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 Extending your notice period by employer, Is it even legal?

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TSredracer2004
post Sep 9 2023, 12:46 PM, updated 3y ago

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A friend of mine recently kena this:

He was an old time employee joined back in 2015. That time, the company was smooth sailing and still good business.

When the pandemic hits the company, the business went down and slowly they tighten more of their procedures on employees making a lot of them unhappy and leave.

The problem was in the beginning when my friend signed this offer letter, there were no additional clause saying "Resignation is 3 months notice or you can leave when a project you are handling has ended". This term was later added back in 2021 to new joiners after many staffs left halfway from a project.

The term was not even communicated officially and was only made known because the new joiners discussed about it.

Now, he wanna leave in 3 months' time but his project is gonna end in a little more than 3 months and his new place can't really wait more than 3 months for him.

He was demanded by the company for the following:

1. Notice to be extended to project ending time. He threw in resignation on 2nd Sept and was expected to join new company by early December but his project will end the week before Christmas.

2. No leave can be used to offset his notice period. These leaves will be considered burned as no cash is payable to him.

3. If he chooses to leave early, the company can sue him based on breach of terms of the contract.

Problem is his initial offer letter did not have this and he was not asked to sign any additional suffix documents that indicated the change in the notice periods.

What should he do?

Bonus Question: The company even rejected the new company's offer of buying him out saying what they need is not money but a person to run through the whole project. Is that even legal to reject a buyout?
COOLPINK
post Sep 9 2023, 01:12 PM

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Follow appointment letter black and white.
Company cannot suka-suka set terms without employee consenting to it.

As for the bonus question, yes company has the right to reject buyout.

roybreaker
post Sep 10 2023, 10:56 AM

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Question: MNC or local company?
TSredracer2004
post Sep 10 2023, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(roybreaker @ Sep 10 2023, 10:56 AM)
Question: MNC or local company?
*
Considered local
DarkAeon
post Sep 10 2023, 08:01 PM

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can't reject buy out

it is basically u not gonna serve the duration as stated in your contract and therefore, u r paying in lieu. it's not something the employer can reject
cpteoh
post Sep 10 2023, 08:06 PM

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1. Notice to be extended to project ending time. He threw in resignation on 2nd Sept and was expected to join new company by early December but his project will end the week before Christmas.

make sure you have evidence that you submitted the resignation on 2nd Sept, eg. email or etc

2. No leave can be used to offset his notice period. These leaves will be considered burned as no cash is payable to him.

this is illegal i suppose? you are entitle to the leave prorata to the year you work, either they pay you in money or let you go earlier

3. If he chooses to leave early, the company can sue him based on breach of terms of the contract.

maximum 3 months as stated in the initial offer letter you signed
just say "NO" to anything extra, they cannot force you to work
If they play ugly to force you, it is 2 ways street actually, since you're leaving already, there is nothing to worry about performance, bonus and etc, you can play the game too, by doing the minimum you have to do, finding legit and valid excuse why thing gets delay and need extra time.
they will soon realise playing dirty and upsetting you wont bring them any good nor extra manpower too

Problem is his initial offer letter did not have this and he was not asked to sign any additional suffix documents that indicated the change in the notice periods.

What should he do?

Bonus Question: The company even rejected the new company's offer of buying him out saying what they need is not money but a person to run through the whole project. Is that even legal to reject a buyout?

yes, the company can reject the offer
but again, it is 2 ways street as above. while I dont recommend tear the face or burn the bridge, but you just have to play the game cleverly
it is just a game of negotiation
TSredracer2004
post Sep 10 2023, 10:40 PM

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QUOTE(cpteoh @ Sep 10 2023, 08:06 PM)
1. Notice to be extended to project ending time. He threw in resignation on 2nd Sept and was expected to join new company by early December but his project will end the week before Christmas.

make sure you have evidence that you submitted the resignation on 2nd Sept, eg. email or etc

2. No leave can be used to offset his notice period. These leaves will be considered burned as no cash is payable to him.

this is illegal i suppose? you are entitle to the leave prorata to the year you work, either they pay you in money or let you go earlier

3. If he chooses to leave early, the company can sue him based on breach of terms of the contract.

maximum 3 months as stated in the initial offer letter you signed
just say "NO" to anything extra, they cannot force you to work
If they play ugly to force you, it is 2 ways street actually, since you're leaving already, there is nothing to worry about performance, bonus and etc, you can play the game too, by doing the minimum you have to do, finding legit and valid excuse why thing gets delay and need extra time.
they will soon realise playing dirty and upsetting you wont bring them any good nor extra manpower too

Problem is his initial offer letter did not have this and he was not asked to sign any additional suffix documents that indicated the change in the notice periods.

What should he do?

Bonus Question: The company even rejected the new company's offer of buying him out saying what they need is not money but a person to run through the whole project. Is that even legal to reject a buyout?

yes, the company can reject the offer
but again, it is 2 ways street as above. while I dont recommend tear the face or burn the bridge, but you just have to play the game cleverly
it is just a game of negotiation
*
Actually, there was also a resignation acceptance email by the HR on 2nd Sept itself but the Manager said can accept, but must follow the extra clause as per new employees. Something that they added in the employee handbook that doesn't require signature. He did ask for it, the handbook did have it (but he question the legality as later employees' offer letters all got that clause but his older one didn't).

Can reject buy out eh? I thought it's a no reject thing?
contestchris
post Sep 11 2023, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(COOLPINK @ Sep 9 2023, 01:12 PM)
Follow appointment letter black and white.
Company cannot suka-suka set terms without employee consenting to it.

