I am sorry to burst anyone's bubble as Im being objective. I have never seen anything so remotely linked to reality. I wont ramble too much:

a) The main mast is without any radar and resembles the Indian Kolkata class ship with carries Israeli! Elta martime radar arrays.

b) It appears to have 2 127m BAE system cannons (yet a another calibre round in Indo navys diverse range of calibres). The 127mmm gun on the upper deck does not seem to make sense unless it is smaller - you need a lot of vertical and horizontal deck space for a gun that size.

c) Fantastically, the model shows more VLS than an arleigh burke destroyer with never seen before VLS designs - it looks like MICA in the front and why on earth do you waste so much deck space for a shorad?

I think these are Indo's own inputs which may or may not make sense.

It reminds of the mock-up of the so called stealth fighter from a non aircraft manufacturing company InfoGlobal which resembles the much maligned Iranian Qaher 313.

By the way, Oct has passed. What happened to the steel cutting of the Arrowhead FFBMW?

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 5 2022, 08:39 PM

There doesnt seem to any major Indo pocurement during the exhibition - just lots of models.

Previously, I talked about Indo's financial hurdles. This is also nothing new - known to France and US. Indo cannot afford the Rafales and F5ID:

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/transport/...-over-financing



They have apparently bought 6 Rafales M? But I dont see it in Dassaults order book so it may be second hand.

Now if you conduct open source search, you will see that they are buying second hand Mirage 2000 which is admittedly outdated so the pool of money for Rafales become even smaller.

Heres the problem - these 4th gen and 4.5 gen planes will either be outdated or second rated in 2030. Some like the F15s will see their production lines closed by 2030.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 5 2022, 08:32 PM

Singapore has bought more Leopard 2SG tanks

Great chart!

It looks like about 224 Leopard 2SG tanks for now...

Remember that they are meant to replace some 350 retired AMX13 SM1 tanks. It is possible this number may reach more than 300 Leo 2SG tanks.

Indo has 103.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 5 2022, 08:46 PM

The 224 Leo2SG MBTS are protected by both passive and active protection systems - AMAP-ADS.





Older 2019 article before Singapore bought even more Leo 2SG tanks:

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/02/21...eopard-2-tanks/





I suspect there is a reason why the armour on the Leo 2SG is straight or planar:





Because the AMAP-ADS will be installed on it - see below when the Leo 2 is equipped with AMAP-ADS:



Note: It is not necessary to install Active Protection Systems in peace time. They are expensive and ought to kept in prime condition, and installed only if the situation demands it.

Because of the modular nature of the system, the hard kill counter measures/interceptors can also be placed facing upwards to deal with top-down missile attacks- it is the only true Western 360 degrees active protection system available:



Other Active Protection Systems will have to kill the incoming missile at an angle before it reaches its zenith or top attack position - which has been proven to be effective too.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 6 2022, 04:36 PM

Meanwhile, Singapore's Hunter AFV uses a special Elbit turret which is designed to be installed with the Trophy Active Protection System:





Read more: https://militaryleak.com/2019/03/03/rafael-...and-spike-atgm/

The initial prototypes had a turret from rheinmetall:

Note the serial number. This is the 507th Hunter AFV unit built by Singapore.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 6 2022, 08:56 PM

This is a robust design aka Type 31 and a good choice. But I think PT Pal are meddling with Babcock until everyone gets confused.

Japan Fleet Review 2022 live.



It is 3hr+ long so itll be sometime before your respective ship is seen..

This one better:

Thanks on the 76mm super rapid - which again doesnt make sense to have two. A more reasonable option is to have a 35mm millennium gun on the upper deck.

Does not remotely resemble sylver launchers for Asters - as ive said, it is unlike any i have seen.

The mast does not resemble the current design of Sea Fire though the arrays can indeed be integrated into different masts. My point is - if this is a radar with planar arrays, it is missing from the mast after all the effort of coming up with the model.

Brahmos will trigger CAATSA and more importantly, how do you integrate Brahmos with Western C2 systems? Go Indian?

The model is nothing more than someone's wet dream or that the folks behind this project are as undecided and confused from the outset esp. given the lack of funding. If this project goes ahead, I am expecting the original Iver frigate sans most of the things you see in the model.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 11:36 AM

I dont think they are the Super Rapid version but the basic 76mm guns with slower firing rate.

But yes, more and more I look at it- the model seems to be carrying 2 127mm guns.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 11:49 AM

This is what..with serial No. 31? No. 310?



