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 Water Heater (MCB and brands)

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TSFyChai
post Dec 28 2023, 11:57 AM, updated 2y ago

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1) Hi, I would like to change new water heater, I'm confusing to choose either Joven, Alpha, Rubine or Centon. Salesman keep on approach me Alpha and said others brands not secure like Alpha.

What I concern is which DC pump more powerful cause my water pressure bit low and I going to take rain shower series.


2) Lets say if I take 42kw heater, do I need to change MCB to 25mA? I had read previous post which advise to use 25mA based on Suruhanjaya Tenaga's guideline, but some of them tell me 10mA is enough for that. May I know which one is correct?


Appreciate for your advise.

This post has been edited by FyChai: Dec 28 2023, 12:00 PM
TSFyChai
post Dec 28 2023, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Dec 28 2023, 12:01 PM)
The 25mA and 10mA is the trigger point when the MCB tripped to protect people from electrocution. So, the 10mA is recommended to be installed at water heater by TNB.

The water heater circuit breaker is additional to the house MCB.
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Sorry I'm lost, I'm using C16 as photo, does it too high or low for the 42 kwh water heater? C16 mean for 16A right? ChatGPT ask me to get C25, salesman said C16 ok for it, so confusing. Appreciate for your reply.

user posted image
TSFyChai
post Dec 28 2023, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(YoungMan @ Dec 28 2023, 09:31 PM)
I had read that post, inside said 25A MCB RCB, but other post said 10mA, so which one should I use? C10 or C25?
TSFyChai
post Dec 29 2023, 12:17 AM

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A

This post has been edited by FyChai: Dec 29 2023, 12:20 AM
TSFyChai
post Dec 29 2023, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Dec 29 2023, 12:25 AM)
C16 OK for 3300W WH.
4200W WH pls run a new line (electrician required) with 6mmsq cable else you gonna burn down ur hse. Of coz salesman everything can, burn also not his place
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Do you mean run from DB to water heater?
The water heater at 1st floor, need to hack a lot if run a new line, any other way can do please?

This post has been edited by FyChai: Dec 29 2023, 08:54 AM
TSFyChai
post Dec 29 2023, 08:37 AM

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QUOTE(Selene Yeo @ Dec 29 2023, 12:29 AM)
Bathrooms with extremely low water pressure usually have issue turning on the water heaters, as most water heaters use flow switch to turn on (at minimum consistently maybe around 2 litres / minute water flow, and water heater's heating element and built-in pump might not turn on if water flow is lower than that).

But I saw CENTON has a newly launched instant water heater (Atlantis range, shown below) with a Pump Activator function, which when the button is pressed, it will manually jump starts only the built-in pump to increase water flow enough for the flow switch to turn on the water heater. I think this function should be more important for you. Here is the Shopee link if u need it - Shower Rail / Rainshower

user posted image

I suggest u to only go for rainshower instant water heater if your original water flow is already sufficient, since built-in pump, regardless of whichever brand u buy, won't cater enough water pressure for your rainshower if your original water pressure is already low.

If rainshower is a must and your bathroom's water pressure is low, I suggest u to install those external booster pump like Grundfos instead (Shopee link here).
user posted image

Table above and below is taken from Suruhanjaya Tenaga's guideline. So basically for instant water heaters (common ones are from 3.6kW to 4.5kW), they will require the MCBs / RCDs to be 25A rated with 10mA sensitivity (for appliances installed in wet areas). 25A is the current rating (In), 10mA is the trip sensitivity.

In conclusion, I think u will need a 25A rated current, 10mA sensitivity, double pole (cut live and neutral) RCD. Experts, please correct me if I am wrong.

user posted image
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Currently I'm using Alpha S200EP with AC pump, the water from shower head can spray 4 feet height, I'm ok woth it, but not sure if DC pump suitable. My house is 20 years old, scaring install external pump from water tank will burst the piping joint.

This post has been edited by FyChai: Dec 29 2023, 08:53 AM
TSFyChai
post Dec 29 2023, 08:52 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Dec 29 2023, 12:30 AM)
Please do not confuse between RCD and MCB.

MCB you have now is a C16 to safely allow up to 16A LOAD.

RCD which you don't have now, and you will need, is a 10mA RCD rated to sense up to 25A, this is the bestest protection -
https://shopee.com.my/ABB-F202-25-0.01-ELCB...1856.9133931062

or this also can, if budget is an issue
https://shopee.com.my/Schneider-Easy9-25A-2...4033.3943044744

Failure to install a proper 10mA RCD will lead to unwanted outcome, usually death.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...oroners-inquiry
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ed-in-bathroom/

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Since we're here,
your existing installation is totally illegal, and is useless for human life protection.

3.5 RCDs and Direct Contact Shock Protection
The use of RCDs with rated residual operating current of 30mA or less are recognised as
additional protection against direct contact shock. Regulation 415.1.1 refers.
Direct contact shock is the result of persons or livestock inadvertently making contact with
normally live parts with one part of the body and, at the same time, making contact with
earth potential with another part of the body. Under these circumstances, the resulting
electric shock will be at full mains potential and the actual current flowing to earth will be
of the order 230mA because of the relatively high body impedance involved. It has already
been shown in Section 2.3 that currents as low as 40/50mA can result in electrocution.

Read more here https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=106857006
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The DB is ori set from developer, I just add on 3 MCB on left hand side for dry and wet kitchen. May I know is that call MCCB for my current 63A breaker? If I change to 100mA, do I need to upgrade or remain 63A?




user posted image

As per pic above, do I need to place 1 RCB for every floor? Or just for the cable which use for water heater?



Sorry lots of questions, i need more knowledge before asking a electrician to visit again. Previous electrician came to check and never mention about the 300mA of breaker and RCB until I find it myself.


TSFyChai
post Dec 29 2023, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Dec 29 2023, 12:53 PM)
The quality of components used are questionable if they already installed C16 MCB.

Your scope of work:

change the mains (entire house) RCD to 30mA.
install a new 10mA RCD for EACH WH (water heater) circuit.

You do not need a RCD for every floor.
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user posted image
Do you mean this one change to 30mA? Remain 63A?
May I know what type of breaker is this? RCCB?

This post has been edited by FyChai: Dec 29 2023, 03:04 PM
TSFyChai
post Dec 30 2023, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Dec 29 2023, 06:31 PM)
Correct. Replace like for like since you have 63A three phase supply.
This is a RCD. The spec is 4P 63A 30mA (0.03A).
Estimated barang only- RM2xx for a good one from ABB/Hager.

https://shopee.com.my/ABB-FH204-63A-4P-300m...2787.3248905327
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OK, thanks for your explanation.

1) I realise the Main MCB only C32, its it enough? Weird that my RCCB higher Amp than Main MCB. Do I need to upgrade also?

2) I checked online 3 phase should be 100A, any way to know my house is 63A or 100A supply?

3) Wireman ask me to change aircond and kitchen MCB to 32A, but i checked aircond for 1HP is 8A, it should be sufficient for current MCB (16A) right? Do I need to upgrade it also?

4) Since I'm upgrade MCB of water heater to 25A and RCD needed, do you think I just buy the RCBO 25A 10mA better?

5) My house area has thunderbolt fallen history, My house get hit once before and the outdoor TNB cable spoiled. Will it easily trip If I use 30mA for main RCCB?


Since I'm hiring wireman to upgrade it, hope can setup the DB as good as possible, technician cost quite expensive.

This post has been edited by FyChai: Dec 30 2023, 10:14 PM


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