Said it before, and already seen the writings on the wall since last year. So I'm not surprised why Sg Bakap happened.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
QUOTE(bigwolf @ Dec 6 2023, 01:01 PM)
Ah well, Anwar's making the same mistake as BN did previously, by pandering to the right wing hardliners hoping to get their support.
Here's some news, you can't out PAS PAS. PAS will always be more PAS than you can be, no matter what. UMNO has been playing r&r for so long and what happened in the end? All those hardliners you breed goes to PAS not UMNO/BN.
1 year in, Anwar should see pandering is obviously not working, and should consider the opposite strategy now: Scale down on the conservatism, separate religion from government, improve our education so that people learns religion is not everything, improve the economy, make more jobs, more jobs n better economy makes rakyat happier and less prone to seek religion to console themselves, go hardline approach and arrest & jail the racial and religious instigators, no matter T20, member of parliament, malays or non malays.
Solution is there and its very simple and straightforward, but the will to do it is another matter. Too bad our politicians have no will to implement long term solutions but only seek immediate populist policies hoping for immediate support. But as we can see, even immediate populist policies are not working now. So how?
Continue to walk down the r&r pandering hoping to get different results? 99% most likely you'll lost it all in next ge coz PAS will always be better at this game.
Or try the other approach? You may or may not survive the next ge but I'd say the chances are much better than the first option. Certainly even if you lose, you'll go down in history revered by ppl as someone who at least tried to do something rather than continuing down the r&r pandering, hoping stupidly for quick fix and support.
We can only see how it goes this remaining 4 years
Well we have about 3 more years before GE16. Will madani govt finally wake up and start realizing pandering and conservatism wont work, and in fact, will only give more support to PN/PAS?
Sometimes I wonder if past leaders like Mahathir (and now Anwar/PH) have no brains or what. They had been trying to be more PAS than PAS since late 80's/ early 90's and it's not working until today and had only made things worse. Just look at past elections history
Since 1990 (8th GE), the number of votes for PAS had been on increasing trend. It's so damn obvious for decades, by trying to be more PAS than PAS and all the pandering and conservatism only gave more votes to PAS. Beats me why they still going this approach. It's like pouring more gasoline at the fire hoping to douse it before it burns larger. Bangang maksimum...
Keep this up- palestine hamas PM, KK mart and all that- and by GE16, well, you can be assured your nons votes would still not vote PN/PAS, but they'll just stay at home at say fukkit, I'm an irrelevant convenient punching bag anyways, so lantak lah korang vote and fight it out yourselves.
This post has been edited by bigwolf: Jul 7 2024, 10:51 PM
Keep this up- palestine hamas PM, KK mart and all that- and by GE16, well, you can be assured your nons votes would still not vote PN/PAS, but they'll just stay at home at say fukkit, I'm an irrelevant convenient punching bag anyways, so lantak lah korang vote and fight it out yourselves.
sad but true
this is not enough, unless it's DAP who lost, nothing much will change, Anwar will still be same numskull that he is
This post has been edited by hamsterdam: Jul 7 2024, 10:28 PM
The easiest group to please is the R&R group.first 4 years go hardline do things that need to be done. Start by shutting down extremist. Then nearing GE, give them candies, they will forget what been done to them.
Final nail in the coffin is when they abolish subsidy for petrol as well. Bang Non will continue to pander to conservatives because he's one. Poor nons. They thought they did something by voting PH.
The easiest group to please is the R&R group.first 4 years go hardline do things that need to be done. Start by shutting down extremist. Then nearing GE, give them candies, they will forget what been done to them.
How to do that when PMX himself panders to extremists?
Lol macai. Instead of focusing on stuff to unite the damn nation. Lets keep division go on as if it will do any difference.
Plus theres no such thing as extremists here when it come to politics. Only shit u keep telling urself because dap failed to hard even when given 2nd chance to prove themselves in the gov.
This post has been edited by SuperGampang: Jul 7 2024, 11:15 PM
More Pas than Pas 404. Madani just showing progressive Islam instead of carrybun way practiced by Pas. PAS. > Religion> all, every solution is praying. Madani> Rakyat must work hard to achieve success.
If non is too idealists, we'll have Sheraton move 2.0. Nons have been teaching PH 1 0 lessons with by elections, end up Bersatu leaving the sinking ships and do a Sheraton move 1.0
More Pas than Pas 404. Madani just showing progressive Islam instead of carrybun way practiced by Pas. PAS. > Religion> all, every solution is praying. Madani> Rakyat must work hard to achieve success.
