim. No detail head or tail. Macam sensationalised.

This case got name and bill breakdown. Can see details. More substantiated.
prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(Minolta @ Aug 29 2024, 09:55 AM)
Ini unsubstantiated claim. No detail head or tail. Macam sensationalised.

This case got name and bill breakdown. Can see details. More substantiated.
*
THAT is a real life experience. It's for gall stone removal some years back.
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post Aug 29 2024, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Aug 29 2024, 09:56 AM)
THAT is a real life experience. It's for gall stone removal some years back.
*
Sharelah name and bill. Then we dissect here macam LIaM CEO case
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QUOTE(Jv8888 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:31 AM)
do we have any legal authorities to check up on those hospital bills? Or they can simply include whatever shit in their bills and claim from your insurance? The cost to remove my son's hand cast around 2k+ which claimed from insurance. Only half day at hospital, consult doctor, and remove the hand cast. No medicine, xray, etc.
*
O’Dell strongly disagreed with Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia (APHM) president Dr Kuljit Singh’s assertion that private hospital bills cannot be regulated.

There’s no regulation to regulate the hospitals charging.
gashout
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QUOTE(sexysarah1992 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:04 AM)
You are memang stupid to think that hospital equipments are cheap.
The increase in premiums are minimal lah dude. I myself have got my premiums increased and no it was not because i made any claim. Its because we are getting older. So of course premiums will increase. You are paying few hundred a month for a peace of mind . I definitely am not complaining .

Change is the only constant in this world. Prices will go up because salaries only can go up and therefore costs of manufacturing and services will go up.
*
insurance agent talking... masuk akal
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post Aug 29 2024, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
Even in USA!
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(Minolta @ Aug 29 2024, 10:16 AM)
On this, O’Dell recounted another troubling incident. “I mean this really happened to me. I walked to my ENT specialist, and the first thing the nurse asked me was, ‘Do you have an insurance policy?’ and I said, ‘Why do you need to know that?’ And she said, ‘Because we need to know how to bill your insurer’.”
For some CEO of insurance, ini memang bodoh. Even i understand, see doktor not like buy grocery. Buy grocery, just pay in the end at counter. All come from own pocket.
See doctor, if got insurance, need to apply Guarantee Letter first. This must be done before seeing doktor lah. Of course nurse ask if got insurance. Bodoh.
*
You got read what he said or not? The nurse asking for for insurance to know how to bill him. It’s not to apply Letter of Guarantee as he’s just going to see a specialist.
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QUOTE(moiskyrie @ Aug 29 2024, 09:52 AM)
Hahahaha…
Sound like the reason my insurance say when hike the premium…..
It say due to 79 people in 1000 claim,
And this cause the insurance company making lose…
So need hike the premium…….

Meanwhile, next day see newspaper,
Insurance company make billions of profit…
And bod all get increment of bonus….

Bullshit….
*
kevin shemale says for a piece of mind, can lah
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post Aug 29 2024, 10:07 AM

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is a known problem, but nobody ll going to look into it, at least get it regulated & monitored..

once you enter to the Private hospital, you ll get ready to be "chopped"..

macam Doctor ada monthly KPI tu, keep asking you to admit to ward first,,, then there comes with all the tak tau apa charges..

'They ll ask "claim insurance' or "Bayar sendiri"..... brows.gif


Too be fair, some Doctor is still good, they ll always suggest you to buy medicine from farmasi outside.. coz Hospital sell gila price on certain medicine..



This post has been edited by antoniobakrie: Aug 29 2024, 10:12 AM
gashout
post Aug 29 2024, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Aug 29 2024, 09:16 AM)
This is very true. Happened to my friend.
Gall bladder stone removal. Pay by insurance RM20k. Cash 8k

The whole private hospitals/medical insurance is a big scam.
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+1
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 11:05 AM)
kevin shemale says for a piece of mind, can lah
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That’s how insurance companies work. Insurance companies are biz after all and they need to be profitable first to be sustainable.

The question you should be asking is why the 79 people medical claims is so high until it affects the 1000?

That’s why the CEO is trying to point out but strangely people here has the perception that insurance companies are the guilty party.
GiganticBird
post Aug 29 2024, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(askingquestion @ Aug 29 2024, 09:11 AM)
+1

Like you go to private clinic

When the doctors knows you can claim back from your company, they will give you alot of medicine and expensive shit.

Sometimes normal thing like diarrhea, flu, etc they will give up to RM80, RM90 etc of medicine because they know you can claim back.

But if you go pharmacy, buy the medicine yourself, maybe just cost RM20, RM30 only.
*
true, my pren visit private clinic for normal body checkup je but they know hes going to claim back from his company, so they pakat with my pren to take expensive health screening package and prescribed him with lot of supplements tht could last him for 2 years lmao, claiming over 1k+

so i am not surprised when big company or mnc cut medical claim, cause they know their cb employees gonna abuse it


same thing happen with private hospitals trying to take advantage of patient's insurance claim, hentam unecesssary treatments and medicines, unjustifiably high operation fees and so on, last last fund pool isnt enough and cannot sustain, then how? increase price lo whistling.gif


TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 11:08 AM)
+1
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How is insurance a scam in this case? They settled the claims even though it’s 20K when it should be 8K only?
autodriver
post Aug 29 2024, 10:14 AM

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Nowaday priviate hospital is about making big money as top priority and that's why more and more hospitals built in recent years. My friend had welcomed his child few years back and initial cost of c section was RM 7.5k and another 1.5k is for new born. But the final bill come out was RM 12k, over 30% higher than the price they listed. My friend shock but since wife and baby he did not question much.

After 2 weeks of giving birth of baby my friend brought his wife for follow up checking with the gynae doctor. My friend bring up that the final price is RM12k which is not cheap for a 3 star hospital. The doctor get shock because he thought below RM10k. This show that the doctor actually did not know the final price the hospital charge to patient.
gashout
post Aug 29 2024, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(autodriver @ Aug 29 2024, 10:14 AM)
Nowaday priviate hospital is about making big money as top priority and that's why more and more hospitals built in recent years. My friend had welcomed his child few years back and initial cost of c section was RM 7.5k and another 1.5k is for new born. But the final bill come out was RM 12k, over 30% higher than the price they listed. My friend shock but since wife and baby he did not question much.

After 2 weeks of giving birth of baby my friend brought his wife for follow up checking with the gynae doctor. My friend bring up that the final price is RM12k which is not cheap for a 3 star hospital. The doctor get shock because he thought below RM10k. This show that the doctor actually did not know the final price the hospital charge to patient.
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wait till you pikachu many private hospitals want you to do C section only
WinkyJr
post Aug 29 2024, 10:17 AM

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a box of med charged by private hospital RM600+
a same box of med can buy on shopee for <RM100

This post has been edited by WinkyJr: Aug 29 2024, 10:18 AM
Coldf3ar
post Aug 29 2024, 10:18 AM

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if you saw my thread bfore, i kena stomachache last month.
then few weeks later my friend also kena same thing. went to private use insurance. warded 1 day then get mc 7 days. saw the bill diu rm3.6k blink.gif biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Coldf3ar: Aug 29 2024, 10:18 AM
netflix2019
post Aug 29 2024, 10:21 AM

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adenoid ablation and tonsil removal. 2 night in hospital.

RM16000
Boomwick
post Aug 29 2024, 10:25 AM

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Check ihh and kpj profit ad know lo
lotussgot
post Aug 29 2024, 10:29 AM

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Insurance industry , esp Medical & Private Hospital charging patients need sit down and settle this issue one & for all.

Madani , you can do it , Transport Ministry already made good progress , esp on Airline refunds and such ................

Now, KKM & MOT need do much work to plotek the rakyat.
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post Aug 29 2024, 10:31 AM

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Syringe 10ml Luer Lock Terumo 3 rm23.40


TERUMO SYRINGE 10ML WITHOUT NEEDLE (LUER LOCK TIP)- 100 PCS (TS10ML) rm59
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TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(lotussgot @ Aug 29 2024, 11:29 AM)
Insurance industry , esp Medical & Private Hospital charging patients need sit down and settle this issue one & for all.

