That sounds worrying, 2 days not eating much and I dont have any idea what the sudden movement and sound when hes sleeping could be.
Is he pooping and peeing less also? Does he still play with his wheel and is he active in other ways?

Sorry i dont have any answers poor Ken , perhaps its time to visit the vet? Better safe than sorry

Dr Yeoh Eng Cheong in Taman Megah - 03 7804 8684

Cloth liners are great if you dont mind washing it in the washing machine ( seperately from your clothes and please dont throw it in there with poop sticking to it LOL) You might also want to run an empty wash after to clean out and get rid of any stray quills
If you plan to wash by hand it will be quite alot of work as they need to be changed once every 3 days, more or less depending on how good you are with spot cleaning and how messy your hog is. You should also provide a litter pan, Demon only poops inside and under the wheel so i just put a paper towel there and change it everyday.

Also like babymoli said, digging behaviour is normall for most hedgehogs. This may happen even when you use cloth. Demon likes to scratch at the cloth under the wheel and inside his igloo. Attaching it to the bottom of the cage with velcro is a good way to stop them from digging under the liner

If your ok with all that then by all means switch to cloth, there are alot of good points
Its very clean, neat, easy to check that poop and pee is normal and you can easily spot bleeding if your hog gets injured (unless you insist on choosing a dark colour cloth )
Quill loss can easily be observed
Chances of getting mites is reduced by something like 90% compared to using wood bedding
If you have sinus or asthma issues cloth is a good choice as many find that wood bedding aggravates those conditions
And of course any stray mealworm or spilled food can easily be cleaned up

On a side note, im thrilled to say that when i switched to this new 2 lvl cage only the liner in the loft with the wheel gets dirty, the liner downstairs where he sleeps and eats is virtually spotless exept for the occasional footprint

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 14 2008, 04:35 PM

I got mine at Pet Safari at the Curve, im sure the rest can suggest some other places to look as well.

Hey guys Ive come across some info i would like to share

It seems that Innova Evo is not good for hedgehogs because the protein content is much too high, and even orijen is a little too high in protein
It seems they should not even be used as part of a mix.
What happens is their bodies are unable to process the excessive amount of protein after awhile it will result in kidney (or was it liver? sorry ill check again and confirm which organ) problems
I was informed by a few people about this during a discussion about good cat foods for hedgies. One of them is a nice canadian lady who has been breeding hedgehogs for about 6 years, she really knows her stuff and i take her opinion seriously ( Nancy of the hedgie den)

Now i know these are both really high quality food with great ingredients but unfortunately it seems the risk of feeding too high protein is just as bad as feeding high fat : (. It wont kill them straight away but it will probably cause problems in the long term

I hope im not stepping on any toes as i know most of the hedgie enthusiasts in LYN do recommend these two cat foods. I was abit hesistant because of that but i decided to share the info anyways

oh yeah and if your wondering how much protein is too much, the closer to 30% the better. Lower than 25% is to little, higher than 35% is too much

Edit: I just checked and it was the liver not the kidneys, too much protein and their body cant break it down properly.

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 17 2008, 12:53 AM

yes RC is ok

heres a list (most recent version, updated on 21/09/07) of cat foods
List of dry cat foods suitable for african pygmy hedgehogs

as you can see RC lite and RC indoor 27 are on the list

Eagle pack, Nutro natural, and Solid gold katz n flocken are also available at pet safari

Im pretty sure the reason why they use the toilet there is because they sometimes do it while eating
muchan your right, he probably stands in the bowl and eats, which is why the poop/pee also ends up in the bowl. A smaller bowl should indeed solve the problem

edit: you need to PM hao to let him know your hedgies name and ask him to add you
This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 18 2008, 02:51 AM

Of course he will tell you it cant be from the shavings...he wants you to continue to buy :/

"A frequent affliction of pet hedgehogs is an infestation of mites. Mites are spread primarily by contact with another infested animal or contaminated bedding. Wood shavings are a frequent suspect,"

taken from http://www.hedgies.com/hedgehog_health_care.htm

I dont use shavings so i dont know what precautions you should take but im pretty sure people put the leftover unused bedding out in the sun to clear mites. dont know if they somehow clean them before sunning

how do you store the clean beddings? if you dont close it properly maybe mites got in after it was opened

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 19 2008, 05:48 PM

Honestly i would not recommend it as a first pet

Its not that they are difficult to care for, compared to many pets the care of a hedgehog is indeed pretty simple.

