FYI…
The common rule of thumb is unless you can substantiate your claims FROM THE BIBLE, or if you claims are AGAINST what Bible verses have claimed , and you are in denial of it’s truth,
You’re not helping Christians learn and instead spreading false information…

You may ignore the truth, attract those like minded.. but I’m sure those who look for truth would know as it’s clearly written


And fyi, whatever Bible verse you used to explain your commentaries and opinions, were all clearly explained by the Bible verses I show you, and you conveniently ignore them with no basis , and claim they were misinterpreted (even this, you cant explain how its misinterpreted)..

You don’t have to reply this if there’s no new Bible verses that you can use to substantiate your claims, or even to discuss on those verses I’ve showed you..

If I were you and there are so many verses that goes against my own believes, I would be worried and would try to find evidences and proof or explanations on why those verses say so.. but I guess you’re satisfied with commentaries and opinions

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 08:27 AM

To all christians who may be new, and learning about the Bible..

We do not pick and choose the Bible verses that suit us or do not suit us.. CONSISTENCY in interpreting the Bible..
To be honest, this is the first time I hear it but its okay.. based on this self-made rule of ,"some of the things Paul wrote to the Ephesians can be profitable to other Christian believers for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

That itself is inconsistent because
1. The Bible has clearly stated who they are addressed to .. unless written OTHERWISE another person it is addressed..we cant pick as we like what the Bible states and match it based on own liking or reasoning.
2. If the Bible addresses it to SOMEONE ELSE, the Bible would have wrote it as well.. so again we dont pick and choose
i.e.The BIBLE does it according to the verses before or in the verse itself..

All letters were not just to the SAINTS but to all Christians (who are called to be SAINTS) according to the Bible in Ephesians and Romans..

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 11 2024, 10:32 PM

Understanding “Sheep” in the Bible


There are FIVE ways of looking at it
The word Sheep appeared approximately 200 times in the Bible. And in a summary of that, in the entire Bible, it has been generally used in the FIVE ways mentioned below.

Why are there FIVE ways?


The confusion some had on "sheep"
Can sheeps be further narrowed down to different groups of people at different parts of the Bible?
The clear answer is NO because we believe the Bible is perfect, and does not contradict itself. Furthermore, the Bible has clearly explained
But let’s see from the Bible.

FACT no.1 - SHEEP includes EVERYONE :


Fact no.2 - SHEEP are lost, and need a shepherd.


Conclusion 1 : it is plainly written who Sheep represents, at all times.. all of us whom God have chosen. If God had not chosen us, we are not his Sheep.
John 10:14,” I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”
John 10:16,”And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” (p/s... remember we are lost sheep.. all astray and needed to be back in one fold)

Conclusion 2: We know sheep there are no distinction of Sheep. “..and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
There is no distinction of Apostles, or Jews, or Gentiles in SHEEP. either in Old Testament, or New Testament..We are ALL SHEEPS.


Feel free to drop me any portion of the Bible you need clarification or help.
I will be more than happy to work on it.

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HEBREWS.11: = 32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

How come you and ALL other Christian "saints" are not doing or experiencing the above events mentioned in (likely.?) Paul's epistle/letter to the Hebrews or Jewish Christians at around 60AD.?
....... Or do or be the below in Paul's letter to the Corinthians at around the same time as HEBREWS.?, .......

1CORINTHIANS.12: = 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. ...

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28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

Are you and ALL of today's Christian "saints" the Romans or Ephesians or Hebrew Christians or Corinthians or Philippians or Galatians or etc personally addressed by apostle Paul in his letters/epistles dated in 1st century AD.?
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 12 2024, 12:04 PM

Why are you quoting Hebrews 11:32-37 when the Bible is talking about the people at the old Testament?
Read Hebrews 11:13,"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
Last I check, you're alive right?
THESE ALL (the subsequent people).. and then the remainder of the examples..

You really need to learn how to read chronologically and not cherry pick ..
Hebrews 11 is talking about examples of FAITH.. and the older days prophets and people living their lives through faith..
Hebrews 11:29 ," By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned."
They here, obviously refers to the Isrealites.
This is continued up to v31.
And then You quote more on v32-v37, Again similarly, explaining examples of faith in addressing the people in verse 32 (Gedeon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, David, Samuel, Prophets)
So to your first question, How come ? is cos you dont read properly, thats all..
It closes by concluding at v39,"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Which Church or commentary teach you that you as a christian, MUST go through that???
READ V40! what does it say?
GOD.. PROVIDED SOME BETTER THING FOR US...
It clearly already say it will be different!

