My take after test driving - accurate and sharp, for a conservative FWD family SUV (don’t compare it to a Focus), but also artificial at the same time. It’s definitely better than any generation CR-V. You don’t get that looseness over bumpy surfaces where the wheel totally loses all weight in the 10-12-2 o’clock positions (like it suddenly got disconnected from the steering column). Saying that, the CR-V steering is a very low bar to compare it to, so still best to temper your expectations until you can get a test drive to determine of the GR is “good enough” for you.

If you want me to elaborate, at least based on my impressions from that short test drive; Basically, there’s very little “lag” between your steering input and and the rest of your body feeling the change in direction. As long as your steering inputs are clean and linear, the car will track accordingly. Just don’t expect to be instant pin sharp like a performance car or convey much road feel from the steering wheel.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 29 2023, 10:36 PM

Ok got it. For me, looks > handling/performance so it will be the GR Sport. I didn't bother with the Cross hybrid all this while as the looks don't quite appeal to me. Won't mind reduced handling performance with stock eco tyres but I guess they won't put eco tyres as standard on GR Sport which is supposed to have sporty elements with all sports tuned suspension and steering and also performance bracing added. All these should contribute something I guess whether big or small it should be noticeable.

Since dev/numb thought the Cross handles much better than CRV, that should do it. 😁

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 29 2023, 10:40 PM

Ok thanks. As long as it's better than CRV that's good enough. The loose steering feel and excessively soft and bouncy suspension of the CRV don't feel good to me although they may appeal to others.

I'll just wait for the cash rebate to come from Toyota on this Cross GR Sport, will likely get this when there's cash rebate. At the meantime will also look at the new Corolla but expect it to be priced a bit higher without any meaningful changes so will likely drop it if that's the case. It's basically the same as the current model with some minor updates such as additional USB ports added here and there, all for RM15k-20k more than the current Corolla which are discounted with cash rebates. In other words, the updated new Corolla model won't be a value buy.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 29 2023, 10:51 PM

From AutoBuzz to avoid PT kacau. It is the same eco Toyo CR1.

https://autobuzz.my/2023/02/22/video-2023-t...nsion-and-more/

Help you translate to layman English. Expect heavier steering, less body roll. That's all.


“Sport ECU” for the electric power steering that is claimed to increase steering feel and response.

= software only "tune", meaning reduce assist force, make steering heavier. No going to impact the precision and sharpness. Given same eco tyre, so...no need to repeat. Most car sport mode already does this.


There’s also reduced body roll thanks to stiffer suspension (retuned springs and struts), and the addition of a Performance Bar.

= stiffer spring and added a struct tower bar. Like I said earlier Toyota will not redesign the suspension geometry for small project like this. No mention of lowering, so expect same camber as well. Don't know what is "Performance Bar", if that is referring to Anti-roll bar, it is wtf moment like regular CC don't have ARB??? Anyway entire thing is around reduce body roll, which attending to regular consumer perception less body roll = good handling. Nothing too serious here.


P/S: ARB is more important as front/rear balance tool, generally stiffer end will slide first. Perfect example is 86 vs BRZ, where BRZ get softer rear ARB than 86.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jun 30 2023, 12:44 AM

Thanks, understood.

I just watched YS Khong's Youtube video on the test drive of the Corolla Cross 1.8V up Genting Highlands. At the end of the video, his summary on the car surprises me a little. Firstly he mentioned the Corolla Cross although not the most powerful car has very good handling around the corners and will give other cars a run for the money. He also mentioned the 1.8V is better than the 1.8 hybrid if going up the hill as it has more power with higher torque and horsepower. This is surely surprising so I checked the specs and indeed the engine of the 1.8V (139PS / 172Nm) is more powerful than the hybrid (98PS / 142Nm). However, there's the motor generator in the hybrid that gives the additional power (72PS / 163Nm). Not sure how the motor generator will contribute to acceleration power though but YS Khong did mention he found the normal version of the Cross to be more powerful than the hybrid version when going up the hill.

That's good to know. I'd rather have old reliable tech especially critical main components such as engine and gear transmission rather than the latest tech with unknown or poor quality that have potential to break down. In that case, it's a good thing UMW didn't adopt the new technology. I didn't know the latest drive train (Toyota's dynamic force engine and direct shift CVT) is problematic. I don't keep in touch with the automative news too much unless I"m in the market for a new vehicle then I'll start to investigate on everything regarding the car.

Calculating a hybrid’s max power and torque isn’t a matter of adding the outputs of the petrol and electric motors together and calling it a day. They’re tuned for fuel economy. Peak horsepower and torque will still be lower compared to the 1.8 version because the hybrid’s combustion engine is very lowly tuned and the electric motor’s assistance plateaus lower down the rev range.

