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 any Govt dept to deal with insurance agent?

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TSParadigmata
post Oct 22 2021, 10:46 PM, updated 3y ago

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The insurance industry in Malaysia is pretty dark and cynical due to commission that pay agent to sign up for policy and pushing for sales instead of serving the ignorance general public.

The insurance in Malaysia is as bad as MLM.
So many wrongs

Like conning existing customers to purchase new policies every few years for commissions purposes

Pushing investments linked products that is utmost useless, telling lies

After all, any effective way to report if came across such insurance agent?
Telling lies, misleading, missing in action etc?

I heard can report to bank negara, but how is it?

What is the best alternative if unfortunately signed up for bad agent?

If caught agent is telling lies, would the insurance company be responsible?
Or it is considered civil case? Since policy is signed?






MUM
post Oct 22 2021, 10:53 PM

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Complaint on Banking and Insurance Institution
https://www.malaysia.gov.my/portal/content/30857

Customers Complaint Unit
complaint procedures
https://www.liam.org.my/customer_zone/?c=13&ct=2

Insurance Complaints & Mediation
https://piam.org.my/complaints-mediation/

INSURANCE & TAKAFUL COMPLAINT/DISPUTE FORM
https://www.ofs.org.my/file/files/OFS%20Ins...e%20Form%20.pdf

How to Lodge a Dispute
https://www.ofs.org.my/en/how_to_lodge_a_dispute
TSParadigmata
post Oct 22 2021, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Oct 22 2021, 10:53 PM)
Complaint on Banking and Insurance Institution
[
is there any full case study to read?

I meant how these agencies work?

How to submit complaint? What kind of complaints are valid?

Why they refuse to accept if lawyer is hired? What's the caveat?

MUM
post Oct 22 2021, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 22 2021, 11:02 PM)
is there any full case study to read?

I meant how these agencies work?

How to submit complaint? What kind of complaints are valid?

Why they refuse to accept if lawyer is hired? What's the caveat?
*
do you have documented proof of that said crime/offence?
or it is just an intangible things like dissatisfaction of service or knowledge or etc?
are you given the policy to read and are you not given the 15 days of free-look period,?
have you try telling it to the company of that insurance's agent?

On this, "Why they refuse to accept if lawyer is hired? What's the caveat?"...
My guess is once you got lawyer involved, their legal department, will instruct them (front office) to cease responding to any request of information or things related to that case but will just response by refering any requestor to directly refer to their legal department instead.

This post has been edited by MUM: Oct 23 2021, 07:20 AM
JIUHWEI
post Oct 23 2021, 12:01 AM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 22 2021, 10:46 PM)
The insurance industry in Malaysia is pretty dark and cynical due to commission that pay agent to sign up for policy and pushing for sales instead of serving the ignorance general public.

The insurance in Malaysia is as bad as MLM.
So many wrongs

Like conning existing customers to purchase new policies every few years for commissions purposes

Pushing investments linked products that is utmost useless, telling lies

After all, any effective way to report if came across such insurance agent?
Telling lies, misleading, missing in action etc?

I heard can report to bank negara, but how is it?

What is the best alternative if unfortunately signed up for bad agent?

If caught agent is telling lies, would the insurance company be responsible?
Or it is considered civil case? Since policy is signed?
*
The only way you can nail an insurance agent is to show evidence that the final product that you have bought is different from what was presented.

There are cases in the past where so called "high-flying" insurance agents end up in jail.

Cut to your current predicament, there is a thing called a "Basic Score Card" for Life Planners today. Much like a KPI that includes professional and ethical conduct and not just buta2 sales only.
On top of that, there is also a "3-strikes" rule of thumb too. Basically kena valid complaints 3 times, you're out. License maybe gantung also.

Depending on what your situation with your agent is, first step is definitely to collect paperwork.
Get your records ready and file a complaint with the company first.
Chances are, the company also be like "diu, bugger staining our brand. Screw him/her!" And will help you take action too.