If non is too idealists, we'll have Sheraton move 2.0. Nons have been teaching PH 1 0 lessons with by elections, end up Bersatu leaving the sinking ships and do a Sheraton move 1.0
the problem is carrybun dont know what is progressive Islam they only know islam pas
Dafuq i care, this country wont change one until i die. Korek money hapi living tak kisah lantak till mati. Next gen non my fucuk business coz am edi mati
More Pas than Pas 404. Madani just showing progressive Islam instead of carrybun way practiced by Pas. PAS. > Religion> all, every solution is praying. Madani> Rakyat must work hard to achieve success.
If non is too idealists, we'll have Sheraton move 2.0. Nons have been teaching PH 1 0 lessons with by elections, end up Bersatu leaving the sinking ships and do a Sheraton move 1.0
not idealist, realistic. Like, why KK Mart allowed to happen and zero control to rein in the extremists? Have you read what they saying in fb and tik tok? Even ZUS buta2 kena just because owners are cina https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5458276
Solution is so easy, just drag some of those crazies in, spend a day or 2 in lokap for questioning, and the rest would get the message don't go full retard. Why didn't madani govt do it?
Yeah , my point still stand. Madani will fall playing a game that umno been playing for 60 years. And macai like u blaming PN as a coping mechanism that ur chosen leaders are actually useless.
Lol macai. Instead of focusing on stuff to unite the damn nation. Lets keep division go on as if it will do any difference.
Plus theres no such thing as extremists here when it come to politics. Only shit u keep telling urself because dap failed to hard even when given 2nd chance to prove themselves in the gov.
Yeah , my point still stand. Madani will fall playing a game that umno been playing for 60 years. And macai like u blaming PN as a coping mechanism that ur chosen leaders are actually useless.
Since you've established that PAS is perpetually growing, here's something that's worthwhile to be pondered first and foremost.
WHY do people turn to religion as time goes on?
IMO it could be a few things: 1. Facing insurmountable obstacles (for coping) Pretty relevant, especially in modern time where people can work but still be in 'relative' poverty. Life used to be simpler, and simpler means harder for people to feel hopeless. Why else would suicide rate goes hand-in-hand with a nation's progress as it becomes more developed?
2. Pursuing a sense of community, solidarity, togetherness, strength. Modern, urban living promotes isolationism (just earn enough money, anything else can be solved if you have enough, no need to befriend your neighbors in case of emergency, no need to know your farmers, fishermen, butchers for your daily needs no need to know your plumbers, electricians, carpenters.) We're still social animals in the end.
3. Return to form Religion used to play a major part in society right up until the modern era. As we now face signs of societal decay, some go back to what has arguably worked previously.
4. Finding purpose & meaning Religions tell people of life's meaning and purpose. In end-stage capitalist era where people are mostly in perpetual rat race, people look for alternative to such lifestyle.
5. Prophetic fulfillment Niche, but some religion (I only know of abrahamic ones) foretold of end of times. No comments here, differ from one religion to another.
Here's a take on Nietzsche's God is Dead
Transcript at 6:17 onwards: Nietzsche recognized the value of religion as a 'social cement' and moral compass. Even though he was critical of it, he also feared what would happen if Christianity in the West would fade. Why? Because according to him, the West (and the rest of humanity, for that matter) lacks an adequate replacement for religion, something strong and robust enough to fill the and existential vacuum that'd emerge from it.
tl:DR People turn to religion to solve an underlying problem. Solve those problems (1-4, 5 would be difficult) and people wouldn't be turning to PAS who tunggang religion for answers. Instead Anwar opted prove he's the better jockey, so that's where we are today.
To be fair you can see a trend around the world that a number of society are turning conservatives and re-embracing traditional values, which I'd wager for the exact same reason for 1-4. Even part of China youth falls under such category.
Since you've established that PAS is perpetually growing, here's something that's worthwhile to be pondered first and foremost.
WHY do people turn to religion as time goes on?
IMO it could be a few things: 1. Facing insurmountable obstacles (for coping) Pretty relevant, especially in modern time where people can work but still be in 'relative' poverty. Life used to be simpler, and simpler means harder for people to feel hopeless. Why else would suicide rate goes hand-in-hand with a nation's progress as it becomes more developed?
2. Pursuing a sense of community, solidarity, togetherness, strength. Modern, urban living promotes isolationism (just earn enough money, anything else can be solved if you have enough, no need to befriend your neighbors in case of emergency, no need to know your farmers, fishermen, butchers for your daily needs no need to know your plumbers, electricians, carpenters.) We're still social animals in the end.
3. Return to form Religion used to play a major part in society right up until the modern era. As we now face signs of societal decay, some go back to what has arguably worked previously.
4. Finding purpose & meaning Religions tell people of life's meaning and purpose. In end-stage capitalist era where people are mostly in perpetual rat race, people look for alternative to such lifestyle.
5. Prophetic fulfillment Niche, but some religion (I only know of abrahamic ones) foretold of end of times. No comments here, differ from one religion to another.