Madani , you can do it , Transport Ministry already made good progress , esp on Airline refunds and such ................

Now, KKM & MOT need do much work to plotek the rakyat.
*
They are already in talks and the government is advocating it but the private hospitals seems to take a stand that their pricing can’t be regulated.

KKM can’t do much as it’s free market and it’s different from the refunds.

This post has been edited by 30624770: Aug 29 2024, 10:33 AM
Taikor.Taikun
post Aug 29 2024, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 09:09 AM)
How is it they cause this. Do you think they want to reprice? Do you know that their repricing requires BNM approval and must be justified but in recent years BNM can’t really say no to their repricing due to medical inflation.
*
Do u know this scheme opens the door wide for medical inflation? Do u know it’s an abused system worldwide? Do u know America tries to abolish such scheme?
Dyson Jin
post Aug 29 2024, 10:33 AM

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if no mahal how agents go oversea,pakai luxury car???Hahaha

Anyways,
yes u can mahal if use private,but don't terlalu mahal la..ppl now keep abuse insurance claim..
sick also ward,sakit perut also ward,denggi also ward
some with cash allowance package,1 day rm200
5 days rm1000 cash masuk patient pocket..premium sure increase la..walao
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(Taikor.Taikun @ Aug 29 2024, 11:32 AM)
Do u know this scheme opens the door wide for medical inflation? Do u know it’s an abused system worldwide? Do u know America tries to abolish such scheme?
*
So, what’s the solution? No more insurance?

No insurance mean everyone go to government hospitals?

Just ask yourself why this is not an issue 10 years ago?

This post has been edited by 30624770: Aug 29 2024, 10:35 AM
Taikor.Taikun
post Aug 29 2024, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:34 AM)
So, what’s the solution? No more insurance?

No insurance mean everyone go to government hospitals?

Just ask yourself why this is not an issue 10 years ago?
*
What?? This has been an issue all along. Damn. I stop here
viktorherald
post Aug 29 2024, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(Dyson Jin @ Aug 29 2024, 10:33 AM)
if no mahal how agents go oversea,pakai luxury car???Hahaha

Anyways,
yes u can mahal if use private,but don't terlalu mahal la..ppl now keep abuse insurance claim..
sick also ward,sakit perut also ward,denggi also ward
some with cash allowance package,1 day rm200
5 days rm1000 cash masuk patient pocket..premium sure increase la..walao
*
denggi ward is warranted in some cases... Some ppl too lethargic until need to IV
Minolta
post Aug 29 2024, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:04 AM)
You got read what he said or not? The nurse asking for for insurance to know how to bill him. It’s not to apply Letter of Guarantee as he’s just going to see a specialist.
*
You obviously dont know how it works. If got insurance (even for outpatient coverage), need to apply for GL BEFORE seeing. This process can take 1-2 hours. If lets say during application got issue (limit inadequate, policy expired etc), then they will let the customer know if want to proceed to self pay. If GL issued, then the final bill will go direct to insurance. Customer pays nothing.

If no insurance, then no need take trouble apply for anything. Final bill goes straight to customer and he pays before leaving.

Hence the nurse will always ask if got insurance or not during registration. Not because the nurse will put different level of charges if got insurance.
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(Taikor.Taikun @ Aug 29 2024, 11:36 AM)
What?? This has been an issue all along. Damn. I stop here
*
The cost of private hospitals are not so high 10 years ago. That’s why you hardly hear repricing back then. Even for repricing, it’s just a small amount only unlike today where you get repricing so often and the increase is very significant.
prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:12 AM)
How is insurance a scam in this case? They settled the claims even though it’s 20K when it should be 8K only?
*
Do you understand medical insurance?
Most med insurance have limits of coverage.
If they claim 20k instead of the 8k form your insurance, you lose 12k from your covered amount.
modlingguntio
post Aug 29 2024, 10:42 AM

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Hospital need to be fair la, why charge higher if claim through insurance causing consumer need to pay more
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(Minolta @ Aug 29 2024, 11:39 AM)
You obviously dont know how it works. If got insurance (even for outpatient coverage), need to apply for GL BEFORE seeing. This process can take 1-2 hours. If lets say during application got issue (limit inadequate, policy expired etc), then they will let the customer know if want to proceed to self pay. If GL issued, then the final bill will go direct to insurance. Customer pays nothing.

If no insurance, then no need take trouble apply for anything. Final bill goes straight to customer and he pays before leaving.

Hence the nurse will always ask if got insurance or not during registration. Not because the nurse will put different level of charges if got insurance.
*
GL is issued for hospitalisation lah. In this case he’s going to see specialist only not getting hospitalised. The nurse is asking whether you have insurance in this case like how you claim your company insurance lah. You go see GP also the same. When you say you are claiming, the bill will be higher than paying cash.

This post has been edited by 30624770: Aug 29 2024, 10:45 AM
coyouth
post Aug 29 2024, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:05 AM)
KUALA LUMPUR, August 28 — Back in May, Mark O’Dell, chief executive of the Life Insurance Association of Malaysia (LIAM), received a 13-page bill amounting to RM18,837.55 for a minor hernia operation he did at a private hospital in Kuala Lumpur.

The former CEO of AIA and Manulife in Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and Taiwan – who has over 44 years’ experience in the life insurance business – was baffled and thought: “How could a simple procedure with a one-night hospital stay result in a 13-page bill?”

The document, issued on May 28, was filled with numerous line items, most of which the insurance industry veteran didn’t fully understand.

“ You look at all the items, and I don’t understand some of the things that are on there,” O’Dell told CodeBlue in an interview on August 16. “How do I, as a consumer, understand what’s necessary and what’s not? It’s just not right.”

The bill included charges for 95 line items across 13 different categories totaling RM18,837.57 (the final bill was rounded up to RM18,837.55):

Consignment supplies: RM3,189
Equipment/instrumentation: RM3,850.30
Gases supply: RM61.19
Imaging: RM77
Laboratory investigation: RM120.70
Medical and surgical supplies: RM2,105.60
Medication: RM2,606.68
Miscellaneous: RM158.50
Nursing care: RM139.50
Nursing procedure: RM27.70
Operating theatre: RM1,372.40
Room and board: RM2,508
Doctors’ charges: RM2,621

“This arthroscopic surgery is a wonderful thing actually. They don’t have to cut you open. You heal much faster, and maybe that’s why some of the costs are higher,” O’Dell said.

“But some of these things here, I just look at this – three disposable underpads for RM32.70, ear probe cover for RM6.30. None of this is regulated. There’s no reason why tomorrow they can’t make this RM6.60 or RM7.60.”

Doctors’ charges of RM2,621 comprised just 14 per cent of the total hospital bill, while medications at RM2,606.68 formed another 14 per cent.

The biggest chunk of O’Dell’s hospital bill went to equipment/instrumentation at RM3,850.30, forming 20 per cent.

The LIAM CEO declined to name the private hospital that treated him.

O’Dell is not alone in questioning the seemingly arbitrary pricing by private hospitals. With Bank Negara Malaysia’s (BNM) mandate requiring a minimum 5 per cent copayment for new health insurance products, concerns have emerged about unregulated medical bills.

Some argue that patients with insurance can end up paying 100 per cent more than those who pay out-of-pocket (OOP).

On this, O’Dell recounted another troubling incident. “I mean this really happened to me. I walked to my ENT specialist, and the first thing the nurse asked me was, ‘Do you have an insurance policy?’ and I said, ‘Why do you need to know that?’ And she said, ‘Because we need to know how to bill your insurer’.”

This is not an uncommon situation. Private hospitals often check if a patient has insurance during registration. However, this practice has raised concerns that hospitals might be inflating costs for insured patients while offering better (cheaper) deals to those paying OOP.

“I’m not really sure whether hospitals formally charge less for uninsured patients or whether uninsured patients are just in a better position to bargain,” O’Dell said.

“But what I do know is that, according to a doctor, if he has an uninsured patient who is paying out-of-pocket, there will be a lot more due care with what diagnostics or drugs he may order because he knows the patient is paying for it out of their pocket.

