Please discuss..

yes, total waste of money

How to differentiate cap ayam product/service?

my ISO image file converter is free apps,.. no need to pay,..

Sorry, i dont mean those big conglomerate, i mean for medium to small size businesses.
A little research into the certification that its quite expensive to maintain.

Not really.

I find it useful

Please elaborate, im taking perspective from a construction service business.

It's just a scam.

Even those big big companies don't actually practise their ISO SOPs.

Then 1 month before renew, do all "fake" documents to show auditor to pass.

SOPS said need proper DO, some even just use receipt from books bought at bookstore. And yes these are big big huge companies.

Not cheap to maintain, and price suka suka hantam, not regulated whatsoever...

Agree, damn true.

If u have a system in place, then will have clear sop for every process to follow… easier for internal process with clear flow

If u want do biz with MNCs
The supply chain mgr usually survey for few potential suppliers
If basic ISO9001 pun tak ada… dont dream get this biz lo

If u are hardcore chinaman sdn bhd
Then waste of money
Kekwa

This is no longer true, last time yes.

now you think supply chain easy to find?

Don't like find others, then die die end up go back to those without ISO, due to cannot find supply,

What kind of resources require to maintain such certification?

Isn't the delivery final product / services matters most? Also the profile & experience of a service provider.

Depends on your scope pf work.

Usually it starts from incoming all the way to outgoing...purchasing...delivery...packing...

You need ask your auditor for advise.

But since most just want money, hantam you big big quotation, then train you 3-4 weeks, then depends on you can cope or not.

its just another excuse for iso trainers to peddle their no problem kita bikin problem kind of training

Its true, the quotation is quite hefty

Depend which biz sector u in
Oil n gas, semicon ISO9001 is minimum
Automotive TS
Aerospace AS

When ayam was SQE decades ago
Ayam always disqualify suppliers who dont have ISO
Used to be the hardcore lead auditor annoying every bosses
Kekwa

The quotation is for training is it?

Then 1st year certification is expensive, 2nd and 3rd is cheap, maybe 50% or less, then you start all over again on 4th year.

Merry go round of nonsense.

Nowadays account system damm powerful, example Autocount, everything is recorded inside and easy to use.

yes got minimum, but nowadays unless you are the Main con supporting to customer, you don't need it.

Since many sub cons down the pyramid.

I supply to Aerospace MRO, and I don't have ISO or AS or that what IATF ?

This post has been edited by NautilusBW: Mar 5 2023, 01:47 PM

Its like kopi O lesen, the auditor quote for RMxx but they will handle everything. Still, every year few K's.

Yaiks, this is dangerous, if something happen your company might be blacklisted by the CB (Certification Body)

means the auditor kautim your documents for you?

Depends who you want to peddle your services to lah.

Kalau ada ISO pun buat susah how your real business gets done also no use.

Yeaps, but they offered it in the first place. Am looking into the proper way of applying & maintaining. Seems like resource dependent. I mean need to hire more people to make it look good.

4 year cycle, year 1 certification, year 2,3,4, surveillance, never ending cycle. Certification cost more, and it depends on your company size, they'll charge you by man-day.

Tedious yes, redundant yes, but once you get the hang of it, its just like clockwork.

Yea..

Honestly we are doing well bidding for works etc. just that this 1 specific client asking why dont have ISO / OHSAS certification.
Well i said our org is not big enough to hire many people to maintain it. We are doing civil works by the way.
We only hire base on project / contractual needs.

This post has been edited by DuFfz: Mar 5 2023, 01:53 PM

im pretty sure if SME's client that demand ISO quality services would expecting to pay higher

Dealt with a manufacturing company that has ISO certification. TONS OF PAPER WORK and covers many many things including work flow. High costs.

It is useful if you have business with INTERNATIONAL companies. That means they can skip a lot of certification requirements needed to do business with them. As close as Singapore & Thailand.

The bad is product and services costs will be much higher. So you will have a hard time getting chinaman business due to high costs, unless they are reselling/ repacking your business as part of theirs. so in their final presentation, they might say,

"products/ services are developed/ produced/ deployed in conjunction with ISO certified company."

that factory owner problem.

This year auditor come more like site visit watch watch then ciao edy kek

Must be nice food you provided for them

Well to me, the price that we quote is what we can deliver to them. Using your logic, my quote will definitely be lower than other certified company.
Increase the winning chance?

if got iso mean your product n quality is maintained well. in all aspect. cause most of the stuff need documented n records

Iso really useless and irrelevant nowadays

Depends.