And then you quote 1 Corinthians 12:7.
Why dont you read the whole 1 Corinthians before you jump to this conclusion??
Read 1 Corinthians 12:4 ."Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.' DIVERSITIES.. DIFFERENT TYPE!
You quote v7, but dont even try to understand it..
It says.. ,"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
Already in v4-v6, its saying there will be different gifts, administrations, operations, but of the SAME GOD. .
and v7 says yes there will be gifts..
v8-9 it further explains the different possible types,"word of wisdom, word of knowledge, gifts of healing (FYI, go search on what healing means, dont jump into something conclusion you dont know).
and again up to v10 the different type of gifts, as was proven in ACTS when the disciples and apostles had those gifts..
and all the way down to v28-31, Again focus on v29,30,31..
Already Paul is asking YOU.. Are all Apostles? Are all Prophets? Are all Teachers?? This is again an obvious answer NO.
The conclusion of the matter is in v31! ,"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

So to your 2nd question.. We are ALL SAINTS.. We are still.. ALL ADDRESSED BY PAUL in his letters..
nothing in the above suggest otherwise..

Now that I answered BOTH your confusion, DONT FORGET TO READ THE BIBLE VERSES I SHOWED YOU AND NOT IGNORE THEM!


This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 12:35 PM

= hence, the Bible/Scripture should be read in-context and interpreted correctly, ie the deeds and experiences in HEBREWS.11 does not apply to you or me or ALL Christian "saints", as you quoted EPHESIANS.1:1-5 out-of-context as applying to ALL Christian "saints" in other times and other regions as already chosen/elected and predestined by God like those faithful saints in the Church of Ephesus in 1st century AD.
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No la, only God can decide who are the true saints, eg will you or me or other Christians today lose faith in Christ or keep the faith/be faithful to Christ until death or etc.?
.


My 3 questions were, .......

How come you and ALL other Christian "saints" are not doing or experiencing the above events mentioned in (likely.?) Paul's epistle/letter to the Hebrews or Jewish Christians at around 60AD.?
....... Or do or be the below in Paul's letter to the Corinthians at around the same time as HEBREWS.?, .......

Are you and ALL of today's Christian "saints" the Romans or Ephesians or Hebrew Christians or Corinthians or Philippians or Galatians or etc personally addressed by apostle Paul in his letters/epistles dated in 1st century AD.?
.
No la, you did not answer my 3 questions, eg by now you saying HEBREWS.11 should be quoted in-context as applying only to OT figures/people, and not to ALL Christian "saints". Isn't this being double-minded.? .......

PSALM.119:113 = I hate the double-minded,
But I love Your law.
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 12 2024, 01:11 PM

READ!
Dont reply for the sake of it.
I already replied you clearly.. You're NOT READING.. and there's no DOUBLE MINDED.. If any, its just you having double vision .. .
Question 1 - How come you and ALL other Christian "saints" are not doing or experiencing the above events mentioned in (likely.?) Paul's epistle/letter to the Hebrews or Jewish Christians at around 60AD. + personally addressed by apostle Paul in his letters/epistles dated in 1st century AD.
I already answered.. and if you need to learn how to read the Bible, I also inserted into it.. READ!
There was NO CHANGE to who the letter was addressed to.. but at that segment, Paul was referring to EXAMPLES!!
I wont copy my reply like you to make the whole thread messy, but PLEASE READ MY PREVIOUS REPLY!!

Question 2 - Are you and ALL of today's Christian "saints" the Romans or Ephesians or Hebrew Christians or Corinthians or Philippians or Galatians or etc personally addressed by apostle Paul in his letters/epistles dated in 1st century AD.?
I also ANSWERED ALREADY!
I said YES we are all SAINTS... Addressed by PAUL.. i did not say this portion is for OT prophets.. NOTHING in that text suggests so..


Now that I answered BOTH your confusion, TWICE! DONT FORGET TO READ THE BIBLE VERSES I SHOWED YOU AND NOT IGNORE THEM!


This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 01:51 PM

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So, are you or the other Christian "saints" today also apostles or prophets, miracle workers, miracle healers or discerners of spirits since you say apostle Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians in 1st century AD also applies to ALL Christian "saints" in other times and other regions.? .......


