


inb4: screenshot thread
Page Alza lawak fitnah pemilik Veloz, For content
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May 7 2023, 09:19 PM, updated 3y ago
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#1
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Senior Member
1,595 posts Joined: Aug 2017 |
![]() ![]() ![]() inb4: screenshot thread |
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May 7 2023, 09:36 PM
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#2
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1,006 posts Joined: Sep 2014 |
Some folks can't take a joke JeremyLord, smallcrab, and 1 other liked this post
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May 7 2023, 09:38 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
1,590 posts Joined: Sep 2011 |
alza and veloz got different.
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May 7 2023, 09:41 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
3,582 posts Joined: Oct 2007 From: everywhere in sabah |
meaning sendiri ambil gambar, sendiri upload, sendiri buat caption, sendiri buat lawak, sendiri ketawa soul_gamerz, iUnique, and 12 others liked this post
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May 7 2023, 09:45 PM
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#5
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All Stars
12,061 posts Joined: Oct 2017 |
Bgk screenshot censor this that sonypshomer liked this post
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May 7 2023, 09:54 PM
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#6
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Junior Member
453 posts Joined: Jul 2016 |
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May 7 2023, 09:58 PM
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#7
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
But seriously, Alza and Veloz have the same engine performance and most of the accessories.
Why need to fork out at least extra 20k? |
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May 7 2023, 10:05 PM
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#8
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18 posts Joined: Apr 2013 |
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May 7 2023, 10:09 PM
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#9
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
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May 7 2023, 10:11 PM
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#10
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18 posts Joined: Apr 2013 |
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May 7 2023, 10:13 PM
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Junior Member
40 posts Joined: Feb 2011 From: Mars |
nk pakai kereta cepat, mau berjanggut tunggu que Alza.
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May 7 2023, 10:16 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
849 posts Joined: Feb 2011 |
Janji ada TAOC P2VOC dan berbagai² OC.
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May 7 2023, 10:18 PM
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Senior Member
719 posts Joined: Jul 2011 |
What do u get by snap photo and buat cerita sejuk?
For internet praise? Kalau ambil gambar kereta sendiri pun takpe lah, ini tertiba kereta orang lain pulak kena sebar di internet. |
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May 7 2023, 10:18 PM
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Senior Member
1,711 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kedah Khap Khoun Khap (4K) |
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May 7 2023, 10:51 PM
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325 posts Joined: Feb 2022 |
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May 7 2023, 10:54 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
1,767 posts Joined: Jan 2019 |
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May 7 2023, 10:59 PM
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4,707 posts Joined: May 2008 |
QUOTE(KineticKill @ May 7 2023, 09:58 PM) But seriously, Alza and Veloz have the same engine performance and most of the accessories. android auto/carplay ; rear light ; interior light ; bigger wheel ; bodykit differentWhy need to fork out at least extra 20k? front led light design different https://www.wapcar.my/news/2022-toyota-velo...n-the-two-65683 but whether can justify for that 20k or not ..depend on individual and if you are person that dont want to wait for alza (i assumed Veloz no need wait for long time kot due to demand) This post has been edited by fantasy1989: May 7 2023, 11:01 PM MegaCanonF liked this post
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May 7 2023, 11:00 PM
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Senior Member
2,063 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Konoha |
Toyota bashing season? or Perodua owners syok sendiri same level as Toyota now? lol
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May 7 2023, 11:02 PM
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#19
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189 posts Joined: Jan 2009 |
QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ May 7 2023, 10:59 PM) android auto/carplay ; rear light ; interior light ; bigger wheel ; bodykit different TBH those things not worth 20k. It is the T badge je.for feel good channel.front led light design different https://www.wapcar.my/news/2022-toyota-velo...n-the-two-65683 but whether can justify for that 20k or not ..depend on individual and if you are person that dont want to wait for alza (i assumed Veloz no need wait for long time kot due to demand) |
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May 7 2023, 11:03 PM
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4,707 posts Joined: May 2008 |
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May 7 2023, 11:08 PM
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#21
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189 posts Joined: Jan 2009 |
QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ May 7 2023, 11:03 PM) tax different ..so..deal with it lo Nah. Aruz got quite alot. But after alza. The sales not that dim on it. Coz most Malaysian dunno about cars. Better spec, Alza. Aruz is vios engine and 4AT gear. Not that much ppl care on it.but i do see veloz on the road..much more compared to Aruz counterpart ..Rush? |
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May 7 2023, 11:12 PM
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Senior Member
4,297 posts Joined: Jul 2009 |
does veloz has better nvh padding? hmmmm
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May 7 2023, 11:12 PM
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115 posts Joined: Oct 2008 |
why not.. 20k no waiting list..
