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English Clubs Manchester United Street Talks

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statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 07:16 AM

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QUOTE(silvertoes @ Aug 9 2022, 12:41 AM)
Arnautovic played for ETH at FC Twente..
He pick this guy probably because he lost faith on the board to get him his main target.. this is my speculation la..

Rabiot on the other hand could be a decent replacement for McT..
Not great, but decent.. 18 trophies this guy won.. the last one was in 2021..
Again, going for him probably cause ETH not bothered to request for top players anymore..
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I'm with you on this.
Even Fabrizio mentioned this was 'crazy'.

This is desperation mode. We are now going for players midtable EPL clubs don't even target and generally just getting the easy targets because they are available. It is a huge indictment against United's transfer team and the entire department should be replaced. It is also a failure of our DoF Murtough to be able to provide the targets the manager needs and causing the current desparate situation of last minute bargain shopping. Again, we are bargain shopping because of the budget.

ETH has NOT FAILED. The club has failed ETH.

statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 07:36 AM

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QUOTE(Purpleheaven @ Aug 9 2022, 12:05 AM)
Seriously, whats so great about ten hag ah? Dowan to talk about his tactics yet, but he's choosing clearly underperforming players like he's scared of someone above. Maguire like shit, still captain. Mctominay cant do anything, and yet still cement his place. And he's still clinging onto ronaldo who clearly dowan to stay. It's really not a good sign of a good manager, or a strong manager which is needed for the current squad.

And i dont know why arnautovic. Looks like ten hag is desperate already. Just want quick mediocre success, no intention of building the team anymore....
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If we are serious about Top 4, we need Top 4 players. If McFred is not good enough, the club needs to make Top 4 alternatives available to the manager for him to use. Who are McFred's alternatives in the squad that is proven Top 4 quality? None. This is the DoF's responsibility. We can even clear the owners of blame here as they do not look at day to day operations. This is Arnold and Murtough. The CDM position could have been fixed for as little as 20M for Bissouma as proven PL quality.

The thing about the situation is ETH is brought in to do a rebuild. Are players like Arnautovic part of United's future?
Even in their prime they weren't considered a United player. Even if he comes and does well, it is a credit to the player and his performances but does not erase the utter failure of the transfer team & DoF.

statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(zhou.xingxing @ Aug 9 2022, 08:59 AM)
Well looks like we going for a quick salonpas fix instead. But do rmb that ETH is one that doesnt want rr to stay though.. not sure on the backstory of this yet. If rr is here i think we can get some transfer done earlier
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ETH opted to go without RR is most likely from a playing philosophy perspective, not a transfer negotiation consideration. Rangnick is familiar with the gegenpress while ETH does positional play. RR's responsibility as a consultant does not extend to making transfer deals. That is Murtough's job.

Remember Jan last year when RR wanted to bring players in using his contact? Or even his playing staff? The club screwed that up royally as well so I guess what we are seeing is normal for Manchester United having the worst club staffing in the League.

statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 10:47 AM

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QUOTE(Purpleheaven @ Aug 9 2022, 10:03 AM)
Yes, lack of top4 players is on the DOF or transfer team.

But right now, you just have to work with what you have, and find the best of what you have. Is ten hag doing that? Having no top 4 quality player is not an excuse to keep playing mcfred. Thats the wrong question. The right question is, is there mcfred alternative that is an improvement to mcfred? And you ownself see how mctom play la and you tell me how bad he is. IF none of the academy players is even on that level, then the academy is horrible already. I think youth players in mid table clubs or lower can put in a better shift than mctominay. If ten hag is only playing mctom because of his influence or first team status, like he is playing maguire because of captaincy, then that's on the manager. The Manager's job is to bring the best out of his team, and first step is to choose the best players at his disposal. What kind of rebuild if he gonna let traditions dictate his teamsheet and beg a disinterested 37 year old to stay in the club?
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I think I understand where you are going. So I'll pull out the questions and reply here.

Is the a McFred alternative in the squad for the manager?
No. One is a Scotland International and one is a Brazilian international. The academy kids we have are not an upgrade over them. Yes I have seen our kids in pre season. Against lower league opponents they will have a chance. Against motivated PL sides running rings around Maguire, no chance. Its not our academy is bad, it's quite decent. It's our recruitment that has been bad to not give our manager options.


The manager should work with what he has .
If this is the philosophy and we accept the consequences, I have no problems. City would never appoint Pep and ask him to work with what he has but I digress. Let's say we are a club that chooses this path. I will pick a precedent, a world class manager. Klopp. Klopp's first season at Liverpool he opted to work with what he has. Liverpool finished eighth. Subsequent seasons Klopp made so many changes the entire squad changed and I think only Milner was left from the original squad. This is Klopp.

So if eighth place is an acceptable target for this season, then I have no issues. World class Klopp finished eighth, maybe if ETH can too.