Here's a take on Nietzsche's God is Dead
Transcript at 6:17 onwards: Nietzsche recognized the value of religion as a 'social cement' and moral compass. Even though he was critical of it, he also feared what would happen if Christianity in the West would fade. Why? Because according to him, the West (and the rest of humanity, for that matter) lacks an adequate replacement for religion, something strong and robust enough to fill the and existential vacuum that'd emerge from it.
tl:DR People turn to religion to solve an underlying problem. Solve those problems (1-4, 5 would be difficult) and people wouldn't be turning to PAS who tunggang religion for answers. Instead Anwar opted prove he's the better jockey, so that's where we are today.
To be fair you can see a trend around the world that a number of society are turning conservatives and re-embracing traditional values, which I'd wager for the exact same reason for 1-4. Even part of China youth falls under such category.
Oledi said in my opening post ma...
QUOTE
Scale down on the conservatism, separate religion from government, improve our education so that people learns religion is not everything, improve the economy, make more jobs, more jobs n better economy makes rakyat happier and less prone to seek religion to console themselves, go hardline approach and arrest & jail the racial and religious instigators, no matter T20, member of parliament, malays or non malays.
GagalLand and mrg220t pancut awal after KKB by election. Topkek!
QUOTE(GagalLand @ May 12 2024, 07:42 PM)
Yes
3 Malay voting districts in KBB had swung back to PH/BN
The ice has melted, thanks to DSAI
Avalanche is in the making for GE16
QUOTE(mrg220t @ May 12 2024, 09:50 PM)
The copium is astounding lmao. UMNO helping to take back 6 out of 8 Malay PDMs that PN won last elections, Civil servants swinging back to PH, majority % higher than last election.
Still wanna talk like PN won lmaoooooo. It is a huge huge huge failure for PN this PRK la, you can even tell it from how Bersatu Selangor reacted during their press conference last night.
This post has been edited by COOLPINK: Jul 8 2024, 12:05 AM
Yeah, just expanding the discussion. People who are anti-religion likes to dismiss things straight, just pointing out that people do not seek religion for no reason. The focus is here is to find out which is the main pain point, because different demographics have different priority (e.g. chinese may think economy is most important, malay may rate self-fulfillment & community value higher, etc.)
However if people pursue it because of point 5, then you don't really have much choice tbh.
More Pas than Pas 404. Madani just showing progressive Islam instead of carrybun way practiced by Pas. PAS. > Religion> all, every solution is praying. Madani> Rakyat must work hard to achieve success.
If non is too idealists, we'll have Sheraton move 2.0. Nons have been teaching PH 1 0 lessons with by elections, end up Bersatu leaving the sinking ships and do a Sheraton move 1.0
Yeah, just expanding the discussion. People who are anti-religion likes to dismiss things straight, just pointing out that people do not seek religion for no reason. The focus is here is to find out which is the main pain point, because different demographics have different priority (e.g. chinese may think economy is most important, malay may rate self-fulfillment & community value higher, etc.)
However if people pursue it because of point 5, then you don't really have much choice tbh.
True that. Anyways, I believe the malay muslim increasing conservatism was by design not chance.
Why is that so? I came from the 80's and malay muslims then were pretty chill and more concerned with putting in a hard day's work rather than looking for things to be triggered at. Things started to slowly change in the early 90's when the islamization by mahathir and anwar (yes anwar) started to take effect. Compounded by our economy not growing as much as it should since the 97 crisis.
Now before pnpas macais start mocking at why we still vote anwar, bear in mind he has changed his tone since reformasi days to "kita semua anak malaysia" instead of his fiery ABIM stuff. If its all a giant bullshit then so be it, not as if nons will vote Hadi lmao. So yeah, it still comes back to him now, if anwar still thinks pandering to extremism works, then he's just handing GE16 to pnpas on a silver platter
This post has been edited by bigwolf: Jul 8 2024, 12:17 AM
True that. Anyways, I believe the malay muslim increasing conservatism was by design not chance.
Why is that so? I came from the 80's and malay muslims then were pretty chill and more concerned with putting in a hard day's work rather than looking for things to be triggered at. Things started to slowly change in the early 90's when the islamization by mahathir and anwar (yes anwar) started to take effect.
Now before pnpas macais start mocking at why we still vote anwar, bear in mind he has changed his tone since reformasi days to "kita semua anak malaysia" instead of his fiery ABIM stuff. If its all a giant bullshit then so be it, not as if nons will vote Hadi lmao. So yeah, it still comes back to him now, if anwar still thinks pandering to extremism works, then he's just handing GE16 to pnpas on a silver platter
You would be right. To effectively counter extremism he should be pandering to moderation by looking east towards S&S to secure their support.
