Recently my water heater performance has degraded.

I am now getting just slightly warm water on maximum setting.

I used to get scalding hot water a few months ago.

Any brand replacement recommendations?

Joven

I have heard about this brand but have not used it before. Good and lasting?

Storage heater la unker if you want to be scalded.

either joven or panasonic. you cant go wrong with both of this brand

Don't quite like the storage heater concept.

Need to wait for the water to heat up.

But I am already using a Panasonic.

Just buy any cheapo china electric heater. They have snow in their country so they should be professionals when it comes to instant electrocution ic heaters.

This post has been edited by h4r8_kIlLeR: Jan 26 2023, 02:32 PM

still looks new, i like the slim design. the on/off button gets stuck after a few years use though

Joven ok punyah if you do not seek nice design or fancy feature. I pakai Alpha brand ok juga okok design got build in pump no rain shower which i really have no use of it since water pressure no good.

Yeah, my Panasonic only about 5 years old.

The button is working fine though.

Use joven la..

Where is ur chor yat till chor ng makan tered?

https://youtu.be/Bp3mc6ycNWw

This one

Warranty ended? Many years already?

My panasonic more than 10 years still working fine, only need to turn slightly more than the cool zone, if maximum memang panas gila.

For me i still go for pana, 2 electrolux sudah kaput after use for about 9 years, now both also change to pana. May be old stuffs was made more tough kot...

This post has been edited by pandah: Jan 26 2023, 02:38 PM

China domestic models is 6000W.

Malaysia model is 1800-2500W.

The former confirm heat up super fast & scalding hot.

Seems many of you are recommending Joven.

Seriously thinking about it.

My Malaysia-made Panasonic is rated 3,600W

Should get a new Heater every few years, for safety.

I think warranty ended a;ready. More than 5 years old.

I'm using Centon. Still working good; almost 10years already.

Just get back the Panasonic.

It is a good experience brand.

haier

I am thinking of changing brand.

post ur problem in kakiDIY and the experts there will help u how to debug and fix it.

It is not a no-go problem.

Just not hot enough for my liking.

thermostat problem
change new

Aha! Good suggestion. I think that is the problem as well.

in the case of a heater not churning out enough heated water, turning the water volume / pressure lower helps but it'll mean lesser water from the shower and may not work for some.

as for brands, Panasonic is a trusted choice although Joven, Alpha, Rinnai (gas) etc all good examples as well. Lemons do exist among good brands too as i had to replace my joven.......with a Pana - will check how it fares.

Joven buy online cheap cheap

panasonic the water pump really slow.

get alpha, joven or rubine

Not sure why Panasonic still have separate control to on/off and temp. Others just have one. Maybe they think user will forget the temp setting

I used an unknown brand (never heard and forget already) and also branded one. My unknown one last longer still. I use Joven, Alpha, Panasonics and now Toshiba. I can say they last long except I think Panasonic price on high side because of brand compare to others with same features.

This post has been edited by Zot: Jan 26 2023, 03:48 PM

I use smart solar

No need electricity n low maintenance every 2 year come one up keep

Already more than 15 years

This post has been edited by tikaram: Jan 26 2023, 03:51 PM

My main bedroom is using storage type. It is because the bathroom is designed for it with copper piping and bathtub with mixer. I bought Joven 35L model. Turning it on all the time significantly increases the electricity bill. If I turned off after use and want to use it in the evening, the water I felt like has lost significant heat.

So, I'm using it like normal instant water heater, turn it on before use and then off after use. The delay in hot water for me is not bad, Within one minute it is hot enough for me to shower.

First, try to see if can get it serviced, sometimes a simple component swap will fix your problem.

If not, I would 2nd everyone's suggestion for Joven. So far have not had problems with their products.

If you got money and want to be bougie, can get Stiebel Eltron heaters.

get any with DC pump

AC pump will have noise when operating


mine electrolux AC pump ...cheap but not hot enough eventhough max liao

like 39c when turned max

This post has been edited by fantasy1989: Jan 26 2023, 03:59 PM

Its the weather cold lah it will affect shower water lah

Get a DC pump and one with separate control for the pump can manual control the pump power.

iinm AC pump without separate control and pump is always ON although no water running. The sound anmoying then some ppl lazy to off heater power switch and not good for the motor

Haier dc pump

Give Joven a good consideration.
To me is really not bad.
You won't impress anyone with that basic design, but the reliability is very good.

