I am selling my house to a buyer.

when i bought the property from developer previously, other than signing the SPA, i also signed the Deed of Mutual Covenant.

if I sell my house now, does the buyer needs to also sign this document with the current resident commitee?

my house is individual title.

Valid question. I would like to know also. However I thk that agreement is between developer and onwer. Maybe RA has to come up with an agreement as well.

yeah. i want to know the answer urgently. becos i am signing SPA next week.

nevertheless, Deed of Mutual Covenant this kind of document also need to go thru lawyer to do and get stamped eventually rite? so if really needs to sign such document, meaning also need to pay extra lawyer fee for this document for buyer?

as a seller, once i sold the house, i dun think i will be liable for anything also rite even the document was signed by me previously? at most the buyer later does not pay the maintenance, he/she will be the one kena banned for entering via resident lane?

This post has been edited by westlife: Oct 8 2023, 06:02 PM

Your property is a strata title similar to a highrise.

Subsequent buyers are bound by the original dmc whether he choose to sign or otherwise.

no. mine is a individual title despite that the developers asked to sign this, i recalled they said within 5 years (could not remember exactly) or something cannot change the exterior or something only.

my precint ppl had been modifying the exterior of the house including extending the house (ours are cluster house with 10 feet of land).

so now i no need to bother whether he signs or not rite? not my business after the house is sold anyway..

Maintenance fee is tag to the property and not owner. Same with utilities.

The new buyer need to know the contents spelled in the DMC, you only need to enclosed it together with the SPA when selling it away. There is no need to sign a new deed with the MC because the original DMC has become part of the house rules enforceable by laws. In the very old units, the car park allocation was mentioned inside DMC & not inside SPA, hence you need to enclose the DMC whenever you are selling away your strata unit. Also, the rules within DMC can be amended by the elected MC if they are able to gather sufficient quorum during the AGM. The DMC need to be read together with the latest amended house rules submitted & approved by COB.

Jadehill, twi palm, ecohill, all same as your landed property, individual title and owner "voluntarily" enter into DMA to appoint management office, and all owners signed the DMA to ensure all rules are enforceable.

So yes, new buyer must sign the DMA also if not you will be continually liable if he move in and breach any rule.

To my surprise the lawyer who draft your SPA didn't aware of this. They should advise you to first inform the management office to on how to transfer the DMA to new buyer.

Call your lawyer tomorrow. By right you should have checked with your management office before you sell your house. For the DMA I signed, it clearly stated I must check with management office to let new buyer to signthe DMA in order to relieve myself from it.

Management office should have standard template to follow. Since it is just a contract without value involve, usually stamp at nominal value.

But anyway, it depend on how your DMC is drafted, it should have a clause to show on what need to be done to relieve yourself from the contract when you sell the house.

This post has been edited by Jingle91: Oct 8 2023, 07:39 PM

It depend on how is your DMC drafted last time, the DMC mean you agreed to be binded with all the clauses in it. So if it stated clearly you as seller need to take initiative to inform office, then you have to inform office and get new buyer to sign DMA with management office.

If the DMC stated the liabilities by default apply to new owner, then you are safe. When the new owner need to apply access card/rfid, he will learn all these house rules. (Which I seldom see this kind of arrangement, all need to sign new document so original owner can be fully remove from dmc)

The owner of individual title with DMC can still renovate the exterior of the house, provided it is approved by JMB. Like jadehill, need to follow color code and requirements of office.

This post has been edited by Jingle91: Oct 8 2023, 07:50 PM

individual got DMC? usually strata only

yes, i know. but it indeed had it. but if i recalled correctly, it was the first 3 or 5 years cannot modify the exterior, subsequently can. unlike strata title that is forever cannot or?

all my neighbours had started to extend/modify the exterior after 3 to 5 years which i can notice by now also. i had stayed here for 9 years+..

Who runs the community now ? Residents Association ? Developer ? 'JMB' ?

AGM conducted ? Accounts presented ?

not under developer anymore. residents here formed the committee to manage after 1 year or so. AGM conducted regularly... (i never attend any AGM as a owner here before seriously)

and during that time, there were cases reported that the previous president misused the fund etc... and it even has a period where the AGM were discussing about the worst case scenario, our precinct here the gated and guarded may be removed if cannot get more than dun know how many percent of residents support or so. although i did not attend any of the AGM before, becos they always hold the AGM at the pocket park within our precinct which is behind my house, so i ever heard that they were discussing about even building a swimming pool inside our precinct.

eventually the gated and guarded still stay, and i think instead of managing by our residents here, they engage third party to manage the funds and the management of the community here. after that, no more AGM i had even heard about them organising...

but to be fair, the security here is good, the security guards here are very responsible that i always see them patrolling no matter day or night, and they are very diligent in handling guests or outsiders coming in to the precinct. owner either needs to provide a invite to the guard in advance thru app which they can use the QR code to enter or the guards will call owner to verify if he is expecting someone like delivery man, guest etc., then once the guest or outsider reaches the guard house, the guards will also ask for license to verify ID, and record their mobile no and take photo of the driver before they enter, and when they exit, they must verify their faces at the exit (outsiders) via the machine before they can exit.