Pandering to extremism will only push those 2 states further away from him as well as the moderates in peninsula.
This post has been edited by COOLPINK: Jul 8 2024, 12:23 AM
True that. Anyways, I believe the malay muslim increasing conservatism was by design not chance.
Why is that so? I came from the 80's and malay muslims then were pretty chill and more concerned with putting in a hard day's work rather than looking for things to be triggered at. Things started to slowly change in the early 90's when the islamization by mahathir and anwar (yes anwar) started to take effect.
Now before pnpas macais start mocking at why we still vote anwar, bear in mind he has changed his tone since reformasi days to "kita semua anak malaysia" instead of his fiery ABIM stuff. If its all a giant bullshit then so be it, not as if nons will vote Hadi lmao. So yeah, it still comes back to him now, if anwar still thinks pandering to extremism works, then he's just handing GE16 to pnpas on a silver platter
Although I'm younger than that, I'd like to clarify that what you call islamization back then is what I'd say correction/re-adjustments to the faith teachings. Practice of Islam back then was heavily intermingled with practices that's heavily focused on malay culture (which as we all know was also heavily influenced by other faith like hinduism & buddhism from Srivijaya time and what not). The islamization was more towards re-examining the faith moving towards the proper one as per the teachings and cutting off the malay-cultured-but-opposing-islam part.
PAS's 'if you don't vote for us you're going to hell' & 'vote us to enter heaven' is still bullshit though. Else they'd have gained so much more traction in the 90s instead of being a fringe party since their PMIP days during Tunku Abdul Rahman time. Apparently they once even made a solat hajat group prayer event to wish for Mahathir's immediate death kek.
sos: my late grandfather who went to British School but is also a pious person who studied & taught religion to kampung folks.
EDIT: Also people need to ask this, if PAS is really the champion of the faith, why did islamization need to come from UMNO folks like Anwar?
This post has been edited by keybearer: Jul 8 2024, 12:36 AM
Although I'm younger than that, I'd like to clarify that what you call islamization back then is what I'd say correction/re-adjustments to the faith teachings. Practice of Islam back then was heavily intermingled with practices that's heavily focused on malay culture (which as we all know was also heavily influenced by other faith like hinduism & buddhism from Srivijaya time and what not). The islamization was more towards re-examining the faith moving towards the proper one as per the teachings and cutting off the malay-cultured-but-opposing-islam part.
PAS's 'if you don't vote for us you're going to hell' & 'vote us to enter heaven' is still bullshit though. Else they'd have gained so much more traction in the 90s instead of being a fringe party since their PMIP days during Tunku Abdul Rahman time. Apparently they once even made a solat hajat group prayer event to wish for Mahathir's immediate death kek.
sos: my late grandfather who went to British School but is also a pious person who studied & taught religion to kampung folks.
EDIT: Also people need to ask this, if PAS is really the champion of the faith, why did islamization need to come from UMNO folks like Anwar?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Estimates of Saudi spending on religious causes abroad include "upward of $100 billion";[272] $2–3 billion per year since 1975 (compared to the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1 billion/year);[273] and "at least $87 billion" from 1987 to 2007.[274] Reliability of these rough estimates have been disputed due to their inconsistencies and lack of a scientific methodology for precise quantification.[275]
Its largesse funded an estimated "90% of the expenses of the entire faith", throughout the Muslim world, according to journalist Dawood al-Shirian.[276] It extended to young and old, from children's madrasas to high-level scholarship.[277] "Books, scholarships, fellowships, mosques" (for example, "more than 1,500 mosques were built from Saudi public funds over the last 50 years") were paid for.[278] It rewarded journalists and academics, who followed it and built satellite campuses around Egypt for Al Azhar, the oldest and most influential Islamic university.[279] Yahya Birt counts spending on "1,500 mosques, 210 Islamic centres and dozens of Muslim academies and schools".[273][280] Apart from state patronage, a major source of proselytization has been the private charities and religious activities of Muslim individuals and organizations.[281]
This financial aid has done much to overwhelm less strict local interpretations of Islam, according to observers like Dawood al-Shirian and Lee Kuan Yew,[276] arguing that it caused the Saudi interpretation (sometimes called "petro-Islam"[282]) to be perceived as the correct interpretation – or the "gold standard" of Islam – in many Muslims' minds.[283][284]
Peter Mandaville asserts that the commonly reported data estimates regarding Saudi religious funding are unreliable due to the sources being "internally inconsistent" and based on "non-specific hearsay". According to Mandaville, the wide-ranging and controversial usage of the term "Wahhabism" has rendered researching Saudi religious transnationalism and assessing its actual magnitude even more confusing. Moreover, the post-Cold War era governments had commonly used the label "Wahhabism" to designate a wide swathe of religious sects, including those which were doctrinally at odds with Wahhabism.[275]
This impacted Malaysia culminating in the Memali incident. BN that time (curse be their stupidity) saw or thought moderation was not working and they were slowly losing rural grounds to PAS and islamic hardliners. Hence they thought to counter PAS by trying to appease these hardliners by pandering to them. And the rest, as they say, is history
disagree. DAP is like the new MCA. very disappointing
During ph1 2018-20, can see almost everyday whatever phdapigs did was wrong or too much. Tak jaga sensitiviti orang melayu, biadap, want reform also do it steadily la, dun rush liddis la yada yada yada
Now post ge15, dap less visible oledi, can see the same ppl bitching dap=mca2, 42 parliament seats but quiet like dog, dap no balls dun dare to voice out yada yada yada
Do complain, dun do also complain, apa korang nak sebenarnya?