Alpha water heater

6000w is 25amp. Normal socket is 13 amp. Round pin type is 15amp.
6000w will either trip the breaker burn your circuit together with your house.
China made really blow as big as they can.
Even your circuit can tahan 25amp, if anything goes wrong your trip to heaven is gonna be one way and express.

My house is installed with 3-phase electricity.

Is the ampere enough to support a 6,000W-rated water heater without tripping?

6000W in 3 phase and single phase is different.
No household water heater or electrical appliances with Sirim cert produce 3 phase products, maybe except AC, if not mistaken.
Electrocuted by single phase you still stand a chance, 3 phase the chances is slim.
All your house power points only use 1 phase. Either this room use red phase, next room use yellow phase another room use blue phase.

Joven did have a products that that use very powerful heater (more than 25A single phase) without storage tank. But they don't have Sirim cert, either it can't pass local regulation or it meant for small market they didn't bother to apply for the cert or it meant for oversea market.
If you insist to buy this products, which I have ask Joven and they quite reluctant to sell. You need to install a new breaker and pull and big ass cable to the water heater to support the load in single phase. Normal 3 pin plug you need 2.5 to 4mm for 13A. The big ass cable I talk about require 6 to 10mm.
https://joven-electric.com/product-category...t-water-heater/
Install such powerful water heater in single phase also difficult to balance between phases in your house. When you use the heater, 1 phase is much heavier then another 2 phases then your breaker might trip. Unless your house is big.

Oh, another advice is to install RCCB in your DB for the circuit of your water heater, don't rely on the ELCB alone.

This post has been edited by keyser soze: Jan 26 2023, 06:47 PM

I am a layman in electricity.

Is there a RCCB in my 3-phase DB?

Using Panasonic non-pump, lupa model liao. Good stuff.

I don't need pump because my house's water pressure is stronk.

Same. My house water pressure is strong too. No pump in my Panasonic water heater.

Yes, Joven as you are replacing a current Panasonic

This post has been edited by jojolicia: Jan 26 2023, 07:06 PM

Yes, that's a RCCB, just make sure the outgoing circuit is to your water heater or water heaters. You can do it by turning it off and see if your water heater still functioning or not.
The drawback is, it's very sensitive. Any small things not right it will trip. For the sake of your life, if the RCCB keep tripping just replace the water heater or the heating element that connect to this circuit.

This post has been edited by keyser soze: Jan 26 2023, 07:08 PM

Thanks. Appreciate the info.

Joven good. But if you want it to last very long , buy those without built in pump. All these water heater that i had in the past , its the water pump that goes faulty , the heater still working.
If you really need water pump , get an external dc pump from lazada or shopee and install yourself.

The thing about Toshiba electrical appliance is it was acquired by Midea in 2016. So basically you are getting a Midea unit but you pay Toshiba price.

I use Panasonic water heater. Probably will stick to same brand after in a few years time.

old stuff dont come with fail mechanism after x period

Or Alpha. Joven & Alpha used to be the same before each branched out under different names, if I’m not mistaken. Both Malaysian brands.

I support this comment. But get a DC model instead of AC. Cost a bit more but quieter and last longer.

These things are modular by design.

The service center near you should be able to send a technician to replace the appropriate module(s).

Mine at home. Ok what quite hensem

Get solar central heater.

Joven ok. Deka rubbish. Currently using Centon, fast water heat up. M

Been using alpha DC pump. Close to 20 years no issues so far.

Joven lasts more than ten years.