As for the bonus question, yes company has the right to reject buyout.
*
No the company cannot decline a buyout, if the offer letter / employment T&Cs clearly mentioned that "3 months notice OR salary in lieu".

This post has been edited by contestchris: Sep 11 2023, 12:21 PM
K0MR4DE
post Sep 12 2023, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(redracer2004 @ Sep 9 2023, 12:46 PM)
He was demanded by the company for the following:

1. Notice to be extended to project ending time. He threw in resignation on 2nd Sept and was expected to join new company by early December but his project will end the week before Christmas.

2. No leave can be used to offset his notice period. These leaves will be considered burned as no cash is payable to him.

3. If he chooses to leave early, the company can sue him based on breach of terms of the contract.

Problem is his initial offer letter did not have this and he was not asked to sign any additional suffix documents that indicated the change in the notice periods.

What should he do?

Bonus Question: The company even rejected the new company's offer of buying him out saying what they need is not money but a person to run through the whole project. Is that even legal to reject a buyout?
*
Hope a bit of my HR knowledge can help your friend predicament;

1. Yup, by right your friend last employment date will be on the 02/12/2023. According to Employment Act 1955 Section 12(1), either Company or employee can submit their notice of terminate at any period/time as long as they follow the length of notice on their employment contract. Also, once employee shoot their resignation letter your friend no longer an employee as of 03/12/2023 since its not a requirement under Employment Act that Company need to give "Acceptance of Resignation". Company cannot simply extend the notice period.

2. Any unutilized annual leave must be paid on the last day of employment (Monthly Salary/26 days = Daily Salary) then (Daily Salary * Unutilized Annual Leave = Encashed Leave). Its against the law to burn employee unutilized leave as per Employment Act 1955 Section 60E(3A).

3. Technically, your friend never did anything wrong since he has properly gave his notice of resignation as per their employment contract. From my perspective, the terms "You can resign after project completed" breaches Contract Act 1950 Section 24, since Company breached the Employment Act already by not recognizing the length of notice period. Basically, holds no water loh.

4. Each offense that breaches Employment Act 1955 carries RM50k in penalties.

What should your friend do?
a. As others users has said, find any evidence that your friend has tendered his resignation. The easiest one is by email and hopefully he has cc`ed multiple person includling his personal email.
b. Your friend did nothing wrong, while currently serving his notice period until 02/12/2023 ask him to negotiate with the HR based on the provisions of the Employment Act 1955.
c. Ensure that the Company acknowledge his last employment date and calculate how many unutilized annual leave he still have. Since, unused annual leave MUST be paid on his final salary from the Company.
d. If his HR blatantly/arrogantly refuse to acknowledge his last employment date and his RIGHTS for the unused leave encashments, then you tell Company HR that you will seek a legal advice and probably lodge a complaint against the Company at Jabatan Tenaga Kerja. No competent and sane HR wanted to deal with the officer, since everything must be settle quickly, if not Jabatan Tenaga Kerja will escalate to the labor court. (-$$$ for the Company).


TSredracer2004
post Sep 12 2023, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(K0MR4DE @ Sep 12 2023, 10:55 AM)
Hope a bit of my HR knowledge can help your friend predicament;

1. Yup, by right your friend last employment date will be on the 02/12/2023. According to Employment Act 1955 Section 12(1), either Company or employee can submit their notice of terminate at any period/time as long as they follow the length of notice on their employment contract. Also, once employee shoot their resignation letter your friend no longer an employee as of 03/12/2023 since its not a requirement under Employment Act that Company need to give "Acceptance of Resignation". Company cannot simply extend the notice period.

2. Any unutilized annual leave must be paid on the last day of employment (Monthly Salary/26 days = Daily Salary) then (Daily Salary * Unutilized Annual Leave = Encashed Leave). Its against the law to burn employee unutilized leave as per Employment Act 1955 Section 60E(3A).

3. Technically, your friend never did anything wrong since he has properly gave his notice of resignation as per their employment contract. From my perspective, the terms "You can resign after project completed" breaches Contract Act 1950 Section 24, since Company breached the Employment Act already by not recognizing the length of notice period. Basically, holds no water loh.

4. Each offense that breaches Employment Act 1955 carries RM50k in penalties.

What should your friend do?
a. As others users has said, find any evidence that your friend has tendered his resignation. The easiest one is by email and hopefully he has cc`ed multiple person includling his personal email.
b. Your friend did nothing wrong, while currently serving his notice period until 02/12/2023 ask him to negotiate with the HR based on the provisions of the Employment Act 1955.
c. Ensure that the Company acknowledge his last employment date and calculate how many unutilized annual leave he still have. Since, unused annual leave MUST be paid on his final salary from the Company.
d. If his HR blatantly/arrogantly refuse to acknowledge his last employment date and his RIGHTS for the unused leave encashments, then you tell Company HR that you will seek a legal advice and probably lodge a complaint against the Company at Jabatan Tenaga Kerja. No competent and sane HR wanted to deal with the officer, since everything must be settle quickly, if not Jabatan Tenaga Kerja will escalate to the labor court. (-$$$ for the Company).
*
Well biggest problem is, the big boss aka the GM doesn't let him go and not the HR so the HR got no say. Besides, their HR is just 1 kucirat guy running the show and mostly need the GM to approve, so it's kinda difficult especially when the GM said he knows officials on top and if he tries something funny, he will be blacklisted in the industry.

 

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