“But if the patient has insurance, it doesn’t come into play. The doctor might order whatever he thinks is warranted, sometimes unnecessary, but the sky’s the limit,” O’Dell added. “I think it’s very problematic if hospitals are using dual pricing systems.”

Apart from arbitrary “a la carte” pricing, O’Dell also pointed to potential fraud. He shared an incident where a hand specialist suggested administering a more expensive, non-covered therapy, but billing the life insurance expert’s insurance multiple-fold for a different covered treatment instead.

“Some years ago, I went to a hand specialist to get treatment for arthritis in my thumbs. He said, ‘I want to give you protein-rich plasma, which is a new treatment, but your insurance won’t cover it. So I’m going to bill your insurance for hyaluronic acid and charge them 10 times as much, then give you the plasma for free.’

“I told him, ‘Never mind, just bill me for the right amount. I’ll pay with my credit card and sort it out with the insurance company.’

“I honestly believe that the doctor didn’t even think he was doing anything wrong. I thought he probably thought he was helping, and this is also part of the problem.”

O’Dell said insurance agents can also complicate claims processes, sometimes pressuring doctors to write reports in a way that ensures insurance approval, further contributing to a system prone to misuse and inflated costs.

O’Dell claimed there’s also a lack of serious cost containment efforts in private hospitals. He said effective cost containment would involve dedicated departments, resources, processes, analysis, and visible results leading to lower costs.

“There’s no evidence of serious cost containment. By evidence, I mean you would see a dedicated cost containment department with resources, personnel, processes, and clear results leading to lower costs over time.

“To my knowledge, no hospital has such a department because it runs contrary to the biggest problem that private insurance and a private provider have is there is an economic conflict, right?

“The private provider wants to make as much profit as possible. The private insurer wants to make a profit, but is looking after a pool of money on behalf of the policyholder, right? And they all have different agendas.”

O’Dell strongly disagreed with Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia (APHM) president Dr Kuljit Singh’s assertion that private hospital bills cannot be regulated.

“I disagree 100 per cent,” O’Dell said. He advocates for using Diagnostic Related Groups (DRG) to regulate billing. DRG involves paying a fixed amount based on the complexity of the case, rather than itemising each charge. Hospitals would receive a set amount (e.g., RM21,000) and manage their resources within that budget.

“This is quite commonly the way public systems budget and allocate money to their hospitals for their procedures. It’s not as common in private settings because the private hospitals do not want this. They will make more profit by having these line item bills,” O’Dell said.

The LIAM CEO believes that if the Ministry of Health (MOH) mandates the use of DRGs, it could enforce regulations similar to those for doctors’ fees.

Under Schedule 7 of the Private Healthcare Facilities and Services Act (PHFSA) 1998, private clinic GPs and dentists’ consultation fees are capped at RM10 to RM35, and RM25 to RM250 respectively. Under Schedule 13, private hospital specialists’ consultation fees are legislated at a rate of RM80 to RM235.

O’Dell said DRGs can be adjusted by factors like geography and hospital capability. Similar approaches have been used in past public-private collaborations, such as during the Covid-19 pandemic.

“This happened during Covid, when they used the term ‘decanting,’ which is a bit unusual. They moved patients from public hospitals to private hospitals to free up beds in the public system, and then negotiated a fee for those procedures with the private hospitals. That’s essentially a form of DRG, or it is a DRG. So I believe it can happen. If there’s a will to make it happen, it can be done.”

https://codeblue.galencentre.org/2024/08/28...ZlqiIlcnqLdizFA
*
how to fix this mess then?

TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:47 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Aug 29 2024, 11:40 AM)
Do you understand medical insurance?
Most med insurance have limits of coverage.
If they claim 20k instead of the 8k form your insurance, you lose 12k from your covered amount.
*
Again I ask you, how is it insurance fault? The cost is only 8K and they need to pay 20K. It will hit their claims profile and reduce their profits. Claims is the biggest costs to insurance companies.
lopo90
post Aug 29 2024, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
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Yeap. And it ain't gonna stop anytime soon


xxMusica
post Aug 29 2024, 10:49 AM

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OOP cheaper? Hospital happily admit you and charge insurance? No way. I got bad fever, vomiting, muscle pain, joint pain etc. went to ED gleneagles at 2AM Sunday, after 1 h, they semt me home. had to pay rm1.8k just for that. I mean, if I want MC i will go during working day. My tests also indicates AKI but they just ignore. Went to mamak buy coconut water and some other isotonic drinks and treat myself. Pay insurance for years, but want to use for first time also denied. F*** prubsn
h@ksam
post Aug 29 2024, 10:49 AM

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servicing humans now like servicing cars

the "workshops" overclaim from insurance.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(lopo90 @ Aug 29 2024, 11:48 AM)
Yeap. And it ain't gonna stop anytime soon
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Then it’s karma to people because they buy insurance?
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 10:49 AM

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Hmm he should try going to singapore

So coincidentally I just saw a dr there, for a simple outpatient procedure charges are more than 6k sgd. In malaysia, same procedure costs 2k . RINGGIT.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(xxMusica @ Aug 29 2024, 11:49 AM)
OOP cheaper? Hospital happily admit you and charge insurance? No way. I got bad fever, vomiting, muscle pain, joint pain etc. went to ED gleneagles at 2AM Sunday, after 1 h, they semt me home. had to pay rm1.8k just for that. I mean, if I want MC i will go during working day. My tests also indicates AKI but they just ignore. Went to mamak buy coconut water and some other isotonic drinks and treat myself. Pay insurance for years, but want to use for first time also denied. F*** prubsn
*
Well, in this case they are right. You managed to cure yourself and does not warrant hospitalisation. LOL
h@ksam
post Aug 29 2024, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(viktorherald @ Aug 29 2024, 10:37 AM)
denggi ward is warranted in some cases... Some ppl too lethargic until need to IV
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Dengue admission is RM12000.00 at Colombia
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post Aug 29 2024, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:49 AM)
Then it’s karma to people because they buy insurance?
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No comment
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 10:52 AM

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If people make noise about OOP paying less, and hoping that insuranc3 patient can pay less also.

Sorry I think they're mistaken, more like OOP will now have to pay just ad much as insured patients.

As you can see the bulk of charges go to the hospital not the doctor performing the surgery
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(Knnbuccb @ Aug 29 2024, 11:52 AM)
If people make noise about OOP paying less, and hoping that insuranc3 patient can pay less also.

Sorry  I think they're mistaken, more like OOP will now have to pay just ad much as insured patients.

As you can see the bulk of charges go to the hospital not the doctor performing the surgery
*
This is quite true as the doctor fees are clearly itemised in the bill
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QUOTE(Minolta @ Aug 29 2024, 10:39 AM)
You obviously dont know how it works. If got insurance (even for outpatient coverage), need to apply for GL BEFORE seeing. This process can take 1-2 hours. If lets say during application got issue (limit inadequate, policy expired etc), then they will let the customer know if want to proceed to self pay. If GL issued, then the final bill will go direct to insurance. Customer pays nothing.

If no insurance, then no need take trouble apply for anything. Final bill goes straight to customer and he pays before leaving.