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May 7 2023, 11:14 PM
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#24
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2,843 posts Joined: Jun 2005 From: Seasaw |
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May 7 2023, 11:14 PM
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Moderator
9,277 posts Joined: Jan 2005 From: KL. Best place in Malaysia. Nuff said |
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May 7 2023, 11:18 PM
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#26
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215 posts Joined: Jan 2019 |
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May 7 2023, 11:20 PM
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Senior Member
1,266 posts Joined: Sep 2021 |
QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ May 7 2023, 10:59 PM) android auto/carplay ; rear light ; interior light ; bigger wheel ; bodykit different alza adv spec headunit got android auto & apple carplay also la.front led light design different https://www.wapcar.my/news/2022-toyota-velo...n-the-two-65683 but whether can justify for that 20k or not ..depend on individual and if you are person that dont want to wait for alza (i assumed Veloz no need wait for long time kot due to demand) but yes about waiting time.. alza waiting time min. 8 months.. i waited for 8 months+ for mine. not everyone can tahan the 8 months waiting time. honestly its pretty crazy. thats like almost 1 year... can see for those urgently need a car they dont mind to topup that 20k for veloz.. plus its toyota badge, toyota CVT gb is also 7-speed different than P2. and one thing for sure, veloz no oil filter issues. and not sure about body karat issues that i seen quite a few alza owners complain about: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5364524&hl= This post has been edited by Optizorb: May 7 2023, 11:31 PM |
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May 7 2023, 11:26 PM
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1,266 posts Joined: Sep 2021 |
QUOTE(kcchong2000 @ May 7 2023, 11:08 PM) Nah. Aruz got quite alot. But after alza. The sales not that dim on it. Coz most Malaysian dunno about cars. Better spec, Alza. Aruz is vios engine and 4AT gear. Not that much ppl care on it. QUOTE(Ashadiya @ May 7 2023, 11:18 PM) apa lj.. sejak bila aruz use vios engine...?maybe you confused NEW vios using exact same engine as MYVI, ARUZ/RUSH, ALZA/VELOZ and AVANZA. while previous vios using same FAMILY engine as the above. old vios = 2NR-FE new vios + myvi + etc = 2NR-VE which is modified by Daihatsu based on the original 2NR-FE engine.. but there's not much diff between 2NR-FE and 2NR-VE, mostly just FE got very slightly more power only. This post has been edited by Optizorb: May 7 2023, 11:54 PM JeremyLord liked this post
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May 7 2023, 11:33 PM
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2,547 posts Joined: Dec 2007 |
Noted.
Kensel booking. Takut viral. |
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May 7 2023, 11:41 PM
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Senior Member
5,650 posts Joined: Mar 2012 |
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May 8 2023, 09:53 AM
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269 posts Joined: Feb 2011 |
QUOTE(Zaryl @ May 7 2023, 10:18 PM) That RM20k offers Lol many Perodung national coffinmaker fanbois think their Alza is a direct 100% copy of the original product, kek.Apple Carplay Android Auto And most importantly, no OIL FILTER leaking problem faced by new Alza lel Heck, its not even surprising if Perodung cut the iron content during chasis molding just to safe costs, that is why one kick they whole engine bay also can drop. JeremyLord and Zaryl liked this post
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May 8 2023, 09:57 AM
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Junior Member
330 posts Joined: Nov 2007 |
dew... like that also terasa and easily sentap. c'mon whats the big deal?
