WHAT DEMONSTRATION. TELL ME MORE PLEASE...

WHAT IS THIS PDF?I DONT WANT TO OPEN THIS NOT TRUSTABLE..

ok lah ..
but what is the demonstration???

1 contract in Johor, 1 contract in Thailand.

Good afternoon Rani,

I've been reading these threads on APC for a while now after my sister became a victim. So I just thought I'd respectfully question your statement.. why do you say, "the only way to get your money is in court"?

I was a paralegal in a local firm for many years and I simply cannot agree with you. Well yes, if the firm in question was legitimate from the start and had built up assets along the way. But as everyone involved has now learned to their disappointment, APC was fraudulent from the beginning. Set up with stolen money from a landbank fraud in the UK. Ask any respecting lawyer that is experienced in litigation or torte law the following question... "do fraudulent companies acquire assets and / or leave capital in the company for the victims to sue to get it back at the end."? The answer is ALWAYS NO.

Put simply... If fraudsters are smart enough to set up a global operation so elaborate to fool so many people, you think they are unintelligent enough to leave the stolen money as assets in the business? Again the answer is NO.

So I advise a little caution building up everyone's hopes with civil legal action in court. What will almost certainly happen...
1. An award in the favor of complainants maybe. lets assume so. What's next then...
2. The company's official paperwork ie statements of accounts, balance sheets, P&L's will all show a loss.
3. The court will then turn to the directors to repay a sum equivalent to the start up capital.
4. The directors will declare bankruptcy.
5. As the company's debts are limited to its corporate asset, the only person that makes any money in these cases are the lawyers.

If Hakem Arabi & Assoc or HAA as they are known in the business are so confident then ask them to switch to Contingent Law and offer no billing if they do not get the cash and ... ONLY TAKE A PERCENTAGE OF THE CASH RECEIVED. That's more fair ..take a portion less than the sum the victims lost and directly tied to the amount the victim receives. When they refuse then ask yourself why?

As far as the law firm's concerned, you paid them to get a ruling. Once they do, it's down to a liquidator, SOMEONE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE PAID to sell the non-existing assets to get money back. ALSO NOTE THAT LIQUIDATORS HAVE FIRST RIGHT TO CHARGE THEIR FEES FROM THE RECOVERED MONIES IF THERE EVER IS ANY. THEY HAVE, 'THE RIGHT OF FIRST CHARGE'. In other words, their bill comes before you getting any thing at all. If there's not enough left to pay the victims well that's just tough.

END RESULT: The lawyer gets paid by victims, the liquidator gets paid by victims when there's little to no assets recovered. And the victims.. what do they get... the chance to spend forever on a creditors list. And in many times, the legal bill to get that far exceeds any amount ever recovered. In fact if you ask the lawyers.., you can guarantee the law firm hasn't investigated at all what the company's worth is. Just happy to bill you to pursue to judgement.

And as I told my sister... paying up front and getting no money back is EXACTLY what you did with APC. Hiring a lawyer to attack a fraudulent company in civil court is doing exactly the same with more hard earned money.

Something for the smart that like a balanced viewpoint should consider.

Good afternoon Madam Rani,

I thought I'd reply to the brief message you left for me. And thank you for doing so. Please excuse my late reply, I have been out stationed.

Lets address your point...

There are numerous litigations companies, legal organizations and law firms that operate Contingent Law in cases that cross jurisdictions. Multiple jurisdictions in fact. And that is because whether a case is in one country or more than one country has completely no bearing on if a law firm is prepared to offer a contingent fee (no win no fee) basis of payment. My old law firm teamed up on many occasions with a specialist in cross boarder contingent law, Legal Alliance Asia. Here in this thread, people are using an even larger firm called Asia Claim in exactly this APC case on a no win no fee basis. Which clearly demonstrates your point is invalid. It can happen, does happen and will continue to.

In any case, APC was not global. That was a farce. APC had operations only in Malaysia and Singapore.

The bottom line for a law firm is the same as any business. How much money is in it for the firm? If the firm is confident there is money to be claimed and they can agree a percentage of that money that far exceeds the fee they would charge up front, they will not wait to be asked, they will offer a contingent fee. Its more money. Its business common sense.

If a law firm is not confident there is money to be had, they will not. There could be various reasons for this...

1) they are not confident of getting a favorable ruling.
2) as in this case, the presumption that a company is smart enough to defraud such a large sum, but foolish enough to invest in assets or leave as liquid cash in a company bank is non sensible.
You are more than within your rights to hope that. But I promise you Rani, lawyers are much more pragmatic with there business calculations.
3) fee generation law. A slang term used by lawyers whom are not confident they can achieve the outcome their clients are hoping for but will take the case because they are being paid to. Win or loose.

