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 The E90 - N52 over N43 ?

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mototo
post Aug 8 2022, 09:24 AM

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not sure if you have found a car yet, but here are my experiences. Note: always wanted a 6cyl bmw since the days of my folks owning a e36 325i in Msia.
below is a snippet of my N52B30 silvertop ( and n46b20, n46Nb20, m52b22 and M44B19) journey. Note: I have done all the work on the cars myself as labour is outrageously expensive here. Source all my oem/genuine parts from local suppliers here in aus. wont bore you with every detail but just the relevant ones to your search. I am not a BMW mechanic. Just a bloke who enjoys wrenching on cars and chases driving perfection from something affordable. I try to keep the cars OEM or OEM+ as much as I can and this is mostly reflected below.

Had e36 318is with m44 5sp manual. Great engine, but needs to be revved out all the time. Lack of torque down low much more apparent on the track where the SOHC m43 excelled. Sold car after an awesome 3 years owning it.

auctioned a e87 130i with a n52b30 silvertop and 6sp zf auto for cheap for the missus and to double up as my weekender. Fell in love with the characteristics of the engine. needed some maintenance work done as after some poking around the engine bay, I noticed whoever that worked on the engine last had 0 clue on how to work on a bmw. Occasionally has lifter ticking on this car. Only ran with Castrol Edge 5w-30 BMW LL01 approved.
to date I have replaced these on this car
rocker cover gasket, oil filter housing gasket, water pump, CCV, spark plugs, coilpacks, full zf transmission service including new genuine zf solenoids, tube seals, mechatronic bridge and plug seal, oil pan with filter and filled with ravenol 6hp fluid (already did an oil and pan filter change with zf lifeguard 6 before), bilstein b4 shocks,

Bought a e87 6sp manual with a supposedly cooked n46 engine. Top radiator outlet cracked so engine was overheated. Cooling system was cream cheese. changed rad, engine ran fine (?). dailied, tracked the car and sold it for a profit after a year owning it. I have noticed bmw rushed out the n42 which became the n43, n45, n46 and ultimately the n46N. This engine solved the low down lack of torque of the m44 with all the valve trickery.

Finally found a e87 130i with a zf 6sp manual and the silvertop n52b30. Currently my daily/weekender/tracktoy/lepas stress/therapist. Have replaced, clutch kit, bilstein b14 pss coilovers, e92 335i brakes, and the usual engine bits mentioned above.

Over the years, I have obviously done repairs to fair few bmw's (when your uncle and mates get to know you are a bmw enthusiast and a occasional track kaki....)

N42/n46's: 90% of n42/n46 equipped cars I have come across has either needed new timing chain guides or had timing chain guides replaced. Btch of a job. Not difficult just needs alot of patience and specialty tools. Valve stem seals are another problem point of this engine ontop of the other seals, vanos and valvetronic issues. But the shortcomings of this engine is made up when it is running fine and put up to its paces on a handling perspective. Coupled with Msport dampers and springs, this thing is slightly more balanced on a twisty track or small track as you can trail brake and use more momentum to steer it out of a turn. On the road the its got a very useable powerband but its not a powerhouse.

n52 silvertop: I'm sold on this engine family. sure it has it fair share of seals shenanigans but these are all light repairs when compared to n54's and n55's (bmw turbo 6 fans will stone me to death saying this lol). N52 port injected, n54/n55 direct injected so carbon buildup is another thing to consider ontop of turbo, fuel pump, injector and vacuum hoses issues. N55's also has crank issues like the S engines with the rod bearings. The instantaneous torque down low with the n52 is much more useable than to let boost buildup on a n54 and n55 and then get that hit. I have worked and driven (nearly bought too) a piggyback tuned manual f20 m135i with a n55. on stock base map comparing the 130i to the m135i, the 130i takes off more lively with less effort.

other points to note on e8x and e9x chassis.
sunroof: (if equipped) just needs the water channels blasted with air to clear gunk and crap very often to prevent water leaking
power window mechanism fails: Rebuild kits or the whole mechanism can be bought for cheap. not hard to replace. Make sure the vapour seals/door linings are intact as that is another point of water ingress.
FRM (footwell module): known to fail if car has not been jumpstarted properly or when changing batteries. Ensure replacement is the exact part number otherwise you will find functions not working or missing after replacement
diff bushes: more so on n52 equipped cars that cop a fair bit of hiding. Will tear causing a harsh downshift on both manual and auto.
dash and interior fitment creaks: YMMV. Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe sh*t.
interior plastics: rubbery coatings should have already melted off by now,
infotainment: not sure if official Malaysian CBU or CKD cars could be option with the HiFi sound system or the harman kardon. Very nice stock system. Has built in amp and a stronger underseat sub with a component setup on the front doors. Avoid units with the CCC/CIC aka idrive unless you know a good electronics installer that can do retrofits.

