Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages < 1 2 3 4 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 discussion about the "myvi 2022" price, wil perodua more expansive than proton?

views
     
JZenith
post Oct 21 2021, 06:55 PM

Look at my stars. owai
****
Junior Member
697 posts

Joined: Aug 2018
From: Shemalelism



QUOTE(jeffchuaa @ Oct 21 2021, 06:37 PM)
He wants me to book first, as he mention there is no guaranty for me to get the current one as their queue is still from April sale until now, because of MCO the production line is affected, but there is a Perodua rented an outdoor warehouse near my area, and I can still see that there are still cars in the warehouse, so I'm not sure about this " production affected" thing. And he try to persuade me to book now because, if the current version can't be completed on time, the current version 2021 queue will all switch to the 2022 version, so if I book next year the queue will be longer. more like luck thing.
He works as a salesperson in Perodua, and he said that they are currently undergoing training for the new 2022 Myvi, so I am not sure this info is trustable, dealing with a friend is something always in the grey zone, if don't trust them then friendship affected, if trust then Kena cheat also affected, anything related to money is always a bad thing for a relationship.

also it's more likely that the D-CVT will be implemented, not sure about the 1L turbo engine though ,since the brand new Alza is using D-CVT according to wapcar (car autonews). I also came across a writing in carlist, the author include the price for the myvi 2022 as RM53k, but I don't think that is biased.

sorry, since I'm still under probation, i cant post those links

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
CVT or not, it depends on you, majority of them says CVT is bad but thats what they SAY, not experience.
except for proton CVT old model, thats truly bad (iris,persona,saga).
there's a fact that you shouldn't hard pedal CVT as it runs with a belt and it will damage the gearbox overtime, but same goes with 4AT, they will break too but just not as fast as CVT.

also CVT service&maintenance is slightly complex and expensive than traditional 4AT but i dont think so it affects anything.

mayb you can testdrive ativa's CVT and compare to myvi on traffic jam,you'll notice the difference, some is ok with CVT and some doesnt.

by the way do you have a slight picture of myvi 2022? if it facelift like axia crossover or the new iris, personally im taking the 2021.

This post has been edited by JZenith: Oct 21 2021, 06:55 PM
zero5177
post Oct 21 2021, 07:12 PM

Sixth Sense Unlocked
******
Senior Member
1,357 posts

Joined: May 2010
From: In your liver
People who praises the 4AT like its the ultimate creation are the people who can't accept newer technologies.

4AT never drives better than CVT, Proton's CVT jerks are just on low speed stop and go traffic, unless you are telling me your drive involve only speed of 0-20km/h 90% times then you might feel shit about it, but how bad is it? I would say still Miles better than when u sitting on someone inexperience driving MT car.

Plus the recent model even reviewers/ex Proton owner says the Jerk is almost not there even they attempted,
for a normal driver definitely can't tell anymore.

For car technology of course if you can wait, more tech will be added in the future with more new models. Problem is can you wait?
dares
post Oct 21 2021, 08:41 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
827 posts

Joined: Jul 2011
QUOTE(jeffchuaa @ Oct 21 2021, 06:37 PM)
He wants me to book first, as he mention there is no guaranty for me to get the current one as their queue is still from April sale until now, because of MCO the production line is affected, but there is a Perodua rented an outdoor warehouse near my area, and I can still see that there are still cars in the warehouse, so I'm not sure about this " production affected" thing. And he try to persuade me to book now because, if the current version can't be completed on time, the current version 2021 queue will all switch to the 2022 version, so if I book next year the queue will be longer. more like luck thing.

*
No announcement from Perodua, I don't think he can even accept booking for the new Myvi.

This reminds me of those unscrupulous SAs who took X50 bookings long before it was launched, until Proton came out and say no they are not allowed to take booking for the car.
constant_weight
post Oct 21 2021, 09:11 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
856 posts

Joined: Jun 2017
QUOTE(cyapd @ Oct 21 2021, 03:00 PM)
I always wonder if those that shiat on cvt so much ever driven 1, or rather what’s the cars they were driving. 4AT, 6AT, DSG/DCT, MT all will have their own pros and cons, that’s all.
*
Old i-DSI City CVT is the worst example. I guess the bad reputation started that time. Rubber band effect is really strong, even lift of throttle car will get the elastic jolt.
I think today no matter how bad is the CVT, still by far 100x better than the CVT from i-DSI generation.

Before the Covid-19, I had a lot of business travel. So I tried different rental cars to experience them.