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May 8 2023, 10:06 AM
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#33
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80 posts Joined: Oct 2021 |
I see side by side on the road .. on the outside , maybe 98% similar ?
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May 8 2023, 10:08 AM
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#34
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1,153 posts Joined: Oct 2009 From: KBR-BKI |
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May 8 2023, 10:10 AM
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Newbie
2 posts Joined: Dec 2009 |
if buy Veloz can send service centre no need queue with alza viva myvi
buy alza need to wait 8 months, send service centre full with B40 grab driver oil filter problem |
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May 8 2023, 10:11 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
5,614 posts Joined: Jun 2006 From: Cyberjaya, Shah Alam, Ipoh |
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May 8 2023, 10:12 AM
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102 posts Joined: Dec 2015 From: kolumpo |
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May 8 2023, 10:13 AM
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#38
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531 posts Joined: Oct 2016 |
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May 8 2023, 10:14 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
5,614 posts Joined: Jun 2006 From: Cyberjaya, Shah Alam, Ipoh |
QUOTE(Optizorb @ May 8 2023, 12:26 AM) apa lj.. sejak bila aruz use vios engine...? Thamby aritu kene SUS paseipa?? maybe you confused NEW vios using exact same engine as MYVI, ARUZ/RUSH, ALZA/VELOZ and AVANZA. while previous vios using same FAMILY engine as the above. old vios = 2NR-FE new vios + myvi + etc = 2NR-VE which is modified by Daihatsu based on the original 2NR-FE engine.. but there's not much diff between 2NR-FE and 2NR-VE, mostly just FE got very slightly more power only. |
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May 8 2023, 10:14 AM
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Junior Member
880 posts Joined: Jan 2018 |
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May 8 2023, 10:15 AM
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1,423 posts Joined: Nov 2013 |
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May 8 2023, 10:15 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
5,614 posts Joined: Jun 2006 From: Cyberjaya, Shah Alam, Ipoh |
QUOTE(KineticKill @ May 7 2023, 11:09 PM) My youngest sis oso aiming this Veloz lar…Want to upgrade from her honda kity. I ask why? Just take alza lah…cheaper like 15-20k kan? She said, ewww Perodua badge mana boleh. Malu lar Minimum T or H badge lar…. 20k premium for a badge upgrade is real for some pipur |
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May 8 2023, 10:16 AM
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#43
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319 posts Joined: Nov 2011 |
T V has higher ground clearance. Nicer rims
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May 8 2023, 10:16 AM
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503 posts Joined: May 2008 |
apa lagi, outside/bukit jalil settle lah
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May 8 2023, 10:16 AM
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Senior Member
1,389 posts Joined: Feb 2006 From: Southern Region |
burukdua owner will do whatever shit to make themselves feel better for buying that junk
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May 8 2023, 10:17 AM
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Senior Member
1,188 posts Joined: Nov 2006 |
POV: your a perodua owner
lel |
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May 8 2023, 10:17 AM
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#47
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Senior Member
5,614 posts Joined: Jun 2006 From: Cyberjaya, Shah Alam, Ipoh |
QUOTE(nebula87 @ May 8 2023, 11:15 AM) Not suprise. Similar mentality with king drivers: nebula87 liked this post
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May 8 2023, 10:20 AM
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Senior Member
4,707 posts Joined: May 2008 |
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May 8 2023, 10:21 AM
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Senior Member
1,176 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Memesia |
tu duit dia biar dia la.. apasial nak lawak2 ni
semua kreta pun sama ada 4 tayar |
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May 8 2023, 10:31 AM
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Senior Member