Hence the nurse will always ask if got insurance or not during registration. Not because the nurse will put different level of charges if got insurance.
*
Are you sure? Personal experiences: for endoscopy, pay myself vs claim insurance and the expected amounts would be very different.

prophetjul
post Aug 29 2024, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:47 AM)
Again I ask you, how is it insurance fault? The cost is only 8K and they need to pay 20K. It will hit their claims profile and reduce their profits. Claims is the biggest costs to insurance companies.
*
Did i say its insurance fault? laugh.gif
zerorating
post Aug 29 2024, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(xxMusica @ Aug 29 2024, 10:49 AM)
OOP cheaper? Hospital happily admit you and charge insurance? No way. I got bad fever, vomiting, muscle pain, joint pain etc. went to ED gleneagles at 2AM Sunday, after 1 h, they semt me home. had to pay rm1.8k just for that. I mean, if I want MC i will go during working day. My tests also indicates AKI but they just ignore. Went to mamak buy coconut water and some other isotonic drinks and treat myself. Pay insurance for years, but want to use for first time also denied. F*** prubsn
*
why they discharged you?
scorgio
post Aug 29 2024, 10:59 AM

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Ever since the insurance industry succeeded in striking fear in the minds of public, the health insurance segment took off & healthcare bill start to skyrocket.
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QUOTE(zerorating @ Aug 29 2024, 11:55 AM)
why they discharged you?
*
You see he managed to cure himself which means that the hospital was right in not hospitalising him. This is probably one of the reasons why hospital costs in increasing as a lot of people just want to be hospitalised leading to rising cost. That’s why insurance companies today are really strict about hospitalisation.
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post Aug 29 2024, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:45 AM)
GL is issued for hospitalisation lah. In this case he’s going to see specialist only not getting hospitalised. The nurse is asking whether you have insurance in this case like how you claim your company insurance lah. You go see GP also the same. When you say you are claiming, the bill will be higher than paying cash.
*
Thats why i say u dont know how it works.

Hes talking about outpatient insurance lah. Yes, there is such a thing.
lotussgot
post Aug 29 2024, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:31 AM)
They are already in talks and the government is advocating it but the private hospitals seems to take a stand that their pricing can’t be regulated.

KKM can’t do much as it’s free market and it’s different from the refunds.
*
Private hospital got their licence from Pasturd or Madani Gomen ?


KKM got stake in Private hospital ?


hello MACC
zerorating
post Aug 29 2024, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:59 AM)
You see he managed to cure himself which means that the hospital was right in not hospitalising him. This is probably one of the reasons why hospital costs in increasing as a lot of people just want to be hospitalised leading to rising cost. That’s why insurance companies today are really strict about hospitalisation.
*
more like insurance company dont want the patient to get hospitilized. same thing happened to me, neurological issue but say can be done in outpatient manner. only rejected after 4 farking hours.

sometime i think what kind of situation warranted for hospitilazation? you need to pengsan first,temp goes above 40c, blood pressure goes 200, heart rate through the roof baru can hospitilize issit.

This post has been edited by zerorating: Aug 29 2024, 11:05 AM
acbc
post Aug 29 2024, 11:05 AM

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Private hospitals are businesses not charities.

If too expensive, there are alternatives but only need to wait longer.

It is like a premium limousine service vs Grab.
Minolta
post Aug 29 2024, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ Aug 29 2024, 10:54 AM)
Are you sure? Personal experiences: for endoscopy, pay myself vs claim insurance and the expected amounts would be very different.
*
I am replying in the context of why nurse ask for insurance or not during his outpatient consult with a specialist.

To apply for GL. That is standard.
Everytime i see my gastroenterologist, i have to get a GL. Go earlier, register, apply GL then get breakfast while waiting. Once GL approved, i can see. If my limit burst, i will wait till next year’s outpatient limit refresh, then see.
xxMusica
post Aug 29 2024, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:51 AM)
Well, in this case they are right. You managed to cure yourself and does not warrant hospitalisation. LOL
*
I said treat myself. I took that drinks cause thats what people said help with dehydration, and it does not cure me instantly. It took two weeks for most of the symptoms to disappear. I lost almost 10 kgs from that illness, even my coworkers noticed it, obviously they will cause I can’t even sound properly. If got admitted, i will get iv abx and iv hydration, so it should help me getting better faster. Anyway, I complained and switched to KPJ. Hope others policy holder don’t experience like i do.
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Aug 29 2024, 12:03 PM)
more like insurance company dont want the patient to get hospitilized. same thing happened to me, neurological issue but say can be done in outpatient manner. only rejected after 4 farking hours.

sometime i think what kind of situation warranted for hospitilazation? you need to pengsan first,temp goes above 40c, blood pressure goes 200, heart rate through the roof baru can hospitilize issit.
*
Well, they have in-house doctors to determine whether hospitalisation is necessary or not. Today, they have gotten very strict. My wife do minor surgery in the morning, they also won’t allow hospitalised and ask you to go home rest yourself.

Neurological issue I don’t think they will hospitalise unless it’s life threatening or you’re incapacitated. If you’re able to walk, talk and do things yourself, they will deem you not necessary hospitalised.
Gentleman_League
post Aug 29 2024, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 09:16 AM)
both industries colluding with each other... leaving patients with increasing insurance premium every year

both unethical, unprofessional, and money driven. PUI!
*
but still we gonna buy, or else its gonna burn our pockets
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(Gentleman_League @ Aug 29 2024, 12:14 PM)
but still we gonna buy, or else its gonna burn our pockets
*
That’s why insurance companies are voicing out about the rising medical costs. They know that it will hit their profits as it’s not sustainable in the long run. They got no choice but to reprice but it will lead to them losing customers.
zerorating
post Aug 29 2024, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 11:13 AM)
Well, they have in-house doctors to determine whether hospitalisation is necessary or not. Today, they have gotten very strict. My wife do minor surgery in the morning, they also won’t allow hospitalised and ask you to go home rest yourself.

Neurological issue I don’t think they will hospitalise unless it’s life threatening or you’re incapacitated. If you’re able to walk, talk and do things yourself, they will deem you not necessary hospitalised.
*
well it was that hospital neuroligist who suggested for hospitalization as they want to carry more tests (full scan mri, lumbar puncture,eeg, ncs), but oh well kena rejected. whatever la got recovered without treatment.
when i sembang with gomen psychiatric, she said i probably have meningitis, but anyway its recovered, so she wont tendang the case back to neurologist.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(zerorating @ Aug 29 2024, 12:27 PM)
well it was that hospital neuroligist who suggested for hospitalization as they want to carry more tests (full scan mri, lumbar puncture,eeg, ncs), but oh well kena rejected. whatever la got recovered without treatment.
when i sembang with gomen psychiatric, she said i probably have meningitis, but anyway its recovered, so she wont tendang the case back to neurologist.
*
This is the issue loh. You see the neurologist want to do all sort of test but to insurance companies, there must be justification.

Doing all sorts of tests which might not be necessary are one of the reasons why medical bills become so expensive.

Ask yourself honestly. If it’s your own money, will you be asking whether all the tests necessary?

This post has been edited by 30624770: Aug 29 2024, 11:32 AM
sonic_cd
post Aug 29 2024, 11:35 AM

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that would explain why the cashier at the payment counter in the hospital asking whether self pay or insurance, letter of gurantee ... sweat.gif
kenuism
post Aug 29 2024, 11:38 AM

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I'm stunned that he's stunned
halglory
post Aug 29 2024, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 29 2024, 09:11 AM)
Its the time to terminate and boycott insurance service.
*
go for it dude, don't go begging for insurance to cover you when you got pre-existing conditions or accident
go for gov hospital? can, the public healthcare system is already overcrowded because of rm1 initiative, if you got terminal disease the best they can do is to provide you palliative care, not recovery.
zerorating
post Aug 29 2024, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 11:31 AM)
This is the issue loh. You see the neurologist want to do all sort of test but to insurance companies, there must be justification.

Doing all sorts of tests which might not be necessary are one of the reasons why medical bills become so expensive.

Ask yourself honestly. If it’s your own money, will you be asking whether all the tests necessary?
*
so instead of issuing low value guarantee letter, they just throw the patient under the bus. sure sure.
anyway paham already permainan insurans kompeni, want patient to pay first for the expensive test first, if found something baru cari balik insurans kompeni (maybe cant claim back test with normal result).

joking aside i went gomen hospital via ED for some case, the same day refer to internal med, order thousand dollar of tests. thanks taxpayers lol.

This post has been edited by zerorating: Aug 29 2024, 11:41 AM
Enigmatic
post Aug 29 2024, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 11:31 AM)
This is the issue loh. You see the neurologist want to do all sort of test but to insurance companies, there must be justification.

Doing all sorts of tests which might not be necessary are one of the reasons why medical bills become so expensive.

Ask yourself honestly. If it’s your own money, will you be asking whether all the tests necessary?
*
Dropping by just to say you have the most sensible takes on this thread.

