Ok guys as what the title says, Cascade building worklog.

extremeocer and I will be building a concept cascade,

Reason why i call it Concept Cascade is because it still in a conceptual stage. Its unique in a way , I'm going to fit a normal SS into the same case as a Dual cascade. And fit it into the smallest case possible. AFAIK i have not seen any dual cascades and SS in the same case.


The case measures W34 x H44 x L54 .

I know the case need some work but what i really wanted was the base, as its made out of 2mm steel so its really solid and sturdy. Itll be using three rotary compressors and a 120mm condenser for the SS and 30cm condenser for the cascade.

Anyway this is gonna be one heck of a long project, as i wont be starting work on the real unit until February 2008, now its just the design and planning stages. Like all the pipe work, placement, gases to use, and collecting components.

ok some conceptual drawings of placements and pipe work,















any questions can be posted directly here in this thread pls.. pls dun pm to me or extremeocer,

Wooooo. Good stuff. Which case u gonna put on top of it? Blackfire?

its gonna be a open concept bench rig.

ure answer below...

well the daily side of the system will be connected to my clack fire.. which will sit beside it... adn my open bench table which is still under design , will be easily removable, so most probably my blackfire will go on top

Naisssssssss. Make sure u put the log of this monster in ur Blackfire worklog too.

already boss.. u can see i put a preview pic there

Cool! Er........................ I meant COLD!

question is...are you going to place the fans on such a way?

Sure looks like a potential dead spot creator

wat u mean? which part? teh fans positions are not final. will be moved in the end depending on space.. but there will definitely be one fan on each compressor.

There is no dead spot.......what you don't see is the large exhaust fan. it's big enough to pull any air out.

no lah dun blame him , not his fault... the exhasut fan tehre is not obviosu in teh pics.. u knw coz i discussed it with u..

Don't get me wrong, i am not blaming him....i'm just explaining. Well, from the pics, there is condenser mah....Condenser sure got fan to cool. Moreover we intend to use a 30CM condenser, so basically a large fan is needed to cool it. For a condenser of the size, the most ideal fan to use is exhaust fan. very very strong CFM. So the concern here is definitely not dead spot.

I was wondering if there is enough intake air into the casing since the exhaust fan is pulling a wholesome of air out...but since the casing is not entirely covered up...so airflow wouldn't be an issue.

wah nice ........finally some really technical stuff......

hehe bro mind to share some technical details ? like what compressor, refrigerant and what kind of valve......

haha yeah.. dun worry the sides are all open

haha so far refrigerant not finalised yet.. but compressors will be 1hp Rotary,

ok, i see you're planned to using the single stage rotary with 12cm condensor??? rotary consume more refrigerant than hermetic, so i think its hard to condense with such a small condensor especially the ambient inside the case would be verrryyy hot due to the 3 rotarys. just imagine, 1 rotary can produce heat 60c - 100c while operating...
where do you planned to put the oil separator i didnt see it on the drawing. what refrigerant you're gonna use for low stage?
its a verryy hard and tricky job to put 3 rotarys inside that box.

ah... well most of the placements and parts are yet to be finalized. as were still planning , the 3d images are just rough sketches for now .

low stage probably r22. oil seperator will be in between the hx and the big condenser.. theres just enough space..

i agree it will be tricky.. but its a nice challenge ain't it ? and thats y we are taking teh slow way.. planing again and again.. with prototypes to be built out of cardboards.... ( of course not brazed lah...) lolz

So the basis of the housing is flow through based I gather? But the thing is the flow equalized or are you following the adage of as much air in as possible? Just asking

BTW rendered using what? 3D Max? Not familiar since I use CATIA

This post has been edited by almostthere: Oct 6 2007, 02:33 PM

im using sketch up, its not teh point of as much airflow as possible, and there wont be sidepanels. so mostly wat im doing is jsut having a fan piointed at any heat generating part, and the fan on top are for cooling the pipework...

in other words active cooling of components then. But why would you need to cool some of the pipework as those that carry the compressed gas forward to exchanger/evap head would be highly compressed to the point it be less affected by temperature.

well there is teh desuper heater coil , on both set ups.. that l go just above the compressor... and to mover the hot air out thru the back.. as teh compressors get hot.. teh hot air will be rising.. so the piepwork will sweat... the cold ones at least.. the fan prevents that also...

yo andre bro....good to see you here. anyway the 12cm condenser will do for now as that is for daily usage....so basically the compressor will not be running all together at any one time. its either cascade or SS.

