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 Bogleheads Local Chapter [Malaysia Edisi]

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Medufsaid
post Jun 13 2022, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Jun 13 2022, 02:24 PM)
i'm currently 'stuck' in Rakuten
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being stuck in Rakuten could end up a blessing. at anytime some RSP plan killer might set up shop locally

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Jun 13 2022, 02:44 PM
sgh
post Jun 13 2022, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 13 2022, 01:17 PM)
Hello everyone,
I find the conversation about FSM RSP ETF fascinating as it'll be good to automate my investments.

However, I'm super confused about the fee structure due to the discussion.

As far as I understand, let's say your RSP is RM2000 a month. The transaction fee should then be 0.08% of the RSP or min US1. So in this case, it'll be US$1 - RM4.50 which, for local brokers, is considered quite affordable compared to Rakuten's RM8 per trade or MIDF's freaking RM36 per trade. This is, of course, for those who prefer local brokers like me. (I have been told to death that IBKR is cheaper, I totally get it lol)

Am I correct on the math here here or off base?
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You are not wrong. The other reader is most likely using IBKR as reference (which is 35 cents fee per trade) to compare and that is why it is expensive. If you compare strictly with only local broker then it is cheaper of cuz. The context of the discussion is always important.

In fact for me as Sporean, IBKR is too expensive as I found Webull Spore 0 fees so I with Webull. Reason I got 18-20 ETF I want to DCA imagine 35 cents multiply by 20 each time? Also IBKR convert to USD each time charge me USD 2. In case someone ask me why so many ETF is becuz I prefer to invest in country specific ETF e.g iShares MSCI Australia EWA, iShares China A Shares CNYA, iShares MSCI Indonesia EIDO, iShares Latin America 40 ILF, iShares MSCI South Korea EWY, iShares MSCI Taiwan EWT, iShares MSCI Thailand THD etc. Those so called single world centric ETF if you take a look is still a lot with US stocks in them so if US market fall like now those world centric ETF are not spared either.
RayleighH
post Jun 13 2022, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 13 2022, 01:17 PM)
Hello everyone,
I find the conversation about FSM RSP ETF fascinating as it'll be good to automate my investments.

However, I'm super confused about the fee structure due to the discussion.

As far as I understand, let's say your RSP is RM2000 a month. The transaction fee should then be 0.08% of the RSP or min US1. So in this case, it'll be US$1 - RM4.50 which, for local brokers, is considered quite affordable compared to Rakuten's RM8 per trade or MIDF's freaking RM36 per trade. This is, of course, for those who prefer local brokers like me. (I have been told to death that IBKR is cheaper, I totally get it lol)

Am I correct on the math here here or off base?
*
As others have mentioned, your calculation is correct. FSM RSP ETF is relatively more expensive than IBKR for Malaysian. However one downside with FSM ETF is that in the event that you would like to inject or withdraw any amount outside of the RSP (i.e buy the dip or sudden loss of confidence), the fees jumps all the way to 0.08% or minimum USD8.80. So be aware.

(Do correct me if I got this wrong.)

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 13 2022, 06:15 PM
jutamind
post Jun 13 2022, 09:01 PM

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Why not use FSM for RSP and Rakuten for ad hoc purchase? Win win in terms of cost but need to maintain 2 different trading accounts

QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 13 2022, 06:01 PM)
As others have mentioned, your calculation is correct. FSM RSP ETF is relatively more expensive than IBKR for Malaysian. However one downside with FSM ETF is that in the event that you would like to inject or withdraw any amount outside of the RSP (i.e buy the dip or sudden loss of confidence), the fees jumps all the way to 0.08% or minimum USD8.80. So be aware.