Obviously Sreten from M539restorations is my hero followed by VehicularDIY and Shoplifetv notworthy.gif

how every one of these cars that ive owned drove: absolutely beautiful. Even with worn shocks I had a more fulfilling drive around twisty roads as compared to my other hot hatch at home (a45). RWD over AWD/FWD I suppose. I am not bagging out FWD as I have driven a very well sorted third gen prelude with a h22a on the track and that car still gives me a very fuzzy feeling thinking about it. But the owner of the prelude has dumped a fair bit of $ to get it to how it drives now. But if I had known what I knew back in 2016 I would not have even bothered with the a45.

edit: oh yes forgot to mention, n52 silvertop has slightly more power than n52 blacktop. also n52 blacktop cars may have electric power steer vs hydraulic. this may or may not be applicable for official malaysian delivered models.

This post has been edited by mototo: Aug 8 2022, 09:28 AM
mototo
post Aug 12 2022, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(LORD SK @ Aug 11 2022, 02:02 PM)
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Hi, are you an Aussie who is posting from below under or you are living in Malaysia ?
*
Hi,
Malaysian living in Aus. Almost 20 years here. haha. Comp Sys engineer working for a international German electronics company so I do have an understanding or 2 about design considerations

Different strokes for different folks, I personally have not had any bolts snapped on working on any of my silvertops ( or for that matter any bmw engines so far)
I do have torque wrenches and replace every alu blue marked bolt that I feel is related to a structural part of the engine. Eg, bellhousing bolts are one time torque to spec bolts only. There's reasons behind this.
In the event of an accident, do you want the engine and gearbox flying into the cabin space or do you want the bellhousing bolts to snap and the whole setup falls to the ground protecting the cabin as safety design it was intended to do.
another example, on the thermostat and water pump bolts, when the car gets into a small fender bender where the front subframe cops the hit and forces its way into the engine, do you want the bolt thread on the engine to break from the impact of the subframe hitting the water pump or would you rather snap the bolt and use a bolt extractor to remove the piece and save the engine block?
I have just rebuilt a e87 130i for a mate where the car copped a hit from the lower right section right above the front mounting point for the front subframe to the chassis leg. The aluminum forged subframe took the brunt of the force and tapped the thermostat which snapped off its bolts. Everything else saved. Chassis leg still straight measured using a laser alignment tool using my own car as a reference point. Lucky for me the bolt snapped in the housing of the thermostat and I just needed a set of vice grip long nose to undo the remaining part and fitted a new thermostat and new bolts.
Car was a bargain, an economic write off at the salvage auctions with an untainted VIN/Chassis number as it was more than 15 years old from date of manufacture (its a funny system we have here). We just took the to a trackday where the car performed flawlessly with ventus rs-4's mounted on style 161 e90 staggered 17 inch rims