Got, like jadehill gamuda and ecohill prescient 3 opposite of clubhouse, the house is under individual title, but on paper the owner "voluntarily" (actually they must sign it together with S&P, no exception) enter into permanent agreement with developer to follow all the rules stated in DMC and agreed to pay the management fee. So it look like gated and guarded community like stratified property, but it govern by the DMC as contract, not under strata act. So the owner can still renovate the exterior of house, but must get the approval from management office since they already "agreed" in the DMC. But usually only corner lot can extend the house if they got land space, intermediate can't do much, like you can't extend car porch and build a balcony on it, some uniformity need to maintain, or if your unit is open concept so you also can't install auto gate. At most the 5 or 10 feet empty land at back yard can be extended. Before that must submit all drawing to the office and pay deposit, if not they won't issue working permit to your contractor. So they got more flexibility.

One more example is my relative house in jadehill can install the solar on rooftop and leave the conduit pipe on the back of exterior wall, but my house under strata must conceal and can't let any wire or pipe appear on exterior wall.

This type of DMC is just another commercial contract and depending on how the initial contract was drafted, it may not bind subsequent purchaser unlike those strata properties.

It should be run by your JMB form by residents, they must have appointed licensed property management company to manage the community, but usually developer will still have "invisible hand" at the back.. And I think AGM was allowed to be suspended in past few year due to MCO. Starting this year, all must conduct AGM and submit report to local council.

For jadehill no such loophole la, the DMC is drafted by lawfirm with bullet proof. It is original owner's duty to ensure new buyer to sign new DMC with management office so his name can be removed. So this is also good point when you buy from established developer.

my side here is cluster house, so all houses can extend the empty land at the side.

although it is individual title, the owners are quite ok, none of them do significant difference in the changes for exterior, all still try to main the basic colour theme of grey colour.

Can't be sure with that as every good and famous lawyers will also lose some cases in court 😂

ya. this is what i think also. i let a third party company to manage so it will not have the issue that the commitee that is doing funny thing for the funds.

so far did not receive any notice for AGM yet.

but anyway, i am selling my house so i won't bother about it. haha.

if the old owner name is not removed but the property is sold le?

i did not see any clauses in the DMC about what owner must do if he is to sell the property.

This post has been edited by westlife: Oct 9 2023, 09:16 AM

For your case, if property was sold via auction? Seller don't know dmc and not inform to sign? Or maybe the auction buyer know, but don't want to sign as they know the Liability still bond with old owner? So that they can do whatever they like?

Maybe they have applied approval from Management office (MC) just that you don't know abt it. I believe your community is well managed since you mention the security is very tight and your neighbour renovate the house in moderate way and follow color code.

All property related charges are tag to the property. Whoever is the last named owner or living there will be responsible.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Oct 9 2023, 09:20 AM

yes, my community is relatively well maintenance with tight security. the houses here still look consistent depsite some owners chose to extend using the 10 feet land. and most of them extend all the way to the end of the 10 feet land and link to the wall of neighbours. i do not agree that owners should extend all the way to the end though, becos it will block the air flow between the houses. my house has not much wind, i guess mostly becos the houses opposite me extended the houses that block the wind.

This post has been edited by westlife: Oct 9 2023, 09:19 AM

icic. then it makes sense.

becos i believe if the buyer needs to sign DMC with the management, also need to engage lawyer rite and pay stamp duty etc.? unless the lawyer can do for 'free' together with SPA?

Up to the new buyer whether want to go contend in court or sign DMC and continue to pay fee to get access ID for his new house, if he want to go to court then the lawyer sure will inform him "Don't know" is not acceptable in court, and can't say I buy from aution and no one inform me bla bla bla, buy auction without using proper agent mean you already assume and undertake to accept this for any circumstances that are applied to new owner, so pls read T&C carefully. The buyer must sign DMC and pay fee to get the user ID for App and access RFID.
So play naive is not practical and at the expense of the new buyer only. So those who buy from auction must learn this kind of risk also

Like jadehill every year their legal team got case to handle also. Most of the owner end up will follow the rules. So far only one case go into chain of letter demand, and end up the rich owner still bend to it

The main purpose for any residents association is the security. If it is done well by a third party, I don't think there is much to be done unless the committee wants to find fault with residents.