(Do correct me if I got this wrong.)
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RayleighH
post Jun 13 2022, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 13 2022, 09:01 PM)
Why not use FSM for RSP and Rakuten for ad hoc purchase? Win win in terms of cost but need to maintain 2 different trading accounts
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That is an option. Personally, I would prefer to be at as few different platforms as possible.
SUSTOS
post Jun 14 2022, 12:25 AM

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FT article

ETF Hub: Passive Investing

Passive investing has increased US stock volatility, study finds
Analysis raises fresh questions over widespread adoption of index-based investing

by Steve Johnson (YESTERDAY)

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


A very recent paper, you guys can read it here: https://sites.insead.edu/facultyresearch/re...e.cfm?fid=68974 (Link provided by FT.)
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 14 2022, 07:14 AM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 13 2022, 09:01 PM)
Why not use FSM for RSP and Rakuten for ad hoc purchase? Win win in terms of cost but need to maintain 2 different trading accounts
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Was just thinking this. I prefer to stay in one broker if possible but unfortunately I kept opening with one that ended up not being the preferred one. So I now have accounts at Malacca Securities, Rakuten Trade, MIDF and next, FSM one? lol
RayleighH
post Jun 14 2022, 08:46 AM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 07:14 AM)
Was just thinking this. I prefer to stay in one broker if possible but unfortunately I kept opening with one that ended up not being the preferred one. So I now have accounts at Malacca Securities, Rakuten Trade, MIDF and next, FSM one? lol
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Genuine question. May I know the reason that you would prefer local brokerage over firms like IBKR despite their competitive fees and convenience (all in one)?

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 14 2022, 08:47 AM
jutamind
post Jun 14 2022, 10:19 AM

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For me, estate planning issue. This is especially true if you have fairly large investment sum (at least 6 figures and above). My partner is not competent in financial stuffs. Even with userid and password given to the partner, my partner wont probably know the intricacies on dealing with IBKR and foreign fund transfer. Should i go belly up one day, my partner just bring the LA letter to these local financial firms to claim for my estate.

I suppose transaction cost will probably not coming down to IBKR cost level anytime in the future given the protective nature of our financial market. Otherwise, all local brokers will go broke. So I make do with whatever local options i have despite the inconvenience of maintaining multiple platforms.

QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 14 2022, 08:46 AM)
Genuine question. May I know the reason that you would prefer local brokerage over firms like IBKR despite their competitive fees and convenience (all in one)?
*
This post has been edited by jutamind: Jun 14 2022, 01:05 PM
jutamind
post Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM

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For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.

QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 07:14 AM)
Was just thinking this. I prefer to stay in one broker if possible but unfortunately I kept opening with one that ended up not being the preferred one. So I now have accounts at Malacca Securities, Rakuten Trade, MIDF and next, FSM one? lol
*
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 14 2022, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM)
For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.
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That's good to know! I still have so much to learn about buying shares - I didn't know we can transfer wink.gif
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 14 2022, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 14 2022, 08:46 AM)
Genuine question. May I know the reason that you would prefer local brokerage over firms like IBKR despite their competitive fees and convenience (all in one)?
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For me the reason is very personal. I'm someone that can get overwhelmed quite easily when it comes to financial matters. I need to make investing as brain dead simple as possible. I've read up on how to transfer funds to IBKR and I'm like, gawd, so complicating. This will cause friction for me, which means I'll hesitate to invest and slow down my investing too.

Also, the idea of having most of my wealth in an overseas brokerage where I have no easy access to their offices in case shit hits the fan makes me nervous. And the thought of what I need to do to get that money back in case anything happens is also overwhelming. I get that the likelihood of that happening is very slim, but I rather play it safe.

Maybe I'll put a portion of my income in IBKR one day, but for now I'll use local brokers.
Cubalagi
post Jun 14 2022, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM)
For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.
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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 11:20 AM)
That's good to know! I still have so much to learn about buying shares - I didn't know we can transfer wink.gif
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For Bursa shares, it's RM10 per counter regardless of amount.

I have also transferred foreign shares before among local brokers, but I can't recall the fees how much.


RayleighH
post Jun 14 2022, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 11:24 AM)
For me the reason is very personal. I'm someone that can get overwhelmed quite easily when it comes to financial matters. I need to make investing as brain dead simple as possible. I've read up on how to transfer funds to IBKR and I'm like, gawd, so complicating. This will cause friction for me, which means I'll hesitate to invest and slow down my investing too.

Also, the idea of having most of my wealth in an overseas brokerage where I have no easy access to their offices in case shit hits the fan makes me nervous. And the thought of what I need to do to get that money back in case anything happens is also overwhelming. I get that the likelihood of that happening is very slim, but I rather play it safe.