As for the cascade....r22 will gonna be used for low stages. I'll try to get a better refrigerant for the 2nd stage. Anything better then r410a requires an oil separator. There's still some spacing left...so adding an oil sep shouldn't pose any issues.

Hmmmmm....looks like I'm gonna be making friends with MOX soon if I wanna outmatch you guys. RM80/= a tank of LN2 sounds tempting. Now for a rod of copper to mill

haha bro u forgot ur dewwar.. or u already haave a dewar?

though ln2 is much cooler than cascade....but just calculate the cost. RM80 per tank oni last for a while. Cascade last forever!!!....yeh!!!

it's not a matter of last long or doesn't last long. After all, show me one OC'ed system on cascade that lasted very long. Hardly a few do due to the electrical stresses you put on it. In fact a few stopped using phase change (bulkhy used to make em') since the maintenance was an arse anyway

well...for one, i game on my cascade. 3 - 4 hrs daily. Maintanence???.....no worries dude. I dun see any maintanence needed. Its not like home A/C unit which needs servicing and refrigerant top-up. Anyway, FYI bulkhy will be back. We had some discussion on building his cascade.

well imo a well made and organized cascade wont need much maintainence . i dont get wat u mean by electrical stress.. u mean electric bills?

the stress on the proc , mobo, RAM bla bla bla. Heck even fugger doesn't run his triple cascade often (Not to mention the fact it'll kill his AC outlet)

Maybe it's time I got serious again with OC'ing. Maybe....see how 1st. I can barely fund my PC's maintenance now

This post has been edited by almostthere: Oct 6 2007, 09:53 PM

ahh those issues.. of course u dont run ur cascade rig t4.7 lah... u under ln2 also u run 24.7 meh ? lolz.. but the stess is a known thing.. when oc u knw the risks involved... no offense though

neway thats y i have a daily use Single Stage on this setup .. so its esay to move an swithc..

precisely the point. LN2 when u kira ur costing just as low to use. Just that you have to be more careful unless u want extreme frostbite on ur body laaaa. LOL

well depends lah.. im a heavy bencher.. almost everyday .. and with the cascade easily will hit 10hrs aday...im, already clocking in about 9 to 8 hrs aday of testing with air ( waiting for uni is so boring) so using ln2 is too exp hence this project.. if ur a once a month bencher then its fine....

haha about ln2 giving u frostbite its actually not true...

did u kwn the safest way to handle ln2 is without gloves?

yeah its shocking but if u ask any chemist hell tell u that its true.. adn that if u stick ur hand for a second into a small pudle of ln2 , say in a small bowl , ur safe.. and it wont freeze, heck u can pour it on ur hand and it wont freeze..
this phenomenon is due to the fact that ln2 evaporate teh second it touches anything hotter taht it self.. which is almost everything lolz ,
when it evaporates, it formes a layer of gas , and it floats on it.. unless its too heavy and gravity does it job and the gas can tsupport it, this is only for large amounts..

about the gloves, the reason being is that if u splash in on u, some of ln2 might spill into the glovess and into thefingers area. teh ln2 wil not be able to form the cuhion or gas be casue of the enclose space and it will freze ur hand. also wearing anything canvas shoes or shirts, it will soak up the ln2 and freze u so happy benching, hey bro if u have a DEWAR container , pls do gime a pm. might want to borrow it..

yeah I know that due to it's instant absorption of energy causing it to disperse into gas. It's when accidentally spill 3 litres of it then you might consider it something else. The container still doing the drawings since need to finalise few details then do a CNC coding because the tube will be counter sunk into the base plate so precision is a must for me. I haven't decided to do the brazing on my own or not

What's more budget and materials sourcing an issue. LN2 by itself is cheap. It's getting the tank for it an issue. I haven't asked MOX for prices yet. What's more, need someone to point to me a copper rod supplier.

This post has been edited by almostthere: Oct 7 2007, 12:27 AM

hey dude if u found a source of copper rod do let me know...been looking for it crazily @_@

i have plenty of that here....thanks anyway.

what are the dimensions and in what lengths?

the evap head that will go into this cascade and SS..