Parking

Ahhhh the good old days when I growing up as a kid. Mom will heat up kettle full of hot water and pour into baldi mix with some tap water

Memang syok Mandi like this young time that you have to budget the water so u can rinse the soap off and at last take remaining water in the baldi and pour all over yourself as final rinse and deprive your sibling of any more balance of water hahahaahahaa

Only Pana have built in 15ma rcd

you are easy to pleased
that is very gooding

No joke, I'm using kettle only but whenever I have fever. I like to take cold shower in the morning. Habit growing up using well water early morning

this type very dangerous, easily explode and burn if you forget, no auto cut off

last time few day memang air supply macam very cold, thats might be the reason why you dont feel warm.

also if you insist want to change, my votes goes to panasonic

This post has been edited by zerorating: Jan 26 2023, 08:59 PM

Hahaha as long it’s functional and reliable la. Gone thru many fancy looking heaters already. All spoil in less than 3-5 years

joven dc pump

Sharing some comparison info I got from multiple salespersons when researching which instant water heater I should buy last time. Some info from the salespersons sounds like hearsay, so u might want to do some fact checking.


1. Jap Brand | Panasonic

Advantage:
- Produce by a reputable company.
- Water heater parts feels good quality.
- Push start function to turn on, some prefer this over turning on water using a stop valve.

Disadvantage:
- Pricey, one of the most expensive instant water heater in the market, if not the most expensive (comparing with other brands with equivalent specs and range).
- Only 1 year warranty.
- Panasonic handsets have one of the lowest water flow in the market, with very small nozzles that shoots needle-light water spray, quite painful if water pressure is strong. So if u like strong water flow, this might be the wrong brand for you. But good thing with low water flow is that u save water, and also get hotter water (lower water flow = higher output water temperature).
* U can solve this low water flow issue by using non-Panasonic handsets with Panasonic water heaters to get higher water flow, but your output water won't be hot as before since most, if not all Panasonic water heaters are only 3.6kW (lowest heating element rating in the market).

Remarks: Get Panasonic if u have higher budget and u don't mind lower water flow handsets with needle-light water spray in exchange for water saving and hotter water.


2. Malaysian Brands | Joven, Alpha, Centon - apparently these 3 companies' directors are all relatives, but split due to family squabbles. Technology, quality and parts should be quite similar. Alpha and Centon are said to be jointly manufacturing instant water heaters for reputable OEM brands like Rinnai and Sharp too.

Advantage:
- Around longer than China brands, hence maybe more experience? Instant water heater's built-in pumps were apparently first started by Centon long time ago, then this technology is shared with Alpha and soon followed by other brands.
- All-rounder in terms of quality and price, in between China brands and Panasonic.

Disadvantage:
- Not as cheap as China brands.

Remarks: Go with Malaysian brands if u want an all-rounder instant water heater, not too pricey yet reliable. The salesperson recommended me to go with Centon as they have hotter heating element rating (from 4.2kW, to 5.4kW for colder Genting weathers, even up to 7.0kW models), while Joven and Alpha models are mostly only at 3.6kW to 3.8kW. So if u like hotter water and to plan ahead for cold rainy weathers, go for Centon. I chose Centon too because I did a quick search on Shopee and found that Centon has the most positive reviews / ratings amongst all the instant water heater brands.


3. China Brands | Midea, Haier, Toshiba - Toshiba water heater division was apparently bought over by Midea, so that Midea can sell their made-in-China water heater with a higher price using the existing Toshiba Japanese brand power.

Advantage:
- Damn cheap, maybe too suspiciously cheap.
- Can easily get from anywhere, a lot of online sellers (eg. Shopee, Lazada) are throwing price for these China branded instant water heaters.

Disadvantage:
- Subpar quality, salespersons even warn me not to expect China brands to last as long as Panasonic or Malaysian brands. True or not, I don't know.

Remarks: Go for this if you are tight on budget, and prioritize price over quality (eg. for your tenant, not self-use. ) But they are still SIRIM and Suruhanjaya Tenaga certified regardless, so should still be safe to use as long as your water heater installations and wiring / piping requirements are up to standard.


Feel free to correct me if any info are not accurate.

This post has been edited by Selene Yeo: Jan 27 2023, 12:39 AM

That RCCB should be the main RCCB for the whole house. If you check Suruhanjaya Tenaga's guideline, it should be rated 100mA for both single and 3-phase.
300mA I think is too high, which can easily kill you if you have this much current leakage from the water heater.

ST's guideline also says you need to have another 10mA RCCB for each water heater, as there's high risk of electrocution due to presence of water, which I don't see in your DB.

Those little ones are MCB, which trips on overload.

There's a sifu (can't remember his username)...ceo-something who posted good explanation.