Mentioning no law firms here but if there are two hundred people in a group (for example) paying 1000 Ringgit per year to the lawyer (for example). Then the law firm achieves billing capability of 200 x 1000 = 200,000 RM per year for a couple of appearances by one lawyer, some small disbursements fees and the secretaries time to email the group here and there.

There is one case against APC in Singapore for five years. Still no money has been paid to the complainants. If my example I give above which is an APC litigation group known to me, the lawyer will collect ONE MILLION RINGGIT FOR NOT GETTING THEIR CLEINTS A SINGLE RINGGIT.

WHAT GREAT WORK FOR THE FIRM..NOT SO GREAT FOR THE VICTIMS.

And why will it almost certainly work out that way if you go via the standard court procedure? Because as mentioned, the lawyers job is ONLY to get the ruling. He is not a debt recovery agent.
The liquidators have limited powers of inspection. Once the monies have been misappropriated from the business like a directors loan for example, or a false joint venture agreement (which is a common way to drain money). The liquidator has the power to search and cease from the suspicious parties only. Once the monies hit the third party accounts that are not proven people of interest in a fraudulent case, their powers of inspection cease. I know that. You think your lawyers don't? You think the APC masterminds don't? Of course they do.

People that have been fraudulently stolen from should consider a specialist in the field of dealing with white collar criminals. Not general law firms that may have done a divorce or a property conveyance just before. Then pay them only to conduct a shallow investigation to determine if they would offer NO WIN NO FEE BILLING. Let their decision to offer the contingent billing scheme be the real indication of their confidence.

As mentioned, we used Legal Alliance Asia. Others here use Asia Claim. There are others.

Finally, this is not meant to rain on anyone's parade. But just to keep matters and expectations real. And also of course to use my many years of experience to help hard working people that may have lost their life savings to these kinds of companies.

You are welcome Wai Ping. I am glad to have been a small help. However, I must bear honest testimony to the fact that personally I have never had any experience in dealing with Assia Claim or their European counterpart. Having said that, their reputation is second to none in their industry. May I wish you the best of luck.

This post has been edited by milla lim: Mar 22 2024, 05:18 PM

Good afternoon SC Khoong, I saw your request for clarification so I thought I might offer my experience if I may? My law firm uses fraud investigators as I have mentioned here before. While I have not contracted Asia Claim LLC personally but a larger entity of the same ilk named Legal Alliance Asia, I can confirm they are a legitimate business whom have some notable recorded successes. We can also note there are substantial entries here confirming successful outcomes. Personally I do not own an alleged investment with this plantation company but my sister does. She has registered with Asia Claim and has in her opinion has been served well to date with something approximating twenty updates since she contracted Asia Claim to represent her.

From what I understand from my sister there are senior staff involved in the investigation on hand and available to answer investor questions but please do not quote me on that as it is purely hearsay but from my sister it is at least a reliable source of information. I have checked for her and Asia Claim is officially registered and licensed with ACRA (our SSM) in the Republic of Singapore as well as with Companies House in the UNITED KINGDOM WHERE THIER FILLINGS SHOW A FULLY FLEDGED CLAIM LISENCE. Additionally to answer your concern, Fraud Investigators are not known to commit crime's against their clients. That's task of sales companies what we have addressed many times over the years in the Sessions, State and High Courts of Kuala Lumpur.

Good afternoon Mr Mattock sir,

Checking back in here to help a friend. I saw your comment. Who can blame any person loosing money with APC to feel like you do.

However, for the sake of not misinforming the public we should replace emotion with fact.

Private equity is an established and regulated part of the financial sector. High net worth investors will target 40% of their income as PE-Returns. Globally, 18,000 Private Equity firms hold on profit for their clients at any one time funds equivalent to half the GDP of Europe. Most of my clients invest in overseas PE companies. Higher security. Then again most smart Malaysians put their money overseas now days. Especially with this new governments stealth tax obsession.

But experienced investors don’t buy hype from sales companies. No different to the stock market. Successful investors understand they are buying businesses, like a partnership. I wonder how many people that bought APC checked who was running the business, how much capital the company started with, was it licensed, was the money paid into trust? If it wasn’t, should it have been? Does the company have the go-market strategy? Etc etc.. There are financial metrics forming the pillars of Private Equity performance. My sister didn’t check these metrics, did you Mattock? Clearly not I would humbly assume otherwise you would not have made your purchase.

So yes, buy hype from direct sales companies you’ll loose maybe to the degree you quote. Buy value investments from Private Equity companies and you won’t. It’s really no more complicated than that. Sales companies sell products for profit. That profit comes from you the buyer. Private Equity makes money on money. Not the same. Just like Einstein… he said, “the most obvious answer is usually the right one” and he was a petty smart man. Hope that helps?