This post has been edited by lolhalol: Oct 17 2007, 11:48 PM

finalised the compressors that i will be using with extremeocer. will be three 1 hp matsushita electronics compressors.. adn some home made condensors...






neway extremeocer did some tests...
to test the evaps, bench rig.


done with r22 low side and r410a on the high side... this should be the gases i wil be using in my cascade when its done...



teh cascade



, got -75 C unloaded. and -63 C loaded. Using a e6600 , clocked at 4.3 @1.65 v.
temps were measured from the suction line. didn't get to measure from teh evap , ,,

Here's a little update on my Cascade


Before - Captube running thru the middle of suction line


After - captube connected from the Y-joint to the evap - neater eh




Thats the DIY condenser




Evap starting to freeze


After 1 minute....Ice Kacang anyone?


Now that's extreme gaming at 4.3Ghz

This post has been edited by extremeocer: Oct 18 2007, 03:32 PM

Man...this is awesome... doesnt the ice damage the board or chip?

hhhm. nice job.
very neat too.

ps, is that a mushkin PSU i spot?

Wow.. but then suddenly no electricity how ler..? got back up power to prevent ice from melting..?

We need benches ere' son. Come on son, get some

nope....the CPU area is totally 100% air tight. So there will be no ice there...just coldness of around -70c. Don't worry, it won't kill your mobo or chip.....in fact, your proc will love the coldness.

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Added on October 18, 2007, 9:23 pmNope...not mushkin PSU...hehe

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Added on October 18, 2007, 9:27 pmI have a UPS to power up a secondary PSU which connects 3 80mm Delta FFBs. The fans will blow around the cpu area the prevent any condensation.

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Added on October 18, 2007, 9:29 pmonly some old benchies.....no new hardware to play with.

This post has been edited by extremeocer: Oct 18 2007, 09:29 PM

siapa want to spncer us hardware to bench? lolz

also i made a ram cooler in preparation to the cascade for benching..

well as they say pic say a thousand words..

but crappy pics a hundred words

sorry for really shit quality photos. using hand phone cam.. will take nice pics when i can





fans are 2 x 92mm Delta FFB0912HHE, they are slower than screamers but provide preety good flow with out the gila noise..

woah nice ram fans, does give a sense of "extreme" feeling lol

although if i may suggest, maybe shorten the stands a weee bit to have airflow concentrated on the rams rather than having it scattered throughout the area, possible to get better cooling. OR! maybe do some modding to get some heatpipes/alu fins attached to the rams, and sticking to the same fan setup. im thinking something along the lines of having a proc heatsink attached to rams and having 2x 120mm fans blowing ROFL!

what ye think bout that?

haha good idea , but the rams would get too hot mate... lolz.. teh stands are really tall because my hr-05 is really tall... lolz

i wonder if you can "branch" out ur cascade to work like watercooling, like 1 block for cpu 1 for gpu etc... if can you can cascade up ur rams

would be DAMN interesting to see those MAD oc'ings especially on DDR3's

It wouldn't be worth the effort to cascade the rams....phase change would be better but also considered overkill. A nice cfm fan would be more than sufficient to cool the rams.

And yes...i can make multiple evaps. Perhaps dual or triple evaps.

cascade cool the rams too may be ?? hehe

ain't worth the effort....my rams are very cool even at 2.4v. With my cascade on my CPU....the area around it is also cold. My NB temps is only 33c with the NB volts to the max.

dude, you got repair phase changers too or not? Seems amok needs his fixed, which was made by Bulky. Some brazing mostly

This post has been edited by almostthere: Oct 21 2007, 07:40 PM

oh yes...i do....building and also servicing or repairs....no probs

wah seems like amok and bulkhy are coming back.. the old hands versus the new guys. ... were still noobs compare to u guys man...

Sure or not....i was using a phase rig 4 years back....before bulkhy. haha...just joking here...but i its true about the phase. Was using it long ago. Everyday is a learning process.

ya lah.. that time i dunno u mah..lol... that time still noob like hell.. see oc was like WOAH>>>

This post has been edited by lolhalol: Oct 22 2007, 05:22 PM

For those who are still new to extreme cooling....here's some insulation guide.