From there, I think it's up to you how far you wanna take it.
roarus
post Oct 23 2021, 11:35 AM

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very hard, LIAM cares jackshit don't even reply email.

unless you have some recording of the sales presentation, agent can show your policy purchase signature as proof you understood things in the document even though sales presentation verbally can be different.
TSParadigmata
post Oct 25 2021, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Oct 23 2021, 12:01 AM)
The only way you can nail an insurance agent is to show evidence that the final product that you have bought is different from what was presented.

There are cases in the past where so called "high-flying" insurance agents end up in jail.

Cut to your current predicament, there is a thing called a "Basic Score Card" for Life Planners today. Much like a KPI that includes professional and ethical conduct and not just buta2 sales only.
On top of that, there is also a "3-strikes" rule of thumb too. Basically kena valid complaints 3 times, you're out. License maybe gantung also.

Depending on what your situation with your agent is, first step is definitely to collect paperwork.
Get your records ready and file a complaint with the company first.
Chances are, the company also be like "diu, bugger staining our brand. Screw him/her!" And will help you take action too.

From there, I think it's up to you how far you wanna take it.
*
Typically what is the tactic the agent will pull to escaping the unsubscribe the policy?

I think my agent is led by the upline how to fool me.

I need to find a way to record my whatsapp call.
I made a firm decision to discontinue the policy, stop payment but the agent is not willing to end.

I think my agent is finding ways and make more lies to pursue my continue the policy.

I didn't mean to harm my agent reputation, on the other hand, I feel like one big idiot for trusting the agent blindly and loss money for trusting wrong people.

QUOTE(roarus @ Oct 23 2021, 11:35 AM)
very hard, LIAM cares jackshit don't even reply email.

unless you have some recording of the sales presentation, agent can show your policy purchase signature as proof you understood things in the document even though sales presentation verbally can be different.
*
Ya, too bad didn't record, and blindly sign up based on trust, later found out all verbal were bull shit after reading the policy in detail.
MUM
post Oct 25 2021, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 25 2021, 10:53 AM)
.....
I made a firm decision to discontinue the policy, stop payment but the agent is not willing to end.

I think my agent is finding ways and make more lies to pursue my continue the policy. 
........
*
👍👍 That you had made a firm decision.
Just contact the office directly.... I am sure you can cancel that without going through the agent.
But the agent will know abt it n may decide to ask you to not cancel it.

This post has been edited by MUM: Oct 25 2021, 11:03 AM
Holocene
post Oct 25 2021, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 25 2021, 10:53 AM)
Typically what is the tactic the agent will pull to escaping the unsubscribe the policy?

I think my agent is led by the upline how to fool me.

I need to find a way to record my whatsapp call.
I made a firm decision to discontinue the policy, stop payment but the agent is not willing to end.

I think my agent is finding ways and make more lies to pursue my continue the policy. 

I didn't mean to harm my agent reputation, on the other hand, I feel like one big idiot for trusting the agent blindly and loss money for trusting wrong people.
Ya, too bad didn't record, and blindly sign up based on trust, later found out all verbal were bull shit after reading the policy in detail.
*
If you've determined that the policy is no longer relevant or beneficial for your then it is your right to terminate the policy.

Walk in to a branch, they will get you to sign a surrender form with the relevant TnC.

What you've experienced isn't uncommon so don't feel too bad about it. At least you can now move forward in your financial journey with a clearer mind and also with more due diligence.

Best,
Jiansheng
JIUHWEI
post Oct 25 2021, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 25 2021, 10:53 AM)
Typically what is the tactic the agent will pull to escaping the unsubscribe the policy?

I think my agent is led by the upline how to fool me.

I need to find a way to record my whatsapp call.
I made a firm decision to discontinue the policy, stop payment but the agent is not willing to end.

I think my agent is finding ways and make more lies to pursue my continue the policy. 