So whatever disputes between neighbours can be directed to the local council.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Oct 9 2023, 09:28 AM

ic, for u guys case whose property is also gated and guarded, how many % of your community is currently paying the maintenance fee regularly. seems like no matter what community there will always be ppl who refuse to pay for it even they have signe DMC etc. before.

When the property is under strata, the non payment is not an issue. Is only when they can collect. Interest is chargeable for late payment.

When is under individual title, the non payment can be tricky. It depends on how the contract is worded.

Didn't really check on the %, my house even is under strata title but still got owner don't pay, lol. Last year got publish their name on notice board then some of them only go to pay. Reason is either they didn't receive the bill or they don't stay at here so forgot to pay. But did check with office, if the amount owe until very substantial amount, and the owner still ignore after few times of letter demand sent, then they can foreclose the house to cover the expenses. But so far no such thing happened yet.

Those who buy individual without DMC, mean normal guarded neighbourhood like my old house, nothing can do to non compliant owner, they can still access by using visitor lane. They have the perogative as individual title owner. As the forming of RA is based on their consent only, they are not binded by any contract.

Foreclosure is a serious action. Can the management do that ?

Oh I see, normally auction buyer only signed Pos and LA, MOT letter. Since it not direct buy from developer so I though the DMC is not necessary to sign. Yeah didn't sign DMC doesn't mean people don't want to pay maintenance fee, so if the maintenance fee is the only concern then not worry people will still pay.

I mean if DMC stated 5year cannot renovation exterior, but the new owner (auction) want to renovation exterior due to 5year abandon the house is at poor condition. So without dmc restricted for new owner, and the dmc bond with old owner, so new owner doing the renovation should be not any obstacles?

Since if its individual title property with dmc.

Can, that is in the worst and extreme scenario, when the owner purposely to be ignorance, and by that time he or she should have been blacklisted in all kind of watchlist as well.

It stated in my DMC also, If I and my wife as owner failed to comply and in non action and refuse to co operate, then we agreed for MC to initiate the clause.

Even Majlis tempatan can't do that for non payment of yearly assessment.

To my understanding, don't think there is DMC stand for 5 years only as it defeat its purpose.

Secondly, even though previous owner abandoned the house, and new buyer bought it over, it go back to same page. To enter the prescient, you need to get approval from MC. So MC will detect you are new owner, then will ask you to sign DMC and complete registration for new ID. Without completing the first stage, non of your contractor can get working permit to enter the prescient. Every single person must either own the RFID sticker on vehicle, or show QR for scanning at guard post.

Not sure about Majlis tempatan, but for pejabat tanah, your premise will be forfeited if don't pay after receive the red warning letter on 10th years.

And I think local council also got way to force the an owner to pay also. Basically don't think anyone dare to "play" with local council, this part I am interested to know also if one continuously ignoring the notice and summon from local council, what will happen? lol

Anyway, I am referring to my DMC sign with developer. Buyer already accept it during initial stage. So when want to buy this kind property, then need to pay lo

This post has been edited by Jingle91: Oct 9 2023, 11:28 AM

Non payment is one thing.

Whether DMC have the right to foreclose the property is another. Does it specifically stated it in the DMC like bank loan agreement ?

We cannot assumed things when contract doesn't state.

You may refer to my earlier reply on my DMC.

DMC is not about borrowing money like bank loan.

A non payment of a loan and for services are two different legal recourse.

i saw many who owe the maintenance but like nothing happened to them...

yes, indeed. there is a period where my precinct here almost has no more G & G... becos not enough consent from owners...

Those living in strata will have the Act to follow.

Others, nothing will happened to them.

Whatever, no one can denied another from entering his own property.

indeed. i also feel that it is the case.

my precinct here only has slightly more than 50% of ppl actually paying for the maintenance fee seriously.

If you are in the following scenario ...

Let's say you owe 10k fee and the mgmt want to foreclose your 1mil property ?

You think the judge will issue a foreclosure order ?

And banks have the first right claim over the loan on property.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Oct 9 2023, 02:16 PM

Living in a gated and guarded with DMC agreement and individual title. The place is run by a 3rd party company oversee by the community only. Day to day operation completely done by the company. The DMC agreement will be entered when you want to get the access cards. The previous owner will also need to clear any outstanding also before that. As it stands, 96% of resident paying. Only 1-2 crack fellows didn't pay while some are foreign owners didn't bother to pay as not residing in Malaysia (letting property sitting idle). This scheme only works if you have like minded residents.