The rest... Hah.
DM52
post Aug 29 2024, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(netflix2019 @ Aug 29 2024, 10:21 AM)
adenoid ablation and tonsil removal. 2 night in hospital.

RM16000
*
What year is this?. I do the exactly same things. lol. u must be osa patient right?. My bill is way lower than u, thats why really keen to know ur operation year.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(kenuism @ Aug 29 2024, 12:38 PM)
I'm stunned that he's stunned
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You understand why he’s talking about this or not?
xeNOS
post Aug 29 2024, 11:49 AM

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Private hospitals really do have their KPIs for doctors (e.g. how many operations done, MRI referered etc.) which is really something that should not be practiced in the first place. Some independent body shld have a look into this before the whole healthcare industry turns into a greater mess
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post Aug 29 2024, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2024, 08:16 AM)
both industries colluding with each other... leaving patients with increasing insurance premium every year

both unethical, unprofessional, and money driven. PUI!
*
And they ALWAYS come with heaps of fine prints ranting.gif
sportivo
post Aug 29 2024, 12:06 PM

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Businessmen BODs cum accountants always find loopholes to maximise profits
Legit way uses by private healthcare centre to scam your hard-earned medical care insurance.

This post has been edited by sportivo: Aug 29 2024, 12:07 PM
emburrar
post Aug 29 2024, 12:31 PM

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Shocked pikachu jpg
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post Aug 29 2024, 12:33 PM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Aug 29 2024, 08:25 AM)

What was he doing during those decades of serving his clients? Takkan all sihat walafiat until he no chance/ never encountered itemized hospital bill before?
*
You barking up the wrong tree. He as CEO doesn't serve the "clients". He serves the board of directors.
Irzani
post Aug 29 2024, 12:34 PM

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The Insurance CEO just know this? Where is he previously? Sky?
cursetheroad01
post Aug 29 2024, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:14 AM)
How is insurance industry causing hospitals to overcharge?

Claims affects their profits. No insurance companies will like to settle expensive claims.
*
So are they going to deny medical card claims that is clearly covered by the policy just because "naaaaah your doctor is overcharging"?
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QUOTE(Irzani @ Aug 29 2024, 01:34 PM)
The Insurance CEO just know this? Where is he previously? Sky?
*
He’s bringing this up because it’s getting out of hand.

For a insurance industry guy to voice out, you know it’s seriously something wrong.
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post Aug 29 2024, 12:39 PM

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Ini semua mainan hospital.saja. Capitalist industry. Sapa mau untung kecik sapa mau kerja gaji sikit.
cursetheroad01
post Aug 29 2024, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(halglory @ Aug 29 2024, 11:38 AM)
go for it dude, don't go begging for insurance to cover you when you got pre-existing conditions or accident
go for gov hospital? can, the public healthcare system is already overcrowded because of rm1 initiative, if you got terminal disease the best they can do is to provide you palliative care, not recovery.
*
And that is why we have to lobby for gomen to increase our healthcare budget so it is more universal aka all people regardless of income could get treatment.

But naaaah
Better to pay insurance and support private hospital that will prioritise profit.
Besides, mana boleh doktor gaji besar tapi tak buat kerja.
Hint: They are understaffed and we all know gomen won't allocate money for more hires but instead spend it on useless departments like jais and shit, and we all okay with it.

This post has been edited by cursetheroad01: Aug 29 2024, 12:42 PM
cubiclecarbonate
post Aug 29 2024, 12:41 PM

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It's a business, not health care
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Aug 29 2024, 01:41 PM)
And that is why we have to lobby for gomen to increase our healthcare expenditure so it is more universal aka all people regardless of income could get treatment.

But naaaah
Better to pay insurance and support private hospital that will prioritise profit.
Besides, mana boleh doktor gaji besar tapi tak buat kerja.
Hint: They are understaffed and we all know gomen won't allocate money for more hires but instead spend it on useless departments like jais and shit, and we all okay with.
*
How much higher you want government to increase healthcare expenditure?

RM1 still not enough?


delon85
post Aug 29 2024, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(moiskyrie @ Aug 29 2024, 08:38 AM)
Like my relative that work in private hospital....
She keep complaint...
The patient already no hope already,
Better send the patient home to live last few moment with family...
But the hospital management and doctor keep don't want and keep do unnecessary operation,  medication,  etc just so can utilise 100% patient insurance which at 1~2 million.....
*
This should be made illegal. But hard to pass law.
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post Aug 29 2024, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(Minolta @ Aug 29 2024, 11:06 AM)
I am replying in the context of why nurse ask for insurance or not during his outpatient consult with a specialist.

To apply for GL. That is standard.
Everytime i see my gastroenterologist, i have to get a GL. Go earlier, register, apply GL then get breakfast while waiting. Once GL approved, i can see. If my limit burst, i will wait till next year’s outpatient limit refresh, then see.
*
If you answer no, you will incur lower bill. If you answer yes, you will incur higher bill. It's related.

In addition to asking you in order to get the GL, you will also get extra bill.
anakkk
post Aug 29 2024, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(thesoothsayer @ Aug 29 2024, 08:59 AM)
Must be serious. Mine was hospitalized for 3 days each. Cost 4.7k each.

Doctor:900
Nursing: 600
Room: 400

Rest was facilities, tests, equipment, medicine, etc.
*
nothing serious, just influenza, I think the doc just took a ride on us. keep do blood test, tell me this and that, blood test result no good kind of thing, we need to chase his tail to ask for discharge.
wong_86
post Aug 29 2024, 01:09 PM

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private hospital is all about profit, u know KPJ johor got huge renovation since last year, add more beds, luxury like 5 stars hotel, new building block name, new logo and theme, attract more customer (patients), new machine worth millions in Oncology

This post has been edited by wong_86: Aug 29 2024, 01:15 PM
iGamer
post Aug 29 2024, 01:11 PM

Toxic ktards probably losers irl
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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
Main culprit still greedy private hospitals lah, u think insurance company enjoy higher bills which also burden their insurance policy profitability?
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 01:34 PM

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if your car spoil also u will spend few k at bawah pokok shop if go specialist can be five figures

yet own body cant spend so much, expecting to go to top hospital and spend less than bawah pokok price.


apache79
post Aug 29 2024, 01:35 PM

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dah lama keje jadi ceo baru dia perasan ke?
patienceGNR
post Aug 29 2024, 01:38 PM

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So him being a CEO (or ex) of insurer companies, he doesn't know all these? Damn.
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 12:43 PM)
How much higher you want government to increase healthcare expenditure?

RM1 still not enough?
*
rm1 but system is overly burdened and running on fumes
dont even have money for more to be hired.
so many burnout etc, by the time it happens it will be difficult to salvage unless import from cheaper countries. most marehsian cant even speak proper english, so i guess only hiring from indonesia makes sense.

This post has been edited by Knnbuccb: Aug 29 2024, 01:41 PM
netflix2019
post Aug 29 2024, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(DM52 @ Aug 29 2024, 11:42 AM)
What year is this?. I do the exactly same things. lol. u must be osa patient right?. My bill is way lower than u, thats why really keen to know ur operation year.
*
2024. lol

Yours insurance also?

I think if ownself pay it should not be more than 12k
LuckyBai
post Aug 29 2024, 01:44 PM

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What does he do at Liam??
BL98
post Aug 29 2024, 01:44 PM

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Otherwise how doctors earn 500k per month?
SUSahter
post Aug 29 2024, 01:45 PM

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He's not covered by insurance? Kek
netmatrix
post Aug 29 2024, 01:47 PM

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Dear Mark. In your 44 years as super knowledgeable in Insurance, you were also a part of the problem. So don't pretend things like this is very surprising and absurd.

Since you are retired and not involved in anything about insurance, obviously you can talk shit about it. Do not deny you are involved in part of it. Insurance cost keep getting higher and coverage keeps getting lesser. Claims paperwork is very difficult, very hassle and riddled with so much red tape and T&C that people question why need insurance at all?