I didn't mean to harm my agent reputation, on the other hand, I feel like one big idiot for trusting the agent blindly and loss money for trusting wrong people.
Ya, too bad didn't record, and blindly sign up based on trust, later found out all verbal were bull shit after reading the policy in detail.
*
There is no tactic.

However, you can sit the agent down and just keep asking questions.
The good thing about truth is that there is always only 1 truth.
So if you suspect anybody is leading you on with something, just keep asking questions. It's quite difficult to remember so many stories.


Btw, you mind providing a bit of context on the issue you're facing?
TSParadigmata
post Oct 26 2021, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Oct 25 2021, 12:25 PM)
There is no tactic.

However, you can sit the agent down and just keep asking questions.
The good thing about truth is that there is always only 1 truth.
So if you suspect anybody is leading you on with something, just keep asking questions. It's quite difficult to remember so many stories.
Btw, you mind providing a bit of context on the issue you're facing?
*
No point asking more questions. The agent was telling lies and kept on telling after I request to surrender the policy.

The lesson I learned is don't buy anything that people try to sell.

The context is I trusted liar.

Was told small commission only involve, could withdraw money if wishes, quote the max best optimistic fake figure of ROI instead of the realistic ones, sign on electronic form, never read properly, on my own.

all based on verbal interpretation from agent, Paid for whole year. Didn't bother to ask for policy copy.

After that, kept receiving ads from the insurance company in email. Login to the portal, study the policy, found out it is one of the biggest stupidities I have signed up for.

the first 6 years is basically paying for the insurance company profit and agent commission, if decided to surrender early. Even never surrender, after 20 years, it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI

I think you get the point of what I try to say now.

Factor in realistic return, interest, lock up period, early surrender penalty , inflation.. It's just shit.

This type of policy only neutral enough to buy if the buyer is on final stage cancer or left less than 6 years lifespan and let the agent earn free commission after pass away.



yuuko_san
post Oct 27 2021, 12:33 AM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 26 2021, 12:13 PM)
No point asking more questions. The agent was telling lies and kept on telling after I request to surrender the policy.

The lesson I learned is don't buy anything that people try to sell.

The context is I trusted liar.

Was told small commission only involve, could withdraw money if wishes, quote the max best optimistic fake figure of ROI instead of the realistic ones, sign on electronic form, never read properly, on my own.

all based on verbal interpretation from agent, Paid for whole year. Didn't bother to ask for policy copy.

After that, kept receiving ads from the insurance company in email. Login to the portal, study the policy, found out it is one of the biggest stupidities I have signed up for.

the first 6 years is basically paying for the insurance company profit and agent commission, if decided to surrender early. Even never surrender, after 20 years, it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI

I think you get the point of what I try to say now.

Factor in realistic return, interest, lock up period, early surrender penalty , inflation.. It's just shit.

This type of policy only neutral enough to buy if the buyer is on final stage cancer or left less than 6 years lifespan and let the agent earn free commission after pass away.
*
I work with mnc insurance intermediary company. We do not earn comm but monthly salary as normal office worker. Our exam is similar but not the same as agent, and our co. Still regulated by bank negara. Generally, we do not deal with individual policy and usually left it to agents as individual do required personnalized service. We are also not bound to any insurance company.
In your case, you`ve said that the agent has lead you to believe the product is otherwise, why go through him to surrender ? Go to the insurance company office then directly surrender. Case closed. See your policy clause for surrendering the policy. MAYBE got refund table or refund on prorate ? The longer you wait, the lesser the refund would be or maybe no refund at all.

