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 Moving from IT industry to Academia, Question for those working in Academia

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TSMelawati
post Dec 1 2022, 02:43 PM, updated 2y ago

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I have been working for many years in the IT industry and have spent my career in large MNCs and startups, spanning roles in Software Development, Enterprise Apps implementation, Product strategy & development, Marketing & Management roles.

I plan to take my Master in Information Systems at a local uni in early 2023 and transition into a 2nd career in academia after that. I enjoy sharing my knowledge and hope to be able to encourage more young adults to take up varied careers in the IT industry. Background - I am joining the Master’s program via the MQA APEL A T7 route, if that makes a difference to your answers.

Questions for those working in Academia …
- Do universities view those coming from the industry favourably ? How easy/difficult would it be to get a job ? Esp in the area of IS
- Any views on making the transition, challenges, gotchas ? Esp if you / someone you know has made a similar transition
- Any advantage of getting the Master’s from a reputable local private uni vs a AUS uni based in MY ? The AUS uni cost 3x more doh.gif I plan to teach in private unis in the near future and am wondering if this makes a difference.
- How much of age discrimination exists in academia ? I am obviously on the “wiser” side category biggrin.gif
- Any other relevant insights welcomed too





Blofeld
post Dec 1 2022, 05:46 PM

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1. They have preference for those coming from the industry with several years of experience.

2. Maybe some will get a culture shock with the unreasonable demands of students and parents today.

3. Depends on where you apply. If you apply our local IPTA/IPTS, it doesn't make any difference which uni you graduated from, prestigious or not prestigious. You will still get the same pay. This is unlike applying to some top ranking world universities. But you will never know that one day you might want to work in some prestigious universities overseas.

4. No age discrimination.

5. Working in academia is as hectic as in the industry. You will not rest during the weekend because you need to spend time writing papers. The only difference I find is that the work is more interesting. This is unless if you apply to some small college where you are not needed to write papers.
TSMelawati
post Dec 1 2022, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(Blofeld @ Dec 1 2022, 05:46 PM)
1. They have preference for those coming from the industry with several years of experience.

2. Maybe some will get a culture shock with the unreasonable demands of students and parents today.

3. Depends on where you apply. If you apply our local IPTA/IPTS, it doesn't make any difference which uni you graduated from, prestigious or not prestigious. You will still get the same pay. This is unlike applying to some top ranking world universities. But you will never know that one day you might want to work in some prestigious universities overseas.

4. No age discrimination.

5. Working in academia is as hectic as in the industry. You will not rest during the weekend because you need to spend time writing papers. The only difference I find is that the work is more interesting. This is unless if you apply to some small college where you are not needed to write papers.
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Thanks for the insider insights. Good to have the view of someone who's also transitioned from industry to academia. I was expecting "hectic level" to be lower :-)

Overall, sounds like more +points than -points, except item 2. Will cross that bridge later ...

Could you elaborate on item 5 ? i.e. writing papers for purposes of research ? Which aspect of academia do you find interesting?
Blofeld
post Dec 2 2022, 01:09 AM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 1 2022, 07:17 PM)
Thanks for the insider insights. Good to have the view of someone who's also transitioned from industry to academia. I was expecting "hectic level" to be lower :-)

Overall, sounds like more +points than -points, except item 2. Will cross that bridge later ...

Could you elaborate on item 5 ? i.e. writing papers for purposes of research ? Which aspect of academia do you find interesting?
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Writing papers and reading are more interesting to me than performing those industrial administrative task. There are also admin tasks to be performed as a lecturer but it's not as bad as the industry unless you are involved in MQA related matters.

Depends on which uni you work. If you are working in a research uni, you will spend your weekend writing papers, reviewing papers, discussing research topic (zoom meeting) with your co-authors from other unis, and perhaps preparing notes/lessons for classes. As far as I know, I know some peers who don't rest at all during the weekends.

If you are working in a small college, you don't have to carry out all those research related activities.
TSMelawati
post Dec 2 2022, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(Blofeld @ Dec 2 2022, 01:09 AM)
Writing papers and reading are more interesting to me than performing those industrial administrative task. There are also admin tasks to be performed as a lecturer but it's not as bad as the industry unless you are involved in MQA related matters.

Depends on which uni you work. If you are working in a research uni, you will spend your weekend writing papers, reviewing papers, discussing research topic (zoom meeting) with your co-authors from other unis, and perhaps preparing notes/lessons for classes. As far as I know, I know some peers who don't rest at all during the weekends.

