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 Price wars of EV has started, How will it end up?

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TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 18 2024, 12:34 AM

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https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...his-year/129243


Rafizi confirms Malaysia will go ahead with cutting down on petrol subsidies this year


Good heavens
hksgmy
post Apr 18 2024, 05:52 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Apr 18 2024, 12:34 AM)
https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...his-year/129243
Rafizi confirms Malaysia will go ahead with cutting down on petrol subsidies this year
Good heavens
*
Maybe that’ll reverse the price drops of evs?
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 18 2024, 06:48 AM

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QUOTE(hksgmy @ Apr 18 2024, 05:52 AM)
Maybe that’ll reverse the price drops of evs?
*
Maybe, but then maybe not, depends on how gradual the subisdy rationalization works, if follow market straightaway , a big jump from RM2.05 (Ron 95) to RM3.38 per L, then it will cause some knee jerk reaction

But then again, some still wait for EV road tax announcement due by this month end
812799
post Apr 18 2024, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(hksgmy @ Apr 18 2024, 05:52 AM)
Maybe that’ll reverse the price drops of evs?
*
price drop based on manufacturer, our government's move hardly make an impact on global level
lowpro
post Apr 18 2024, 09:23 AM

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I believe that EV companies do have products that can be sold sub RM100k but the Govt's current protection of P1 and P2 pushes the EV prices to minimum RM100k at the moment. Let's see just how competitive P1 and P2's EV cars are once they come out next year (or will they even make it on time?). For now we have no idea which price segment they're looking at...Axia level? Bezza level? Persona? S70? It is a total dark horse for now. With fuel prices confirmed to go up, the EV market is bound to look attractive but the Govt should lower the price threshold for foreign EV brands that may even do a better job then P1 and P2. Perhaps from RM60k and above? Competition is always good for the consumer.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 18 2024, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(lowpro @ Apr 18 2024, 09:23 AM)
I believe that EV companies do have products that can be sold sub RM100k but the Govt's current protection of P1 and P2 pushes the EV prices to minimum RM100k at the moment. Let's see just how competitive P1 and P2's EV cars are once they come out next year (or will they even make it on time?). For now we have no idea which price segment they're looking at...Axia level? Bezza level? Persona? S70? It is a total dark horse for now. With fuel prices confirmed to go up, the EV market is bound to look attractive but the Govt should lower the price threshold for foreign EV brands that may even do a better job then P1 and P2. Perhaps from RM60k and above? Competition is always good for the consumer.
*
P2 say by end of next year launch. In what form and model not sure but I believe the battery is from CATL of China .

https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2022/20221111-2.html

Delay? Maybe maybe not , I have no confidence with P2 btw.

If they want to even fight above 100k pricing, let them come and get buried. Japanese are not known as risk takers , they are usually very risk adverse , conservative , play safe and sound. Boring but sometimes boring has fans.

P1 already have small EV so I think they may be able to stay on schedule unless they are more driven by greed since making more dough with Smart and Volvo.

Zeekr? We are not the target market is what I have heard.

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Apr 18 2024, 10:44 AM
littlefire
post Apr 18 2024, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(lowpro @ Apr 18 2024, 10:23 AM)
I believe that EV companies do have products that can be sold sub RM100k but the Govt's current protection of P1 and P2 pushes the EV prices to minimum RM100k at the moment. Let's see just how competitive P1 and P2's EV cars are once they come out next year (or will they even make it on time?). For now we have no idea which price segment they're looking at...Axia level? Bezza level? Persona? S70? It is a total dark horse for now. With fuel prices confirmed to go up, the EV market is bound to look attractive but the Govt should lower the price threshold for foreign EV brands that may even do a better job then P1 and P2. Perhaps from RM60k and above? Competition is always good for the consumer.
*
If fuel price went up high and P1 & P2 unable to come out EV in time, people will complain and Goverment will also need to open up the market. Is matter of time before sub 100k EV will flood the market.
dwRK
post Apr 18 2024, 11:38 AM

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waiting for byd seagull @ 60k biggrin.gif

TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 21 2024, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(littlefire @ Apr 18 2024, 10:46 AM)
If fuel price went up high and P1 & P2 unable to come out EV in time, people will complain and Goverment will also need to open up the market. Is matter of time before sub 100k EV will flood the market.
*
So few things need to happens:

1. Protect still or open up. I think protect will go on especially

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2023/10/...omotive-hub-nev

You support me, I support u lah, fair mah.