This post has been edited by yuuko_san: Oct 27 2021, 12:33 AM
SUSyklooi
post Oct 27 2021, 11:15 AM

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on that
"the first 6 years is basically paying for the insurance company profit and agent commission, if decided to surrender early. Even never surrender, after 20 years, it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI"

the 1st 6 years is NOT basically paying for the insurance company profit and agent commission,...it includes the insurance cost to provides you with insurance coverage for that duration too
thus if you decided to surrender early, that insurance cost paid out by the company for that insurance protection during the first 6 years,...needs to be recovered from you too.
i think i read it somewhere before,...it needs about >14 yrs of to beable to see the accumulated premium paid vs the surrender value breakeven points...without considering the insurance coverage provided by them...
btw, that breakeven points does not factor in inflation too.

on that
"Even never surrender, after 20 years, it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI"

insurance saving plan had been mentioned many times to have an IRR of about 2~3% if held till maturity...
this is same with average saving rate of banks.....isn't it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI? will FD rates be the same too?

not to forget....saving in banks does not provides you with insurance coverage like your insurance plan does during that duration.

well, I think you get the point of what I try to say now.
JIUHWEI
post Oct 27 2021, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 26 2021, 12:13 PM)
No point asking more questions. The agent was telling lies and kept on telling after I request to surrender the policy.

The lesson I learned is don't buy anything that people try to sell.

The context is I trusted liar.

Was told small commission only involve, could withdraw money if wishes, quote the max best optimistic fake figure of ROI instead of the realistic ones, sign on electronic form, never read properly, on my own.

all based on verbal interpretation from agent, Paid for whole year. Didn't bother to ask for policy copy.

After that, kept receiving ads from the insurance company in email. Login to the portal, study the policy, found out it is one of the biggest stupidities I have signed up for.

the first 6 years is basically paying for the insurance company profit and agent commission, if decided to surrender early. Even never surrender, after 20 years, it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI

I think you get the point of what I try to say now.

Factor in realistic return, interest, lock up period, early surrender penalty , inflation.. It's just shit.

This type of policy only neutral enough to buy if the buyer is on final stage cancer or left less than 6 years lifespan and let the agent earn free commission after pass away.
*
So here are some questions for anybody to even attempt to help you:
1. What product was sold to you?
2. What was your intention of buying it? In short, what was your objectives and expectations for the product?
3. When was it bought?

The reason I am asking these is because
1. Up till now nobody knows what are you talking about
2. Up till now, nobody knows your intentions of buying whatever it is that you bought
3. Up till now, nobody knows if the policy was bought last year or 6 years ago, or 15 years ago

How to help you if you just keep shouting about being cheated, cast stones, but refuse to elaborate on the situation?
TSParadigmata
post Oct 29 2021, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Oct 27 2021, 11:15 AM)
on that
"the first 6 years is basically paying for the insurance company profit and agent commission, if decided to surrender early. Even never surrender, after 20 years, it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI"

the 1st 6 years is NOT basically paying for the insurance company profit and agent commission,...it includes the insurance cost to provides you with insurance coverage for that duration too
thus if you decided to surrender early, that insurance cost paid out by the company for that insurance protection during the first 6 years,...needs to be recovered from you too.
i think i read it somewhere before,...it needs about >14 yrs of to beable to see the accumulated premium paid vs the surrender value breakeven points...without considering the insurance coverage provided by them...
btw, that breakeven points does not factor in inflation too.

on that
"Even never surrender, after 20 years, it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI"

insurance saving plan had been mentioned many times to have an IRR of about 2~3% if held till maturity...
this is same with average saving rate of banks.....isn't it is still nett lost after factor in inflation and average ROI? will FD rates be the same too?

not to forget....saving in banks does not provides you with insurance coverage like your insurance plan does during that duration.

well, I think you get the point of what I try to say now.
*

what insurance coverage? The savings plan I have is refund in full for what I have paid if death in accident.

The scenario u have provided is maybe true, if the premium is on the lower side, like few hundred ringgit per month for clients earning below 10k

For people with 5 figures monthly income, paying few k premium per month for such savings plan. The scenario is not same already.