Maybe I'll put a portion of my income in IBKR one day, but for now I'll use local brokers.
*
Just so you know, transferring into USD is the only one which is relatively more complicated, where you are advised to open a bank account in Singapore. Transferring into other European currencies (EURO or GBP) is rather straight forward. No need to go through Singapore bank account. Just direct from your bank account to IBKR using Wise/Instarem to convert.

In fact, some mentioned that they were able to transfer into USD directly from their local bank through Wise. Maybe this is a new development. Lon3Rang3r00

For withdrawal, some guides mention that you can withdraw directly from ibkr to your local banks. However, I've not gotten into the details of the fees and if it's applicable to all banks in Malaysia. Perhaps there is a catch where the forex rate will not be as good as Wise but I'll have to do more research.

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 15 2022, 12:44 AM
bcombat
post Jun 14 2022, 08:41 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM)
For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.
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Just use Bursa Anywhere to transfer the local share from one security firm to the other. Just did it few months back from CIMB iTrade to M- plus.
AthrunIJ
post Jun 14 2022, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 14 2022, 05:14 PM)
Just so you know, transferring into USD is the only one which is relatively more complicated, where you are advised to open a bank account in Singapore. Transferring into other European currencies (EURO or GBP) is rather straight forward. No need to go through Singapore bank account. Just direct from your bank account to IBKR using Wise/Instarem to convert.

In fact, some mentioned that they were able to transfer into USD directly from their local bank through Wise. Maybe this is a new development. [email=Lon3Rang3r00]Lon3Rang3r00[/email]

For withdrawal, some guides mention that you can withdraw directly from ibkr to your local banks. However, I've not gotten into the details of the fees and if it's applicable to all banks in Malaysia. Perhaps there is a catch where the forex rate will not be as good as Wise but I'll have to do more research.
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Yep, from local bank direct to ibkr through wise is possible. Been doing that since I had wise and ibkr.

It is called direct ach. Takes a day to complete the transfer but which is fine for me since it is safe so far.
nguminhuang P
post Jun 16 2022, 05:09 PM

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An update for my RSP FSM one ETF.
I make a RM 400 monthly contribution, which translate to USD 90.03 ( 1USD = 4.44 MYR).
The charge is USD 1.23.

Unfortunately, i cannot top up , and i cannot choose the date to purchase as well.
sgh
post Jun 16 2022, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 16 2022, 05:09 PM)
An update for my RSP FSM one ETF.
I make a RM 400 monthly contribution, which translate to USD 90.03 ( 1USD = 4.44 MYR).
The charge is USD 1.23.

Unfortunately, i cannot top up , and i cannot choose the date to purchase as well.
*
Thanks for sharing so the minimum USD 1 is applied. The USD 0.23 stamp duty is additional info. FSM RSP program disadvantage is cannot choose the date to purchase and sell. As for topup I think you can go online and change but it will take effect in the next RSP buy I think.
RayleighH
post Jun 16 2022, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 16 2022, 05:09 PM)
user posted image

An update for my RSP FSM one ETF.
I make a RM 400 monthly contribution, which translate to USD 90.03 ( 1USD = 4.44 MYR).
The charge is USD 1.23.

Unfortunately, i cannot top up , and i cannot choose the date to purchase as well.
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USD 1.23 fees = 1.37% "sales charge". Comparable to other FSM unit trusts. At least you are enjoying much much lesser management fees for ETFs compared to Unit Trusts.
bogletails
post Jun 16 2022, 07:44 PM

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Fsmone RSP is actually very cheap with 1usd fee only. Ibkr real cost is actually high because got a lot of minimum amount. (For example, convert money to sgd cost maybe Rm5-15) (convert SGD to USD cost 2usd minimum ), then broker fee 0.35usd. this is very expensive way if you want to DCA monthly. Or your dca amount is small.

If use ACH wise direct myr to USD also cost quite a lot fee in wise.

Fsmone is cheap because it use fixed percentage for the currency conversion part. And 1++ USD fee for broker only.

I don't know why Rayleigh keep saying rsp is expensive.. I have done the cost calculation for everything. If you DCA monthly. RSP is the cheapest way.

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