2. Fuel and body rationalization , how it will play out

This one I have no crystal ball, really can't tell


3. Price wars will lead to many unforseen changes

Everyone knows Chinese is leading the EV onslaught even Chinese made Tesla and Bimmer, etc.

But many have devised to fight back, I am particularly interested to see how Honda and Nissan will fight back, because what works out for them in China or Europe and USA may be the next big change that will comes South East Asian way. their allegiance is the most promising thing to watch especially Honda

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/chinese-evs-winni...-090037702.html

With Stellantis launching Leapmotor as affordable EV in Malaysia,
(Who would have thought of that) , affordablenow has a new meaning beyond P1 and P2

https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/04/stellan...dable-ev-brand/
littlefire
post Apr 22 2024, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Apr 21 2024, 11:46 AM)

2. Fuel and body rationalization , how it will play out

This one I have no crystal ball, really can't tell
This 1 cannot run away already, just how much they gonna remove. As our government debt is too high and a big pie of the debt is due to fuel subsidies.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 22 2024, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(littlefire @ Apr 22 2024, 10:23 AM)
This 1 cannot run away already, just how much they gonna remove. As our government debt is too high and a big pie of the debt is due to fuel subsidies.
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Not saying can run away, but how it will roll out , whether gradual or drastic and how targetted , who will still get subsidized, etc. etc.
littlefire
post Apr 22 2024, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Apr 22 2024, 11:26 AM)
Not saying can run away, but how it will roll out , whether gradual or drastic and how targetted , who will still get subsidized, etc. etc.
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With the PADU system set up, is very obvious will be individual. Those who don't believe will suffer later unless they are T20.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 22 2024, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(littlefire @ Apr 22 2024, 10:29 AM)
With the PADU system set up, is very obvious will be individual. Those who don't believe will suffer later unless they are T20.
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A thing about PADU is it refers to net disposable household income, so it is not just individual per se

https://thesun.my/local_news/padu-concerns-...erts-LN11941794


littlefire
post Apr 22 2024, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Apr 22 2024, 11:46 AM)
A thing about PADU is it refers to net disposable household income, so it is not just individual per se

https://thesun.my/local_news/padu-concerns-...erts-LN11941794
*
Bro, you think everyone got household income? I & many others also just single/individual only
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 22 2024, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(littlefire @ Apr 22 2024, 10:53 AM)
Bro, you think everyone got household income? I & many others also just single/individual only
*
I think you get me wrong. PADU is a all encompassing database that capture not just individual income, it capture where you stay, what is your household expenses, etc.

It capture not just single person, also married , and those that have children. All encompassing.

Also it does not fall under B40, M40 and T20 categorization any more

So please get your facts right

When I say I have no crystal ball to tell the effect of subsidy rationalization I am not saying I don't believe it will come, I am saying I don't know how it will come out, how affected everyone will be, who will truly be exempted because :

The Economy ministry (Rafizi's ministry)'s statement that every citizen should be registered regardless of their financial status.

The Ministry has said that the T20 group of top earners can also be eligible for subsidies as long as they are registered.

Confused? I am not the only one

https://www.malaysianow.com/news/2024/03/30...ee-tells-rafizi


littlefire
post Apr 22 2024, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Apr 22 2024, 12:06 PM)
I think you get me wrong. PADU is a all encompassing database that capture not just individual income, it capture where you stay, what is your household expenses, etc.

It capture not just single person, also married , and those that have children. All encompassing.

Also it does not fall under B40, M40 and T20 categorization  any more

So please get your facts right

When I say I have no crystal ball to tell the effect of subsidy rationalization I am not saying I don't believe it will come, I am saying I don't know how it will come out, how affected everyone will be, who will truly be exempted because :

The Economy ministry (Rafizi's ministry)'s statement that every citizen should be registered regardless of their financial status.

The Ministry has said that the T20 group of top earners can also be eligible for subsidies as long as they are registered.

