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 Using your new salary as a benchmark, Advice appreciated

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TSpastafreak26
post Aug 15 2022, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(ongss @ Aug 15 2022, 05:59 PM)
Here are some stories to share:

(1) The clients alway attempt to offer lower ranges. But, if that ranges of salary worked, their inhouse recruiters probably already filled the roles and they don't need to open the roles for the external ones.
(2) Most of the recruitment firms have multiple clients. Any hiring sides that are offering the ranges that don't match the market - basically the recruiters will not place the priority. So, it is not true that the recruiters are at the hiring side. Why waste time in mission impossible?
(3) Time is money for recruiters. Any recruiters who submit candidates with higher expected salaries are bascially wasting everyone's time including their own time. Cases like this will result - unpleasant candidate experiences, frustrated customers and own reputations. I don't deny some recruitement firms will submit candidates just to meet the KPI and service levels specified by the clients. But, that is suicide for that firms. Afterall, one day, the customers will get fed up. Also, candidate withdrawals are part of KPI to monitor.
(4) No doubt, some recruiters just want to earn their commission and push the candidates to accept lower range of salaries. But, again, if the candidates leaves before the warranty period, the whole cycle start again. So, smarter recruiters will not do so.

So, the answer - depends what types of recruiters you encountered. I guess you probably met the right one and you got the range you wanted. Congrats.
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Hi, I find it interesting that you're talking about recruitment agencies. In your opinion, could you name some of the more... ethical(?) recruitment agencies?

What are your thoughts about the big names? And how about the smaller ones. Perhaps there is no absolute, but great to hear your opinions.

Thanks!
SUSBlackagar Boltagon
post Aug 15 2022, 08:50 PM

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I think Robert Walters is not bad recruitment agency.
ongss
post Aug 15 2022, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(pastafreak26 @ Aug 15 2022, 06:32 PM)
Hi, I find it interesting that you're talking about recruitment agencies. In your opinion, could you name some of the more... ethical(?) recruitment agencies?

What are your thoughts about the big names? And how about the smaller ones. Perhaps there is no absolute, but great to hear your opinions.

Thanks!
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Due to globalization, the recruiters may not be from local, they can be anywhere, e.g. Singapore, Philippines or India. MNC usually award the recruitment contracts to the international big recruitment firms so that there are volume of business and the recruitment fees are competitive. So, don't be surprised that both local and Indian recruiters call you for the same opening in Malaysia.

But, over the year, most MNC realize some improvements are needed because locals recruiters tend to know the local talents / markets well. So, it is common for MNC to have a panel of recruiters - big international recruitment firms and local specialist recruitment firms (not big one, could be 5 to 10 person type).

I can't tell you who is better.

Nevertheless, reputable MNC have standardized processes for better candidate experiences. Their panel of recruiters will need to ensure you are aware and agree to comply. So, if there is any recruiter approach you, patiently wait for your latest CV, brief you the recruitment process (either verbally or in email/whatsapp), they should be reliable. If the recruiters push you regularly or sending your CV despite you have not updated, then you know something is not right. That recruiter is trying to "book" your name. If you are the one that is hired, he/she get her commission. In the past, it was very common to get into arguement who sent the cv first.

So, if you feel that you don't have good experiences in the recruitment process - don't send them your CV.
coolguy_0925
post Aug 16 2022, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(ongss @ Aug 15 2022, 05:59 PM)
Here are some stories to share:

(1) The clients alway attempt to offer lower ranges. But, if that ranges of salary worked, their inhouse recruiters probably already filled the roles and they don't need to open the roles for the external ones.
(2) Most of the recruitment firms have multiple clients. Any hiring sides that are offering the ranges that don't match the market - basically the recruiters will not place the priority. So, it is not true that the recruiters are at the hiring side. Why waste time in mission impossible?
(3) Time is money for recruiters. Any recruiters who submit candidates with higher expected salaries are bascially wasting everyone's time including their own time. Cases like this will result - unpleasant candidate experiences, frustrated customers and own reputations. I don't deny some recruitement firms will submit candidates just to meet the KPI and service levels specified by the clients. But, that is suicide for that firms. Afterall, one day, the customers will get fed up. Also, candidate withdrawals are part of KPI to monitor.
(4) No doubt, some recruiters just want to earn their commission and push the candidates to accept lower range of salaries. But, again, if the candidates leaves before the warranty period, the whole cycle start again. So, smarter recruiters will not do so.

So, the answer - depends what types of recruiters you encountered. I guess you probably met the right one and you got the range you wanted. Congrats.
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Interesting sharing

What did not convince me was even with the offer I am barely at the bottom of their own published salary guide

And they started to say that is based on PJ or KV standard, okay...
Mavik
post Aug 16 2022, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(ongss @ Aug 15 2022, 10:06 PM)
In the past, it was very common to get into arguement who sent the cv first.
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Yeah, I faced this in the past. First, a recruitment agency sent my resume in for a role. But it wasn't successful as the role didn't meet my experience. Two years later, I submitted my own resume for another role and got the job. Out of the blue, suddenly the recruitment agency called me saying must say their name and that they submitted it first. Honestly, I told them off and said that is not the case and they didn't do any of the work as I had to do all of the work.
ongss
post Aug 16 2022, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(Mavik @ Aug 16 2022, 01:13 PM)
Yeah, I faced this in the past. First, a recruitment agency sent my resume in for a role. But it wasn't successful as the role didn't meet my experience. Two years later, I submitted my own resume for another role and got the job. Out of the blue, suddenly the recruitment agency called me saying must say their name and that they submitted it first. Honestly, I told them off and said that is not the case and they didn't do any of the work as I had to do all of the work.
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doh.gif

Actually, you have to blacklist that agency. Over the years, most of the big firms already have the Applicant Tracking Systems such as Taleo, SAP SuccessFactors, SmartRecruiters, Kenexa Brassring, and etc. Only crazy recruiters would go and argue they sent the CV first.

Also, in most of the contracts, recruitment firms can only retain the "right" of the candidates for 12 months. After 12 months, the clients have the right to approach the candidates directly. This is an unfair term, I know. But, many recruitment firms want the contracts and hope the clients not to play dirty trick. However, I do know some companies abuse this term, get the recruitment firms to do the free work by uploading the candidates cv with detailed contact into the ATS. The inhouse recruiters then use these ATS for their first round of recruiting.

This post has been edited by ongss: Aug 16 2022, 01:43 PM

 

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