Additional notes:
Extending cluster and semidetached house until using all the 10 feet is illegal by municipal law. This is not something governed by strata or individual title laws. You bought a semi detached or cluster, if someone put a brick wall next to your face, what would you feel? Anyone been treated like this by your neighbour should report to the relevant municipal authorities.

This post has been edited by contagiouseddie: Oct 9 2023, 01:46 PM

Wah, your house seen like very unique, mind to tell the project's name? Because DMC should be signed by all owners together with S&P so got no exception, hence no need consent anymore after it go live. Anything need to go through AGM vote with resolution.

If the G&G can be stopped anytime, mean it is just normal neighbourhood style guarded community like my old house, and it is managed by Residents Association without much power, because owner can anytime revoke their consent. That is why chaotic situation might occur if residents are not cooperative enough. Like my old house, one owner just make covering report and attached it with his complaint to MBKJ, on same date MBKJ instruct RA to stop the barrier gate for two weeks and answer to the complaint, owner have very big power in this kind of neighborhood. Until today that owner still don't want to pay anything but we just bear with that as most residents prefer to have the barrier gate with access card. So free rider can happen in this kind of neighborhood

All DMC contracts under the Strata Act must be followed through.

Other private DMC are merely commercial contracts and there is no law to state that breaching of the contract is an offense until proven in court.

Don't confused

I never say DMC signed with developer during onset for individual title will be deemed as an offence when the owner breached the rules.

DMC under strata will be deemed as offence because the default party will be fined under the act, and need to answer to the lawsuit initiated by MC.

DMC for individual title will not have fine, but a contract is a contract, it is not just a paper to sign for fun. That is why I said the owner "voluntarily" to enter into the contract, so if the owner against the contract that he has signed, the MC can pursuant to the clause in contract to sue him via civil lawsuit, and there is no room to fight because he had signed it on day one.

You said foreclosure ?

Of course the mgmt can sue till federal court ... that is his right, or everyone right.

But suing a subsequent buyer may not be straight forward.

Signing a contract doesn't mean is cast on stones. There are void and voidable contracts term.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Oct 9 2023, 02:58 PM

Not sure. That’s why I try to find out here. Hahaha.

96% of ppl paying is a lot. My side only 51 or 52% of ppl paying only.

Yes agreed. Extended to the edge of neighbour’s house is bad. The neighbour should complain indeed.

Sorry, could not disclose Becos of privacy. Haha.

Besides, the DMC I signed is between me and developer. If now the management is no longer developer, will it make a difference?

Yes really. My house area here almost came to a stage to lose the G&G. Hahaha. However, it did not else the value of my property will drop significantly.

wah, must be batcave

My apology, I was the one confused. As the power attorney is signed for bank loan, not for DMC.

My DMC did not say that I agreed for foreclosure. It only mention if MC has exhausted all ways listed under the paragraph yet still unable to recover the expenses, I as defaulter agreed that MC has its final discretion to take any action which it think is fit.

But if I need to sell the house, it is my obligation to get new buyer to sign the letter of undertaking from the MC for him to continue follow the DMC and relieve myself from it.

This post has been edited by Jingle91: Oct 10 2023, 08:04 AM

Think best is to refer to your DMC. As my one is under strata and it seen like different from yours.

For my one, the developer has it's own property management company, so both are named in DMC. Ultimately it will be managed by the MC. Even if the MC is changed, it shall continue valid for subsequent MC come into the place, no discontinuity.

Ic. My DMC is between developer and me only. so by rite now developer had passed on the management to residents I dun think this DMC is so critical anymore.

As I said before I only recalled that the developer told me that first 3 or 5 years (could not remember the exact no) I could not modify the exterior by changing colour etc..

I think this DMC is only meant for the developer to restrict the owners doing things that may affect the sales of the houses within that period.

Ultimately, my house is under individual title. Similar to other houses that having the same title, I should be free to do any modification as well.

I was surprised when you mentioned foreclosure which is a drastic action and not even provided in the Strata Act.

At most the mgmt can seized the moveable property (tv, fridge, washing machine, sofa etc) of the defaulter to recover the outstanding under the Strata Act but for private DMC, how far can they go to recover is another thing.

As for subsequent buyer under private DMC, the seller can inform the buyer but is not obligated to ensure he sign again. It will be his 'disputes' with the mgmt.

And lawyers won't know the existence of any private DMC in an individual title unlike strata unless it is made known to him and he will then request the seller or his lawyer to provide further info.