Shut up and wait till you need to answer for those decisions.
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(BL98 @ Aug 29 2024, 01:44 PM)
Otherwise how doctors earn 500k per month?
*
i tot recently viral doctor earn 70k

500k per month very common?

This post has been edited by Knnbuccb: Aug 29 2024, 01:54 PM
mick84
post Aug 29 2024, 01:57 PM

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We call it Medical tourism for a reason.
Relatively still cheap for foreigners.
Gratitude2022
post Aug 29 2024, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(moiskyrie @ Aug 29 2024, 08:20 AM)
Hahahaha....
Last week just receive email say my premium gonna increase.....
Reach more that 10 percent of my salary liao....
Plan to just chop off nia...
Anything happen just end the life nia..
*
Don't la boss. Ayam pray that boss long life with good health.
kamfoo
post Aug 29 2024, 02:07 PM

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msia medical fee one of lowest in the world
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(Knnbuccb @ Aug 29 2024, 02:41 PM)
rm1 but system is overly burdened and running on fumes
dont even have money for more to be hired.
so many burnout etc, by the time it happens it will be difficult to salvage unless import from cheaper countries. most marehsian cant even speak proper english, so i guess only hiring from indonesia makes sense.
*
What will you think happens if private medical increase some more and people cannot afford insurance?


Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 02:15 PM)
What will you think happens if private medical increase some more and people cannot afford insurance?
*
all flood kkm

then i eat popcorn cool2.gif
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(kamfoo @ Aug 29 2024, 02:07 PM)
msia medical fee one of lowest in the world
*
marehsian comparing rm1 healthcare with private healthcare

then surprise pikachu..
meanwhile paying for house renovation and car modification is ok
teehk_tee
post Aug 29 2024, 02:18 PM

ไม่เป็นไร
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CEO
> choose suite 2.8k a night
> surprise pikachu 18k bill
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(teehk_tee @ Aug 29 2024, 02:18 PM)
CEO
> choose suite 2.8k a night
> surprise pikachu 18k bill
*
topkekkkk the suite 1 night is same as doctor's fees
btw usually the doctors fees include seeing the patient in the ward, surgery, and the anaesthetist fees?

then public : doctors very greedy, 1 operation 18k
tifosi
post Aug 29 2024, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(Rorschach85 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:12 AM)
Insurance CEO surpsied pikachu face? lol
*
I surpsied pikachu that he surpsied pikachu. Insurance companies are one of the biggest scammers of all time.
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post Aug 29 2024, 02:21 PM

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Haha
He’s just salty that his insurance company had to payout more.
Next time he will make sure that other people will have to copay such private hospitals so his insurance company can pay out less and pay him a bigger bonus.
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post Aug 29 2024, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(dickybird @ Aug 29 2024, 02:21 PM)
Haha
He’s just salty that his insurance company had to payout more.
Next time he will make sure that other people will have to copay such private hospitals so his insurance company can pay out less and pay him a bigger bonus.
*
He will make sure they will reimburse hospital less while saying cost are rising hence increasing premium and asking patients to co-pay.

Killing 3 birds with a stone.
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post Aug 29 2024, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(cursetheroad01 @ Aug 29 2024, 12:41 PM)
And that is why we have to lobby for gomen to increase our healthcare budget so it is more universal aka all people regardless of income could get treatment.

But naaaah
Better to pay insurance and support private hospital that will prioritise profit.
Besides, mana boleh doktor gaji besar tapi tak buat kerja.
Hint: They are understaffed and we all know gomen won't allocate money for more hires but instead spend it on useless departments like jais and shit, and we all okay with it.
*
if you look at the whole medical industry as a whole, if there's no insurance companies, the hospitals are just gonna do the same thing, if they know you rich, they gonna rob you blind and hold your health ransom for everything you own.

for the situation in gomen hospitals is sad but there's nothing to do, i know quite a few doctors who do lokum to make ends meet but they always say one thing, when they get an opportunity to go private, they'll definitely go without hesitation
TS30624770
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QUOTE(netmatrix @ Aug 29 2024, 02:47 PM)
Dear Mark. In your 44 years as super knowledgeable in Insurance, you were also a part of the problem. So don't pretend things like this is very surprising and absurd.

Since you are retired and not involved in anything about insurance, obviously you can talk shit about it. Do not deny you are involved in part of it. Insurance cost keep getting higher and coverage keeps getting lesser. Claims paperwork is very difficult, very hassle and riddled with so much red tape and T&C that people question why need insurance at all?

Shut up and wait till you need to answer for those decisions.
*
He’s LiAM CEO and LIAM is an association consists of all life insurance companies in Malaysia. So he’s not retired.

Why insurance cost keep getting higher? Main culprit is back to rising medical costs.

Why coverage is getting lower? This is not true as you can get all sorts of coverage provided you pay for it. Why is it happening? Again it’s back to rising medical cost. Ask yourself how much it cost you doing a minor surgery 10 years ago compared to today.

Claims difficult and red tape. Again it’s back to private hospitals. A few years back, everyone easily masuk hospital and stay there like 5 star hotel for minor issues only. The hospitals happily accept such abuses and misuse of insurance leading to many insurance companies facing high claims. As a result, insurance companies today are very stringent when it comes to claims but we always hear only stories of people’s claims being rejected but we hardly hear any successful claims. However, if you see the financial statements of insurance companies, you can see that they spend millions paying out claims.

From what I heard, insurance companies are lobbying for private hospitals costs to be regulated. What doctors charge is already regulated and it’s all in the bill. However, the big differences are when you do certain procedures. Take MRI for example, the cost difference is huge between hospitals. You go do MRI in Prince Court and UMSC and see how much they cost.
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QUOTE(tifosi @ Aug 29 2024, 03:25 PM)
He will make sure they will reimburse hospital less while saying cost are rising hence increasing premium and asking patients to co-pay.

Killing 3 birds with a stone.
*
You do know that insurance companies are regulated by BNM, right? You think they can price whatever they want?
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(dickybird @ Aug 29 2024, 03:21 PM)
Haha
He’s just salty that his insurance company had to payout more.
Next time he will make sure that other people will have to copay such private hospitals so his insurance company can pay out less and pay him a bigger bonus.
*
He’s LIAM president lah. Not an insurance company but the association of life insurance companies in Malaysia
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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 02:33 PM)
He’s LIAM president lah. Not an insurance company but the association of life insurance companies in Malaysia
*
He was in insurance. And a CEO. He dunno or pretend dunno.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(dickybird @ Aug 29 2024, 03:41 PM)
He was in insurance. And a CEO. He dunno or pretend dunno.
*
You think he don’t know. The whole article is to make people aware about what is the problem. The things he raised up is exactly what insurance companies and consumers are facing.


BL98
post Aug 29 2024, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(Knnbuccb @ Aug 29 2024, 01:54 PM)
i tot recently viral doctor earn 70k

500k per month very common?
*
That doctor is physician, non-surgical, so only 70k

If surgeon, then 500k.

MrmoneyTV got interview an ENT surgeon recently.
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(BL98 @ Aug 29 2024, 02:57 PM)
That doctor is physician, non-surgical, so only 70k

If surgeon, then 500k.

MrmoneyTV got interview an ENT surgeon recently.
*
lol recently is like 18hours ago
just searched
zhou.xingxing
post Aug 29 2024, 03:03 PM

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why msia or ktards no support him. the points he raised is not wrong.. why hosp wan ask insurance coverage first and then bill based on insurance limits
MishimaZ
post Aug 29 2024, 03:04 PM

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Act surprised then claim to all luckily his insurance company covers him.

What a way to further promote and bastardize medicine pricing.
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(zhou.xingxing @ Aug 29 2024, 03:03 PM)
why msia or ktards no support him. the points he raised is not wrong.. why hosp wan ask insurance coverage first and then bill based on insurance limits
*
what most people think will happen:
yayy, now all insurance patients also will be charged lower , equal as self paying patients..

what will most likely happen if things get pushed further:
oh no, now self paying patients also have to pay just as much as insurance patients.
halglory
post Aug 29 2024, 03:22 PM

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in the end, salah capitalism, never ending story, medical cost increase because the cost of hiring healthcare staff increase, because cost of living increase, because raw material increase, etc
TS30624770
post Aug 29 2024, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(Knnbuccb @ Aug 29 2024, 04:11 PM)
what most people think will happen:
yayy, now all insurance patients also will be charged lower , equal as self paying patients..

what will most likely happen if things get pushed further:
oh no, now self paying patients also have to pay just as much as insurance patients.
*
This is to put pressure to insurance companies to have a more standard pricing which the government also want them to do.

