Congrats on V4!

For those who stay at Penang, Toby Pet do carries Solid Gold, i suppose they still selling now.

This post has been edited by White Palace: Feb 16 2008, 01:00 AM

Protein level might be the same, but source of protein really different. Do you know that a belt, a leather shoe, or even a dead animal can be throw in and analysed as "Protein" too?

"Meat Meal" will be the best. It means the real meat excluding water in it. If it is just stated xxx meat, then probably the 70% water in the meat haven extracted and that's how it turns out to be the first few ingredients.

Digital scale, how sensitive it is? Cause i really need one. can measure wat sort of measurements?

do u mean porcupine? hedgehog got wild one meh? I mean you say it came to your house wo...

I see, thanks a lot! Will go check it out once i can squeezeeee a lil more time.

OMG, how i hope there will be one hedgehog juz walk into my house too!

And your maid actually saw this precious cute lil thing for days already!

Superbly cute, yet not looks like those hedgies our members having. Weird enough to walk into your house, somemore it is like not commonly sold in Malaysia! You guys really got fate, must take good care of it.

I have to disagree that kidney issues is due to too much protein, at least this is not the main reason.

As most of the research done, kidney and liver failure, is happening more on our pets nowadays, because people had been feeding processed / packaged kibbles.

Do you guys realised that those strays on the street, or last time those dogs that people feed with table scraps, seems to be healthier?

This is because, too many of the manufacturer of these kibbles out there, are not ethical enough, and chuck in too much of nonsense into the food. The main reason of these kidney / liver problems is more directly due to the questionable source of ingredients the manufacturer gets from. Even the source of meat we human getting nowadays are more or less, "poisonous".

Hence, the most important thing is, the first thing to consider, is which manufacturer practices more ethical business. Even you may find a lower protein food, but you have to check, check, and check again, where does this protein come from? A lower protein level doesnt guarantee you a healthier pet.

For Orijen, I personally favor it simply because: Unlike other brands, they do almost everything themselves. From manufactoring - farming, YES! farming. Most of the meat source are from their own farm and vet inspected, well take a guess how good the meat source would be if a manufacturer were to get from those mass meat providers. Even for fishes, they are wild caught, not raised by business makers.

Of corse, I'm not here trying to say that Orijen is the most appropriate diet for hedgies, I'm just trying to clarify the points that we should emphasize on the quality of food, then only get the right nutrients level. If there are few brands to mix with and it gets a better result, why not? I do support your statement regarding this.

I felt very sorry if i somehow make u depress or gets a lil angry.

My apology ya.

Coz normally in a forum, i do believe in freedom to express opinion, as long as we do not make it a personal issue. And my point, really has nothing personal so i hope you wouldnt mind if i were to post my opinion, irregardless your very good points, which i have no intention to say these are wrong.

In fact, i never try to defend Orijen or any other good brands with high protein level is good for Hedgehog. I was trying to emphasize that, if these good brands are bad, so how do we know that lower standard brands (doesnt mean bad brands) will make our hedgehog's life better?

I comment about this due to the fact that, high level of protein according to you might cause kidney stones, but my opinion is, if we feed lower standard food, chances are they are more prone to kidney & liver failure IRREGARDLESS OF TYPE OF PET, be it dog, or cat, or hedgehog. Liver is an organ to filter out any "dirty", "poisonous" or "bad stuffs" same for any pet. That's why, i am actually supporting your opinion that, mixing a few brands should be good, but we must emphasize on quality first, then comes the right ingredients.

I hope I didnt offend you this time.

P/S: I never intended to say Orijen is the best brand, it is just my personal preference to favor a manufacturer which do do everything themselves, and responsible on their own ingredients.

This post has been edited by White Palace: Feb 26 2008, 12:29 AM

Thing is, we are not nutritionist. For a packet of cat food which contains 30% of protein for example, based on the "analysis". After being processed, heated, packaged and being made to have a shelf life of a year or years, how much is the "REAL" level of protein left? It might be 20%, 10%, nothing much left, but definitely not 30%.

The fact that you stated that you "do not support feeding Orijen, Innova Evo, and the reason is these damn brand has higher than 35% protein" is based on the analysis. But how much left after being packaged, is really not known by us, and the TRUE protein level it contains might be even lower to what hedgehog natural diets are, i.e. insects which has more or less 20% protein.

So, which brand would you recommend then given the lack of information and confidence as a typical pet owner who are not nutritionist? Then of corse, we would select the good ones as you said, but i would say much research has to be done before concluding "anything more than 35%" (as stated in analysis) will do harm to a hedgehog. Given the protein level will definitely diminish after being processed, I would say there is an equal risk to harm our hedgehog if we were to feed protein level below 35%. But of corse, I dare not say that is a FACT since i'm not a nutritionist.

Trust me, the best food for our pets should be non processed, non packaged food. It is hard to determine which is good or bad, solely based on the "analysis" provided by the manufacturer! Best is, to feed our hedgies with mealworms, crickets, other suitable insects with a good mixture of fruits and veges.

But of corse, many hedgehog owners are not able to do so, hence, they need to go for these manufactured ones. Hedgehog is still a relatively new pet, so it is still too early to determine the diet that suits them most, which makes it even too soon to conclude that which "analysis" suits our hedgehog most.

We really can't determine the protein level simply by reading the analysis provided by the manufacturer, unless we were to open up a pack, make a proper study, and sufficient research. Then probably, you will express a different opinion already.

This post has been edited by White Palace: Feb 26 2008, 01:10 AM

One day go yumcha, i really love your posts, but i have voice out my side of thinking as well, great, I can sleep already.

Those who wana see war, then perhaps can sponsor us a little.

At the meantime, juz read back the "precious" 3 posts i posted, again & again if no sponsorship given.

Juz to sum up my side of opinion, not to disagree with anything or condem anybody ya?

1) The analysis on food lable is based on the ingredients intended to be put in that has not been processed, so after it is processed, the protein level should be much lower than stated.

2) It is a good argument whether feeding non processed food (i.e. insects, fruits, veges) *juz to give examples!* VS feeding the "best" processed food, which is better? Personally, I would recommend a mixture reason being a processed, heated, packed into long shelf life food might not be able to retain the "nutrients" in it.

3) I like Cimredopyh a lot, I respect her, and love to be her friend.

4) I AM A MALE AS STATED! OMG...

This post has been edited by White Palace: Feb 27 2008, 12:22 AM

You should post BEFORE + AFTER photos to compare the result