If you are working in a small college, you don't have to carry out all those research related activities.
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hmm.gif More things for me to consider when the time comes. tq.
Human Nature
post Dec 2 2022, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 2 2022, 09:16 AM)
hmm.gif More things for me to consider when the time comes. tq.
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You might wanna check this chart out too:
https://twitter.com/unlazy_susan/status/1407113654076510230


TSMelawati
post Dec 2 2022, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Dec 2 2022, 01:08 PM)
You might wanna check this chart out too:
https://twitter.com/unlazy_susan/status/1407113654076510230
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Talk about an eye chart ! Thanks, very insightful as well.

What a multi faceted role! I see a lot of transferable skills from Industry to Academia and vice-versa. Lecturers should be better compensated with this amount of responsibilities ...
TSMelawati
post Dec 2 2022, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Dec 2 2022, 01:08 PM)
You might wanna check this chart out too:
https://twitter.com/unlazy_susan/status/1407113654076510230
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From a Malaysian private uni perspective, what is a typical breakdown of time / effort spent on Teaching vs Research vs Service (based on the chart) for a lecturer with a Master's degree ?

I suspect the answer is probably "it depends" but if anyone can provide some insight and context, that would be helpful


Human Nature
post Dec 2 2022, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 2 2022, 02:25 PM)
From a Malaysian private uni perspective, what is a typical breakdown of time / effort spent on Teaching vs Research vs Service (based on the chart) for a lecturer with a Master's degree ?

I suspect the answer is probably "it depends" but if anyone can provide some insight and context, that would be helpful
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If you are required to pursue phd, i’d put 60% research, 30% teaching and 10% administration. And as you get more senior, less on the teaching basket.

This post has been edited by Human Nature: Dec 2 2022, 02:36 PM
TSMelawati
post Dec 2 2022, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Dec 2 2022, 02:35 PM)
If you are required to pursue phd, i’d put 60% research, 30% teaching and 10% administration. And as you get more senior, less on the teaching basket.
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I see hmm.gif Sorry, a few more newbie questions ....

- Do most uni's require their lecturers (with a Masters) to pursue a phd ? I guess this is to help the unis with their ranking too.
- Would you be required to pursue your phd with the university where you are employed ? Assuming your research area has a supervisor available in your university I guess.
- Is the cost to pursue the phd at the university you are employed at subsidized/discounted/waived ?
Human Nature
post Dec 2 2022, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 2 2022, 03:35 PM)
I see hmm.gif Sorry, a few more newbie questions ....

- Do most uni's require their lecturers (with a Masters) to pursue a phd ? I guess this is to help the unis with their ranking too.
Depends on the uni. Good/higher tier ones will. or if you are from industry and have certain certification/skill, then can be accounted for.

- Would you be required to pursue your phd with the university where you are employed ? Assuming your research area has a supervisor available in your university I guess.
Not necessary.

- Is the cost to pursue the phd at the university you are employed at subsidized/discounted/waived ?
Depends on the uni. The one that I know, yes. Waived.

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As above

This post has been edited by Human Nature: Dec 2 2022, 03:41 PM
TSMelawati
post Dec 2 2022, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Dec 2 2022, 03:40 PM)
As above
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Thanks, good info. Discovered a lot of stuff I did not know today. thumbup.gif
ike.tan
post Dec 2 2022, 07:48 PM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 1 2022, 02:43 PM)
I have been working for many years in the IT industry and have spent my career in large MNCs and startups, spanning roles in Software Development, Enterprise Apps implementation, Product strategy & development, Marketing & Management roles.

I plan to take my Master in Information Systems at a local uni in early 2023 and transition into a 2nd career in academia after that. I enjoy sharing my knowledge and hope to be able to encourage more young adults to take up varied careers in the IT industry. Background - I am joining the Master’s program via the MQA APEL A T7 route, if that makes a difference to your answers.

Questions for those working in Academia …
- Do universities view those coming from the industry favourably ? How easy/difficult would it be to get a job ? Esp in the area of IS
- Any views on making the transition, challenges, gotchas ? Esp if you / someone you know has made a similar transition
- Any advantage of getting the Master’s from a reputable local private uni vs a AUS uni based in MY ? The AUS uni cost 3x more  doh.gif  I plan to teach in private unis in the near future and am wondering if this makes a difference.
- How much of age discrimination exists in academia ? I am obviously on the “wiser” side category  biggrin.gif
- Any other relevant insights welcomed too
*
I will not look at the other replies from all my fellow academics yet so that I will give an unsullied and unbiased response.