For company that need business from larger corporation, may need to have ISO as requirement to do business.

For company that others really want to work with you, no need also can.

Can give tips how to answer if a large corporation asks why u dont get ISO certification?

Just like people who only have SPM but like to say they come from University of Hard Knocks

lol

Last time my old company wanna get tobacco corp Business, they ask for ISO

ISO is for show only. It's like spend hours of meeting everyday but work no progress.

Meaning?

Only if it's required by law

when you get more of this certification, more business more willing to do business with you, customer also feel satisfied.

But i do civil / construction works, cut throat industry, cheap No.1 .

i trust superbrand

I support. When talk about ISO, construction company will try to fulfill the so called requirement, ignoring the purpose of ISO in thr first place. Design drawing can become As Built Drawing. Get someone to sign. Change title block jau kau tim. Those files stay forever in cabinet. Wola~ we are good ISO company.

Anything under the sun can jalan selagi boleh
Like i mention ISO not cheap to maintan, construction business, unless you are well connected sentiasa ada job, then ok. Like 90% of companies once in a blue moon dapat job sedang-sedang

What you can do is just do 1 year ISO, then stop it.

You continue to do the SOPs and procedures, when customer audit you, they know you have things in order.

Many do like this also.

Cause maintain it not cheap in this type of economy.

During MCO, many many not continue it and now still can get the business.

Good idea also.

Does ISO include agriculture sector? Specifically animal feed.

I do export business to many countries. At first many friends who are in the same industry hated the process and thought it is waste of time. i dont blame them because they do not see further down the road.

if you are exporting to countries. some import regulations in respective countries require this paper. Therefore it is hard to get.

And it wasn't that of a bad idea because it purchaser will filter out ah chu ah kao who wanted to export out to the countries without any declaration or cert. aka white label people who think they can put anything in a bag, print the label using home printer and export to USA.

I think is very functional for export business. Local I produce sell to local market i think not so usefull.

This post has been edited by Red_rustyjelly: Mar 5 2023, 03:54 PM

I think yes..

IT different i guess

I also encountered this 15 years ago.

so many type of ISO, which type u tokking about

Business to business, yes it's useful, sometimes contracts even makes it mandatory.

This post has been edited by Quantum Geist: Mar 5 2023, 04:32 PM

I can agak the purpose of this thread ledi, we same industry

nak tak nak long run must have some sort of standard la if want to grow

but at the moment other construction company also pakai cable to get project one hahaha

Can u recommend which company provide this service? If i wanna make it for my biz. Thanks

good factory standard.

Sad right...

if your product involved laboratory process or any scientific equipment then ISO 17025 certificate is a must. traceability is a key to audit when anything gone wrong.

There are loads of them. I dont wana spill the beans.

Pm me. Prefer those who chase after client than I have to chase them when Im paying.

i once saw a few colleague joined that so-called department for ISO & document control ..... end up only hard work during the audit, paper work submission to BOD/Management -- then the rest makan, surfing internet and the end .... they asked u to update and continue the ISO -- gaji buta, for 3 years, during pandemic - dunno what ? ISO also done online, audit done online too !! omg ...

iso9001 is documentation. relevant for all industries.

iso 22000 is for food industry, it includes animal feed
iso 22002 is prp
iso 14000 is for greentech


anyway i insert brochure for u for your reference. not many consultant in msia will handle agri iso. nextac is a good consulting firm.


i know this coz i supply stikers to range pharma in sg buloh.


Attached File(s)
 PUB100412.pdf ( 924.99k ) Number of downloads: 8

Thanks man.

i dunno if sgs will certify these in malaysia but i do know range pharma uses the korean TUV SUD .

all the best

ISO verification is a big joke here, there are even agents out there provide services to help gaotim the docs 1-2months before ISO come do annual review

normal days, companies wont follow the ISO SOP

For companies to show their mettle on paper, it's worth the buck.

If you expect to really make use of the system and fly high performing all the time. Not likely. Especially in a very large scale company.

Smaller or Medium sized company may benefit from the standardisation, but without the right, competent people, it will likely go back to situation above.

The possible downside of having a management system, is people don't do anything and blames it all on a so called poor system, yet don't do anything to change the status quo. Myself included. As long as it doesn't affect my mental and financial health. Let it be.

Expensive...