41:38 So Pharaoh asked his officials, “Can we find a man like Joseph, one in whom the Spirit of God is present?”
Genesis

27:18 The Lord replied to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;
Number

4:8 Later Daniel entered (whose name is Belteshazzar after the name of my god, and in whom there is a spirit of the holy gods). I recounted the dream for him as well, 5:11 There is a man in your kingdom who has within him a spirit of the holy gods. In the days of your father, he proved to have insight, discernment, and wisdom like that of the gods. King Nebuchadnezzar your father appointed him chief of the magicians, astrologers, wise men, and diviners. 12 Thus there was found in this man Daniel, whom the king renamed Belteshazzar, an extraordinary spirit, knowledge, and skill to interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve difficult problems. Now summon Daniel, and he will disclose the interpretation.” 13 So Daniel was brought in before the king. The king said to Daniel, “Are you that Daniel who is one of the captives of Judah, whom my father the king brought from Judah? 14 I have heard about you, how there is a spirit of the gods in you, and how you have insight, discernment, and extraordinary wisdom. 6:3 Now this Daniel was distinguishing himself above the other supervisors and the satraps, for he had an extraordinary spirit. In fact, the king intended to appoint him over the entire kingdom.
Daniel

so?

I incline to believe that all believer is saved the same way, either OT or NT. and HS indwelling in all believer, OT or NT

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 12:30 PM

I agree that they were saved by their faith but scripture is consistent in it's truth. Look at the whole passage in hebrews 11.

But before this, Christ our Lord stated this truth

John 3:3 (New International Version) - Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

He told that to Nicodemus, not just any teacher but a Master teacher of Israel. He is under the old covenant.

Therefore;

If you read in Hebrews 11:39 - 40 (NIV) These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

What Hebrews 11:39-40 is saying is that these OT saint did not received what had been promised, until Christ came. What is the context of this promise?



The passage here tells us it's their promised Salvation. Again you see the phrase "They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance". Verse 16 tells us the answer of what this promise is.

Now the question that begs the answer is a mystery.

If they weren't saved until Christ's coming, where were they held?

This I don't know. Bible didn't say, I dare not say.

There are quite an argument on this but for me it is not important.

What's important is that Judas wasn't saved as implied by bro Desmond.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 6 2023, 01:03 PM

first thing, they died in faith, so their salvation is secured.

Second thing, this is talking about savior which is promised to abraham. and abraham did see jesus and its day and he rejoice John 8:56

now, i am not sure how this can be tied to salvation.

Anyway, what i said is Judas is onced saved. which you throw out the Pentecost verse saying no salvation prior to that. Which is not biblical

Throughout bible, OT and NT, men and women is commended for their faith and work resulted from faith. Only

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 01:15 PM

I'm not throwing out anything. The Holy Spirit can be filled in the person for God's work of miracles. Being filled with Holy Spirit is not the same as the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Judas like other apostles was filled with the HS but does not have the indwelling of HS because Christ has not ascended to Heaven yet at that point.

For a person to be save means He/She has the indwelling of HS.




And here comes the question.

Can a person have the Holy Spirit and Satan together in the same body? For me, No.

Satan entered into Judas, mind you.

So how could he have been saved?

when satan entered judas is recorded during the last supper correct? prior to that Judas already sold jesus to priest for 30 silver coins right?. which mean he already forsake the name who save him. which mean HS is no longer with him

hope that answer your question

So you can agree the HS was no longer with him, this means the filling the Holy Spirit comes and go. This is what we mean, Holy Spirit coming on the person. Being filled with HS does not mean the person is saved.

The indwelling of the HS on the other hand is one time, a result of saving grace upon receiving Jesus into our lives .

Judas did not have the indwelling of the HS, that is quite established in scripture. That is key to indicate whether he is saved or not.

Judas have never believe Jesus to be the messiah. You did not agree. I can show you otherwise.

Judas only see Jesus as a Rabbi but never as Son of God or Messiah.

He already rejected Jesus as Christ quite a while even before the 30 silver coins.

if you mean that judas called jesus rabbi, then afraid that Peter also called jesus rabbi

Rabbi is a term at that time refer to teacher, it is not an occupation but a tittle given by jews to person they follow

like i say before this, it is perfectly possible for man to lost their salvation after being born again. there are numerous cases in bible, OT and NT

of course you will disagree on this, but anyway.

The 11 apostles all at one point called Jesus as Rabbi but they also called Jesus as Lord, Messiah, Son of God, etc. Hence they recognize who Jesus is.

Judas as we see in the bible, usually call and recognize Jesus as Rabbi and nothing else. <===This.

This show he never see Jesus as Son of God or Messiah. This is the indication he was never saved.

It's not for me to say who can lose their salvation. Only God knows who is save or not.

All I know from Bible God wants his people to be fully assured that they are saved by his Son. The key is to look away from what they do...(not about doing) but to look to Jesus Christ to save.

The devil has successfully convince some to look away from Christ and to look at themselves to be saved.

This is why I endeavour so hard to fight this.

Salvation has always been by faith in God, be it in the OT or NT.
Look at Romans 4 again about the justification of Abraham.
It's all about faith in God and he was imputed righteousness and justified.
Paul then concludes this with our faith in Jesus.
It's all about faith in God.



This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 6 2023, 02:56 PM

All of that is conditional on faith

And keeping of faith. And endure till the end

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 03:01 PM

I never deny it's by faith.

But look at

Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40.

They didn't receive what was promised until Christ came.

The wordings "didn't receive" is there stated very clearly.

What happens when we reach the Kingdom of Heaven and we find Judas there ? Rejoice or no rejoice ?

100% sure, he is not there.

Yes, this I agree.

If Judas didnt kiss our Lord Jesus at the garden to point him out to the guards, who would ?

Is that not faith? You just described faith.


You don't need to receive to have faith. Unless you are word faith proponent.

Dunno but quite sure, Satan regretted doing that.

What I'm talking about is on timeline. They didn't receive it immediately. Not until Christ came. That is stated in hebrews 11.

Hebrews 11

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,
40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

See verse 13 & 39.

Verse 40 tell us when they received it.