Nissan Altima 2.5s with 180hp+, the CVT is doing really great. No reason to take it over 4AT Camry or even 6AT Camry.
I would anytime take Kia Optima or Mazda 6 over Altima, then Altima over Camry/Sonata. They simply drive so much better overall, not specific to transmission.

Somehow Optima and Sonata at US are tuned very differently even from same model year, given both from Hyundai Motor Group. Optima get stiffer suspension, steering pointing really direct, whereas Sonata tuned similar to Camry. Haven't try TNGA Camry because Toyota doesn't support Android Auto/Apple Carplay that time, it is pain in the ass to navigate at places I'm not familiar.

Hyundai DCT, BMW FWD with DCT, I would take them over CVT. Normal person would not perceive the shifting, those are tuned for smooth comfort, very different from DSG. No jerk at all even at 5km/h slow traffic. Hyundai DCT would even shift to 2nd gear during low speed traffic jam crawl, so confirm clutch fully engage, not half open.

My current car has Aisin 8AT with 240nm 43hp crank integrated electric motor, with Polestar software tune. Shifting is milky smooth as the motor will fill in the torque during shifting power gap. I think even with this 8AT + electric motor combo, the DCT that are tuned for smoothness is just as seamless. Passenger would not perceive the different, I really don't know which one has the edge for passenger daily comfort.
Of course when floor the throttle, DCT is noticeable more direct and shift so much faster.

On regular drive, Mazda 6AT shift faster than the Polestar tuned Aisin 8AT. When pushed, I can't tell the speed different on shifting, but the torque fill by electric motor during shifting is very obvious.
Then then Polestar tuned Aisin 8AT shift faster than Aisin 6AT on Toyota/Lexus. I have not try more than 6AT on Toyota/Lexus.

Then Bezza 4AT and Vios CVT both whining more than Subaru/Nissan CVT. So I guess, whining is not only CVT and Hamilton exclusive. Well, it doesn't means they are louder than Subaru/Nissan if one measure the dB, but their frequency simply hit my nerve. Some time is not about the loudness, everyone sensitive to different pitch, someone else might have opposite opinion.

Of course hail the ZF 8AT. I haven't have chance to try the 2.0T Accord with 10AT. From my daily 8AT experience I think 10AT is a bit too much, but let's see. When I start traveling again, I will find chance to try.

Lastly eCVT that get most lore from me. But I think the culprit is the hybrid battery size is too small for Malaysia traffic, eCVT is just the scapegoat. The biggest problem is during long idle, the on and off engine high rev like 4000rpm to charge the battery is noisy and too intrusive. I think any Lexus with 450h should do fine with big engine and larger battery. No need to rev as hard to drive the generator. Haven't get the chance to drive one, would be interesting.

So while I can not give each a score, but I can sort of rank them base on my preference. You see while CVT is not my favorite, but they are around the middle pack.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Oct 21 2021, 09:32 PM
constant_weight
post Oct 21 2021, 09:38 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
856 posts

Joined: Jun 2017
QUOTE(dares @ Oct 21 2021, 08:41 PM)
No announcement from Perodua, I don't think he can even accept booking for the new Myvi.

This reminds me of those unscrupulous SAs who took X50 bookings long before it was launched, until Proton came out and say no they are not allowed to take booking for the car.
*
From my limited experience of buying new cars, each time I get my engine number and VIN assigned after the booking entered into the system and before the delivery.

That is my allocation when factory start assemble my car. No matter they got other car or not, that is the exact car I will get.

I think if one don't get the allocation, probably like you mentioned it is just dealership take the money first without actually booking the car in the system.
dares
post Oct 21 2021, 11:55 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
827 posts

Joined: Jul 2011
QUOTE(constant_weight @ Oct 21 2021, 09:11 PM)
So I guess, whining is not only CVT and Hamilton exclusive.
*
I saw what you did there brows.gif
leon898
post Oct 22 2021, 11:44 AM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
733 posts

Joined: Jul 2009


QUOTE(zero5177 @ Oct 21 2021, 07:12 PM)
People who praises the 4AT like its the ultimate creation are the people who can't accept newer technologies.

4AT never drives better than CVT, Proton's CVT jerks are just on low speed stop and go traffic, unless you are telling me your drive involve only speed of 0-20km/h 90% times then you might feel shit about it, but how bad is it? I would say still Miles better than when u sitting on someone inexperience driving MT car.

Plus the recent model even reviewers/ex Proton owner says the Jerk is almost not there even they attempted,
for a normal driver definitely can't tell anymore.