Disclaimer: I'm a layman.



This post has been edited by mushigen: Jan 27 2023, 01:12 AM

These are very good guides, guys.

Thanks for the info.

last time i cincai bought elba, it last forever

after so many years the built in pump rosak, heater still working like new.

so now i use separate water pump install after water tank.

better buy separate pump n heater.

My house water pressure is strong.

That's why I bought the Panasonic non-pump model.

if thats the case just buy back Panasonic no pump model

its cheap.

Many here recommended Joven. I am still thinking about it.

stay with Panasonic

What is the reason may I ask?

I know that Toshiba is in financial trouble that forced them to sell several divisions. Midea controls the home appliances (about 80%). I know Midea is also manufacturing water heater for others too but that is not necessary means all competing brands the same. Midea has been doing this long time already but only now selling more on own brand. Each company has their own designs and specifications. If not models from every company will have same feature. Basic design of water heater is the same but electronically the design is different.

I'm in manufacturing business and this practice is common. Many European brands like Tefal, Electrolux, Moulinex, etc are made in China. Now many products component are moving out of China because of tax due to US-China relation. Many China and Taiwan based company are moving operation to Malaysia indeed.

I bought Toshiba because it was on sale and has cheaper price compare to other brands with similar feature.

I also bought toshiba.. Now using it 2 years already.. Still ok

Panasonic have jet pump inside model


DC pump also available


https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5431289

My joven 5 months spoiled

The lesser components, the better. Midea single knob control ftw!

This post has been edited by Atrocious: Jun 28 2024, 07:25 AM

Stay away from joven
Try ribune

I think you meant "Rubine."

This post has been edited by beverlykho: Jun 28 2024, 07:36 AM

Recently changed to this CENTON Atlantis Rainshower. Cool part bout this instant water heater set is that its rainshower diverter has an additional faucet output (in addition to output warm water to the shower handset or the rainshower head). Especially useful if u need to collect a bucket of warm water or wash your leg without removing the hanging shower handset; or for practicing Muslims, can use this function for wuduk (washing up before prayers comfortably with warm water).

I bought it online during Pay Day Sale offer + cashback vouchers, reasonably cheap for a rainshower instant water heater, also very fast delivery. U can get it here - Shopee / Lazada

Hi All

Any comment about the LIVINOX TS series water heater ?

Hearsay from a salesperson I spoke to is that Livinox does not manufacture their own water heater, but got a low cost OEM manufacturer to produce for them and mark up quite a high price in the market, and if I remember correctly, the salesperson mentioned it might be the same low cost manufacturer that OEM instant water heaters for Electrolux, Rinnai, and Acson (yes, even this aircon brand is trying to penetrate the instant water heater market now).

Be prepare to pay a premium for most of these brands that OEM their products (as opposed to manufacturing the products themselves), and just make sure to read their warranties' terms and conditions to check who is the one that will be providing the aftersales service - is it the brands themselves, or maybe subcon to someone else? not sure. And how long after u purchase will they be providing the aftersales service, especially for the brands which just started selling instant water heaters recently like Livinox and Acson, just in case they discontinue selling instant water heaters after a while if it is not profitable.


Some price check for u to compare between the brands mentioned above:

- Livinox | Shopee link here
- Electrolux | Shopee link here
- Rinnai | Shopee link here
- Acson | Shopee link here

Easily lasts 10-15 years with the only problem is limescale at shower head. Easy to buy ori shower hose/head parts to replace.

Hello otai2, I'm staying in Condo currently, and would like to replace my previous non-pump water heater due it being not hot enough.

Current model is Joven SA15m, just wondering if I upgrade to Joven SB11iP-RS Water Heater, is that going to be helpful and increase the temperature?

Alternatively, Im considering ALPHA - SMART 18i too.

Hopefully I can get more opinion on which model to select as the new replacement. Thanks

Panasonic or Joven are reputable brands. I use 2 Joven units for nearly 10 yrs and still working.
Just because yr current Panasonic shower having issue, doesn't mean they are no good. Just bad luck. 5-10yrs is considered reliable already.
3600 watt is most common for us unless yiu live at Genting or Cameron, then you need 5000 watt unit or you have crocodile skin.