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 Anyone Noticed That European Links Went Bad?, Latency >400ms (Update Aft 2 Mths Unrsv)

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ajimix
post May 6 2024, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(huntx @ May 6 2024, 01:01 PM)
Actually you are getting what you paid for. Broadband Service Level Agreement is best-effort, there is no clause gurantee on network latency or packet loss.
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So European websites failing to load is what I paid for?
SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 6 2024, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(ajimix @ May 6 2024, 12:20 PM)
I don't get why enter into politics. As petpenyubobo says, we are mere consumers. We should have what we are paying. I'm paying fiber internet which should work when I load a website, regardless if the website is located in the USA, Europe or a remote island.

Right now all European websites and services are slow to load, specially in the afternoon/evening/night. I'm again complaining to TIME again today.

If we all complain, maybe they find out there is a problem and fix it
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Actually this whole submarine cable thing has geo-politics under its hood. We cannot deny the fact and should not evade the reasons behind it.

I know it's unpleasant to bring it up but we can't just pretend nothing is going on. The SEA-ME-WE cabling project openly rejected and booted China despite Huawei Marine initially winning the tender fairly to build and supply them the cabling project for them out of security threat concerns.

Should China, Central Asia and Russia provide similar response when these same people return and asked for participation in the Trans-Siberia project?

Don't just brush us away and ask this to be taken to RWI or suggest impossible things to your internet subscribers/consumers.
haya
post May 6 2024, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ May 6 2024, 12:11 PM)
You still don't get it do you?

When your rival already blatantly told you that you're a threat to be part of their global submarine cable build out and you don't want a backup plan to secure yourself in the event they blackmail you further in future by cutting you off entirely from the Indian Ocean route?

Do you think China and Russia is short of strategists that is unaware of this security threat?

They can't risk the entire Far East Asia region from being totally cut off from Europe by allowing other from pulling their legs.

About the high costs of securing this route, what response do you expect from China and Russia when previously you complained about them being a threat to  your submarine cable consortium?

Of course they've going to counter you with a "nice" quotation bill as a nice way to tell you to get lost when you were the first to initiate the cold treatment of accusing them as a threat of joining your consortium.

Ever heard the childhood lesson story about the The Fox and The Stork? You get what you ask for.

Also why the suggestion of me setting up my own ASN when I'm just a mere consumer? I'm blushed to be suggested such solution.
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One minute going through China and Central Asia is suppposedly the future to avoid being bargained by India and Middle East manipulating ME/South Asia routes to Europe through troubled Bengal and Middle East war regions.

Next Malaysian network providers are now apparently so powerful that they can tell China is "a threat to be part of their global submarine cable build out" and "being a threat to your submarine cable consortium".

Say that the evil rest of the world is " cutting off China entirely from the Indian Ocean route", but then India Asia Xpress (IAX) under construction by China Mobile and Reliance Jio, PEACE Cable being built by HMN, in the Indian Ocean region, after the geo-political shenanigans of SEA-ME-WE 6, so how?

This post has been edited by haya: May 6 2024, 03:52 PM
haya
post May 6 2024, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(ajimix @ May 6 2024, 12:20 PM)
I don't get why enter into politics. As petpenyubobo says, we are mere consumers. We should have what we are paying. I'm paying fiber internet which should work when I load a website, regardless if the website is located in the USA, Europe or a remote island.

Right now all European websites and services are slow to load, specially in the afternoon/evening/night. I'm again complaining to TIME again today.

If we all complain, maybe they find out there is a problem and fix it
*
I have no issue with people lodging formal complaints with the respective network providers on reduced performance to Europe from Malaysia. But I'm not sure how much they can do when it will take time for submarine cableships to get to the location

And then deal with things like this: https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2d5m1...me-we-5s-repair

No one is limited to access Europe based resources. I deal with workloads in the EU all the time. It is not 2006 when it was impossible to access after the Hengchun earthquake.

Increased latency because rerouting via East Asia and North America, yes. Increased packet loss, totally feel it. But as a "mere consumer" I have no control how AS4788 and AS9930 (who, let's be honest, just chucks all their packets down to Equinix Singapore for international transit to the wider internet) decides to deal with SEA-ME-WE 5 and AAE-1 being down.
huntx
post May 6 2024, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(ajimix @ May 6 2024, 01:02 PM)
So European websites failing to load is what I paid for?
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Well, it does load but just slower.

Between you and the european webserver, that are many components in between, and not all the time is the service provider fault.