During ph1 2018-20, can see almost everyday whatever phdapigs did was wrong or too much. Tak jaga sensitiviti orang melayu, biadap, want reform also do it steadily la, dun rush liddis la yada yada yada
Now post ge15, dap less visible oledi, can see the same ppl bitching dap=mca2, 42 parliament seats but quiet like dog, dap no balls dun dare to voice out yada yada yada
Do complain, dun do also complain, apa korang nak sebenarnya?
Just do what they have been doing since they were the opposition. Dont be like a dog on leash
This impacted Malaysia culminating in the Memali incident. BN that time (curse be their stupidity) saw or thought moderation was not working and they were slowly losing rural grounds to PAS and islamic hardliners. Hence they thought to counter PAS by trying to appease these hardliners by pandering to them. And the rest, as they say, is history
My point is people listened to UMNO on religion when that is PAS's niche. They've been around since the 1950s, if religion was really their thing islamization should've come from them. Ergo, people should wise up that they're not really who they say they are (but then again, which politician is lmao.)
To be fair I don't really know how PAS was like pre-current era. Just like how Gerakan had their moments, PAS back then is likely different too (easiest to see is before & after Nik Aziz's passing)
More Pas than Pas 404. Madani just showing progressive Islam instead of carrybun way practiced by Pas. PAS. > Religion> all, every solution is praying. Madani> Rakyat must work hard to achieve success.
If non is too idealists, we'll have Sheraton move 2.0. Nons have been teaching PH 1 0 lessons with by elections, end up Bersatu leaving the sinking ships and do a Sheraton move 1.0
don't think will have Sheraton. because last time Sheraton also due to Mahathir suddenly resigned. with Anwar at helm, he has said many times, bring no confidence vote to the floor, and he will gracefully step back when lost the vote.
This post has been edited by ipohps3: Jul 8 2024, 01:12 AM
My point is people listened to UMNO on religion when that is PAS's niche. They've been around since the 1950s, if religion was really their thing islamization should've come from them. Ergo, people should wise up that they're not really who they say they are (but then again, which politician is lmao.)
To be fair I don't really know how PAS was like pre-current era. Just like how Gerakan had their moments, PAS back then is likely different too (easiest to see is before & after Nik Aziz's passing)
From the perspective of a non who just observed matters since the 80's, its more like UMNO/BN *opened* the road to islamization but ended up PAS benefitted from it. Establishing Jakim, islamization of govt structure, increasing religion in sekolah kebangsaan, mushrooming religious schools instead of curbing them, etc, all that actually played into PAS' hands. Ppl gets radicalized, then PAS just need to say "UMON parti kapiaq, kami lah parti pejuang Islam!" and they all joined PAS as champions Islam.
Same as what's happening now, Anwar tries to champion palestine (sampai lah PM palestine/Hamas), cosplay in sekolah kebangsaan, not curbing extremism & intolerance for fear of offending the malay muslim votes, all that and does the malay muslim votes comes back to PH? No, it was PAS who gains more votes
This post has been edited by bigwolf: Jul 8 2024, 01:33 AM
From the perspective of a non who just observed matters since the 80's, its more like UMNO/BN *opened* the road to islamization but ended up PAS benefitted from it. Establishing Jakim, islamization of govt structure, increasing religion in sekolah kebangsaan, mushrooming religious schools instead of curbing them, etc, all that actually played into PAS' hands. Ppl gets radicalized, then PAS just need to say "UMON parti kapiaq, kami lah parti pejuang Islam!" and they all joined PAS as champions Islam.
Same as what's happening now, Anwar tries to champion palestine (sampai lah PM palestine/Hamas), cosplay in sekolah kebangsaan, not curbing extremism & intolerance for fear of offending the malay muslim votes, all that and does the malay muslim votes comes back to PH? No, it was PAS who gains more votes
Well I won't comment on who benefited more back then, just sharing my grandfather's take and clarifying even if it wasn't political it would've happened eitherway sooner or later.