From a Pure Private University perspective:

- Do universities view those coming from the industry favourably ? How easy/difficult would it be to get a job ? Esp in the area of IS
Depends on the university. Whether it is Public Uni (IPTA) or Private Uni (IPTS) or whether it is more research centric or teaching centric. Some universities are now going into the ranking game and thus look for for research-oriented staff with PhD as a minimum. Some others value work experience over academic qualifications.
The short answer would be YES. We look at industry experience and would like to hire candidates with industry expertise. It would be fairly easy to get a job provided you do not expect the same salary scale as industry.

- Any views on making the transition, challenges, gotchas ? Esp if you / someone you know has made a similar transition
I was from the industry but I was exposed to training at a very early stage, so for me the transition was smooth. Depends again on the university. I was fortunate enough to enter a very practical-based course/university where there are no lecture-tutorial divide. Everything happened in the computer lab itself and it was very hands-on. The biggest challenge would be:

- Paperwork. Some universities have a LOT of paperwork in terms of audit trails. It is not just marking but also having to map the assignment and assessment to learning outcomes and programme outcomes. All these are part and parcel of the Malaysian Qualifications Agency (MQA) process. The Malaysian Qualifications Agency (MQA) is a statutory body in Malaysia set up under the Malaysian Qualifications Act 2007 and under the Ministry of Higher Education to monitor and oversee the quality assurance practices, approval and accreditation of academic programs in the country.

- Research - Some universities expect you to publish research annually. There is of course a pure teaching option but that basically means heavy teaching workload.

- Any advantage of getting the Master’s from a reputable local private uni vs a AUS uni based in MY ? The AUS uni cost 3x more doh.gif I plan to teach in private unis in the near future and am wondering if this makes a difference.
Personally, it really doesn't matter. Unless you are looking to go lecture in a university abroad. But that will be more towards your PhD. The thing is that you MUST consider PHD as an option as most universities are now moving into that direction. With your work experience, it will give you added value. I did my PhD in a local university. No difference. Only thing to consider is that 'some' local universities do make it a little difficult to complete your studies.

- How much of age discrimination exists in academia ? I am obviously on the “wiser” side category biggrin.gif
NONE AT ALL. I have a colleague who was the General Manager of a LARGE Corporation in Malaysia. After he retired, he did his PhD and he was well into his 60s. Students LOVE him because he doesn't teach/lecture as much as share his experiences. Staff all seek his advice and pearls of wisdom.

- Any other relevant insights welcomed too
If possible do a Master's by Research. That will enable you to very quickly go into a PhD at the end of the day. Try not to take shortcuts like Masters by Practice and then go into a DBA. The more established universities does not recognize DBAs unless it is business-oriented.

Got for it if you are not looking to boost your wallet. It is a very rewarding industry to be in. My major gripes are only the paperwork which is something that people from the industry do not really like. Haha. But that's my two cents worth.

Feel free to drop me a note or message - and I can give you more advice especially on the Masters Programme.
ike.tan
post Dec 2 2022, 07:53 PM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 2 2022, 03:35 PM)
I see hmm.gif Sorry, a few more newbie questions ....

- Do most uni's require their lecturers (with a Masters) to pursue a phd ? I guess this is to help the unis with their ranking too.
- Would you be required to pursue your phd with the university where you are employed ? Assuming your research area has a supervisor available in your university I guess.
- Is the cost to pursue the phd at the university you are employed at subsidized/discounted/waived ?
*
The larger universities - YES. Especially the ones who are pursuing the ranking game. But then again, they would expect you to already have a PhD to apply for the job.

Er. the second question is a little harder to answer. Generally, it is not so much required but it is more of whether it is easier for both you and university. There are pros and cons. Generally, I do not feel that is is appropriate to study at the university that you are employed with for the only reason that your supervisors MAY be your colleagues. It is like a conflict of interest scenario. This s especially so for PhD. However, the university would like that cause it means headcount is up and there are more research output from you as a student. Again, this depends on the university. Most usually would subsidize you if you are studying with them.