2%of 10k vs 2% of 100k
200 vs 2000

200 per year probably can't get good insurance

2000 per year, there should be good enough for young adult for insurance coverage

The insurance savings plan I have now is basically refund full amount, plus or minus single digit %I forgot already, if death in accident, if died in sickness, it's less iinm

If no death, upon 20 years, nett a 2% roi year

Death, agent earn commission for the first 6 years, insurance company lose, client no lose no win(getting back what have been paid)

Still alive for 20 years, agent earn commission till the 6th year, insurance company earns by holding(reinvest) the cash for 10 years and refund the client for 2% roi per year.
Client factor in inflation, lose


100k put in fd for 2%, can take the 2000 per year to buy any insurance protection plan. The 100k can withdraw without any penalty or sales fees

Or 100k can put epf for min 4% to lock up, and let the compounding works for 20 years.

From my perspective,
I basically can't see the usefulness or advantage of such insurance savings plan.

If I want to bet against my lifespan for next 20 years , won't I purchase life insurance instead?




SUSyklooi
post Oct 29 2021, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Oct 29 2021, 03:53 PM)
what insurance coverage? The savings plan I have is refund in full for what I have paid if death in accident.

The scenario u have provided is maybe true, if the premium is on the lower side, like few hundred ringgit per month for clients earning below 10k

For people with 5 figures monthly income, paying few k premium per month for such savings plan. The scenario is not same already.

2%of 10k vs 2% of 100k
200 vs 2000

200 per year probably can't get good insurance

2000 per year, there should be good enough for young adult for insurance coverage

The insurance savings plan I have now is basically refund full amount, plus or minus single digit %I forgot already, if death in accident, if died in sickness, it's less iinm
(there should be guaranteed bonus pay out and non guaranteed bonus too) Mind telling the FULL name of that insurance plan that you got?

If no death, upon 20 years, nett a 2% roi year (low RETURNs because the extra RETURNS are used to pay for the cost of insurance to cover you)

Death, agent earn commission for the first 6 years, insurance company lose, client no lose no win(getting back what have been paid) PLUS having insurance coverage through out the entire durationMind telling the FULL name of that insurance plan that you got?

Still alive for 20 years, agent earn commission till the 6th year, insurance company earns by holding(reinvest) the cash for 10 years and refund the client for 2% roi per year.
Client factor in inflation, lose
100k put in fd for 2%, can take the 2000 per year to buy any insurance protection plan.  The 100k can withdraw without any penalty or sales fees
(what is you die within 2 years? how much will you get back from FD?...if you put in 100k in insurance plan for 2 yrs,...how much will you be getting back?...2 million??)

Or 100k can put epf for min 4% to lock up, and let the compounding works for 20 years.

From my perspective,
I basically can't see the usefulness or advantage of such insurance savings plan.

If I want to bet against my lifespan for next 20 years , won't I purchase life insurance instead?
*

the IRR is all about %,...does not matter if it is 200 or 2000 pa
the lesser you pay, the lesser your returns will be....but the % is still the same.

your plan only covers accidental death?,....no other benefits like TPD or death by other means like sudden death or death of other than accidents?

on "From my perspective,
I basically can't see the usefulness or advantage of such insurance savings plan.

If I want to bet against my lifespan for next 20 years , won't I purchase life insurance instead?"

that is why insurance is meant for the target group of people that wanted the "just in case"....risk mitigation....
just in case, some thing happens,...how my family gonna go by? how is my housing loan gonna be paid, if i cannot work,...how to support my life?...etc etc...

on this "Or 100k can put epf for min 4% to lock up, and let the compounding works for 20 years."...
you don't start paying your insurance premium with a lumpsum like that from the start...
try imagine you start the saving into EPF with RM1000 pa,....after 6 years your EPF a/c has 6k + all interest earned...that's it...
if you buy insurance you pay 1000 x 6 years....you paid 6k...
if you die accidental death, any time during these 6 years, you get from EPF 6k+ interest . But how much will you get from the insurance? 50k or 100k or ??

This post has been edited by yklooi: Oct 29 2021, 04:25 PM
lifebalance
post Oct 29 2021, 05:03 PM

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First time I read insurance vs investment when the purpose of insurance is for taking care of risk of a financial loss that an investment would never be able to cover in the short span of time.

Please don't mix investment returns with insurance, it's comparing apple and orange.

 

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