Speaking as somebody who do not trust Anwar ever since what he & Rafizi did to the late Tan Sri Khalid, he's on too much of trust deficit with the bumi to ever get back to zero, much less become positive. That is considering if he even do a great job during this term, which evidently he's not. Don't get me wrong, I want him to do good too cause he's the PM that we got for now (the same way I felt about all the previous PMs), but he is who he is.
Nons underestimated how much we've pretty much labelled him as a snake / chameleon, but I guess you guys are finding that out right now. I used to highlight this but kena label macai PN, so I just senyap and let his true nature come out for all to see.
Well I won't comment on who benefited more back then, just sharing my grandfather's take and clarifying even if it wasn't political it would've happened eitherway sooner or later.
Speaking as somebody who do not trust Anwar ever since what he & Rafizi did to the late Tan Sri Khalid, he's on too much of trust deficit with the bumi to ever get back to zero, much less become positive. That is considering if he even do a great job during this term, which evidently he's not. Don't get me wrong, I want him to do good too cause he's the PM that we got for now (the same way I felt about all the previous PMs), but he is who he is.
Nons underestimated how much we've pretty much labelled him as a snake / chameleon, but I guess you guys are finding that out right now. I used to highlight this but kena label macai PN, so I just senyap and let his true nature come out for all to see.
Agree with you it would have happened sooner or later, but the way I look at it, umno/bn fubar'ed the whole thing and today is what we get. After the Memali incident, they had a golden opportunity to ban and outlaw pas just like pkm was outlawed, since pas is actually seditious for wanting to replace our democratic governance with religious theology, just like pkm wanted to replace democracy with communism. It could have been done back in the 80's when we were more open. Impact would be huge but could still be manageable by appealing to the moderate malay muslims who were still the majority then, but too bad the opportunity had passed and its too late now. Today I fear those who wish for "kerajaan Islam" rather than "demokrasi" is the bigger segment of population now...
As for Anwar, lol yeah, that langkah kajang was seriously stupid Yet for all of that, to a certain extend I still have some faith in him, in that I think what he's been doing now, is trying to buy time by pandering to this crowd for now and slowly implement the reforms. But as can be seen 2 years on, the pandering is not working. If he wants to survive the next GE, he better start changing strategy
This post has been edited by bigwolf: Jul 8 2024, 02:39 AM
funny thing is the politcian cannot tahan smarter ppl than them..they feel threatened...hence better keep them stupid by studying religion and religion being hijacked by PAS...now they stuck in between
-lapuji buat apa sekarang for the economy? -SALAHKAN PUAS AND PN??haha -malays and b40 are not benefitting anything from madanon -malays right now felt if madanon stay as bmx all bumi privileges will slowly gone. -malays thought right now DAPik is the one who controlling madanon gov at the back -jangan DELULU ,only in lyn said malays sokong madanon. -and why ur so worry about sg bakap? -me so happy with sg bakap result,its an early sign madanon will not get chance in next ge
My point is people listened to UMNO on religion when that is PAS's niche. They've been around since the 1950s, if religion was really their thing islamization should've come from them. Ergo, people should wise up that they're not really who they say they are (but then again, which politician is lmao.)
To be fair I don't really know how PAS was like pre-current era. Just like how Gerakan had their moments, PAS back then is likely different too (easiest to see is before & after Nik Aziz's passing)
Pas in 1950-1960s were different They more like.islam version of umno Thry still live like p ramlee era..sing in kenduri kawin etc It was nik aziz, hadi group that bring the 'bersatu bersama ulama' to pas They saw the iran islamic revolution in 1979 and wanna do the same to malaysia They successful in kelantan..then terengganu Now they targeting the whole.peninsular
Well he seem to be forgetting whom voted for them.. he have to understand you can never satisfy both sides.. might as well just do what you promised, do what you have to instead of worrying about the east coast folks..
Anyway DAPs Penang seems to be getting alot hammering even within party also kena.
U cant please evwryone. This what you promise to ppl during your reformasi time. Worst ppl like DAP die die follow, now things is not as easy as you think. BN had been gone through ages those not doing well or follow is within BN close issue. Reformasi is more fight for his ownself. Issue is does BN done anything to ppl during that time? Ppl die die support, now you are the leader what you do for those past ppl supporting reformasi. Any chamges? You see ppl like Tian Chua, what he get at the end? Othere words you just part of pawn in the chess game.
don't think will have Sheraton. because last time Sheraton also due to Mahathir suddenly resigned. with Anwar at helm, he has said many times, bring no confidence vote to the floor, and he will gracefully step back when lost the vote.
It's because PHBN still won 4 out of previous 6 by-elections. If PHBN keep losing by elections, some groups may abandon sinking ship and plan a no confident votes. It's not the first time politicians abandoned a multiracial government.