.

LOL.. which part of it have I EVER said we are apostles or prophets..
Get your understanding correct,
Is Paul a Christian, yes..
Is Paul an Apostle, yes..
Is Paul also a SAINT, YES OF COURSE!

Am I a Christian, Yes..
Am I a Saint.. Yes..
Am I an apostle.. of course not..

No where is it written for us to be Apostles or Prophets ...

V29 is a rhetorical question which in my previous reply ALREADY told you, NO...
Paul is exactly rhetorically asking you, NO

and V31, again, asking you to desire the best gifts, and there's a better way.. if you read on in 1 corinthians 13 you even learn what this is about..

so .. please .. Bible is there to read and understand.. not use one two verses to make claims..

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EPHESIANS.1: (NKJV) = 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: ...
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So, is it true that there is nothing "you" or "we" or "a person" or other Christians today can do to lose his/her salvation.?, ...
.... as per your misinterpretation and reading out-of-context EPHESIANS.1:1-5 that the Bible passage also applies to you and me, or other Christian "saints" today or in other times or other regions, and not just to the faithful saints in the Church of Ephesus in 1st century AD.?

The letter of Ephesians was a letter addressed personally by apostle Paul to the faithful saints in the Church of Ephesus in 1st century AD, as were ALL (.?) his other letters, eg to the faithful saints in the Church of Philippi, Rome, Corinth, Galatia, etc. .......
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1TIMOTHY.4: (NKJV) = The Great Apostasy

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, ...


1TIMOTHY.5: = 11 But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry, 12 having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. 13 And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not.

1TIMOTHY.1: = 18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, 20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

= you must first have the faith (in Christ) before you can depart from the faith or cast off the faith or have the faith suffer shipwreck.
....... = lose faith in Christ = lose salvation from hell when you die.
.

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Quoting you; ... Am I a Saint.. Yes..

The BIG question is, will you or me or other Christians today remain a "saint" and be faithful until death, eg not lose faith in Christ by departing from the faith, casting off our first faith or having our faith suffer shipwreck or etc.?

PHILIPPIANS.2: = 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure....

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16 holding fast the word of life, ....
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The above "word of life" or Scripture may be "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, " for you, me and other Christians today. (- 2TIMOTHY.3:16)
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 12 2024, 06:28 PM

Your claims
1. Ephesians 1:1-5 still out of context
- You have understanding problem? Ephesians is clearly for everyone as explained IN DETAIL (which you ignored and have no other verse to explain on )
- Hebrews 11, is FOR YOU and ME to understand the examples. Please read my reply on reading the Bible as I shared.

2. No la, only God can decide who are the true saints, eg will you or me or other Christians today lose faith in Christ or keep the faith/be faithful to Christ until death or etc.?
You got any Bible verse to substantiate this? your opinion and imagination?
I got and GAVE YOU MULTIPLE Bible verses to tell you, we are called to be Saints..

3. Hebrews 11 only for OT? not for SAINTS? Double Minded?
Like I said, the only thing thats double is your vision.
Hebrews 11, are examples quoted for SAINTS.. Nothing suggests that it is wrong. Did you even read what I said about how the Bible or the letters are being addressed?
I begin to doubt if its the language that you have difficulty understanding.

Recap..
1. Ephesians 1:1 is clear - SAINTS AND FAITHFUL
I've explained to you, it is two groups through ORIGINAL BIBLE LANGUAGE - IGNORED
I've showed you concrete bible verse we are SAINTS, Romans 1:7, Ephesians 2:19 - IGNORED
The only thing you did was throw in confusion by saying
Hebrews 11 - Explained, there's nothing wrong that OT examples given TO SAINTS.. - UNDERSTANDING PROBLEM
, 1 Corinthians 12, - Explained - IGNORED

2. Ephesians 1:4-5 is clear - Chosen us, Predestined us.. Unless your reading and understanding has problem, I suggest you try to digest what these verses are saying and not ignore them.
You throw in multiple attempts with various verses to build your point but fail, and resort to your own conclusion with no explanation, this is take out of context.
To recap this is to state out another LONG LIST of all the verses i explained to you 2 weeks ago. I Wont go there but i would advice you try and clear out your plate first.. because you have ignored so many and just throw smoke bombs one after another

3. 1 Timothy 4, we've gone through this.. until you clear out even the simplest item 1, then i will slowly work on your confusion and blindness on item 2 and 3. But before that, dont try to confuse yourself and others by going all around different topics just because the Bible showed you the truth..

this is a similar topic with item 3 as my previous reply.
I'm sorry but to avoid us from going in circles and you avoiding the Bible proving you wrong..
I would suggest, you resolve your problems one at a time..