We'll start off by insulating the back of the mainboard....using a can of clear spray.

just spray around the cpu area...i did 3 layers of lacquer just to be safe.


Insulated with neoprene and foam tape

Now to insulate the front as well....using foam tape.


even the under-side of the CPU needs to be protected. Dielectric grease or silicon grease is used.


Apply evenly on the socket with slight pressure as you don't want to damage the pins with too much force. You can either use your fingers or a paint brush to do the job.



Dielectric grease spread out nice and even.

Next, just intall your processor and apply a thin layer of thermal compound. For me, I use Anabond thermal compound as i find it suitable for phase change. Artic Silver 5 or AS5 solidify under extreme temps...definitely not ideal.


Nice and even spread


Final layer of foam is added to the insulation and you are good to go.

Nice guide..looks like a commando to me..hehe

miss my commando already.... bro wait for my dfi plak later kay

its now commando on steroids.....so far working good




Attached thumbnail(s)

bro fast2 finish it n see the ocing result

haha wth... got mobo.. then so fast show off...lol...

Aiyo, bro lolhalol, spam your own thread ar?...no la..no show off....just thats its about extreme cooling, so might as well do a simple insulation guide and what result phase change or cascade can do.

haha ... nice.. but the top layer u got spray clear coat?

of course got la......i use nail varnish instead of spray coz i don't wanna spray over the components.

This post has been edited by extremeocer: Oct 24 2007, 11:10 PM

haha.. nice ... ill wont be using anything ..lol...just good old insulation adn glue..lol.. pva glue works also.. lol

bro..u do the casing for?so many fan,,and beautiul..nice work

haha, i do the casing to keep them all in one portable unit loh.. thx mate

Blah.. why don't we see any pics of your setup ?

hehe.. not yet build yet lah... and finish build already i give u all a super load of pics... so can satisfy u untill u full

Some updates on the mounitng for the evap... thx DUNIEK .. very nice stuffs u sent me..




and heres the whole package..

i call them yao ming, allen iverson and iversons younger brother. :



This post has been edited by lolhalol: Nov 27 2007, 04:26 PM

bugger,the middle unit is mine?XD

It's very... engineered lots of custom-built parts

haha u ah.. kacau lah..lol.. j.kj.k.. ya ya lah urz lah.. lol

@wodenus

for cascade only quality parts or fitting parts will do or else its dangerous.. so best is always custom made...

eta and on ure setup??

-- oops ---

This post has been edited by wodenus: Nov 27 2007, 06:35 PM

dunno who this question is directed to but. my baby is scheduled for completion by late febuary../ early aprril

Wow... long time for yours. Wonder if he needs any help.


This post has been edited by wodenus: Nov 27 2007, 08:43 PM

waiting for the first setup that extreme ocer sold..

want to see how it look like..

sorry for the misunderstanding..

lol... u mean if i need help? nah not at the moment. neways i always welcome anyone who wants to have a nice chat on hardware .. at yamcha or online..
ahh np np.. no need to apologise.. my misunderstanding.

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Added on November 27, 2007, 9:24 pmbtw
@ ctskl

my cascade/SS will be quite diff from exocers units.. build by me and him but completely diff layout and performance numbers.. sorry

This post has been edited by lolhalol: Nov 27 2007, 09:24 PM

No I mean does ex need any help is your unit built already or are you both teaming up to build it later ?

nah ex dun need help .. besides building cascasde and phase units is dangerous... usually a single person job.. and my baby will be team job.. he will come to my hse and we build it together.. now researching and collecting parts..

Dun forget to call me lol
i come see see....

So you can build one as well ?

of course man.. definately will call u

yes... i have some experience with brazing ... still beginner but can get by lah.. just need to go buy tools.

How much do they cost ?

alot... vacumm pump is int he range of 2krm for a normal one... not to mention the costs of the brazing kit, flaring , swaging tool , brazing rods, refrigeratn gas, pipe vutters, insulation, condensor, purging gas, filter dryier.. will cost alot..

lolhalol, i don't mean to barge your thread and make it dirty, but since this project were made by you & extremeocer, would you mind going to the thread below:
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/580897

noted.. and posted... thx for bringing it up .. though i knew of the thread quite a while.. but i saw my name borught up so i needed to clear up some issues.. thx neway