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 Some advice on system setup and cooling, 7950x with NZXT KRAKEN 360 and 128GB RAM

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lolzcalvin
post Feb 8 2024, 08:23 PM

shibe in predicament
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QUOTE(sakaic @ Feb 5 2024, 01:17 AM)
Hi guys,

I used to build PCs and OC them etc but last time I did that was in the mid 2000s. Think AMD Barton/Throughbred time. Anyway, recently at work needed a much more powerful workstation for crunching large amounts of data and the gaming laptops we had in the office were simply not cutting any more. So I thought I could just wing it and put together a system to do the data crunching. A rough outline of the build is

CPU : 7950X
MB : ASROCK X670E PRO
GPU : ASUS RTX4070Ti
SSD 1 : ACER Predator 1TB PCIE4
SSD 2 : ACER Predator 2TB PCIE4
Casing : NZXT H9 Flow
RAM : KINGSTON Fury Beast RGB 64GB (32x2) x 2
PSU : ASUS 1200W
CPU Cooler : NZXT Kraken 360 RGB Black

The PC works out of the box and I am aware of the fundamental behaviour of the newer CPUs where they push power and clock speeds till hit max temp then throttle back but there are a few things that I am unsatisfied about. Hoping to get some pointers here

1) Its not the temperature of the CPU that bothers me, in fact I am expecting it to hit the 90+ deg C level but its how fast it reaches it. I tied the cooler fans and pump speed to the CPU temp so basically once its more than 60 deg C, the fans and pump are running at full tilt. Coolant temp never exceeds 32 deg C but the CPU reaches 90 in a very short time (like not more than 10 seconds). This happens only when I am crunching data. Could it be due to insufficient pressure between the pump and IHS? Or insufficient thermal paste? I just left whatever the came with the cooler on it and just used it.

2) I tried using the Ryzen master to try to come up with a profile. It came up with a -40 profile but once applied, the system would never boot up. So far I used a less aggressive number like -10 and its stable so far. I find that the temps still rocket to 90+ but just not so fast and it can hold all the cores at about 5.450 GHz about 50% longer. is there a detailed guide on how the voltages and clocks relate to each other. Its so confusing relative to 20 years before where it was just FSB x multiplier

3) I have all the RAM running but I can never get it past 4000 MT/s. I know I made the mistake of not making sure the RAM was AMD expo certified. Is it possible to manually push the 4 sticks to at least 5200 speeds?

Just hoping for tips for troubleshooting and if possible any guides for modern system overclocking/tuning. I prefer PDFs to YT videos (old school mah)
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on 3)
ur stressing the IMC (memory controller) with 4 sticks of double sided (dual rank) RAM, therefore it doesn't end well, and never ends well. when people wanna run RAM at high MT/s with good timings, they run it on a 2-slot DIMM motherboard (like Asus Maximus Apex for Intel CPUs). keyword is 2-slot, means 2 RAM sticks only, easy to hit high freq, because putting all 4 sticks into the 4 DIMM slots is really stressful for the IMC. don't ever consider trying to run them at 1:1 ratio (UCLK:MCLK) also lol
IMC is always hit or miss, it's another round of silicon lottery. but still, it's nearly impossible to drive a 4 stick dual rank RAM at even close to full speed, EXPO certified or not, golden IMC or not
lolzcalvin
post May 21 2024, 07:44 PM

shibe in predicament
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From: 75°26'11.6"S, 136°16'16.0"E


QUOTE(sakaic @ May 20 2024, 04:56 PM)
Thermal paste OK?
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it may be uneven, but if after u reapplied the TIM and properly sat the pump, and still getting same variance between the coolant temp and CPU temp during load, then perhaps there's nothing wrong at all. the pump itself seems to be working also as indicated from the rpm numbers.
as a reference, my coolant temp is always above 30°C. this is the temp at ~33°C ambient. but 13900K is a hot chip so not an apple to apple comparison.
user posted image

THAT being said, the coolant temp of 29°C,
1. how long did u do the load test?
2. what kind of load ur giving to the CPU to reach 95c?
3. what's ur room temp? what's the radiator orientation (front mounted, top mounted etc)?

and since 95°C is acceptable for 7950X as it's designed that way, the performance scaling is not exactly throttling performance down when it reaches 95, but it targets 95 and scale the performance from there.
for example, if u have shit cooler, it shoots up to 95°C, and u may be getting 4.5GHz on all core load.
if u have good cooler, it still shoots up to 95°C, but u are now getting a better frequency on all core load, say 5.1GHz.

