I am a ASM in building material sector (mostly direct contracting in supply and install) and I've been placed on a PIP very recently, and there are 4 KPI and deliverables to be met

on the 2nd KPI, it required me to get at least 15 quotation every month, I have been doing supply and install shower screen for past 4 years and in this FY the company have new business model and we going to do supply and install of Office partition, which by the way just started on 1st July 2020 and yay, I've put on PIP and out of 15 quotation I get every month, 50% of them has to be office partition related

then on the 4th KPI, i am being asked to to propel back end support paperworks (such as QS' job, progress claim submission to main contractor, sub con claim and it has to be flawless and so on), and on my PIP i have been put on blame that the project is losing money because I caused duplicate payment

I tried to fight it off by saying on my employment letter it did not say that I need to do QS' job as I am employed as an Sales and all my duties on Employment letter are sales,products specification related

but my boss said since we are in direct contracting (and no we do not have a QS to carry all these duties), I have responsibility to do these

I have also asked HR and the HR manager said that since you have been working for 4 years but you did not voice out your concern, you already gave others a impression that you will be able to carry up the duties

I've take the PIP letter and ask one of the adviser in Minister of human resource in Putrajaya, he told me that perhaps the nature of business does require you to do that, however if the company did fire me at the end of this PIP because of this, I can file a unfair dismissal to my employer and the judge will always look at the employment letter

I mean it is very obvious that the boss is trying to get rid of me, but if i stay and fight, what are my chances of winning?

just strike a deal (give good reference) and resign to move on la. no point fighting it. so what if you win? does it make your life better/happier just to get an ounce of justice?

I did thought about that but I am going to secure one of a very huge project near KLCC which I've been following up since 2020, I know the sales still belongs to the company and very likely my manager will take all the credit after they terminate me in 3 months later, but still it is my effort and I really hope to live to see the day I got the LOA

Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) should be designed to improve staff from poor or below average performance to at least average or slightly more than average - anything above that is a bonus for the company. It shouldn't be designed to push staff to become exceptional within the program.

What is the intention to set such high KPI in PIP, only your manager knows, depending on the industry & nature of business.

actually my manager already asked me to resign since early June, and after I told them no for the third time, they put me on a PIP

in fact in our company none of the ASM have been set KPI to quote/tender 15 projects in a month, not even Sales manager are required to do that

In yearly KPI yes there is certain amount to be meet, usually it will be total Sum of RM xxx of regardless how many job you quoted/spec per FY as long as you meet the amount set on KPI, not a fixed number of 15 projects per month

PIP means you've been earmarked for 'termination'
Either you can handle all the unrealistic demands, or really, best to find a new job as you're treading on quicksand now.
One mistake however minor can be ballooned up as your grounds of dismissal for poor performance [since u alr on PIP] they will say you show no improvement despite sudah kasi chance etc.

Remember as dreamer101 said
HR is NOT your friend.
HR only puts COMPANY interest at heart.
We as employees are just slaves.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jul 11 2022, 02:28 PM

Wait - now you are saying that you have been asked to resign before the PIP, and it has been asked for 3 times at least. Any reason provided why you have been asked to resign repeatedly?

If there is no concrete reason - example, poor work performance - then company action can be construed along the 'unlawful termination' line. I am no HR, but for company to push employee to resign without solid reason, and then pushing employee into PIP as a 'way' to earmark you for 'termination' seems not right. Maybe HR practitioner would know better. You need to ensure that the reasoning is clear and keep record of all event that lead to this situation.

Bottom line is, like others has said, the company wants you to go. Better to look for somewhere else.

This post has been edited by BS8110: Jul 12 2022, 07:50 AM

My suggestions:

1) Find a job and leave.
2) Seek an agreed compensation package for you to leave ASAP.
3) If you insist, stay and fight, once they release you, proceed to file a constructive dismissal claim.

This is certainly an unfavorable situation. Right, I'd also like to know why the company had asked you to resign 3x? Due to your position being redundant in their eyes, or they wanted to bring in someone else for the position or...?

Simply put, in order to avoid possible unlawful dismissal - make sure you document all these that transpired in order to protect yourself. Also keep track of your HR's reply to you.

Secondly, the company can't terminate you just like that unless you were caught committing crime or something serious that could damage the company's reputation. I'm also not from HR background but based on what I know, on behavioral/ performance related "problems", they will need to issue you 3 verbal warning, and 3 written warning before a termination letter can be issued.

