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 Country Heights Grower Scheme (CHGS), anyone heard before?

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gark
post Jan 31 2013, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(kinwing @ Jan 31 2013, 09:59 AM)
I am wondering which authorities approved this scheme? Looks like the SC has not said a word on this scheme. So far only CCM is the only authority approved this scheme, so I not sure if CCM got the relevant resources as compare to the SC to understand what type of investment scheme they approved?
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The scheme is more or less worded as 'contract farming' so it does not really involve SCC and BI. However being a 'contract farming' the investor have absolutely no rights on the assets. It is not illegal, but investors get zilch protection.

Example MR A owns the land. Mr B gives money to Mr A 'farm' the land with agreed splitting of profits ie 50:50. Mr A used the money to farm but ultimately crop failed, so no returns. Mr A gives back Mr B whatever left of the money and have no further rights, but Mr A still owns the land. laugh.gif

IMHO, I wonder why most people who wants a piece of the oil palm action, don't just invest in big listed plantation companies. They have more security, land not over priced (most of the land book value have not been revised since 80's), expert planters and you get similar or more returns than these 'scheme'. rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 10:34 AM
kinwing
post Jan 31 2013, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jan 31 2013, 10:28 AM)
The scheme is more or less worded as 'contract farming' so it does not really involve SCC and BI. However being a 'contract farming' the investor have absolutely no rights on the assets. It is not illegal, but investors get zilch protection.

Example MR A owns the land. Mr B gives money to Mr A 'farm' the land with agreed splitting of profits ie 50:50. Mr B used the money to farm but ultimately crop failed, so no returns. Mr B gives back Mr A whatever left of the money, but Mr B still owns the land.  laugh.gif
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I see, it looks a type of quasi-security issued to collect fund from the public and not subject to approvals by the SC or BNM, another loophole shocking.gif .
gark
post Jan 31 2013, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(jeffayn @ Jan 30 2013, 08:41 PM)
No more story .. now hard facts
user posted image
figure above by CGHS, not I sendiri reka, cipta or hear so

The actual cost of land is RM39.5M  and now is valued at RM129M
They had spent ~RM93.4M to develop the plantation. assuming a 10k acre that means RM9340 to plant, to develop it. For palm oil industries, this number is too high.

Now they are going to buy back one to one and of course the dividend you can keep. Sound great right? Wrong.
Even you get back every dime of your money back,

You have lost 4 years
You had paid RM215M FOR SOMETHING WORTH RM39.5 + DEV RM93.4 = RM132.9 still over pay by 60% premium

Now you get back your money, Mr Lee will still get
back his RM 12.2 M deed
the land development cost of RM93.4M
the best part now the land worth at least RM129M and belong to him and he didnt spend a dime for the previous 4 years

LEE PAYOUT RM78.5M
LEE TAKE BACK RM12.2M + RM129M = RM141.2M + SPENT OUR MONEY (RM93.4M) which he need not to spend further to develop = RM234.6M in asset and form
NET RM234.6M-RM78.5M = RM156.1M He fork out 0 at day 1 and earn immediate RM156.1M today!

That is how every one should run their company , role model for Malaysia Business Man !!!!
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Excellent analysis, no wonder everyone is rushing to put up these oil palm scheme. Better you go and buy big plantation companies at least you will not overpay for assets.
prophetjul
post Jan 31 2013, 10:41 AM

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All the biggies are using themes of the day to make their big bucks at the expense of the investors..........be it oil palm, gold, silver, etc....
gark
post Jan 31 2013, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 10:41 AM)
All the biggies are using themes of the day to make their big bucks at the expense of the investors..........be it oil palm, gold, silver, etc....
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For me I rather get it at the source... for gold I buy gold mining company (New Crest), oil palm, plantation companies (Various) and oil, oil drilling companies (Exxon), property, REITs. At least I get a piece of the asset, with full declaration and no fleecing like all these get rich scheme... sweat.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 10:46 AM
prophetjul
post Jan 31 2013, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jan 31 2013, 10:44 AM)
For me I rather get it at the source... for gold I buy gold mining company (New Crest), oil palm, plantation companies (Various) and oil, oil drilling companies (Exxon), property, REITs. At least I get a piece of the asset, with full declaration and no fleecing like all these get rich scheme... sweat.gif
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ALLLLLL these schemes are DERIVATIVEs of the product or assets.

ALLLLL DERIVATIVES ARE SEWAGE says Warren Buffet nod.gif

Worse LKY shewed that the expenses included the yield paid to growers frommmmmm ummmm the captal exercise!

Is this not PONSI.??? rclxub.gif
kinwing
post Jan 31 2013, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 10:41 AM)
All the biggies are using themes of the day to make their big bucks at the expense of the investors..........be it oil palm, gold, silver, etc....
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A lot retail investors are not so market savvy and don't know how to count, too bad for them.

But I realise a lot investors have the mindset of sheep mentality and not doing enough homework before investing, like this case that the traps are quite obvious to be noticed through proper vetting through the prospectus and simple calculation, and worse investors should have known the creditability of LKY. Or all CHGS Growers were having the thought that this time is different and they won't be so unlucky to encounter another trap?
kinwing
post Jan 31 2013, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 11:00 AM)
ALLLLLL these schemes are DERIVATIVEs of the product or assets.