8,653 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: lolyat |
QUOTE(KineticKill @ May 7 2023, 09:58 PM) But seriously, Alza and Veloz have the same engine performance and most of the accessories. IINM the tax difference is about RM5k.Why need to fork out at least extra 20k? Veloz peninsula price 95k, langkawi 88k, so RM7k is SST and excise duty etc Alza peninsula price 75k, langkawi 73k, so RM2k is SST The rest RM15k is just the difference between interior, infotainment etc. QUOTE(Optizorb @ May 7 2023, 11:20 PM) alza adv spec headunit got android auto & apple carplay also la. Itu Alza AV waiting time is damn long, hearsay infortainment ada problem with supplier.but yes about waiting time.. alza waiting time min. 8 months.. i waited for 8 months+ for mine. not everyone can tahan the 8 months waiting time. honestly its pretty crazy. thats like almost 1 year... can see for those urgently need a car they dont mind to topup that 20k for veloz.. plus its toyota badge, toyota CVT gb is also 7-speed different than P2. and one thing for sure, veloz no oil filter issues. and not sure about body karat issues that i seen quite a few alza owners complain about: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5364524&hl= |
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May 8 2023, 10:45 AM
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Junior Member
433 posts Joined: Jul 2010 |
If someone took a pic of me, and make a false story about it for a fckg lame joke and content for their kuda atensi craving, and my pic spread on soc med unwillingly, of course I will not take it as a joke. This post has been edited by WinkyJr: May 8 2023, 10:45 AM tupai and ramboramsey liked this post
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May 8 2023, 10:47 AM
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Junior Member
433 posts Joined: Jul 2010 |
tbh,
it looks nice before launching, tempted to get one but now it looks kelakar and like kereta mayat on the road lol |
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May 8 2023, 10:49 AM
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#53
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197 posts Joined: Jul 2014 From: Kalimdor. |
rnr nilai petronas? where?
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May 8 2023, 10:52 AM
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Senior Member
4,707 posts Joined: May 2008 |
QUOTE(WinkyJr @ May 8 2023, 10:45 AM) If someone took a pic of me, and make a false story about it for a fckg lame joke and content for their kuda atensi craving, and my pic spread on soc med unwillingly, of course I will not take it as a joke. ya lo..although censored..QUOTE(WinkyJr @ May 8 2023, 10:47 AM) tbh, many ppl will get triggered it looks nice before launching, tempted to get one but now it looks kelakar and like kereta mayat on the road lol |
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May 8 2023, 10:54 AM
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Newbie
20 posts Joined: Jun 2017 |
I'm the owner of Veloz, for most people, 20K cannot justified the upgrade from Alza. For me, I want the Toyota quality and the brand name. If I'm not mistaken, eventhough it come from the same factory, but Toyota have their own QC chk. That is why, Alza have Oil Filter leaking issue but not for Veloz. Veloz also have more refinement and premium on the trim finishing. I'm the owner Perodua before, this time I want try Toyota brand and its SC. I dont mean Perodua SC is bad, but just want to try differently this time. And finally, too many Alza on the road. max_cavalera liked this post
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May 8 2023, 11:00 AM
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#56
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66 posts Joined: Nov 2009 From: currently in Malaysia |
QUOTE(NZ3026 @ May 8 2023, 10:54 AM) I'm the owner of Veloz, for most people, 20K cannot justified the upgrade from Alza. Is it true the ground clearance is higher and they give wider tyres for veloz compared to alza.For me, I want the Toyota quality and the brand name. If I'm not mistaken, eventhough it come from the same factory, but Toyota have their own QC chk. That is why, Alza have Oil Filter leaking issue but not for Veloz. Veloz also have more refinement and premium on the trim finishing. I'm the owner Perodua before, this time I want try Toyota brand and its SC. I dont mean Perodua SC is bad, but just want to try differently this time. And finally, too many Alza on the road. |
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May 8 2023, 11:01 AM
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#57
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396 posts Joined: Jun 2011 |
One if the differences Alza and Veloz which many not discussed about it is about the warranty..