Like I say before,, you go do MRI in Prince Court and UMSC and compare their cost. Prince Court sure charge a few thousand higher but the machines and procedures are the same. I know because I went to both before. The only difference is Prince Court got better service as their nurses really make sure you’re comfortable and you get to hear classical music.
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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 03:37 PM)
This is to put pressure to insurance companies to have a more standard pricing which the government also want them to do.

Like I say before,, you go do MRI in Prince Court and UMSC and compare their cost. Prince Court sure charge a few thousand higher but the machines and procedures are the same. I know because I went to both before. The only difference is Prince Court got better service as their nurses really make sure you’re comfortable and you get to hear classical music.
*
huh? not hospital need to have standard pricing meh?
Hardcore Leveling Warrior
post Aug 29 2024, 03:42 PM

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buat-buat terkejut pulak.

padahal alasan nak naikkan premium, repricing dll.

supaya insuran agen boleh pergi bercuti kat luar negara la tu.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(halglory @ Aug 29 2024, 04:40 PM)
huh? not hospital need to have standard pricing meh?
*
Nope. Only certain things like doctors fees are standard. The other stuff are all not regulated. That’s why he bring this up in the article.

O’Dell strongly disagreed with Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia (APHM) president Dr Kuljit Singh’s assertion that private hospital bills cannot be regulated.
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QUOTE(Hardcore Leveling Warrior @ Aug 29 2024, 04:42 PM)
buat-buat terkejut pulak.

padahal alasan nak naikkan premium, repricing dll.

supaya insuran agen boleh pergi bercuti kat luar negara la tu.
*
Do you think their pricing and repricing are not regulated?

You tak tau semua insurance companies under BNM kah?
Ivan113
post Aug 29 2024, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(Computer^freak @ Aug 29 2024, 08:10 AM)
Karma. The insurance industry is one of the causes of why private health practitioners are overcharging.
*
as much as I dislike insurance industry and 100% think insurance companies are scams, this is really the egg and chicken problem. Can only blame gov in the end.
BuKeYi
post Aug 29 2024, 04:05 PM

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Normal for private hospital

Last time for my newborn baby, many unnecessary items which they included and didn't ask beforehand.

Then got one time need masuk emergency due to some illness, included alot of unnecessary items as well. But since claim insurance, so didn't bother it, stayed for 4days without any operation = RM15k+
Got CT scan la, I know it is unnecessary because I ask at the counter one by one what it is. At some point they also cant explain on certain items.
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QUOTE(BuKeYi @ Aug 29 2024, 05:05 PM)
Normal for private hospital

Last time for my newborn baby, many unnecessary items which they included and didn't ask beforehand.

Then got one time need masuk emergency due to some illness, included alot of unnecessary items as well. But since claim insurance, so didn't bother it, stayed for 4days without any operation = RM15k+
Got CT scan la, I know it is unnecessary because I ask at the counter one by one what it is. At some point they also cant explain on certain items.
*
That is why it’s getting more and more expensive and insurance companies had to reprice.

Most of us don’t bother as it’s covered by insurance but in the long run they will increase premium
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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 03:46 PM)
Nope. Only certain things like doctors fees are standard. The other stuff are all not regulated. That’s why he bring this up in the article.

O’Dell strongly disagreed with Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia (APHM) president Dr Kuljit Singh’s assertion that private hospital bills cannot be regulated.
*
Insurance prices are regulated whatchu toking about? Under BNM, if you find any issue can complain straight to BNM and the insurance company will be in trouble
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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 08:05 AM)
KUALA LUMPUR, August 28 — Back in May, Mark O’Dell, chief executive of the Life Insurance Association of Malaysia (LIAM), received a 13-page bill amounting to RM18,837.55 for a minor hernia operation he did at a private hospital in Kuala Lumpur.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Just wanted to add this tweet:
QUOTE
If you don't know who Mark is, he's the CEO of Life Insurance Association of Malaysia. His association has all the health insurance companies in it. He's one of the most veteran person in the industry. For him to say he doesn't understand his hospital billing and what his insurance is billed is worrying.

I met Mark last week at briefing and he spoke about his concerns. If an experienced person like him have difficulties going through his bill, how will private hospital patients scrutinise their bills?

LIAM has been asking patients to do their part in asking about what hospitals are charging them for even if their insurance/takaful policy is paying for it. Malaysia's medical inflation is the highest in the region at 12% for 2023. Other countries in ASEAN is only single digits.

When claims for policies go up, so do premiums. Hence BNM's ruling on co-payment policies. It's a way to encourage consumers to take a more active roll in ensuring hospitals don't overcharge.

The next time you get a hospital bill. Ask for it to be explained to you. Be an active consumer and help keep our insurancet/takaful premium inflation low.

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post Aug 29 2024, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(netflix2019 @ Aug 29 2024, 01:43 PM)
2024. lol

Yours insurance also?

I think if ownself pay it should not be more than 12k
*
2018 yo. yes. insurance also. all in operation plus 4 days stay at hospital is rm9600. very cheap yo compared to today. I got very bad obstructive sleep apnea. so specialist ask me to rest for 2 days. but then I got 14 days mc, so 4 days at hospital is okay. lol. been supply by a lot of premium ice cream post operation. very heaven.

yeah, if pay own pocket, definitely will be cheaper by a lot.
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post Aug 29 2024, 05:00 PM

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insulance only know that pricing, must follow
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QUOTE(halglory @ Aug 29 2024, 05:44 PM)
Insurance prices are regulated whatchu toking about? Under BNM, if you find any issue can complain straight to BNM and the insurance company will be in trouble
*
Regulated means they need BNM approval when they reprice. They need to provide justification to BNM. It’s not regulated like there’s a standard pricing
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post Aug 29 2024, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(Justin.Loong @ Aug 29 2024, 04:45 PM)
Just wanted to add this tweet:

*
what's the purpose of asking for the bill when you are already charged for it?

takkan the nurse or doctor ask the patient each time they use a gauze and syringe? the controls should be placed directly on the private hospitals. at least start with price transparency.
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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 29 2024, 03:46 PM)
Nope. Only certain things like doctors fees are standard. The other stuff are all not regulated. That’s why he bring this up in the article.

O’Dell strongly disagreed with Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia (APHM) president Dr Kuljit Singh’s assertion that private hospital bills cannot be regulated.
*
To the orang puteh ni - good luck trying to get the goverment to regulate an industry where GLCs are some of the main players.

toughguy
post Aug 29 2024, 05:50 PM

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According to Robert Kwok book, he said good hearted person cannot do hospital business.
This thread proved it.
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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 29 2024, 05:36 PM)
what's the purpose of asking for the bill when you are already charged for it?

takkan the nurse or doctor ask the patient each time they use a gauze and syringe? the controls should be placed directly on the private hospitals. at least start with price transparency.
*
+9999!!!! nod.gif

Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(BuKeYi @ Aug 29 2024, 04:05 PM)
Normal for private hospital

Last time for my newborn baby, many unnecessary items which they included and didn't ask beforehand.

Then got one time need masuk emergency due to some illness, included alot of unnecessary items as well. But since claim insurance, so didn't bother it, stayed for 4days without any operation = RM15k+
Got CT scan la, I know it is unnecessary because I ask at the counter one by one what it is. At some point they also cant explain on certain items.
*
ct scan for kid?
good luck to ur kid


Minolta
post Aug 29 2024, 06:19 PM

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https://www.moh.gov.sg/cost-financing/hospi...lProcedure=true

For comparison. One sided hernia repair in a private hospital in Singapore with overnight stay (inpatient) cost SGD16,806!