For car technology of course if you can wait, more tech will be added in the future with more new models. Problem is can you wait?
*
cvt is not a 'new tech'.
once you can accept that, we can discuss more on belt reliability.
blindmutedeaf
post Oct 22 2021, 12:42 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
257 posts

Joined: Sep 2016
From: Penang lo
for CVT, depending on where you drive it, highway or go/stop alot.

if go/stop alot, 4AT is better cause CVT start from time 0 a bit heavy
dares
post Oct 22 2021, 04:14 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
827 posts

Joined: Jul 2011
QUOTE(leon898 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:44 AM)
cvt is not a 'new tech'.
once you can accept that, we can discuss more on belt reliability.
*
Yes, the basis of CVT technology is not new, neither is the basis of the internal combustion engine.

While the rest of the world moving on with more and more advanced CVT technology that are being sold alongside the likes of 6AT/8AT/10AT/DCT and more, ppl here are still peddling their stagnant 4AT as current and modern while screaming CVT is unreliable old tech.
cyapd
post Oct 22 2021, 07:21 PM

Who am I?
******
Senior Member
1,489 posts

Joined: Mar 2011


I drove a car with cvt for 11 years had never encounter any problem on the gearbox till the day I’ve sold it. Not sure if that’s reliable 🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
constant_weight
post Oct 22 2021, 08:48 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
856 posts

Joined: Jun 2017
QUOTE(dares @ Oct 22 2021, 04:14 PM)
Yes, the basis of CVT technology is not new, neither is the basis of the internal combustion engine.

While the rest of the world moving on with more and more advanced CVT technology that are being sold alongside the likes of 6AT/8AT/10AT/DCT and more, ppl here are still peddling their stagnant 4AT as current and modern while screaming CVT is unreliable old tech.
*
With this, allow me to revise my favorite spreadsheet.

It worth to mention that these 7 speed+ transmissions, usually add more overdrive gears.

If you compare Elantra Sport vs Kia Rio, that have highest resemblance. At close to 1:1 ratio, their top speed at max rpm is very close. So excluding overdrive gears, the 7 DCT only have extra 1 gear vs 4AT. The rest are 3 OD vs 1 OD. If the car have not enough power to drive the high OD ratio (small number). Maybe just maybe, I trying to put on car manufacturer hat, no point to add more gears on the speed not designed for small city car, and illegal anyway. Indeed, the 4 AT after final drive multiplication, the effective 3.1194 top gear ratio is the shortest among all listed, is at clear disadvantage here.

Then, if you look at Civic CVT. It has the absolute widest gear ratio (look at the Final Drive columns after multiply with final drive ratio to see effective range). It far exceed even the Aisin 8AT and Honda 9AT at both bottom and top end. This is the magic of CVT, the efficiency for city drive is unbeatable with not shifting gap, it can have very aggressive gear ratio for fast acceleration.

I think one can hate CVT base on the personal driving feels, but it is illogical to deny its advantage.

user posted image

user posted image

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Oct 22 2021, 08:50 PM
TSjeffchuaa
post Oct 22 2021, 09:04 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
30 posts

Joined: Jun 2020


True, CVT is not as bad as all those 4AT preferred said, except for proton punch CVT, that's a different story, also I don't think that D-CVT will be a bad CVT since it's used in Toyota and Daihatsu themselves also.

QUOTE(JZenith @ Oct 21 2021, 06:55 PM)
CVT or not, it depends on you, majority of them says CVT is bad but thats what they SAY, not experience.
except for proton CVT old model, thats truly bad (iris,persona,saga).
there's a fact that you shouldn't hard pedal CVT as it runs with a belt and it will damage the gearbox overtime, but same goes with 4AT, they will break too but just not as fast as CVT.

also CVT service&maintenance is slightly complex and expensive than traditional 4AT but i dont think so it affects anything.

mayb you can testdrive ativa's CVT and compare to myvi on traffic jam,you'll notice the difference, some is ok with CVT and some doesnt.

by the way do you have a slight picture of myvi 2022? if it facelift like axia crossover or the new iris, personally im taking the 2021.
*
according to the autonews, the design will be referring to the myvi GT , not straight copy though, some of the design will be taken from Myvi GT, and why not straight produce Myvi GT shell for MYvi 2022 is because of the budget cost, Myvi GT design is claimed to be hand-produced so it is impractical to be use.
dares
post Oct 22 2021, 09:21 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
827 posts

Joined: Jul 2011
QUOTE(constant_weight @ Oct 22 2021, 08:48 PM)
I think one can hate CVT base on the personal driving feels, but it is illogical to deny its advantage.

*
Pretty much this.