Alza: i think the warranty void certain mileage Veloz: warranty direct till 5 years regardless of mileage Peace of mind i would say.. |
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May 8 2023, 11:04 AM
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Junior Member
473 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Timbuktoo |
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May 8 2023, 11:06 AM
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#59
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Junior Member
396 posts Joined: Jun 2011 |
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May 8 2023, 01:10 PM
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#60
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
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May 8 2023, 01:14 PM
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#61
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
QUOTE(Optizorb @ May 7 2023, 04:20 PM) alza adv spec headunit got android auto & apple carplay also la. Overall those things you mentioned, do you think it’s worth 20k?but yes about waiting time.. alza waiting time min. 8 months.. i waited for 8 months+ for mine. not everyone can tahan the 8 months waiting time. honestly its pretty crazy. thats like almost 1 year... can see for those urgently need a car they dont mind to topup that 20k for veloz.. plus its toyota badge, toyota CVT gb is also 7-speed different than P2. and one thing for sure, veloz no oil filter issues. and not sure about body karat issues that i seen quite a few alza owners complain about: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5364524&hl= |
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May 8 2023, 01:17 PM
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#62
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
QUOTE(max_cavalera @ May 8 2023, 03:15 AM) My youngest sis oso aiming this Veloz lar… Lots of people here also try to justify that 20k extra. But I agree with you, actually they want to pay that extra 20k for the T badge.Want to upgrade from her honda kity. I ask why? Just take alza lah…cheaper like 15-20k kan? She said, ewww Perodua badge mana boleh. Malu lar Minimum T or H badge lar…. 20k premium for a badge upgrade is real for some pipur Malaysians are weird like that. |
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May 8 2023, 01:18 PM
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#63
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
QUOTE(yhtan @ May 8 2023, 03:31 AM) IINM the tax difference is about RM5k. Still, 15k for apple carplay and android auto? Talk about getting screwed over.Veloz peninsula price 95k, langkawi 88k, so RM7k is SST and excise duty etc Alza peninsula price 75k, langkawi 73k, so RM2k is SST The rest RM15k is just the difference between interior, infotainment etc. Itu Alza AV waiting time is damn long, hearsay infortainment ada problem with supplier. |
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May 8 2023, 01:23 PM
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Junior Member
305 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(KineticKill @ May 8 2023, 01:10 PM) leaking oil filter only for oil filter in service centres. the one that came with the car has no problem. Apparently different supplier. the problem not just alza, i read it quite a lot for myvi and other models. 1st i heard is from myvi gen3 before the face lift. same engine with new myvi fl and new alza. so same oil filter. the past few months myvi fl owners complaint the same thing coz the first batch already done 10k service so received the same lousy filter that mg3 owners has been complaining about. Now, 1st batch alza owners pulak kena. |
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May 8 2023, 01:26 PM
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#65
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
QUOTE(tupai @ May 8 2023, 06:23 AM) leaking oil filter only for oil filter in service centres. the one that came with the car has no problem. Apparently different supplier. the problem not just alza, i read it quite a lot for myvi and other models. Ah, so it’s the spare part problem. No like fuel pump issue with the new myvi when they first released.1st i heard is from myvi gen3 before the face lift. same engine with new myvi fl and new alza. so same oil filter. the past few months myvi fl owners complaint the same thing coz the first batch already done 10k service so received the same lousy filter that mg3 owners has been complaining about. Now, 1st batch alza owners pulak kena. |
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May 8 2023, 01:27 PM
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Junior Member
305 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(Optizorb @ May 7 2023, 11:20 PM) alza adv spec headunit got android auto & apple carplay also la. same gearbox la. according to pualinetanbut yes about waiting time.. alza waiting time min. 8 months.. i waited for 8 months+ for mine. not everyone can tahan the 8 months waiting time. honestly its pretty crazy. thats like almost 1 year... can see for those urgently need a car they dont mind to topup that 20k for veloz.. plus its toyota badge, toyota CVT gb is also 7-speed different than P2. and one thing for sure, veloz no oil filter issues. and not sure about body karat issues that i seen quite a few alza owners complain about: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5364524&hl= |
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May 8 2023, 01:28 PM
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Junior Member
305 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
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May 8 2023, 01:37 PM
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Senior Member
1,266 posts Joined: Sep 2021 |