And dont worry, im not avoiding you or trying to delete your comments.. I dont need to even try, and when I start reading whatever verses you attempt to throw in, the answer always comes out by itself..

Im trying to help others so you dont go around spreading false doctrines and hopefully, you can grow yourself by reading the Bible, not commentaries..

Resolve your problem with understanding the Bible first before you want to change the topics..

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Quoting and resizing for the record.
.

I would suggest you tackle the problems you have, than questioning my track record..

As proven and being said consistently, i only intend to have NON BIBLE related matters removed, particularly those who have no respect to Christianity and ridicule it..

I dont reply for the sake of it.. i actually do read.. digest, and try to understand your confusion..

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 12 2024, 08:38 PM

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Besides misinterpreting and quoting out-of-context the Scripture/Bible, and being self-righteous, seems you have also self-appointed yourself as the guardian of Bible truths or as the TS/judge/watchman of this thread. .......

EZEKIEL.3: (NKJV) = Ezekiel Is a Watchman

16 Now it came to pass at the end of seven days that the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me: 18 When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
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Repost as a reminder, .......

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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 13 2024, 01:02 PM

Again, my track record proves right, anything non Bible related
Through the last 2 weeks, you’ve not even proven once I misinterpreted
And instead of addressing your errors, you ignore, distract, and confuse by throwing in another topic

Your claims


I would advice you to clear your confusion and address it before you create distractions with another matter just because the Bible proved you wrong in one.

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 13 2024, 06:57 AM

It is very easy to be confused with various versions of the Bible. It is already well expected, there will be more false prophets as we approach nearer to rapture. But for new Christians, and those seasoned Christians, as long as we base everything on the Bible, we will NEVER go wrong.
One of the few confusions in recent weeks is Philippians 2:12.
Let’s once and for all dive deep into this verse.. and have a full understanding.
Philippians 2:12,” "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."


Understanding “Work out your own salvation”
When one reads this, it can only imply two ways..

“work out your own salvation” is a very straightforward statement.
Here lies the confusion…
1. Salvation proven by works
2. Salvation obtained by works

Let me show you from the Bible why (1) is correct, not (2)
1. Salvation proven by works

A person’s faith, is JUSTIFIED by his works. In other words, the litmus test if a person is truly saved, is to see if he/she has works.
We are all identified by the good works that we do, because that was the reason God chose us to be saved in Christ Jesus.
2. Salvation obtained by works

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

And many more verses.. we can NEVER obtain salvation by works..

After we have completed the portion of “Work out your own salvation”, lets understand further on "FEAR AND TREMBLING.”
Allow me to share some verses from the Bible that tells you about FEAR AND TREMBLING.

What are these related to "proving your salvation" with FEAR and TREMBLING?
The few main reasons to FEAR in the Bible;-
A. Fear God to learn more of Him.
B. Fear God in keeping His commandments
C. Fear God because God is Holy and Almighty.
In Philippians 2:12, it is ©Fear and Trembling because GOD is Holy and Almighty.
It has been explained even before that verse.
Observe Philippians 2:11,12,” And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore,…… salvation with fear and trembling”

This is also similar as in the above example 1 Corinthians 2:1,3,”…., declaring unto you the testimony of God.”,”And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling”
Was Paul losing his salvation in 1 Corinthians 2:1 to be fearful and trembling? NO.
It was because God is Holy.

Conclusion
Our salvation, has always been predestined. We are predestined to have saving faith in Christ Jesus. And we will not lose our salvation.
So does it mean, we can SIN all the time? Not do any good works?
NO
Romans 6:1-2,” What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
Ephesians 2:10,” For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

This clearly mentions, if you are dead to sin, you do not live in sin. You cant. The ONLY reason you are able to, is because you are NOT DEAD TO SIN, you are NOT SAVED.
And we are predestined to NOT LIVE in sin, but unto GOOD WORKS, and walk in them.

that come to an interesting question, do you still sin?