Electric motor is used for initial movement and to augment the dips in the combustion engine’s torque curve. You will get better low speed acceleration going up hilly bits in short busts as long as the driving done prior to reaching the incline has sufficiently charged the battery. It works great for daily urban driving in towns with sporadic undulations (flat-uphill-flat-flat-downhill-uphill-flat) at normal speeds, but won’t help much on a sustained hillclimb as the small battery gets discharged faster than it can recharge.

You can drive any hybrid and try it for yourself. When the battery is sufficiently charged (say 3/4 full) just set it to EV mode and drive slowly on electric power alone. Wait till the battery gets depleted and the ICE fires up to start charging it, and then try flooring the pedal. You will hear the engine revving quite high but the car struggling to accelerate, because (a) it’s already an engine in a low state of tune, and (b) there’s no more electric power coming from the empty battery to provide the “torque fill” required for that sudden burst of acceleration.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 30 2023, 12:24 PM

Thanks for the information. Based on your response as well as reviews on the internet and test-drive videos on Youtube, solely on engine performance I presume we can deduce on the following:-

Pros of Corolla Cross hybrid over non-hybrid/GR Sport
1. Better drivability in city drives at low to moderate speed cruising. Smoother and more powerful acceleration at low to moderate speeds.
2. Quieter cabin during idling and low to moderate speeds.
3. Better fuel consumption in all driving conditions (that's for sure)

Pros of Corolla Cross non-hybrid/GR Sport over hybrid
1. More powerful acceleration at moderate to high speed cruising. In other words, slightly better performance with spirited drives and hard acceleration
2. Due to the above, slightly better advantage in long highway journeys when it comes to overtaking vehicles at high speeds or climbing steep hills such as going up Genting Highlands

After some investigation, I found this article stating that the bookings for Toyota Corolla Cross GR Sport exceed the hybrid model in Malaysia, and the wait list for the GR Sport is around 6 months. Is it true? Initially I thought there isn't much interest in the GR Sports model due to lukewarm response, but looks like I may be wrong.

https://www.wapcar.my/news/toyota-corolla-c...-6-months-63808

majority Malaysians just love sporty bodykit

I actually hope there will be less interest for this GR Sports and due to low bookings or sales on the model, Toyota then launch the cash rebate for the model. Haha! Now there's cash rebate promotion for all the Corolla Cross models both hybrid and non-hybrid but there is no discount for the GR Sports. Maybe it's just recently launched so there's no discount.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 30 2023, 03:24 PM

Better fuel consumption in all conditions are not guarantee. Only it is statistically better in most conditions.

Due to parasitic power drawn by MG1 (I'll explain later), if we have hypothetical long drive without need to brake at all, Toyota HSD hybrid will be less efficient.
Any fuel saving is contributed by the 98PS ICE that use Atkinson cycle (in layman = longer combustion stroke than intake stroke to gain higher thermal efficiency, ok maybe not layman enough for those doesn't know Otto cycle, sorry I tried my best).

Here's the 101 of Toyota HSD
- the 72PS/163Nm is called MG2. It has 2 jobs - direct drive the wheel, and regenerative braking
- there is another motor MG1 (unknown spec). It has 2 jobs - charging the hybrid battery from engine, and control the gear ratio of eCVT

2nd job of the MG1 is the one that steal engine power, and can consume 20% of engine torque for 2.4L Camry Hybrid. I couldn't find data for the Cross Hybrid.

So imagine if one is traveling permanent constant speed. Statistically, this is unlikely, even highway we get to brake.
- MG2 has no chance to generate power from braking.
- MG1 consume engine power to maintain hybrid battery level
- MG1 consume engine power to fix gear ratio of eCVT

For comparison normal ICE car or other brand hybrid that use AT/DCT, has permanent mechanical lock to fix gear ratio (tiny amount of electric to maintain oil pressure in AT/DCT).

I guess, this also answer you 2nd question, at continuously high load (including hill climb), it really depends how much MG2 regenerative charging can keep up with the acceleration requirement, so that we don't need MG1 to keep replenishing battery power and consume engine torque.

Then we also don't know the MG2 max RPM, usually for PMSM (permanent magnet synchronous motor), torque started to drop around 50% of max rpm, then at max RPM the torque is about 50% of max torque.
PMSM is popular to low speed efficiency but lack of high rpm performance. This affect the MG2 torque reduction at high speed. Toyota didn't disclose this, at least I couldn't find the spec.

We also don't know MG1 power. What is its output ratio to engine max horsepower (which decide how much parasitic load on the engine). Again Camry Hybrid case is 20%, remember it is bigger 2.4L engine.