QUOTE(tupai @ May 8 2023, 01:27 PM) definitely not the same cause veloz is 7-speed DCVT. alza is normal D-CVT, same with like in the Ativa and MG3 FL.the belt + pulley configuration is different for both. they are opposites of each other. But i forgot which one is which. It's something like one uses belt for low speed then change to pulley for higher speeds, while the other is vice versa. |
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May 8 2023, 01:37 PM
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#69
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6,249 posts Joined: Jul 2006 |
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May 8 2023, 01:46 PM
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Junior Member
305 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(Optizorb @ May 8 2023, 01:37 PM) definitely not the same cause veloz is 7-speed DCVT. alza is normal D-CVT, same with like in the Ativa and MG3 FL. no lah, same gearboxthe belt + pulley configuration is different for both. they are opposites of each other. But i forgot which one is which. It's something like one uses belt for low speed then change to pulley for higher speeds, while the other is vice versa. QUOTE both models are powered by a 2NR-VE 1.5 litre naturally-aspirated four-cylinder petrol engine that puts out 106 PS (105 hp or 78 kW) at 6,000 rpm and 138 Nm of torque at 4,200 rpm. The Dual VVT-i mill is paired with a D-CVT to drive the front wheels, and drivers have access to a manual mode for the gearbox with seven virtual gears as well as three drive modes both alza and veloz use the same D-CVT. dual mode CVT. bukan toyota Direct CVT (DCVT). myvi FL and ativa also same D-CVT here you can compare veloz and alza https://www.topgear.com.my/reviews/review-2...-underrated-gem This post has been edited by tupai: May 8 2023, 01:48 PM |
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May 8 2023, 01:58 PM
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#71
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Junior Member
89 posts Joined: Nov 2010 |
Ativa, Alza, Veloz has D-CVT with 7-speed +/-manual overide.
While Myvi G3.5 & the new Axia has D-CVT with only "S" and "B", beside the usual "P","R","N","D" . |
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May 8 2023, 01:59 PM
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Junior Member
909 posts Joined: Apr 2019 From: BuKeYi Wonderland |
Veloz ada telescopic. New Alza tak rak
both also hav android auto/ apple car play la,,,,Veloz waiting time abt half year also.... |
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May 8 2023, 02:02 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#73
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
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May 8 2023, 02:03 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#74
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
QUOTE(tupai @ May 8 2023, 06:46 AM) no lah, same gearbox It seems they both have the same transmission. Then 20k T badge tax?both alza and veloz use the same D-CVT. dual mode CVT. bukan toyota Direct CVT (DCVT). myvi FL and ativa also same D-CVT here you can compare veloz and alza https://www.topgear.com.my/reviews/review-2...-underrated-gem |
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May 8 2023, 02:07 PM
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Junior Member
909 posts Joined: Apr 2019 From: BuKeYi Wonderland |
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May 8 2023, 02:17 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#76
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Junior Member
53 posts Joined: Mar 2006 |
Exterior wise veloz does look better i always feel alza stock rims are too small and u look at it sideways it does feels like big body small tyres
And also the front design alza looks quite dated if compare to veloz But 20k price diff perodua wins la its just a normal car for normal ppl wei what T badge la Perodua eeeeee la all this only girls / ppl who are not into cars will say like this |
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May 8 2023, 02:19 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#77
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
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May 8 2023, 02:23 PM
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Junior Member
305 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(KineticKill @ May 8 2023, 02:03 PM) 5 years unlimited mileage warranty, wireless charging, keyless entry no need to press button on handled, bigger tyres, etc etc.Alza 5 years warranty after certain mileage. Smaller tyres, 15 for other variants 16 for AV. No wireless android auto or apple carply. Wired only . Etc etc |
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May 8 2023, 02:33 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#79
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Junior Member
170 posts Joined: Jan 2014 |
Orang kita dengan sebar berita palsu berpisah tiada.
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May 8 2023, 02:35 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#80
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Newbie
48 posts Joined: Dec 2015 |
QUOTE(tupai @ May 8 2023, 07:23 AM) 5 years unlimited mileage warranty, wireless charging, keyless entry no need to press button on handled, bigger tyres, etc etc. The 5 years unlimited warranty I think an advantage over 5 years or 150k km.Alza 5 years warranty after certain mileage. Smaller tyres, 15 for other variants 16 for AV. No wireless android auto or apple carply. Wired only . Etc etc The rest, not so much. Tyres can even be a disadvantage, some sizes can be quite expensive. |
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May 8 2023, 02:38 PM
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Junior Member
305 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
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