It's all in the approach vs expectation. If the manager doesn't get what he wants, we shouldn't target Top 4. If club wants to target Top 4, then the manager should get some backing.





statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(tzxsean @ Aug 9 2022, 01:57 PM)
Realistically, as a consultant or DOF, the play style should come from the top/board?

then consultant or DOF work to the requirement

I'm not sure if Club should follow DOF or RR's playstyle in this case ..since DOF can always change .. but playstyle or DNA should stick ...

interesting question
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Allow me to chip in on the function of the footballing structure.

The play style that a club aspires to play is from the Director of Football. The board does not usually dictate playing style for the club except for a few exceptions where there is legacy involved. An example here is Barcelona who play to the principles of Cryuffian total football. Jose Mourinho would never be allowed to play his brand of football there. Sometimes the Technical Director weighs in.

In this case, neither Murtough nor Fletcher seems to subscribe to a particular style. When RR was brought in, the club saw the gegenpress as something of the future and wanted him to be the consultant in implementing this together with the new manager. At this time, it was not known who the manager will be.

The ETH was identified. ETH represented a philosophical clash of styles as he was a proponent if the Dutch positional play while Rangnick was of the gegenpress. My opinion is that these clash of styles between manager and consultant resulted in RR leaving. Which is the right thing to do philosophically.

statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(lee82gx @ Aug 9 2022, 02:08 PM)
Let me make it clear.
I am not calling for his head. In the end he will be sacked based on what comes out not by whether or not I call for his head anyway.

Faith - I lack it so severely because I SEE NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL, from the 45mins which we surrendered. We have 2 different players but we are failing in the same ways - No organized pressing up. Surrender possession, take too long on the ball. Maguire way up in midfield when he need to defend. Full backs nowhere to be seen in both goals conceded. The other CB scrambling and tackling like mad because he has to play both attackers. Away team camping at our Penalty box like they are home. Us creating zero chances because we like to long ball when its time to play it on the ground.

So, yes I support the manager in the sense that I don't support to fire him after this one game. But I don't support doing the same thing and expecting different results.
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I see what you mean in the 90 minutes against Brighton. It is eerily similar to when Rangnick started. Manchester United players revert to type under stress.

They seem to start with a game plan and try to play. But once put under pressure, the same players seem to revert back to how it was under Ole. They don’t seem to unlearn and relearn.

At the 45 minute mark, the team is doing the exact same pattern of play as when under Ole.

QUOTE(tzxsean @ Aug 9 2022, 02:13 PM)
makes sense too

but what happens if the DoF leaves then and is replaced by another DoF with different approach?
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For clubs that subscribe to a footballing philosophy like Barca or Ajax, play style does not change.

Now for most clubs that aren’t set on a certain style, there may be changes. See the Everton of today and Everton of 6 years ago under previous management, see the difference in styles?

But sometimes there can be no changes. Some DoF are comfortable in allowing the manager to dictate the play style. See Arteta at Arsenal.

Long answer to the question, depends on the club.


statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ Aug 9 2022, 02:16 PM)
So... we are getting Adrian Rabot eh? With FDJ still hanging in the air.

Then again.... 15 million... might not be a bad buy after all. Remember Fergie asked about a certain someone in Leeds....?
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By the Leeds reference, are you referring to our Carsome legend? Our legend defender who arrived in a white suit? Or the forward that we converted into a CDM? smile.gif

Thing about Rabiot is that he plays closer to a number 10 than a number 6. Or we are buying hoping he can convert. Otherwise with Bruno, Eriksen and Rabiot our creative midfield slot is going to get congested.
statikinetic
post Aug 9 2022, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(IpohGuyz @ Aug 9 2022, 10:52 PM)
#BreakingNews
Erik is unhappy with John Murtough. He wants a proper Sporting Director at the club.

Erik has once again brought Paul Mitchell’s name forward to be SD.

Already had heated conversations with John Murtough expressing his disappointment in the transfer activity from Man Utd.

However A lot is happening today.

Rabiot agreement is imminent. Not seen as Frenkie alternative so doesn’t effect that, but Erik wants midfielders in fast.

Approval of this deal close.

£15m initial fee to Juve.

#mufc
Dunno this fb news true or not. But murtough is working from 8am to midnight!
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Consistent with my thoughts that Murtough is the responsible party for the transfer failures.
When we talk about a rebuild, this includes the DoF if he cannot perform. Murtough had his chance this summer.

Speaking of a clearout, Murtough has been here since 2013 with Moyes. Does he have a success story to write home about?

statikinetic
post Aug 10 2022, 07:26 AM

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QUOTE(Winter-3 @ Aug 10 2022, 12:44 AM)
So, if Monaco wins and PSV loses, Rabiot joins Monaco and Gakpo joins us.

If PSV wins and Monaco loses, Gakpo stays in PSV and Rabiot joins Manchester United.

Who will you support tonight, Monaco or PSV???
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Source on the dependency?
Rabiot is in advanced talks on personal terms.
statikinetic
post Aug 10 2022, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(IpohGuyz @ Aug 10 2022, 09:04 AM)
Not gonna happen. Unless he got 5b to splash. Glazer will raise price knowing ppl desperate.

Saw this in fb. Just wow!