I would not recommend it as a first pet firstly because forging a relationship with them takes time and patience.
If you have never had a pet im sure you will be curious and exited, and want to observe the pet often.
Can you give the hedgehog the time and space it needs to adjust in the first few weeks?
Secondly can you have the patience to accept the fact that for the first few weeks or months your hedgehog might act like it hates you? they are not all affectionate, some are grumpy (personally i find this very cute) and even those that are affectionate take awhile to trust you. Many people get frustrated and give up in the first few weeks.
Once you form the bond and the hedgie finally accepts you, can you put in the time everyday to continue to maintain the bond for the next 3-5 years? If you dont there is a chance it will go back to square 1
Some hedgehogs do not like to be touched/carried, if you want a animal who can be cuddled and stroked a hedgehog might not be best for you. Of course there are hedgies that do love to be touched but there are just as many, if not more, that dont like it.
myvi5949 since you ask about cost, i would say that the maintainence cost is not high at all, however hedgehogs are exotic pets, if he gets sick you may need to travel far and spend alot to get a hedgehog the medical care it will need. Most vets do not have any idea what to do with a hedgehog.

Oh and yes, the wheel you will be washing a poop coated wheel... every... single...day...(dont even dream of getting away from this) for the rest of the life of the hedgehog. "Resistance is futile, you will wash my wheel"

If you can deal with all the above then by all means go for it.

Dont just read the 1st page of this thread, do much more research BEFORE you get a hedgehog, not after.

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 20 2008, 11:19 AM

They run and poo at the same time because they think they are leaving it behind them (as funny as it sounds this is why they poo in the wheel)
Do you wake Spikey up and then play with him? if he was sleeping before you took him out, he poos because...err... its like how you and pretty much everyone will have the need to pee when they wake up.
Maybe you can try this = wake him up and play with him for a few minutes, then put him back in to let him do his business in the cage. When hes done then you can take him out again.
Apparently this works for many people, but often Demon just goes back to sleep ><.

Edit: Didnt see the 12 inch silent spinner type at pet safari? pretty sure they had lots in stock the last time i went. Or do you specifically want the metal type? cos yeah they dont have the metal wheel at pet safari. In fact ive never seen the metal wheel at pets family or pets wonderland either.

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 21 2008, 11:49 AM

O well lol, maybe he just loves to eat XD
You can get it from me if you want. Hardware shop only sell it in large amounts so i have about 48 feet of it leftover! ><
Im located in Cheras also so drop me a PM if youd like some and we can meet up

he poos near his food because they like to eat and poop at the same time. In one end and out the other you got pm btw

As already been mentioned many times by many people Dr Yeoh can sucessfully treated hedgehogs

Dr Yeoh Eng Cheong in Taman Megah - 03 7804 8684

If its a male dont worry its pretty common, hes probably just having "boy time"

Since you have kept both im sure you know that chins and hedgies are vey different XD
But if you noticed abnormality in his urine then you might want to take him to the vet.
It could be boy time but it also could be a urine tract infection, the doctor will prescribe some antibiotics and it should clear up in 2 - 3 days
edit:
btw any blood mixed in with the urine? do you notice that he have difficulty peeing or pee less often?

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 25 2008, 12:16 AM

Echo is really cute!! >< boy am i tempted, told my bf about her adoption and showed him the pic .......... and he gave me the look of doom

edit: I keep going back to look at her pic, her face is saying "im soooo cute, you will love feeding me all the insects i want"
you chose this pic on purpose didnt you

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 28 2008, 12:39 AM

Just to let you know
Drinking from a bottle is not a natural drinking position for them and hedgehogs necks are not able to bend the way a rodents does. Therefore drinking from a bottle is not only un-natural for them but also uncomfortable.
Because of the position hedgehogs tend to bite at the spout more, trying to get the water faster and if a hedgehog chips a tooth on the bottle the tooth does not grow back.

I'd keep him on the bowl, it is easier for him and he will drink more water from a bowl than a bottle. Also since you noticed recently his urine is more yellow, now is probably not a good time to try a bottle
Edit:
If you really want to try a bottle remember not to remove the bowl yet, keep both in there and see which he prefers to use.

This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 28 2008, 08:02 PM

Yep 100% sure, you can do a search about it for yourself
The bottle VS bowl issue comes up very often. Bowls are always better
You can try it for yourself actually, put both a bowl and a bottle in there, nearly always they will end up using the bowl more
about hedgehogs being unable to arch their spines in a U shape comfortably im also 100% sure
Its actually also one of the reasons they need a 10-12 inch wheel because if the wheel is too small they will develop spine problems from constantly having to arch to run in the small curve

Edit:
some links about it
http://hedgehogcentral.com/forum/index.php...=bottle,or,bowl

http://www.chins-n-quills.com/forums/showt...tle+bowl&page=2


This post has been edited by Cimredopyh: Jan 29 2008, 02:03 AM

You sure you cleared up the mites from before? Theres a few types of mites not all types can be cured by frontline