ALLLLL DERIVATIVES ARE SEWAGE says Warren Buffet    nod.gif

Worse LKY shewed that the expenses included the yield paid to growers frommmmmm ummmm the captal exercise!

Is this not PONSI.???  rclxub.gif
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Yah to me it is a Ponzi.
gark
post Jan 31 2013, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 11:00 AM)
ALLLLLL these schemes are DERIVATIVEs of the product or assets.

ALLLLL DERIVATIVES ARE SEWAGE says Warren Buffet     nod.gif

Worse LKY shewed that the expenses included the yield paid to growers frommmmmm ummmm the captal exercise!

Is this not PONSI.???   rclxub.gif
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No wor... officially this is called 'contract farming' but underneath in ponzi...(hidden)...brows.gif

BTW any investment (even stocks!) that pays dividend > income will not last and will fall sooner or later... yawn.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 11:11 AM
kinwing
post Jan 31 2013, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jan 31 2013, 11:08 AM)
No wor... officially this is called 'contract farming'  but underneath in ponzi...(hidden)...brows.gif
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Yah just like the return is claimed to be 'guaranteed'. Now they default, can we hold on their term 'guaranteed return' tongue.gif ?
prophetjul
post Jan 31 2013, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(kinwing @ Jan 31 2013, 11:07 AM)
A lot retail investors are not so market savvy and don't know how to count, too bad for them.

But I realise a lot investors have the mindset of sheep mentality and not doing enough homework before investing, like this case that the traps are quite obvious to be noticed through proper vetting through the prospectus and simple calculation, and worse investors should have known the creditability of LKY. Or all CHGS Growers were having the thought that this time is different and they won't be so unlucky to encounter another trap?
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aye.......simply Rm20,000 to develope an acre of oil palm land is OTT......simply fleecing.
Thats why they can use part of this capital to entice those sheeple with YIELD.

Much like Gnneva, use the capital to pay YIELDs..........so ssorry sheeple
prophetjul
post Jan 31 2013, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jan 31 2013, 11:08 AM)
No wor... officially this is called 'contract farming'  but underneath in ponzi...(hidden)...brows.gif
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if i OWNED the land and contract it out, thats contract farming......

This is a derivative of oil palm pl biggrin.gif antation.....no ASS-et biggrin.gif
gark
post Jan 31 2013, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 11:12 AM)
if i OWNED the land and contract it out, thats contract farming......

This is a derivative of oil palm pl   biggrin.gif antation.....no ASS-et     biggrin.gif
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You don't own the land Mr lee does... you are paying Mr. Lee to 'contract farm' for you and split the earnings. You have no right to the assets, just Mr Lee. rclxms.gif

Basically Mr. Lee sold you a call option (is a derivative right? tongue.gif ) on the future palm oil crop...

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 11:15 AM
MakNok
post Jan 31 2013, 11:14 AM

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why the marketing cost is 7.6million FIXED throughout the 4 years period?


prophetjul
post Jan 31 2013, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jan 31 2013, 11:13 AM)
You don't own the land Mr lee does... you are paying Mr. Lee to 'contract farm' for you and split the earnings. You have no right to the assets, just Mr Lee.  rclxms.gif

Basically Mr. Lee sold you a call option (is a derivative right?  tongue.gif ) on the future palm oil crop...
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Yes...thats a good way of describing.........a call option.....
NOW can growers claim the PALMS to be theirs????

GO an DIG them UP! biggrin.gif
prophetjul
post Jan 31 2013, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(MakNok @ Jan 31 2013, 11:14 AM)
why the marketing cost is 7.6million FIXED throughout the 4 years period?
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They should check WHO the marketing company is......another related party? hmm.gif
gark
post Jan 31 2013, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 11:18 AM)
Yes...thats a good way of describing.........a call option.....
NOW can growers claim the PALMS to be theirs????

GO an DIG them UP!    biggrin.gif
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Technically no, the palm does not belong to the grower, just the fruit... can go and collect your own fruit? whistling.gif
gark
post Jan 31 2013, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 11:18 AM)
They should check WHO the marketing company is......another related party?   hmm.gif
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CON-sultants are paid a very very hefty fee for every plot sold, so all these money is to pay those consultants that enticed many of them sheeps into the hole... brows.gif

But.. why is con-sultant fee paid out from the grower's fee? hmm.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 11:24 AM
prophetjul
post Jan 31 2013, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jan 31 2013, 11:20 AM)
Technically no, the palm does not belong to the grower, just the fruit... can go and collect your own fruit? whistling.gif
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Alas........... growers are TOTALly fleeecedddd nod.gif
kinwing
post Jan 31 2013, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 31 2013, 11:18 AM)
They should check WHO the marketing company is......another related party?  hmm.gif
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I come to know a marketing agent, he also makes complain. Maybe just to show that marketing agents are also hit as hard as the other Growers hmm.gif .

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