Lastly if the company have no intention to keep you around... personally I find it rather pointless to stay. In fact, I would probably tell it to their face, "Sure, give me your best offer then we'll talk." If they'll offer you a fat severance package, why not?

tbh I have thought of lot of possibility, one the the nearest one will be they already knew they can't achieve the sales target this year, so they wants to reduce headcount, and by end of this FY, they can tell management about their stories

anyway I got a warning letter today, on the warning letter they talked about the mistakes I made in year 2020/2021, one of them wasn't even on my job scope, and they told me in upcoming PIP review if I still did not improve, they might have to terminate me

To stay and fight, you must be very sure the boss is in the wrong and not doing his job. You must be sure of a win, or at least you are willing to take that high-risk chance.

Otherwise, it is not productive use of your time to fight. Leave as soon as you can find something else, or even before.

well I have listed out what is their wrong doing so far
- asked me to resign 3 times, once a week since early june
- placed me on PIP as soon as I said no for the third time
- unrealistic KPI on PIP
- lack of coaching in deliver the KPIs
- introduce job outside of my main duties
- warning letter that have nothing to do with my performance except mistake made in years

Sorry, let me expand further.

It is not just about what you think is wrong. You must present your case with HR and/plus other senior management, ie your boss's boss.

In your presentation, you need to appeal past your immediate boss. You need to have an outstanding resume to get past your (bad) boss and go higher up.

Alternatively, you can hire an expensive lawyer to argue your case on technicalities.

Anyway, I've given my 2sen. You decide.

It's a myth that the company should issue 3 warning letters for performance related problems.

https://dnh.com.my/3-things-that-could-get-you-fired/

They're really adamant about making you leave. At this point, prioritize your work reputation and avoid being unlawfully dismissed/ terminated by the employer. Not too sure whether it's "wrong" for employer to give a warning letter for work not in scope, because as per offer letter or JD, companies often highlight there will be task(s) assigned from time to time that's not within the JD.

Do consider consulting legal advice at this point to protect yourself.

Eh yala, my bad. This impression always stuck on me. Thanks for the correction!

This post has been edited by sweet_pez: Jul 13 2022, 09:52 AM

Yeah I am pretty much doomed ;s


the PIP suppose to last 90 days, and HR told me they will have a performance review by end of this month, if I can't meet any of the KPI set on PIP (or show no improvement at all), they might terminate me by end of July

TS, it's obvious the tough KPI is to make you leave (by PIP)/quit yourself.

Just move on and start applying other job.

But IF you still get PIP in your next job, you'll need to do self-reflection on your weakness/job suitability.

Ini.

If I were you, unless your salary is low I wont waste time fighting.

Just hold on to the job as long as you can, meanwhile find new job.

the pay is decent, and it is a MNC

PIP is just to get rid of you. So not surprising they make it impossible. Suggest you start looking for a new job

Thats why hang on but meantime find new job.

They will find 100 reason to kick you out. Your career progression has ended in this co. If wanna progress find new place.

lel they just did annual performance review with me turns out my sales for last FY was okay, not the best but it definitely not categorize as "under perform", at least I am not getting below 3 for my sales performance, if I hit full target set by company I will be able to get 20k incentive, turned out I get like 11k out of 20k, that is like more than 50%

so now that leads to a question why did they put me on PIP

and the PIP is poorly managed, no black and white on weekly meeting, during monthly PIP review, my manager is the one that say everything, like I expected to get 15 enquiries per month or get tender/quotation with amount of not less than RM 3mil, I got 2 tenders this month with RM 2.4mil, she still give me review "no improvement", and she just send the PIP review via an E-mail

As part of the PIP process, if you actually don't acknowledge and counter sign it, you can have grounds of an unfair dismissal as well. Please ensure that you keep all of the evidence that you have on your side (e.g. if they give you a RM3mil tender limit which is not normal and other colleagues don't get that high, keep that as evidence). This way, when they want to fire you, you have evidence to bring them to labour court for unfair dismissal.

Yeah I have all the evidence, they placed me on PIP on 29th June, and issued me a warning letter on 12th July, warned me for 3 issues that happened in year 2020/2021, on the warning letter they say these are the issues that leave them no choice but to place me on a PIP (anyway these tasks is assigned to me on ad-hoc basis, they are more on site coordination and not related to sales)

and all the items on PIP is not related to warning letter they issued to me, and 1 of the item on PIP is not my job and it did not even happen (my manager said I don't have project file for all projects , this have caused the company pay duplicated payment to sub con and suppliers, the company suffered financial and reputation lost) where I didn't even involve in payment making as a sales person, also they did not warn me about this either verbally or on the warning letter

Also, on my KPI sheet for FY20/21, the company only set a target for me to get 60 tenders/enquiries for entire year, now she ask for min of 15 per month (yeah she does put the word Min on the PIP), even if it is not PIP, it is very unrealistic to ask a sales person to get 3 times tenders/enquiries after 1 year lol