How can similar op in Malaysian hospital with stay in expensive suite costing rm18+K be so shocking?


Singapore MOH data

This post has been edited by Minolta: Aug 29 2024, 06:19 PM
Knnbuccb
post Aug 29 2024, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(Minolta @ Aug 29 2024, 06:19 PM)
https://www.moh.gov.sg/cost-financing/hospi...lProcedure=true

For comparison. One sided hernia repair in a private hospital in Singapore with overnight stay (inpatient) cost SGD16,806!

How can similar op in Malaysian hospital with stay in expensive suite costing rm18+K be so shocking?
Singapore MOH data
*
thats why i always say
msian ppl r in dreamland, keep comparing with rm1 healthcare. keep saying dr celery very high. (lol , GP market now my friend said pay is like rm6k to 10k, might as well become some manyzer is some cinapek company)

my friend just shared with me he went for backside scope in singapore cost 5k+ SGD

in malaysia , even premium hospital like gleneagles charging 2k+ MYR (promotion price )

inb4 dont convert....
bodo, memang didnt convert, if convert u will lausai, its rm20k vs rm2k

This post has been edited by Knnbuccb: Aug 29 2024, 06:31 PM
BuKeYi
post Aug 30 2024, 12:57 AM

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QUOTE(Knnbuccb @ Aug 29 2024, 06:00 PM)
ct scan for kid?
good luck to ur kid
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me la
ieatchickens
post Aug 30 2024, 02:32 AM

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sau pei la hkc glass house

user posted image
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QUOTE(halglory @ Aug 29 2024, 03:22 PM)
in the end, salah capitalism, never ending story, medical cost increase because the cost of hiring healthcare staff increase, because cost of living increase, because raw material increase, etc
*
Main reason is, the doctors need to buy expensive cars la. 🤗
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post Aug 30 2024, 06:23 AM

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when insurance company/agent sweet talk customer to super high package with confusing terms, so to get sweeter commission/earning. no hear complains on the amount they received.

This post has been edited by brkli: Aug 30 2024, 06:23 AM
poooky
post Aug 30 2024, 07:21 AM

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Kek, he asked for regulation out of concern for insurance company profits from needing to pay out less claims. Not because he is thinking of ppls welfare.
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QUOTE(poooky @ Aug 30 2024, 07:21 AM)
Kek, he asked for regulation out of concern for insurance company profits from needing to pay out less claims. Not because he is thinking of ppls welfare.
*
insurance companies also a business, business is all about making profit.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(poooky @ Aug 30 2024, 08:21 AM)
Kek, he asked for regulation out of concern for insurance company profits from needing to pay out less claims. Not because he is thinking of ppls welfare.
*
Chicken and egg lah. If the medical cost are lower, they don’t have justification to reprice as BNM won’t approve it. Lower cost also better for those who don’t have insurance and pay cash.

Its win win for consumers.
loon90
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Welcome to MY
poooky
post Aug 30 2024, 08:17 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 30 2024, 08:01 AM)
Chicken and egg lah. If the medical cost are lower, they don’t have justification to reprice as BNM won’t approve it. Lower cost also better for those who don’t have insurance and pay cash.

Its win win for consumers.
*
Except ppl who do t have insurance will go to public hospital anyway.

Private hospital has been gouging consumers for decades. As CEO of insurance co, he is well aware of the practice. To suddenly come out socmed acting all surprised and asking for more regulation is disingenuous. If private citizen unker can feel but CEO of insurance? Kek
Ayambetul
post Aug 30 2024, 08:31 AM

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Ask your insurance audit team.
TS30624770
post Aug 30 2024, 08:51 AM

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QUOTE(poooky @ Aug 30 2024, 09:17 AM)
Except ppl who do t have insurance will go to public hospital anyway.

Private hospital has been gouging consumers for decades. As CEO of insurance co, he is well aware of the practice. To suddenly come out socmed acting all surprised and asking for more regulation is disingenuous. If private citizen unker can feel but CEO of insurance? Kek
*
The insurance industry has been voicing this for years. Its not something new and the article was written in a way to shock people and get people's attention to create awareness. Do you think he is actually stunned? LOL!

If medical cost keep getting out of control, premium will be higher too and there will be even more repricing. At the end more people will not be able to afford insurance and where do they go? Government hospital is already packed to the max! Do you think all who go private has insurance?

What he's raising is a real problem. Our medical inflation is now between 12% to 13% and still increasing. Its way higher than our inflation rate.

This post has been edited by 30624770: Aug 30 2024, 08:53 AM
brkli
post Aug 30 2024, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 30 2024, 08:01 AM)
Chicken and egg lah. If the medical cost are lower, they don’t have justification to reprice as BNM won’t approve it. Lower cost also better for those who don’t have insurance and pay cash.

Its win win for consumers.
*
tu lah, when medical cost is low. go and convince ppl to take higher premium with grandmother stories and etc. then when ppl have higher premium and to "fully utilize" the money the "prepaid" when they have illness, private become "creative"...

now come and complain this "creativeness" that they created.
TS30624770
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QUOTE(brkli @ Aug 30 2024, 10:08 AM)
tu lah, when medical cost is low. go and convince ppl to take higher premium with grandmother stories and etc. then when ppl have higher premium and to "fully utilize" the money the "prepaid" when they have illness, private become "creative"...

now come and complain this "creativeness" that they created.
*
I have no idea what you're talking about but the biggest reason insurance premium become higher and higher is due to rising medical cost as claims is the biggest cost to an insurance company
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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 30 2024, 09:13 AM)
I have no idea what you're talking about but the biggest reason insurance premium become higher and higher is due to rising medical cost as claims is the biggest cost to an insurance company
*
ofcourse, tak kan want to tell you that they increase the premium due to lesser profit margin from insurance company end.
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QUOTE(brkli @ Aug 30 2024, 10:31 AM)
ofcourse, tak kan want to tell you that they increase the premium due to lesser profit margin from insurance company end.
*
Of course they will not let their profit margin drop. It will affect their profitability. Insurance are still business and if insurance companies are making losses, you should be even more worried.

Its strange that people like you here see insurance as the villian but dont see the problems he is voicing out as an issue.
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QUOTE(30624770 @ Aug 30 2024, 09:35 AM)
Of course they will not let their profit margin drop. It will affect their profitability. Insurance are still business and if insurance companies are making losses, you should be even more worried.

Its strange that people like you here see insurance as the villian but dont see the problems he is voicing out as an issue.
*
if you are going to say about profitablity, same can be said to private hospital, and similarly you should be even more worried when hospital making loses, unlike hospital, insurance company does not provide healthcare, hospital does.

2 villans does not make 1 saint. both parties have their issue. just because he is voicing out the other party, it does not paint the full picture of increasing premium. they are just cherry picking to suit his narrative, just like your local politkus and businessmen.

so you are saying, when medical cost is low, all premium is cheap? then what agent doing with their existing members?

if tmr there new ruling that private medical cost will be regulated in some way. will the insurance premium be reduce?

This post has been edited by brkli: Aug 30 2024, 02:14 PM
Justin.Loong
post Aug 30 2024, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE
The Association of Private Hospitals Malaysia says hospitals are required by the law to provide detailed bills, FMT reports.
This is after CodeBlue reported that Life Insurance Association of Malaysia CEO Mark O’Dell was shocked to receive a 13-page bill of nearly RM19,000 for a minor hernia operation at a private KL hospital in May.
🧵1
https://freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nati...ospitals-group/

APHM president Dr Kuljit Singh said hospital bills must be itemised as required under the Private Healthcare Facilities and Services Act.
"This is perhaps the only industry where such a high level of detail is provided..as an example, the number of gauzes used."
🧵2
https://codeblue.galencentre.org/2024/08/28...hernia-surgery/

"As a result, the bill contains a lengthy list of items and pages, which is intended to be transparent to the patient and client," he said.
Kuljit also pointed out that the practice of providing lengthy bills has been in existence for many years.
🧵3

tatmeng
post Aug 30 2024, 08:55 PM

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The empire strikes back


https://codeblue.galencentre.org/2024/08/30...lly-controlled/


 

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