The submarine cable is damaged and everyone is forced to fallback to existing capacity hence congestion happen.
There are huge chunk of traffic to be reroute, and to obtain additional capacity will not come at zero cost.

This is just like, you pay roadtax every year. During the festival time, you complain the road is jam and this is not what you pay for.
You expect the government to build a new highway from KL to your kampung in one or two days ?

enduser
post May 6 2024, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(huntx @ May 6 2024, 04:40 PM)
Well, it does load but just slower.

Between you and the european webserver, that are many components in between, and not all the time is the service provider fault.

The submarine cable is damaged and everyone is forced to fallback to existing capacity hence congestion happen.
There are huge chunk of traffic to be reroute, and to obtain additional capacity will not come at zero cost.

This is just like, you pay roadtax every year. During the festival time, you complain the road is jam and this is not what you pay for.
You expect the government to build a new highway from KL to your kampung in one or two days ?
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U hv the point & ajimix also hv the right as paying customer

What we need now is only clear & transparent communication by unifi to explain to their client what is happening, not very hard to do to act like a customer friendly enterprise.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 6 2024, 06:22 PM

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QUOTE(haya @ May 6 2024, 03:50 PM)
One minute going through China and Central Asia is suppposedly the future to avoid being bargained by India and Middle East  manipulating ME/South Asia routes to Europe through troubled Bengal and Middle East war regions.

Next Malaysian network providers are now apparently so powerful that they can tell China is "a threat to be part of their global submarine cable build out" and "being a threat to your submarine cable consortium".

Say that the evil rest of the world is " cutting off China entirely from the Indian Ocean route", but then India Asia Xpress (IAX) under construction by China Mobile and Reliance Jio, PEACE Cable being built by HMN, in the Indian Ocean region, after the geo-political shenanigans of SEA-ME-WE 6, so how?
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Since you asked so how,

The message is very clear from China and the Far East side to Bharat South Asia/ME. Try anything funny in future with any extortion we can equally respond to cut you out as well from Pacific side via landings on Changi East side Singapore going into the Far East/Pacific.

Tuas(West Side): Bharat/ME
Changi(East Side): China/Japan/Pacific

They won't be deterred because links to Europe and East Coast USA is secured.

As you can see with the charts now, there is almost no interruption to European-Far East Asia(FEA) to China cities including South Korea and Japan.

user posted image

Shanghai/Seoul/Tokyo are enjoying healthier latency to Europe than ASEAN now.

Links as you mentioned: India Asia Xpress (IAX), PEACE Cable are more benefiting to India accessing Far East Asia than the other way around. Easily it can be taken down but it'll not bring much issues to both Beijing and Tokyo because they have their direct links to both EUROPE and US secured via Trans-Siberia/Pacific route.

The ones suffering now is the Indo-China/ASEAN region with countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, SG, Thailand even as far as HK links to Europe is crawling.

SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 6 2024, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(haya @ May 6 2024, 04:00 PM)
I have no issue with people lodging formal complaints with the respective network providers on reduced performance to Europe from Malaysia. But I'm not sure how much they can do when it will take time for submarine cableships to get to the location

And then deal with things like this: https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2d5m1...me-we-5s-repair

No one is limited to access Europe based resources. I deal with workloads in the EU all the time. It is not 2006 when it was impossible to access after the Hengchun earthquake.

Increased latency because rerouting via East Asia and North America, yes. Increased packet loss, totally feel it. But as a "mere consumer" I have no control how AS4788 and AS9930 (who, let's be honest, just chucks all their packets down to Equinix Singapore for international transit to the wider internet) decides to deal with SEA-ME-WE 5 and AAE-1 being down.
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South Asia actually needs ASEAN more than the Far East needs them, one to get to the Pacific via SG transit to reach US while the other needs to reach EU.

Alternatively India will have to go through EU/Africa continent then only they can traverse across the Atlantic.

On the other hand Beijing/Seoul/Tokyo already has their Trans Siberia backup on bypass them to reach EU.