Opening day passing stats:

Rodri: 95 passes (94% accuracy)
Thiago: 47 passes (87% accuracy)
Jorginho: 60 passes (83% accuracy)
Hojberg: 61 passes (88% accuracy)
Ndidi: 68 passes (88% accuracy)
Kamara: 62 passes (85% accuracy)

⚠️ McTominay: 18 passes (66% accuracy)
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Which is why in my opinion the loss against Brighton is a midfield deficiency. This component is critical in connecting the defence to the attack and generating chances.

But it should come as no surprise logically.

What was the position most needed to fill end of last season? CDM.
Did we buy a CDM? No.
Result : The midfield plays like last season.

statikinetic
post Aug 10 2022, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(KennRicky @ Aug 10 2022, 11:14 AM)


Actually this is good, if not every club treat us like rich dumb.
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Manchester United fans actually influencing transfer decisions. Haha!

On Arsenal's disastrous start last season, keep in mind it was because almost their entire starting lineup was out because of Covid and they had to play kids. Even Arsenal fans understood the situation and didn't scream for Arteta's head. Most of them.
statikinetic
post Aug 10 2022, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(lee82gx @ Aug 10 2022, 02:20 PM)
knowing our owners, they will request he Chicarito pay to play.
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You're not thinking corporate enough.

Sell Ronaldo to ensure we have no forwards.
Then get fans to pay by subscribing to the club Forward Fund if they want Chicharito to fill in at forward. Chicharito of course will be asked to play for free. If fans don't pool enough money, ETH is under orders to only play youngsters from the U17 team at forward.

statikinetic
post Aug 11 2022, 08:01 AM

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Even if we sign De Jong, which would have been an A grade transfer, it has to be a C at best because of the way it dragged and the drama that came with it.

If De Jong stays at Barca, it becomes an F for the protracted transfer saga without result.

The catastrophic result and absolute horror show is if Chelsea signs De Jong. After all the effort United put in to prise him. This is a result that is beyond embarrassing . I suppose if this is close to happen, expect Arnold and Murtough to throw money at the problem hoping it’ll solve it as it they will be made to look like absolute buffoons.

statikinetic
post Aug 12 2022, 11:34 PM

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News of Marcus Rashford links to PSG coming out. Probably from Rashford's agent, and the agent doesn't do anything without player approval. There is some interest from PSG but nothing concrete yet.

I've probably hounded Rashford more than any other player in United. He needs a change. Rashford and United are going nowhere.

I'd like him to be sold while he still commands some value. Otherwise, it'll be another Dele Alli case for cheap. Take the money and go buy Antony. So we can go with Sancho on the left and Antony on the right.

Just transfer rumours for now.


statikinetic
post Aug 13 2022, 08:44 AM

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I think you guys have it right about Rashford that he is leveraging the situation for a payrise amidst very mediocre performances. Rashford to me had hot form at the start of his career, form which made him look way above his abilities. This coupled with his young age gave a lot of people the impression he was a world class player on the brink. When we scrutinize his body of work over his career, he is more Jesse Lingard than Kylian Mbappe. Would a club present a pay rise to such a player? Unlikely. But Manchester United aren't just any other club. The thing with Rashford is non-performance factors weight very heavily in his favour. He is not just from the academy but born in Manchester. United prizes such a profile and might cave in to pay his insane wage asks just because of it.

Rashford has one year left on his contract but the club has an option to extend by another year. That is two years. If the club is not going to submit to an insane wage increase for a subpar player around 300+k, now is the time to sell him. Rashford's value is going to drop next year in his final year, and then he walks for free. But Manchester United being the poster boy for mismanagement will probably end up letting Rashford go on a free for a lucrative contract somewhere else. We had so many examples already.


On expectations at the club. We now visibly see the difference of ambition between club and manager. ETH wants to give the season a go. The club actually wants to play down expectations. And this ties in to the club trying to operate on a limited transfer budget. Otherwise, we'd probably have players like Antony in already. So from the looks of it, we have a manager who wants to try for success. But a club who have not given the manager the players he asked nor wants to invest for a Top 4 finish. I guess as long as there is sponsorship and we are selling merchandise, everything is fine.

statikinetic
post Aug 13 2022, 10:30 AM

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Cracks are beginning to show at the club between manager and the board.

On top of existing transfer issues, ETH is rumoured to want Chelsea's Ziyech as a cheaper alternative to Antony that the club does not want to spend on. The board had veto-ed against any move for Ziyech.

Look guys. At this point the transfer team is really going for targets the club management wants. Not ETH.

statikinetic
post Aug 13 2022, 10:31 PM

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I heard in FM there is going to be a new custom scenario called Manchester United.

Basically you take over as manager but the club screws up your transfers every season and gives you random players instead. You are then expected to finish in Top 4 or get the sack. smile.gif

statikinetic
post Aug 13 2022, 11:43 PM

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Arsenal's play is so slick.
After watching United for so long, this looks like fantasy football.
statikinetic
post Aug 14 2022, 12:10 AM

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No McFred already dream come true for some of you guys. smile.gif
statikinetic
post Aug 14 2022, 12:32 AM

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Fred's first touch of the game is so typical. biggrin.gif

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