If the prototype is revealed in 2018 - must it be the case that they start testing then or prior to it?

And what was ST Engineerings land division or 10k plus workers doing in the 4 to 5 years after the construction of the Terrex is done? 500/ assume 4+ =100+ chassis thereabout in one year.

Read up on SAF serial numbers: http://kementah.blogspot.com/2013/08/guide...af-mid.html?m=1

Oh really, an enclosed mast? OR R u CONFUSED with an integrated mast - in which case, my point still stands - where are the planar arrays if it is an integrated mast esp. since they have gone as far as to put in the other details?

This is the difference between a typical integrated mast (left pic) and an enclosed mast (right pic):



See the difference in shape esp. for the radar that is housed "within" the conical radar dome for the enclosed mast.

Oh yes you are right abt the VLS cells on the AB. Correction: It has more VLS cells than a basic Type 45 or Horizon destroyers. Big difference it makes in terms of the point Im making.

The 35mm is cheaper and can deal with air targets. The Italians and French do not use the 35mm millennium gun and that is why they have 2 76mm guns. The French may use a Nexter 40mm gun in future. The Indonesians have both the 35mm gun and 76mm SR. It makes more sense to have 1 76mm gun and 35mm gun if the concern is air threat with the 76mm retaining a better anti surface capability.

Have you seen a Brahmos integrated on a western naval oriented ship? One can always hypothetically say it can be done. But easier said than done. Also, who is going to pay? India?

The only one running around like a chicken is You. Some people enjoy posting and having a discussion. Grow up KLthinker! Wonder why ah?

Edit: ST has about 22k+ workers working in the various sectors.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 01:38 PM

Whats wrong with you KLthinker? Your post is emotional. Cannot take a critique?

By all means.. if you think they are fibbing with serial numbers for something considered a run-of-the-mill equipment as an IFV esp. given the hundreds of M113 they are going to replace with the Hunter AFVs anyway.

Of course the model is incomplete and unreliable. That is what im saying..duh. The model has never seen before vls and what appears 2 be 2 127mm guns and a mast without radar (not an enclosed mast).

You are missing the point. The Type45 is a 8000 ton to 9000 ton ship and weapons like Asters and Brahmos are not light or their launchers. As another poster has pointed out, there may be stablization issues. There must be a reason for ships of a certain size to carry a typical number of VLS.

Some would argue the 35mm Millenium is better at in an anti-aircraft/anti-missile role with its 1000 round per minute rate compared to the 120 rounds per minute for the SR 76mm.

And you are missing the point again on the Oto Melara. The Indo navy uses the 35 millenium and 76mm guns. It makes sense to use these then spend more on 2 SR 76mm.

It certainly is a far fetch from reality to see Brahmos on a western oriented ship seeing as such there is none now! You want to pay for the integration?

Edit:

Singapore bought approximately 1000 M113s (Top secret right for the number of Hunter AFVs Sg will acquire to replace the M113s (sarcasm))

300 M113A1 APCs delivered between 1973 and 1974
500 M113A1 APCs delivered between 1978 and 1980
200 M113A2 APCs delivered between 1988 and 1989

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 07:14 PM

Double post- see below.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 03:36 PM

Seriously your posts dude...





https://www.army-technology.com/projects/hu...ng-vehicle-afv/

News to me. Development started in 2006. ST supposedly started construction in 2017 (after the last batch of Terrex IFVs (of which there are 300-400 based on serial numbers). It is very reasonable to expect 500 Hunter AFVs by now in end-2022.

I am no longer inclined to believe what Indo "intends" to buy as it just crazy - e.g. first Brahmos, then NSM, now Atamaca. Or F15ID, Rafale, KFX, Mirage 2000, etc.

The root issue is that there is no funding. It is an onerous process of seeking approval for commensurate foreign loans, getting the foreign loans in a difficult climate and investors and contractors worried that Indo can afford the loans with interest.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 07:12 PM

And that is why Ive said it is someone's wet dream. They took the original Iver design and extended it and placed presumably weapon or sensor placements without specifying the make or consideration if the ship can take the weight, etc.

Why do we keep getting news on the steel cutting again and again and often on x month and then another x month and the news refreshes itself?

The photo in the Janes article does not correspond with the model shown by PT PAL - see my post if they are proceed with the program.

I think even Janes has no idea what is going on

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 07:30 PM

Usually, 1+1=2 ah. But not in your case...