Ppl vote for pas so no development and their kampung will always be kampung. Vote for pas in KL not so bad since everywhere left and right is all condo development. Tired edy see any empty land auto turn into condo development….
-lapuji buat apa sekarang for the economy? -SALAHKAN PUAS AND PN??haha -malays and b40 are not benefitting anything from madanon -malays right now felt if madanon stay as bmx all bumi privileges will slowly gone. -malays thought right now DAPik is the one who controlling madanon gov at the back -jangan DELULU ,only in lyn said malays sokong madanon. -and why ur so worry about sg bakap? -me so happy with sg bakap result,its an early sign madanon will not get chance in next ge
hence the point of my opening post lor. U dunno how to read or cannot understand? smh
Although I'm younger than that, I'd like to clarify that what you call islamization back then is what I'd say correction/re-adjustments to the faith teachings. Practice of Islam back then was heavily intermingled with practices that's heavily focused on malay culture (which as we all know was also heavily influenced by other faith like hinduism & buddhism from Srivijaya time and what not). The islamization was more towards re-examining the faith moving towards the proper one as per the teachings and cutting off the malay-cultured-but-opposing-islam part.
PAS's 'if you don't vote for us you're going to hell' & 'vote us to enter heaven' is still bullshit though. Else they'd have gained so much more traction in the 90s instead of being a fringe party since their PMIP days during Tunku Abdul Rahman time. Apparently they once even made a solat hajat group prayer event to wish for Mahathir's immediate death kek.
sos: my late grandfather who went to British School but is also a pious person who studied & taught religion to kampung folks.
EDIT: Also people need to ask this, if PAS is really the champion of the faith, why did islamization need to come from UMNO folks like Anwar?
The Islamisation actually can be defined as the influence of Islamic teachings from Mesir, Turkey, Jordan, Iran and Middle East.
Malaysia had own Islamic teachings that suit Malaysia Multicultural Society long time ago, but government sent a lot of students to Mesir, Jordan, Turkey and Middle East to study religion.
and all these middle east countries are monocultural countries, not same like Malaysia, a multicultural country.
The students bring back Middle East monocultural ideology and system, and spread the ideas in Malaysia.
From observation, actually PUas also want to convert Malaysia to follow Middle East, which their people largely depend on government benefits, and spend more time on religion.
Mahatir was asking people to follow Japan.
Our PMX now ask people to follow China, but China also have bad things that Malay do not like.
If he wants to survive the next GE, he better start changing strategy
His snake nature is working against him, you can't cry about not having enough money need to cut subsidy introduce taxes then blow it all away on something that's not critical. Can't say the government do not have enough money then announce 'unprecedented' salary raise to the public sector. Can't say people need to save up for retirement then allow for EPF account 3 withdrawal. Can't say 10As get free pass to matriculation then say quota is unaffected. Can't say madani is corruption free when he's in bed with one of the bigger crooks. Can't say you're pro-palestine / neutral whenever it suits your needs depending on your audience.
See what I'm getting at? He must still think this is some pre-newspaper era or something where information do not flow as freely and it's hard for people to criticize with facts. He's practically begging to be called out.
IMHO to be perfectly honest, he can continue his strategy, provided the situation at home is flourishing. If he did his job well enough then people would compromise to a certain extent. Ultimately what strategy he implements does not matter if he's still being a snake AND doing a shit job overall.
That's likely a lost cause, how many time have you seen a snake at a workplace buckled up and started pulling his own weight? Zero time in my case. People who depended on their mouth to get where they are usually do not polish other necessary skills in life.
His snake nature is working against him, you can't cry about not having enough money need to cut subsidy introduce taxes then blow it all away on something that's not critical. Can't say the government do not have enough money then announce 'unprecedented' salary raise to the public sector. Can't say people need to save up for retirement then allow for EPF account 3 withdrawal. Can't say 10As get free pass to matriculation then say quota is unaffected. Can't say madani is corruption free when he's in bed with one of the bigger crooks. Can't say you're pro-palestine / neutral whenever it suits your needs depending on your audience.
See what I'm getting at? He must still think this is some pre-newspaper era or something where information do not flow as freely and it's hard for people to criticize with facts. He's practically begging to be called out.
IMHO to be perfectly honest, he can continue his strategy, provided the situation at home is flourishing. If he did his job well enough then people would compromise to a certain extent. Ultimately what strategy he implements does not matter if he's still being a snake AND doing a shit job overall.
That's likely a lost cause, how many time have you seen a snake at a workplace buckled up and started pulling his own weight? Zero time in my case. People who depended on their mouth to get where they are usually do not polish other necessary skills in life.