Everybody, including myself occasionally, likes to pile on the hate against CVT, but the mechanical advantage is clear. For a daily beater not meant for the racetrack, it is simply the more economical and comfortable choice. Especially compared to a dinosaur 4AT.

Like I said, everybody thinks they are driving a sports car.

QUOTE(jeffchuaa @ Oct 22 2021, 09:04 PM)
True, CVT is not as bad as all those 4AT preferred said, except for proton punch CVT, that's a different story, also I don't think that D-CVT will be a bad CVT since it's used in Toyota and Daihatsu themselves also.
according to the autonews, the design will be referring to the myvi GT , not straight copy though, some of the design will be taken from Myvi GT, and why not straight produce Myvi GT shell for MYvi 2022 is because of the budget cost, Myvi GT design is claimed to be hand-produced so it is impractical to be use.
*
The Myvi GT is just the 3rd gen Myvi with fancy bodykit and rims. You can get the bodykit in accesories shop if you like it.

The Myvi being sold in Brunei also comes with this bodykit from the dealership. No such thing as being 'hand-produced'.

user posted image

This post has been edited by dares: Oct 22 2021, 09:22 PM
mrdokok
post Oct 22 2021, 09:30 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
219 posts

Joined: Oct 2015


QUOTE(constant_weight @ Oct 21 2021, 09:11 PM)
Old i-DSI City CVT is the worst example. I guess the bad reputation started that time. Rubber band effect is really strong, even lift of throttle car will get the elastic jolt.
I think today no matter how bad is the CVT, still by far 100x better than the CVT from i-DSI generation.

Before the Covid-19, I had a lot of business travel. So I tried different rental cars to experience them.

Nissan Altima 2.5s with 180hp+, the CVT is doing really great. No reason to take it over 4AT Camry or even 6AT Camry.
I would anytime take Kia Optima or Mazda 6 over Altima, then Altima over Camry/Sonata. They simply drive so much better overall, not specific to transmission.

Somehow Optima and Sonata at US are tuned very differently even from same model year, given both from Hyundai Motor Group. Optima get stiffer suspension, steering pointing really direct, whereas Sonata tuned similar to Camry. Haven't try TNGA Camry because Toyota doesn't support Android Auto/Apple Carplay that time, it is pain in the ass to navigate at places I'm not familiar.

Hyundai DCT, BMW FWD with DCT, I would take them over CVT. Normal person would not perceive the shifting, those are tuned for smooth comfort, very different from DSG. No jerk at all even at 5km/h slow traffic. Hyundai DCT would even shift to 2nd gear during low speed traffic jam crawl, so confirm clutch fully engage, not half open.

My current car has Aisin 8AT with 240nm 43hp crank integrated electric motor, with Polestar software tune. Shifting is milky smooth as the motor will fill in the torque during shifting power gap. I think even with this 8AT + electric motor combo, the DCT that are tuned for smoothness is just as seamless. Passenger would not perceive the different, I really don't know which one has the edge for passenger daily comfort.
Of course when floor the throttle, DCT is noticeable more direct and shift so much faster.

On regular drive, Mazda 6AT shift faster than the Polestar tuned Aisin 8AT. When pushed, I can't tell the speed different on shifting, but the torque fill by electric motor during shifting is very obvious.
Then then Polestar tuned Aisin 8AT shift faster than Aisin 6AT on Toyota/Lexus. I have not try more than 6AT on Toyota/Lexus.

Then Bezza 4AT and Vios CVT both whining more than Subaru/Nissan CVT. So I guess, whining is not only CVT and Hamilton exclusive. Well, it doesn't means they are louder than Subaru/Nissan if one measure the dB, but their frequency simply hit my nerve. Some time is not about the loudness, everyone sensitive to different pitch, someone else might have opposite opinion.

Of course hail the ZF 8AT. I haven't have chance to try the 2.0T Accord with 10AT. From my daily 8AT experience I think 10AT is a bit too much, but let's see. When I start traveling again, I will find chance to try.

Lastly eCVT that get most lore from me. But I think the culprit is the hybrid battery size is too small for Malaysia traffic, eCVT is just the scapegoat. The biggest problem is during long idle, the on and off engine high rev like 4000rpm to charge the battery is noisy and too intrusive. I think any Lexus with 450h should do fine with big engine and larger battery. No need to rev as hard to drive the generator. Haven't get the chance to drive one, would be interesting.