So yeah most affected regions will be ASEAN+HK+Taiwan which relies on a lot on the Indian Ocean links to reach EU.
dayojah
post May 6 2024, 09:37 PM

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I see 290ms ping to the UK, 5ms to a software site in Switzerland that actually downloads at modem speeds.
I have seen ISPs playing QOS games that give fast ping, while data is in a huge buffer queue
ChenKaiWen
post May 6 2024, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(dayojah @ May 6 2024, 09:37 PM)
I see 290ms ping to the UK, 5ms to a software site in Switzerland that actually downloads at modem speeds.
I have seen ISPs playing QOS games that give fast ping, while data is in a huge buffer queue
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My ping to raspberrypi.org is around 10-20ms.but the ping to downloads.raspberrypi.org is 280-320ms and 10-20kb/s while downloading. It’s just where the servers are hosted.
There is no way the ping to Switzerland is 5ms. The ping from Penang to KL with TIME is already 6-8ms.
haya
post May 7 2024, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(ChenKaiWen @ May 6 2024, 11:55 PM)
My ping to raspberrypi.org is around 10-20ms.but the ping to downloads.raspberrypi.org is 280-320ms and 10-20kb/s while downloading. It’s just where the servers are hosted.
There is no way the ping to Switzerland is 5ms. The ping from Penang to KL with TIME is already 6-8ms.
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That's because raspberrypi.org is behind Cloudflare:
CODE
traceroute to 172.67.36.98 (172.67.36.98), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 223.28.26.21 (223.28.26.21) 2.703 ms 1.749 ms 1.428 ms
2 223.28.26.153 (223.28.26.153) 1.551 ms 5.944 ms 2.088 ms MPLS Label=50089 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
3 223.28.43.29 (223.28.43.29) 1.796 ms 1.750 ms 2.111 ms MPLS Label=48701 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
4 223.28.52.58 (223.28.52.58) 1.523 ms 2.067 ms 2.239 ms
5 211.25.221.206 (211.25.221.206) 1.916 ms 2.190 ms 1.961 ms
6 172.67.36.98 (172.67.36.98) 1.640 ms 1.882 ms 1.613 ms


raspberrypi.org may be physically hosted in Switzerland, but from a end user perspective they hit the closest Cloudflare edge node.

While downloads.raspberrypi.org is still hosted in the UK/not behind a CDN/accelerator:
CODE
traceroute to 93.93.130.212 (93.93.130.212), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 223.28.26.21 (223.28.26.21) 8.777 ms 0.879 ms 0.650 ms
2 223.28.26.153 (223.28.26.153) 1.894 ms 1.998 ms 1.741 ms MPLS Label=53148 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
3 223.28.47.197 (223.28.47.197) 1.775 ms 1.825 ms 1.679 ms MPLS Label=54206 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
4 223.28.43.66 (223.28.43.66) 8.356 ms 6.554 ms 6.532 ms
5 93.93.133.16 (93.93.133.16) 269.474 ms 278.646 ms 275.087 ms
6 93.93.133.1 (93.93.133.1) 259.456 ms 293.486 ms 290.318 ms
7 93.93.133.7 (93.93.133.7) 280.220 ms 299.905 ms 298.519 ms
8 * * *
9 * * *
10 176.126.240.9 (176.126.240.9) 287.220 ms 297.101 ms 297.247 ms
11 93.93.130.212 (93.93.130.212) 322.112 ms 316.210 ms 323.109 ms

ChenKaiWen
post May 7 2024, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(haya @ May 7 2024, 08:11 AM)
That's because raspberrypi.org is behind Cloudflare:
CODE
traceroute to 172.67.36.98 (172.67.36.98), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 223.28.26.21 (223.28.26.21) 2.703 ms 1.749 ms 1.428 ms
2 223.28.26.153 (223.28.26.153) 1.551 ms 5.944 ms 2.088 ms MPLS Label=50089 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
3 223.28.43.29 (223.28.43.29) 1.796 ms 1.750 ms 2.111 ms MPLS Label=48701 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
4 223.28.52.58 (223.28.52.58) 1.523 ms 2.067 ms 2.239 ms
5 211.25.221.206 (211.25.221.206) 1.916 ms 2.190 ms 1.961 ms
6 172.67.36.98 (172.67.36.98) 1.640 ms 1.882 ms 1.613 ms


raspberrypi.org may be physically hosted in Switzerland, but from a end user perspective they hit the closest Cloudflare edge node.

While downloads.raspberrypi.org is still hosted in the UK/not behind a CDN/accelerator:
CODE
traceroute to 93.93.130.212 (93.93.130.212), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 223.28.26.21 (223.28.26.21) 8.777 ms 0.879 ms 0.650 ms
2 223.28.26.153 (223.28.26.153) 1.894 ms 1.998 ms 1.741 ms MPLS Label=53148 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
3 223.28.47.197 (223.28.47.197) 1.775 ms 1.825 ms 1.679 ms MPLS Label=54206 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
4 223.28.43.66 (223.28.43.66) 8.356 ms 6.554 ms 6.532 ms
5 93.93.133.16 (93.93.133.16) 269.474 ms 278.646 ms 275.087 ms
6 93.93.133.1 (93.93.133.1) 259.456 ms 293.486 ms 290.318 ms
7 93.93.133.7 (93.93.133.7) 280.220 ms 299.905 ms 298.519 ms
8 * * *
9 * * *
10 176.126.240.9 (176.126.240.9) 287.220 ms 297.101 ms 297.247 ms
11 93.93.130.212 (93.93.130.212) 322.112 ms 316.210 ms 323.109 ms