Add on saying we're not going to be lenient anymore and will be tough against r&r shitstirrers, then allow kk mart, zus, all these boycott boycott lawan puak pendatang in socmed to fester uncontrolled
Add on saying we're not going to be lenient anymore and will be tough against r&r shitstirrers, then allow kk mart, zus, all these boycott boycott lawan puak pendatang in socmed to fester uncontrolled
If you're aware of his pattern from even before becoming PM, he's never one to take a strong stance from the get go. He usually wait for the general sentiment of an issue to develop then only insert himself at the front, usually atleast 1-2 days after the buzz on socmed.
Difficult to turn an invertebrate populist to a vertebrate.
Ppl vote for pas so no development and their kampung will always be kampung. Vote for pas in KL not so bad since everywhere left and right is all condo development. Tired edy see any empty land auto turn into condo development….
I for one rather have condo left and right than get free teh tarik. The lesser of 2 evils they say...
This post has been edited by COOLPINK: Jul 8 2024, 01:09 PM
-lapuji buat apa sekarang for the economy? -SALAHKAN PUAS AND PN??haha -malays and b40 are not benefitting anything from madanon -malays right now felt if madanon stay as bmx all bumi privileges will slowly gone. -malays thought right now DAPik is the one who controlling madanon gov at the back -jangan DELULU ,only in lyn said malays sokong madanon. -and why ur so worry about sg bakap? -me so happy with sg bakap result,its an early sign madanon will not get chance in next ge
i don't care which government takes control.
as long as me gomen servant reap all the rewards, any government can tax the shit out of you raykat peasants, and me and gomen servant buddies can enjoice the extra bonus, naik pangkat, more special increment and etc
deal with it boi.
inb4 jangan persoal bumi ini milik pesawat awam.jpg
don't underestimate the powers of religious brainwashing whatever the religion is...people have been killing each other over religion for thousand of years...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
The Islamisation actually can be defined as the influence of Islamic teachings from Mesir, Turkey, Jordan, Iran and Middle East.
Malaysia had own Islamic teachings that suit Malaysia Multicultural Society long time ago, but
government sent a lot of students to Mesir, Jordan, Turkey and Middle East to study religion.
and all these middle east countries are monocultural countries, not same like Malaysia, a multicultural country.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
The students bring back Middle East monocultural ideology and system, and spread the ideas in Malaysia.
From observation, actually PUas also want to convert Malaysia to follow Middle East, which their people largely depend on government benefits, and spend more time on religion.
Mahatir was asking people to follow Japan.
Our PMX now ask people to follow China, but China also have bad things that Malay do not like.
BMX started all this & now its all coming back to bite him in the arse! #BMX.sepenggal! Next GE PKR will disappear!
as long as me gomen servant reap all the rewards, any government can tax the shit out of you raykat peasants, and me and gomen servant buddies can enjoice the extra bonus, naik pangkat, more special increment and etc
deal with it boi.
inb4 jangan persoal bumi ini milik pesawat awam.jpg
Bang Non keep blaming on Maha Kaya and as results, normal citizens suffers due to his palpable performance.
Why don't cancel the EM subsidies if he dare.
Don't think so he's THAT stupid. But if PAS, then dunno lah, these ppl if can, the entire country gdp goes directly into their pockets. They need their mercedes
During ph1 2018-20, can see almost everyday whatever phdapigs did was wrong or too much. Tak jaga sensitiviti orang melayu, biadap, want reform also do it steadily la, dun rush liddis la yada yada yada
Now post ge15, dap less visible oledi, can see the same ppl bitching dap=mca2, 42 parliament seats but quiet like dog, dap no balls dun dare to voice out yada yada yada
Do complain, dun do also complain, apa korang nak sebenarnya?
their karma strikes back la apa lagi
MCA did not promise things they can't do, but DAP did too many of those, so they deserve a slap in the face
From the perspective of a non who just observed matters since the 80's, its more like UMNO/BN [b]*opened* the road to islamization but ended up PAS benefitted from it. Establishing Jakim, islamization of govt structure, increasing religion in sekolah kebangsaan, mushrooming religious schools instead of curbing them,[/B] etc, all that actually played into PAS' hands. Ppl gets radicalized, then PAS just need to say "UMON parti kapiaq, kami lah parti pejuang Islam!" and they all joined PAS as champions Islam.
Same as what's happening now, Anwar tries to champion palestine (sampai lah PM palestine/Hamas), cosplay in sekolah kebangsaan, not curbing extremism & intolerance for fear of offending the malay muslim votes, all that and does the malay muslim votes comes back to PH? No, it was PAS who gains more votes
yay, the person who started out all these is the PMX himself today
MCA did not promise things they can't do, but DAP did too many of those, so they deserve a slap in the face
Dap promised 100 things, fulfilled 1 failed 99 is worse than mca who never promised anything so they can be excused for fucking up the country, ok noted