Last question - depends on the university. Mine was 100% subsidized for an external PhD. Some colleagues are subsidized or discounted for internal masters programmes.
ike.tan
post Dec 2 2022, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 2 2022, 02:25 PM)
From a Malaysian private uni perspective, what is a typical breakdown of time / effort spent on Teaching vs Research vs Service (based on the chart) for a lecturer with a Master's degree ?

I suspect the answer is probably "it depends" but if anyone can provide some insight and context, that would be helpful
*
It depends again (Haha). Take for example Taylors. You have a choice to be in the University side or the College entity. If you are within the university entity, you must have a certain percentage of research and teaching. If you are in the college entity, you are mostly teaching but the workload would be more than a university lecturer. That's the same with most universities.

As a rule of thumb, you can either be in pure academic or handle some administrative job like programme leader/director. A normal academic staff would have around 12-18 hours of teaching per week depending on institution. This can translate to maybe 2-4 classes per week. This would account for around 40-60% teaching. and the rest would be research. If you are pursuing your PhD, you may have reduced hours. It also depends at what academic grade you are coming in at. Academic grades are like Lecturer, Senior Lecturer, Associate Prof and Full Prof. Each with its own ratio of research/teaching.

Master's degree would put you firmly under lecturer (or maybe assistant lecturer) grade which is more teaching rather than research. Doing your PhD will reduce your teaching hours but it may not be by much. This all depends on the institution actually.
ike.tan
post Dec 2 2022, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Dec 2 2022, 01:08 PM)
You might wanna check this chart out too:
https://twitter.com/unlazy_susan/status/1407113654076510230
*
HAHAHA - I like this very much!

Depending on university - you also have to factor in going for education fairs, open days, counselling and meeting with parents. This may be a very Malaysian thing (although I know some Hong Kong unis also expects their academic staff to do the same)
Human Nature
post Dec 2 2022, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(ike.tan @ Dec 2 2022, 08:02 PM)
HAHAHA - I like this very much!

Depending on university - you also have to factor in going for education fairs, open days, counselling and meeting with parents. This may be a very Malaysian thing (although I know some Hong Kong unis also expects their academic staff to do the same)
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Yes right. It is getting more and more
TSMelawati
post Dec 2 2022, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(ike.tan @ Dec 2 2022, 07:48 PM)
I will not look at the other replies from all my fellow academics yet so that I will give an unsullied and unbiased response.

From a Pure Private University perspective:

- Do universities view those coming from the industry favourably ? How easy/difficult would it be to get a job ? Esp in the area of IS
Depends on the university. Whether it is Public Uni (IPTA) or Private Uni (IPTS) or whether it is more research centric or teaching centric. Some universities are now going into the ranking game and thus look for for research-oriented staff with PhD as a minimum. Some others value work experience over academic qualifications.
The short answer would be YES. We look at industry experience and would like to hire candidates with industry expertise. It would be fairly easy to get a job provided you do not expect the same salary scale as industry.

- Any views on making the transition, challenges, gotchas ? Esp if you / someone you know has made a similar transition
I was from the industry but I was exposed to training at a very early stage, so for me the transition was smooth. Depends again on the university. I was fortunate enough to enter a very practical-based course/university where there are no lecture-tutorial divide. Everything happened in the computer lab itself and it was very hands-on. The biggest challenge would be:

- Paperwork. Some universities have a LOT of paperwork in terms of audit trails. It is not just marking but also having to map the assignment and assessment to learning outcomes and programme outcomes. All these are part and parcel of the Malaysian Qualifications Agency (MQA) process. The Malaysian Qualifications Agency (MQA) is a statutory body in Malaysia set up under the Malaysian Qualifications Act 2007 and under the Ministry of Higher Education to monitor and oversee the quality assurance practices, approval and accreditation of academic programs in the country.

- Research - Some universities expect you to publish research annually. There is of course a pure teaching option but that basically means heavy teaching workload.

- Any advantage of getting the Master’s from a reputable local private uni vs a AUS uni based in MY ? The AUS uni cost 3x more  doh.gif  I plan to teach in private unis in the near future and am wondering if this makes a difference.
Personally, it really doesn't matter. Unless you are looking to go lecture in a university abroad. But that will be more towards your PhD. The thing is that you MUST consider PHD as an option as most universities are now moving into that direction. With your work experience, it will give you added value. I did my PhD in a local university. No difference. Only thing to consider is that 'some' local universities do make it a little difficult to complete your studies.