So while I can not give each a score, but I can sort of rank them base on my preference. You see while CVT is not my favorite, but they are around the middle pack.
*
idsi cvt got bad reputation when honda write atf oli on stick while it should use cvtf oil..early production

This post has been edited by mrdokok: Oct 22 2021, 09:31 PM
TSjeffchuaa
post Oct 24 2021, 02:19 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
30 posts

Joined: Jun 2020


Looks like it might be true that there will be a minor price increase with the price according to autonews since the changes of the gearbox to D-CVT
leon898
post Oct 25 2021, 08:53 AM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
733 posts

Joined: Jul 2009


QUOTE(dares @ Oct 22 2021, 04:14 PM)
Yes, the basis of CVT technology is not new, neither is the basis of the internal combustion engine.

While the rest of the world moving on with more and more advanced CVT technology that are being sold alongside the likes of 6AT/8AT/10AT/DCT and more, ppl here are still peddling their stagnant 4AT as current and modern while screaming CVT is unreliable old tech.
*
I was replying from this context

QUOTE(zero5177 @ Oct 21 2021, 07:12 PM)
People who praises the 4AT like its the ultimate creation are the people who can't accept newer technologies.

*
The best word is...if it ain't broken don't fix it. It is not wrong to use 4AT. works like a charm. Let the upper tier tried it first and complaint.
zero5177
post Oct 25 2021, 10:47 AM

Sixth Sense Unlocked
******
Senior Member
1,357 posts

Joined: May 2010
From: In your liver
QUOTE(leon898 @ Oct 25 2021, 08:53 AM)
I was replying from this context
The best word is...if it ain't broken don't fix it. It is not wrong to use 4AT. works like a charm. Let the upper tier tried it first and complaint.
*
Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying the technology of CVT being discovered is something new, but CVT comes a long way to where it is now the newer tech for GB compared to 4AT in term of fuel efficiency and smooth gear shifting.

4AT is not Unbreakable as well and I have heard a number of it, the true bulletproof GB is Manual Transmission with Cable Clutch.

Reason why manufacturer moving from 4AT is not because it is not broken, but it can be better.


leon898
post Oct 25 2021, 12:00 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
733 posts

Joined: Jul 2009


QUOTE(zero5177 @ Oct 25 2021, 10:47 AM)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying the technology of CVT being discovered is something new, but CVT comes a long way to where it is now the newer tech for GB compared to 4AT in term of fuel efficiency and smooth gear shifting.

4AT is not Unbreakable as well and I have heard a number of it, the true bulletproof GB is Manual Transmission with Cable Clutch.

Reason why manufacturer moving from 4AT is not because it is not broken, but it can be better.
*
My comment was based on your earlier written comment. Plain simple and nothing can be changed.

did I said 'broken' literally?
zero5177
post Oct 25 2021, 12:52 PM

Sixth Sense Unlocked
******
Senior Member
1,357 posts

Joined: May 2010
From: In your liver
QUOTE(leon898 @ Oct 25 2021, 12:00 PM)
My comment was based on your earlier written comment. Plain simple and nothing can be changed.

did I said 'broken' literally?
*
Not sure what message you're trying to deliver here keep nitpicking what I said, if you think 4AT is the ultimate creation you can choose to believe that as long that convinced you.

The message I try to deliver is CVT is the new direction for standard car GB, 4AT will slowly phase out just like the MT regardless how reliable are they.

Just like when touchscreen phone were introduced everyone criticized how fragile are they, but look at the market today, there's a lot technologies and efforts put on these used to be fragile screen, the same will happen with CVT, older CVT have their problems, newer ones are generally better or could even outlast 4AT if used accordingly.
leon898
post Oct 25 2021, 01:51 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
733 posts

Joined: Jul 2009


QUOTE(zero5177 @ Oct 25 2021, 12:52 PM)
Not sure what message you're trying to deliver here keep nitpicking what I said, if you think 4AT is the ultimate creation you can choose to believe that as long that convinced you.

The message I try to deliver is CVT is the new direction for standard car GB, 4AT will slowly phase out just like the MT regardless how reliable are they.

Just like when touchscreen phone were introduced everyone criticized how fragile are they, but look at the market today, there's a lot technologies and efforts put on these used to be fragile screen, the same will happen with CVT, older CVT have their problems, newer ones are generally better or could even outlast 4AT if used accordingly.
*
Well, you are the one praised the CVT as 'newer' in your last comment. It is not new and most of the vendor opted for it due to simplicity (profit margin?) and it can bring down the FC.

But, not new. and not so reliable too.

Before we went further, we are talking about myvi, a simple point A to point B car, which needs to be reliable.

5 Pages < 1 2 3 4 > » Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0230sec    0.30    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 08:25 PM