Confused? I am not the only one

https://www.malaysianow.com/news/2024/03/30...ee-tells-rafizi
*
Easy said in the end, the subsides money will be hand in to individual not into petrol sellers. No need come out all these confusing statements from those politicians.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 23 2024, 12:15 AM

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QUOTE(littlefire @ Apr 22 2024, 01:55 PM)
Easy said in the end, the subsides money will be hand in to individual not into petrol sellers. No need come out all these confusing statements from those politicians.
*
doh.gif

The same politician is your Minister, the confusing statement is made by the Minister

https://thesun.my/cerita/rafizi-new-approac...dies-OB10995748

QUOTE
PUTRAJAYA: An approach using household net disposable income metrics will be implemented in January next year (2024) as an economic structuring measure for a more focused distribution of targeted subsidies, said Economy Minister Rafizi Ramli (pix).

He said the current approach which is more focused on B40, M40 and T20 income does not really give a true picture where household disposable income is concerned when compared from one household to another, covering the number of dependent children and individual location.

Rafizi said this new approach will be integrated with socioeconomic database, Pangkalan Data Utama (PADU) announced by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim recently as an effort to combine socio-economic information for every household in the country to streamline the implementation of targeted subsidies.

“Once we get to that level (household net disposable income), we will get a clearer picture of the net disposable income’s comparability for households, and that will allow us to refine any government programmes and target subsidies accordingly,“ he said in a press conference here today.

Asked if the targeted subsidy distribution also covers the RON95 fuel subsidy, he said the government will focus on the electricity and diesel subsidy components that have been announced and monitor their effectiveness first before announcing any decision on the RON95 subsidy.

“When we start switching to RON95, of course the consideration is bigger, involving more people and families from each household. That’s why we will ensure PADU is available by 2024 and any decision on how to target RON95 can be made easily,“ he said.


Tell me tell me tell me, how many times he said Household, and how many time he said Individual?

So why are you still talking about individual?

And then he said classification of B40, M40, T20 will be abolished, right?

https://www.astroawani.com/berita-malaysia/...4-rafizi-423897

Then if abolished, why he still said, “T20 could also be eligible for subsidies when they register for PADU” - Ministry of Economic Affairs

https://technave.com/gadget/T20-could-also-...airs-38011.html

And then his final word is "No poetry for today. It's up to you guys. You want to register, go ahead. If you don't want to register, then all the best in your Raya celebrations,"
https://www.malaysianow.com/news/2024/04/03...ign-up-for-padu

Can you analyze all these and predict what will happen? shakehead.gif shocking.gif


TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 24 2024, 08:30 AM

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https://www.nst.com.my/news-cars-bikes-truc...y-big-dividends

China's EV strategy of going small and cheap to pay big dividends in Asia

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TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 24 2024, 10:49 AM

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https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/cars/electri...-iea/index.html


The electric car revolution is on track, says IEA



Global electric vehicle sales are set to rise by more than a fifth to reach 17 million this year, powered by drivers in China, according to the International Energy Agency.

In a report Tuesday, the IEA projected that “surging demand” for EVs over the next decade was set “to remake the global auto industry and significantly reduce oil consumption for road transport.”

It expects half of all cars sold globally to be electric by 2035, up from more than one in five this year, provided charging infrastructure keeps pace. The IEA includes battery electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles in its definition of EVs...

...The agency’s bullish long-term outlook for EVs — based on current government policies — comes just days after the world’s biggest battery EV maker Tesla slashed its prices in major markets to counter declining sales and growing competition from Chinese upstarts and established carmakers.

Recent negative headlines about slowing EV penetration are out of step with positive global trends, according to IEA executive director Fatih Birol. The data “does not at all show a reverse of the growth of electric cars. It shows an extremely robust increase of global electric car sales,” he told reporters Tuesday.

The growth is not driven just by Chinese buyers. The number of new battery electric cars sold in the European Union rose almost 4% in the first quarter of this year compared with the same period in 2023, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association.

In a statement, Birol said: “Rather than tapering off, the global EV revolution appears to be gearing up for a new phase of growth.”

Despite the upbeat trends, EV makers are grappling with slim profit margins, squeezed by price wars as competition heats....






TSEnergyAnalyst
post Apr 24 2024, 11:24 AM

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https://www.wapcar.my/news/bev-price-wars-a...-industry-78960

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...oming-year.html


Even when price is cheap, economy affects repayment ability.

So buy what u can afford and able to pay, folks

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Apr 24 2024, 11:25 AM

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