- How much of age discrimination exists in academia ? I am obviously on the “wiser” side category  biggrin.gif
NONE AT ALL. I have a colleague who was the General Manager of a LARGE Corporation in Malaysia. After he retired, he did his PhD and he was well into his 60s. Students LOVE him because he doesn't teach/lecture as much as share his experiences. Staff all seek his advice and pearls of wisdom. 

- Any other relevant insights welcomed too
If possible do a Master's by Research. That will enable you to very quickly go into a PhD at the end of the day. Try not to take shortcuts like Masters by Practice and then go into a DBA. The more established universities does not recognize DBAs unless it is business-oriented.

Got for it if you are not looking to boost your wallet. It is a very rewarding industry to be in. My major gripes are only the paperwork which is something that people from the industry do not really like. Haha. But that's my two cents worth.

Feel free to drop me a note or message - and I can give you more advice especially on the Masters Programme.
*
Dr Ike - appreciate the detailed insight. I am digesting all of yr inputs and also the others before this. We should probably get this post pinned for those looking to transition into academia in the future.

What u hv highlighted will be a good checklist in deciding which uni to work for ….
1 - Paperwork / audit trails / mapping for MQA. This sounds like a nightmare if the uni goes overboard.
2 - Publish research annually vs pure teaching aka heavy workload

Unfortunately, a Masters by Research is not an option for me as I am coming in via the MQA APEL-A L7 route which states specifically that i have to do Masters via coursework or mixed mode only.

I will ping you later to discuss more …. thanks for the offer.








TSMelawati
post Dec 2 2022, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(ike.tan @ Dec 2 2022, 08:00 PM)
It depends again (Haha). Take for example Taylors. You have a choice to be in the University side or the College entity. If you are within the university entity, you must have a certain percentage of research and teaching. If you are in the college entity, you are mostly teaching but the workload would be more than a university lecturer. That's the same with most universities.

As a rule of thumb, you can either be in pure academic or handle some administrative job like programme leader/director. A normal academic staff would have around 12-18 hours of teaching per week depending on institution. This can translate to maybe 2-4 classes per week. This would account for around 40-60% teaching. and the rest would be research. If you are pursuing your PhD, you may have reduced hours. It also depends at what academic grade you are coming in at. Academic grades are like Lecturer, Senior Lecturer, Associate Prof and Full Prof. Each with its own ratio of research/teaching.

Master's degree would put you firmly under lecturer (or maybe assistant lecturer) grade which is more teaching rather than research. Doing your PhD will reduce your teaching hours but it may not be by much. This all depends on the institution actually.
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From an outsiders perspective, doing a phd seems like a better “deal” since u have a lighter teaching workload so u can do some research, subsidized/waived phd tuition fees and at the end of the day, you get to move up the ladder with a phd. I am sure there are other nuances that i am probably not seeing right now being an outsider …. But i now understand the workings in academia way better that when i first posted these questions yesterday nod.gif
ike.tan
post Dec 2 2022, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(Melawati @ Dec 2 2022, 09:41 PM)
Dr Ike - appreciate the detailed insight. I am digesting all of yr inputs and also the others before this. We should probably get this post pinned for those looking to transition into academia in the future.

What u hv highlighted will be a good checklist in deciding which uni to work for ….
1 - Paperwork / audit trails / mapping for MQA. This sounds like a nightmare if the uni goes overboard.
2 - Publish research annually vs pure teaching aka heavy workload

Unfortunately, a Masters by Research is not an option for me as I am coming in via the MQA APEL-A L7 route which states specifically that i have to do Masters via coursework or mixed mode only.

I will ping you later to discuss more …. thanks for the offer.
*
1 - Paperwork / audit trails / mapping for MQA. This sounds like a nightmare if the uni goes overboard.
It is actually arguable that a good university practices all the necessary process and procedures for quality assurance practice. It is just that most people from the industry UNLESS you are from the accounts and audit line, would find this quite unsettling and tedious. Haha. it is the same as software developers who are required to add in a lot of comments and document their development trail. Most of the big uni also has ISO and internal audits to ensure best practices and strict adherences to QA measures.

2 - Publish research annually vs pure teaching aka heavy workload
Yeah - just ask for expectations. And for your promotion opportunities from an academic standpoint. Younger universities are a bit more forgiving than established high ranked universities.

I would then strongly advise you to go mixed-mode then. At least you will get a taste of research for future purposes. You technically do not need by coursework if you are from the industry as you have all the technical knowledge.

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