so what is the scaling look like on ur end when u stress all the threads? u mentioned that it can sustain 5.4GHz during all core load.

my initial thinking is that we might be overthinking. it looks like it's working just fine. CPU shooting up to 90+°C immediately is very normal in these few generations. even older generations if u idle at 30°C, and started a heavy load, the temp would shoot to 70-80°C under a few seconds.
lolzcalvin
post May 21 2024, 10:27 PM

shibe in predicament
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Senior Member
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Joined: Mar 2014
From: 75°26'11.6"S, 136°16'16.0"E


QUOTE(sakaic @ May 21 2024, 09:03 PM)
Let me answer one by one

1) The load is typically at least 1-2 hours long
2) It is mostly doing what is the equivalent to render work. Other times it's doing watershed and flooding simulations
3) that data was captured with the CPU facing a 2hp AC unit set to 25°C and the radiator is top mounted with fans blowing out

Cooler is a nzxt kraken z73. Like I said, I am well aware that the CPUs are set to run up to 95 but what I am not used to is the massive delta between the coolant temp and CPU temp. Is it normal for the temperature difference to be so large? I am worried there is a problem with the heat block/pump module that it's not sucking up and transferring heat to the water.
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during load, u say it barely reaches 32°C right? the previous 29°C coolant temp was also 1-2 hours long load? if that's the case then it doesn't seem the heat is transferred properly, or the coolant in the AIO is magical.
what TIM r u using? Kryonaut? PTM7950?

there may still be a chance the contact between the pump and ur CPU is uneven, or there's a problem with the paste (which is unusual).
if pump malfunctions, can be easily tested by touching the 2 tubes to ur radiator if u suspect the rpm number is a lie. if one is hotter than the other then there ain't got no malfunction.

if ur reseating the pump, wipe the thermal paste away with alcohol pad then reapply it, preferably stuffs like Noctua NT-H2, Honeywell PTM7950, Corsair XTM70 etc. can use Kryonaut if u have it, just that it has issues of pumping out down the road after a while, essentially degrading performance.
no need to apply too much, more thermal paste does not equate to better heat transfer. better yet just make a fine thin layer on the IHS with a spreader.
when u mount ur pump make sure to put even pressure to all 4 corners, criss-cross pattern (top-left -> bottom-right -> top-right -> bottom-left and repeat). using ur screwdriver, just fasten until ur 2 fingers turning the screwdriver no longer has the force to turn the screw on all 4 corners.
then it's time to actually tighten it, again criss-cross pattern, with even revolution. like spin 3 times on each side and repeat.
but don't overtighten it to the point u have a hard time turning the screws with ur wrist. just tighten them to the point of the force of ur wrist (not the force of ur arm). when it feels like it's stopping, just stop.

then recheck the coolant temp during load, see how slow or fast it passes 30°C


lolzcalvin
post May 22 2024, 02:19 PM

shibe in predicament
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Senior Member
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Joined: Mar 2014
From: 75°26'11.6"S, 136°16'16.0"E


QUOTE(sakaic @ May 22 2024, 01:06 AM)
The CPU will slowly increase the clock speed to about 5.2 - 5.5GHz and when it reaches 95°C then the clock speeds drop to around 4.8 and then the cycle starts again. Up then down then up then down. I was hoping to slow down this cyclic behaviour by improving cooling so that it will stay at higher clock speeds longer.
At first I used the TIM that came with the AIO. Then I tried changing the mounting position by rotating it 90° so that the pipes come out from the side and not the bottom. When I did that, I switched to Cooler Master Mastergel Pro V2 as I had some left over. I am actually interested to try the PTM7950 but worried buying fake stuff. Any recomendded sources?
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legitimate PTM7950 is hard to find because a seller needs to buy them in bulk from honeywell instead of 1pc. a lot ppl say the pads sourced from china are legit but many actually couldn't tell whether it's legit or not other than the pads do actually reduce temps like what any pad would've done.
I know MODDIY and LTT store sell legit PTM7950 sourced directly from honeywell USA but they're NA stores so not much choice over here. however I notice that both stores are selling them at 0.25mm thickness and have emphasized as such. and yes, they're more expensive than aliexpress' counterparts.

if u feel like it's risky then go for safer route such as Noctua NT-H2 which is better than PTM7950 (yes u didn't hear that wrong)
if sked NT-H2 also fake then I show u one of the legitimate stores that's selling it

This post has been edited by lolzcalvin: May 22 2024, 02:23 PM

 

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