Of course, all are still limited by how fast the hybrid battery charge (aka C rate). Most of the time this is the bottleneck. Put bigger MG1 also no point.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jun 30 2023, 03:45 PM

Article written during GR’s debut month/quarter, so it’s possible that GR bookings at the time exceed all other Cross models. That’s normal for most cars.

GR and Hybrid target different buyers. Majority of Cross GR buyers are likely comparing it to the regular Cross G/V models and equivalent petrol models from competitors (eg: HR-V Turbo, CX-30, XV/Crosstrek, etc), while Cross Hybrid buyers are likely comparing it to competing hybrid offerings.

When I made booking (last week of Feb 2023), SA told me Hybrid waiting time is longer than GR and V models, but that could be due to other factors like battery supply constraints and whatnot. They don’t release (afaik) the factory output for each specific model, so hard to draw conclusion.

This post has been edited by dev/numb: Jun 30 2023, 04:31 PM

Looks like you are quite knowledgeable and technical, which is a good thing. I have to read your post several times to get a hang of the MG1 and MG2. After digesting all of it, I think it makes sense now.

Looking at the specs of the hybrid:-

POWERTRAIN
Max Output = 72 (98)/5,200 kW/(PS)/rpm
Max Torque = 142/3,600 Nm/rpm

MOTOR GENERATOR
Max Output = 53 kW
Max Torque = 163 Nm

From your post, if I interpret it correctly the numbers for horsepower and torque of the powertrain in the hybrid model (98 PS and 142 Nm) are fixed and available at any time. However, the horsepower and torque for the Motor Generator (53kW and 163Nm) which I presume are the MG1 and MG2 that you mentioned, is just indicative and not available for use at any time. The numbers are the maximum which the motor generator can store and provide, and the availability is dependent on the regenerative braking. So, in other words if there is little regenerative braking to create the energy or power for the motor generator, then there won't be much horsepower or torque in the motor generator to assist the main powertrain. Say, the motor generator max output and torque is 53kW /163Nm, but in actual scenario it can be just 5kW/20Nm available to be used, just an example. The numbers are not fixed. Is my understanding or interpretation correct?

In this sense, it all makes sense now that the non-hybrid model was claimed to have better performance in hard acceleration or spirited drives due to the more powerful engine (main powertrain) whereas the hybrid model's performance will be very much dependent on the amount of energy or power that is available in the Motor Generator where it can be very low in certain driving conditions.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: Jun 30 2023, 05:00 PM

Yes, that's right. I do think the hybrid version will be the best selling model, especially with the current promotion that's running. I earlier had the impression the GR Sports will be rather niche and less appealing but it looks like there is still interest on the vehicle.

Cross Hybrid current waiting period is 4 - 6 months. This is from KL OKR branch (Wheelcorp)

it's also on the top of my list to replace my Picanto. Main factor is practicality, comfort and most importantly fuel efficiency. It shares the same 35L fuel tank as my Picanto but the fc is almost twice better based on owner's feedback. Do note that I dont do a lot of outstation / highway cruising as I understand that is where hybrid advantage diminishes. I guess it kinda shows the Picanto fc is not ideal in city driving for an A segment also lmao

was considering Civic also but both my gf and her mom dislike the low seating position.... oh well. And I personally have some gripes about the car as well

honestly there's really not much of a choice for the 140 - 150k+ range.... our weak currency value is not helping as well

yet majority of the consumers are still expecting bucket loads of features for the same price as few years ago..... i foresee only China brands could fulfil that in the near future

This post has been edited by ZeneticX: Jun 30 2023, 05:22 PM

Most people will want a vehicle with excellent fuel efficiency, so the hybrid model will usually appeal to majority of people. People who do a lot of city driving everyday to and fro to work and back home, which is likely the case. The hybrid will excel in city driving not only with low fuel consumption but also smoother acceleration and drive when compared to non-hybrid judging from people who have test-driven the vehicle.

In some cases like mine, a hybrid won't bring much benefit as it will be mainly used by my dad which rarely drives since he's retired, also to be used as a backup vehicle. The vehicle will be mainly driven to supermarket for groceries etc. I've done some calculations and in average, the mileage will be 20km in 1 week. In 1 year, the vehicle will only clock around 1,200km (and not 12,000km).

With city driving and heavy usage, the hybrid will be ideal and the natural choice especially to save on petrol costs.

if it's for your dad for rarely drives I would say you dont even need the GRS..... just regular 1.8V or even G will do

I get to make the decisions. 😁 I will still drive it occasionally. The family car must look good, and it's the GR Sports that satisfy this requirement at the moment.

Will give the upcoming new Corolla a final look after it's launched before making the decision.