Alot of snapped bolts videos are mostly from countries with snow as well so do take that into consideration watching these videos.
The climate here is not the same as Malaysia. As for other mechanics's experiences etc, I do not disagree with their findings as thats their own experiences. I am just here to share mine and people in this industry that i come in contact with.
It is not just bmw with regards to this, you will be kidding yourself if you think other manufacturers do not use alu bolts and alu components in the engines. Engine mounts are one of them. With today's safety ratings, car designs evolve more around these aspects before form comes into play.
Do remember, these cars are still built with initial european market comsumption as their general basis. From the e36 the bean counters have began to put their input in building cars hence you have the brittle plastics in e36 interiors, subframe issues in e46 chassis, plastic engine components in 4cyl engines from 2002 and now subscription based options shakehead.gif
Bean counters and marketing would want to see you buy a new car every 3 years or pay a shitload to get the car maintained therefore engineers are also required to add in failure in the designs. Look up MTTF and MTBF.
Warranty here used to be 3 years or 100000kms. Studying the market here, most aussies that can afford a new bmw would either have it on a lease or a company expense (rarely anyone would pay cash outright or take a loan on it unless its a very special limited ///M car that they want to keep for a significant period of time, and everyone will try to use the tax scheme to their benefit, i mean if akong can subsidise for the car why should i pay for it out of pocket right brows.gif )
Now the servicing schedule here is every 25000kms or when the wretched service light comes on. Have a mate here (who is also a migrated malaysian) bought a brand new end of 2018 X3 M40i. The car had its first oil change in 2021 as he works from home and then covid came so it never reached 25000kms or the service light to come up. He had to bring it to a euro specialist to get it done because bmw would not do it as they told him no service light so its not due yet. You can pay us but we will not be doing this as a logbook service.
This car has the heralded B58 which is found in every baby ///M or ///M-lite cars these days inc the BMW supra (lets face it, who are we kidding here lol)
It has its timing chain setup BEHIND the engine next to the firewall. BMW timing chain guides never needed replacing... said no one ever wink.gif
What is the cause for these components to break down by the time they hit 100000kms or 3 years ?
LACK OF OIL CHANGES IS ONE OF THEM.
The team here figured, most normal bmw owners will only change the oil when the computer tells the to do so, and most will miss it by a few hundred ( some thousands) kms too. So potentially it could be running on 30000kms oil before a change is done. On a highly strung engine too....
I understand oil technology has vastly improved over the years, but one cant help but think, oil is still oil, once it degrades, it starts to loose its properties.
I have watched this on my oil temp gauge on my a45, at 10000kms in the oil heats up more, fresh oil it hovers around 98-99deg C. at 10000kms its at 106deg c on average.

So, to put things into perspective, most 100000kms and or 3 year old bmw would be lucky to have 3 services in this duration. Owners with leases will drive it into bmw and drive out with another new bmw renewing the lease again or companies will change them out for tax purposes. BMW will pick the best ones for their pre owned range, rest will be on sold to wholesalers. Dodgy used car dealers will add in the services into idrive to paint a rosy picture. NSW Police highway patrol (equivalent to the PDRM pasukan helang) uses g30 530D as their cars and they get churned over every 3 years on average, obviously for tax purposes and also from a maintenance standpoint.

Both my silvertops paint a very different picture based on owners. Both same year of manufacture ( just months apart). One auto one manual. Both at 16xk kms now.
The manual car has had a very spirited life, the auto car from what i can gather has been owned by a older couple who obviously did not thrash it much. As such the manual car has been looked after more diligently as its previous owners would have some form of mechanical knowledge or enthusiasm. The auto car was looked after as per the books ( and then also taking costs into factor after its warranty ended)
Manual silvertop: no sludge, no varnishing on components, timing chain plastics is light brown, no lifter tick, 0 hiccups. Overall the engine is alot cleaner as the previous owners replaced sump gaskets, oil seals etc.
Auto silvertop: slight sludge, some varnishing on components furthest away from oil pump, timing chain darker brown but not as bad as some i have worked on. has occasional lifter tick and randomly the vanos solenoids will chuck a spaz and give me a CEL. clear it and its good for an indefinite period of time.



I tell most people buying bmw's whether used or new
Buy new flip on its 3rd or 5th birthday (whatever warranty period applies for each country)
Buy used and have at least $5k AUD rainy day funds
Do not buy a used bmw if you are unable to wrench on it yourself or have a very good BMW mechanic.


I think I have gone off on quite a tangent. Apologies.

Back to topic is either silvertop or blacktop is fine if you ask me. Just get a trustworthy bmw specialist to look over it before purchase. A good bloke should be able to tell you what has been touched, what has not and how the work has been done (either poorly done with no real understanding of design or things have been replaced to correct specifications)
Funnily enough the silvertop is more sought after here than the blacktop in the 130i community


edit: if you watch the alpina b7 engine rebuild video by sreten from m539 restorations, you will see that he HAD issues with mixing different kinds of metals in his engine block. It essentially blew up whilst he was running the engine in as per the builder's specifications. He also then went to seek opinion from an engine metallurgy person and figured out the cause of the failure.

This post has been edited by mototo: Aug 12 2022, 10:14 AM

 

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