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Ah forgot about cloudflare.
ajimix
post May 8 2024, 10:25 AM

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One more day of suffering on European websites... we keep counting
SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 8 2024, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(ajimix @ May 8 2024, 10:25 AM)
One more day of suffering on European websites... we keep counting
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Last weekend days back someone said from insiders need another 10-13 days. That's another 2 weeks. We shall see at the end of next week. smile.gif
JLA
post May 11 2024, 09:48 AM

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TeleYemen has two branches, one in Aden under control of the internationally recognized Yemeni government, and the other in Sanaa under the control of the Houthi. The Yemeni government refused to cooperate with the Houthi-linked part of TeleYemen associated with the AAE-1 cable consortium

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/middle_eas...d-13781436.html
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this is interesting
Houthis backed by china cut AAE-1 china cable

The Asia-Africa-Europe-1 cable system, better known as AAE-1, has been officially launched, with services commencing from Europe to the Far East, said the AAE-1 consortium, which coordinates efforts to complete the project. China Unicom is a key member of the alliance.




SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 11 2024, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(JLA @ May 11 2024, 09:48 AM)
TeleYemen has two branches, one in Aden under control of the internationally recognized Yemeni government, and the other in Sanaa under the control of the Houthi. The Yemeni government refused to cooperate with the Houthi-linked part of TeleYemen associated with the AAE-1 cable consortium

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/middle_eas...d-13781436.html
----
this is interesting
Houthis backed by china cut AAE-1 china  cable

The Asia-Africa-Europe-1 cable system, better known as AAE-1, has been officially launched, with services commencing from Europe to the Far East, said the AAE-1 consortium, which coordinates efforts to complete the project. China Unicom is a key member of the alliance.
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Don't see a strategic reason for China to do this since even now with the cable severed, the Far East Asia(FEA) links to Europe is still enjoying good connectivity.

If they wanted to sabotage, the links they'd cut off the links linking South Asia/ME to Europe instead that'll bring even a far worst impact. They could also cut off East side of the cables that links Pacific side with their dominance over the South China Sea via East Singapore Changi side.

All things considered the ones who are victims now are South East Asia which is so dependent on the route Indian Ocean/ME route to Europe. There is also no way for ME/South Asia to get to Japan/Korea/HK other than to take the "other" way round the globe via Africa-Atlantic Ocean-Pacific Ocean to reach FEA.

For China/S.Korea/Japan, they've safeguarded their route to EU & America. Cutting off the Indian Ocean Route will only impact their South Asia/Africa traffic which is insignificant compared to the earlier destinations.
rezzorix
post May 11 2024, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(ajimix @ May 6 2024, 12:20 PM)
I don't get why enter into politics.


Keyboard warriors do Keyboard warrior things. Thats why 🫣🤣
heLL_bOy
post May 11 2024, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 27 2024, 03:17 PM)
RETN's TransKZ Terrestrial Land Based Cable Network - Dostyk-HK

user posted image

TEA-Trans East Asia Europe Terrestrial Cable

user posted image

So what really happened to the SEA-ME-WE 5 cable and AAE-1 cable which controls >80% of ASEAN-Europe region traffic? Shark bitten? So coincident?
It's a week now, nothing much about how the incident occurred and no official press release and its details.

While we allow this risks of being bargained by India and Middle East?  Nope I don't think so.

Russia, China and Central Asia is proven more reliable route to gain access into Western Europe.

Can't risk silly excuses about shark attacking cables, wrongly lowered anchors by ships and octopus messing with the cables nonsense. Faster retrieval and repairs too.
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Normal ISP or provider won't using this route due the pricing which cost alot.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 16 2024, 03:38 PM

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There's already some improvements observed today and European links are slowly recovering.

Almost back to normal.

Stay tuned.
rezzorix
post May 16 2024, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ May 16 2024, 03:38 PM)
There's already some improvements observed today and European links are slowly recovering.

Almost back to normal.

Stay tuned.
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Can you back that statement up with data?

Because my constantly running smokeping tells otherwise (at least for TIME).

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